Okay, I'm trying to figure out what all those gangsta rap guys (ala Ice
Cube, Snoop, Brotha Lynch) used to get the high pitched sine-wave sound in
songs such as "Murder Was The Case," "Ghetto Bird" and even the low
farty-sounding sine-bass on classics such as "Deez Nuts"....at first I
thought it was probably just a simple signal generator with a few envelopes,
but could it also be a theremin or even a onde martinot for the high stuff?
What about the bass?

Thanks a ton!!

--

Jonny Durango

"Patrick was a saint. I ain't."

http://www.jdurango.com

On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 23:23:36 GMT, "Jonny Durango"
wrote:

...at first I
thought it was probably just a simple signal generator with a few envelopes,
but could it also be a theremin or even a onde martinot for the high stuff? snip

Either would take some brains to run, and these rap-crap clowns have
IQs lower than that of both my dogs, so that's out.

What about the bass? snip

Who cares? It's CRAP!

dB

Mini Moog or Studio Electronics SE-1

Rail
--
Recording Engineer/Software Developer
Rail Jon Rogut Software
http://www.railjonrogut.com


"Jonny Durango" wrote in message
news:YLMsd.141693$V41.48730@attbi_s52...
Okay, I'm trying to figure out what all those gangsta rap guys (ala Ice
Cube, Snoop, Brotha Lynch) used to get the high pitched sine-wave sound in
songs such as "Murder Was The Case," "Ghetto Bird" and even the low
farty-sounding sine-bass on classics such as "Deez Nuts"....at first I
thought it was probably just a simple signal generator with a few
envelopes,
but could it also be a theremin or even a onde martinot for the high
stuff?
What about the bass?

Thanks a ton!!

--

Jonny Durango

"Patrick was a saint. I ain't."

http://www.jdurango.com

Roland TB 303?
Minimoog?

"DeserTBoB" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 23:23:36 GMT, "Jonny Durango"
wrote:

...at first I
thought it was probably just a simple signal generator with a few
envelopes,
but could it also be a theremin or even a onde martinot for the high
stuff? snip

Either would take some brains to run, and these rap-crap clowns have
IQs lower than that of both my dogs, so that's out.

What about the bass? snip

Who cares? It's CRAP!

dB

Aww man... are you that old?

Seriously, there's good and and bad in all musical genres. To say there's
no talent in the production of hip hop is really silly. I know a couple of
very talented, very creative hip hop DJs and producers. A few of them are
very good musicians to boot... one I can guarantee can outplay 80% of geetar
players.

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 04:12:18 GMT, "Particle Salad"
wrote:

Who cares? It's CRAP!

dB

Aww man... are you that old? snip

Sometimes, not often, age is a benefit. The years of education and
experience give you better authority and knowledge with which to know
when to call a **** sandwich a **** sandwich!

dB

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 00:50:45 -0800, DeserTBoB
wrote:

Sometimes, not often, age is a benefit. The years of education and
experience give you better authority and knowledge with which to know
when to call a **** sandwich a **** sandwich!

A **** sandwich is easier to eat with more bread round it. If
people want to throw bread at rap music, I'll have some of it and
learn the tricks.

That sine wave is probably a simple analogue synth. Doubtless
whichever one is currently considered the height of retro-coolness.
Is that still the MiniMoog?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

DeserTBoB wrote:
On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 23:23:36 GMT, "Jonny Durango"
wrote:

...at first I
thought it was probably just a simple signal generator with a few envelopes,
but could it also be a theremin or even a onde martinot for the high stuff? snip

Either would take some brains to run, and these rap-crap clowns have
IQs lower than that of both my dogs, so that's out.

What about the bass? snip

Who cares? It's CRAP!

But it could be extremely lucrative crap.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Seriously, there's good and and bad in all musical genres. To say there's
no talent in the production of hip hop is really silly. I know a couple
of
---snip---

Hip hop is a "musical" genre? Music implies there's a melody present.
Sure, there's talent... from the orignal recording way back when that's been
nonchalantly resampled.

Let's leave music for a minute (wait, that's never happened on this
group...).

Assuming we all know where this stuff comes from, let's simplify;

Oil comes from somewhere.
Pigment comes from somewhere.
Horsehair (or whatever interchangeable material you want) comes from
somewhere.
Canvas comes from somewhere.
etc.

It takes an artist to assemble these elements into something else.
Say....art.

There is good art, there is bad art. Not everyone who paints is an artist.

OK, back to music;

Hip Hop is musical. There is music and melody involved, wherever it may come
from.
It's not C & W or Rock or Pop so it needs it own label...hmmmm...lets call
it a Genre.
It takes an artist to assemble the elements into something else.
There is good Hip Hop, there is bad Hip Hop. Not everyone who creates Hip
Hop (or any other genre for that matter) is an artist.

I've heard "good" Hip Hop, and I've heard "bad" Hip Hop. I can say the same
for any other style of music.

For the record, most of what I've heard lately is at least as melodic as
have the tunes on popular radio. Groups like "The Black Eyed Peas", even
though they are what I like to call "Hip Hop for Backpackers", are very
melodic and use less sampling and more real players than most others. Then
you have groups like The Roots. They're definitely Hip Hop but they play
everything themselves.

It's really unfair to consider everyone in any category under one
generalization.

m.
--


mikerekka at hotmail dot com hates spam


"G Glass" wrote in message
newsojtd.206577$hj.197761@fed1read07...
Seriously, there's good and and bad in all musical genres. To say
there's
no talent in the production of hip hop is really silly. I know a couple
of
---snip---

Hip hop is a "musical" genre? Music implies there's a melody present.
Sure, there's talent... from the orignal recording way back when that's
been
nonchalantly resampled.

I really like it when Eminem projectile vomits on Michael Jackson.

In article , KyleSong
wrote:

Roland TB 303?
Minimoog?


Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

ScotFraser wrote:
Hip hop is a "musical" genre? Music implies there's a melody present.
BRBR

African drumming has no melody, yet must be considered music.

What about the stuff they play on Hearts of Space?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 7 Dec 2004 12:04:30 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

ScotFraser wrote:
Hip hop is a "musical" genre? Music implies there's a melody present.
BRBR

African drumming has no melody, yet must be considered music.

What about the stuff they play on Hearts of Space?

Are you saying that stuff has no beat?

--scott

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

"G Glass" wrote in message
newsojtd.206577$hj.197761@fed1read07...
Seriously, there's good and and bad in all musical genres. To say
there's
no talent in the production of hip hop is really silly. I know a couple
of
---snip---

Hip hop is a "musical" genre? Music implies there's a melody present.
Sure, there's talent... from the orignal recording way back when that's
been
nonchalantly resampled.


This line of argument is *so* tired.

-jw

ScotFraser wrote:

Hip hop is a "musical" genre? Music implies there's a melody present.
BRBR

African drumming has no melody, yet must be considered music.
Scott Fraser

Thank you, sir. You are right.

--
ha

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 00:31:35 +0000, Rail Jon Rogut wrote:

Mini Moog or Studio Electronics SE-1

Rail

I find the SE-1 to have a rather soft attack and flabby sound compared to
a minimoog for bass, or even compared to some moog like soft synths I've
used. Still, it seems very popular for hip hop...

For the high pitched stuff, try something Roland like an sh1000, Sh09 or
sh101. Their oscs+filters have a clear cutting sound that my SE-1 won't
do. Roland Alpha Junos are real cheap and even sharper too.

geek wrote:

Oil comes from somewhere.
Pigment comes from somewhere.
Horsehair (or whatever interchangeable material you want) comes from
somewhere.
Canvas comes from somewhere.
etc.

It takes an artist to assemble these elements into something else.
Say....art.

Assembly is not art. Creation is art. Even when I was 8 years old, and
made a collage from magazine clippings in art class, even then, I knew
that wasn't art. The materials above are not art. The *creation* of an
experience from the above raw materials, using both skills of
application, and specific presentations of ideas or concepts that did
NOT previously exist, is art.

Hip Hop is musical. There is music and melody involved, wherever it
may come
from.
It's not C & W or Rock or Pop so it needs it own label...hmmmm...lets
call
it a Genre.
It takes an artist to assemble the elements into something else.

Wrong. Factory workers assemble. Artists create. Building a guitar from
a kit doesn't make me Eric Clapton, nor an artist.

There is good Hip Hop, there is bad Hip Hop. Not everyone who creates
Hip
Hop (or any other genre for that matter) is an artist.

Absolutely true for reasons stated above.

I've heard "good" Hip Hop, and I've heard "bad" Hip Hop. I can say
the same
for any other style of music.

For the record, most of what I've heard lately is at least as melodic
as
have the tunes on popular radio.

Lately, perhaps. Most earlier rap, not.

Groups like "The Black Eyed Peas", even
though they are what I like to call "Hip Hop for Backpackers", are
very
melodic and use less sampling and more real players than most others.
Then
you have groups like The Roots. They're definitely Hip Hop but they
play
everything themselves.

They are at least musicians, and artists, if they have created
something that began in their mind. I like them both.


It's really unfair to consider everyone in any category under one
generalization.

m.

To lump creators into the same category as assemblers is also unfair.
I'm sick of "Look-mommy-I-made-a-poopy" assemblers claiming to be
artists. It takes a lot more to create a song from scratch (from your
mind alone), writing all words and melodies (from your mind alone),
then writing all parts/arrangements (NOT picking from a sample loop
library or pre-packaged sections) from your mind alone. Paint-by-number
is NOT art. Has nothing to do with genre.
Mikey Wozniak
Nova Music Productions
This sig is (bad) haiku

On 7 Dec 2004 13:16:02 -0800, wrote:

Assembly is not art. Creation is art. Even when I was 8 years old, and
made a collage from magazine clippings in art class, even then, I knew
that wasn't art.

A collage in the hand of a great artist, is art. Some rap records are
great records, period. But just like everything else 90% of what is
out there is crap.

Al

"play-on" wrote:
On 7 Dec 2004 13:16:02 -0800, wrote:

Assembly is not art. Creation is art. Even when I was 8 years old, and
made a collage from magazine clippings in art class, even then, I knew
that wasn't art.

A collage in the hand of a great artist, is art. Some rap records are
great records, period. But just like everything else 90% of what is
out there is crap.

The whole argument about "what is art?" in the context of popular culture
work is sort of silly. It's even more silly when it's defined in terms of
whether it's appealing to the viewer/listener or even hard to do or not.

Some people flat out don't like hip hop or rap, which is fine, but want to
disqualify it on the basis of process, which is probably ill-considered,
given everything else you'd all have to disqualify on that basis.

-jw

John Washburn wrote:
"play-on" wrote:
On 7 Dec 2004 13:16:02 -0800, wrote:

Assembly is not art. Creation is art. Even when I was 8 years old, and
made a collage from magazine clippings in art class, even then, I knew
that wasn't art.

A collage in the hand of a great artist, is art. Some rap records are
great records, period. But just like everything else 90% of what is
out there is crap.

The whole argument about "what is art?" in the context of popular culture
work is sort of silly. It's even more silly when it's defined in terms of
whether it's appealing to the viewer/listener or even hard to do or not.

Some people flat out don't like hip hop or rap, which is fine, but want to
disqualify it on the basis of process, which is probably ill-considered,
given everything else you'd all have to disqualify on that basis.

I have heard acoustic rap. And I didn't like it any more than I like
most rap.

I have also heard jazz made by rap guys with samples and turntables (and
Eight Ball Records used to have a couple guys that did this), and it was
art. It wasn't Art Blakey, but it was art.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Assembly is not art. BRBR

I think you'd get an argument from Marcel Duchamp on that.
I'd say "context is art", but actually the whole discussion of what is or is
not art is one which leads not to edification.

Scott Fraser

ScotFraser wrote:
What about the stuff they play on Hearts of Space? BRBR

Hmm, no melody, no rhythm, no harmonic development. What is that
stuff? The
Krispy Kreme of audio?

Scott Fraser

Strangely enough, tho much of HOS material has little of the above, I
like HOS, simply because they seem to have a great knack for taking the
absolute best of new age stuff - well engineered & produced, for the
most part. It sure does have the intended peace-of-mind effect.

I do hear rhythm in much of it, altho it may be a very slow, subtle
rhythm - perhaps unnoticeable to headbangers used to 160 bpm jungle. It
reminds me of the fact that glass is actually a liquid - it just flows
too slow for us to notice.

Harmonic development is present in much of new age, too. I'd even go as
far as to say that harmonic development is the backbone of much New Age
music. Subtle sometimes, but there.

I've been listening to Sheila Chandra lately (Narada label, early
90's), and if that ain't music and art, I ain't breathin'. It's really
world music as opposed to new age, tho.

BTW, most E. Indian music is great for lovemaking, IMO, as is "Warm My
Heart" by Aaron Neville. Just be sure you finish before he gets to "Ave
Maria" or it'll be a real wood-kill.

Scott, anything happening on "Sun Rings" yet?
Mikey Wozniak
Nova Music Productions
this sig is haiku

G Glass wrote:
Seriously, there's good and and bad in all musical genres. To say
there's
no talent in the production of hip hop is really silly. I know a
couple
of
---snip---

Hip hop is a "musical" genre? Music implies there's a melody
present.

Bzzt! False premise. Music implies no such thing.

wrote:
Assembly is not art. Creation is art. Even when I was 8 years old,
and
made a collage from magazine clippings in art class, even then, I
knew
that wasn't art.

I'm afraid you were mistaken.

In article . com,
wrote:

wrote:
Assembly is not art. Creation is art. Even when I was 8 years old,
and
made a collage from magazine clippings in art class, even then, I
knew
that wasn't art.

I'm afraid you were mistaken.


Look at the collage Fillmore posters by David Singer and tell me that isn't art.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x

wrote in message
ups.com...


I'm sticking to my guns. Assembly of pre-existing components, by
itself, is not art.


I see what you are saying (and partly agree) but it does take talent to make
a compelling composition out of those pre-existing elements. If you don't
believe it, try it.

On 8 Dec 2004 14:03:29 -0800, wrote:

Assembly of pre-existing components, by
itself, is not art.

Unless it's done by an artist, and then it is.

Checkmate

Al

Checkmate, my ass. Just because someone "is" an "artist" is no
guarantee of anything. I "am" a "songwriter" and a "recording artist"
as well as an engineer and producer. Does that mean that my morning
excretion is art to you? Can I send you some for review? You pay for
shipping. Paypal accepted.

Mikey Wozniak
Nova Music Productions
this sig is haiku

keeping standards high, even when others don't...

wrote:
G Glass wrote:
Seriously, there's good and and bad in all musical genres. To
say
there's
no talent in the production of hip hop is really silly. I know a
couple
of
---snip---

Hip hop is a "musical" genre? Music implies there's a melody
present.

Bzzt! False premise. Music implies no such thing.

Only in the sense that it can be copyrighted as a "Musical Composition"
as defined by U.S. Copyright law. In the absence of either melody or
lyrics it's just a recording of instruments and/or voices.
I would therefore assume that rap/hip/hop is copyrighted on the
'lyrics' alone. Or am I missing something ?

RD

Try some decaf...

Al

On 8 Dec 2004 21:26:45 -0800, wrote:

Checkmate, my ass. Just because someone "is" an "artist" is no
guarantee of anything. I "am" a "songwriter" and a "recording artist"
as well as an engineer and producer. Does that mean that my morning
excretion is art to you? Can I send you some for review? You pay for
shipping. Paypal accepted.

Mikey Wozniak
Nova Music Productions
this sig is haiku

keeping standards high, even when others don't...

Rap artists are true musicians as they express themselves and connect to
people like artists from any genre. They just use the tools that were around
them like any other artist.

Some people get it, some don't.


--

-Hev
find me he
www.michaelSCREWspringerROBOTS.com

In article . com,
wrote:

[snip]


Note to Jay kadis: I respect you and enjoy your posts. Unlike
above, I'll withold judgement until I see the end
result. Got a link?


http://www.davidsinger.com

Unfortuntely he doesn't display the older Fillmore posters including my favorite
of Jesus on the Calvary of junked cars, but he does have a couple of collages on
line.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x

Strangely enough, tho much of HOS material has little of the above, I
like HOS, simply because they seem to have a great knack for taking the
absolute best of new age stuff - well engineered & produced, for the
most part. It sure does have the intended peace-of-mind effect.

Well, I like HOS just fine (though I never hear it here in LA) because I have
some co-writing credits with a friend who gets some serious play on HOS. Small,
yet insignificant royalties have ensued.

Harmonic development is present in much of new age, too. I'd even go as
far as to say that harmonic development is the backbone of much New Age
music. Subtle sometimes, but there.

An awful lot of it is just diatonic noodling, though, with some very consonant
(if any) chord changes. My major beef with new age is that they seem to have an
abiding fear of dissonance, altered chord voicings or distant intervallic
leaps. As Harold Budd said "There's no evil there," & that's where the interest
resides, for me at least, in having an element of tension.

I've been listening to Sheila Chandra lately (Narada label, early
90's), and if that ain't music and art, I ain't breathin'. It's really
world music as opposed to new age, tho.

Yeah, she's a lot more interesting than most new age. I think it's because she
comes from a deep native tradition, although I think a lot of her stuff has
gotten too pop. Hey, whatever sells, & she deserves the success she has.


Scott, anything happening on "Sun Rings" yet?

We mixed a set of excerpts, maybe 2 or 3 minutes from each movement, a few
months ago. Haven't heard back about doing full length versions, or if the
video guys have synced it all up yet. I guess it's back off the front burner
again. I'll send you a CD of the mixes I have.
Scott Fraser

ScotFraser wrote:

Small,
yet insignificant royalties have ensued.

Funny! Reminds me of the bad restaurant - expensive, the service is
bad, and the food is too, but at least they don't give you much.

Harmonic development is present in much of new age, too. I'd even
go as
far as to say that harmonic development is the backbone of much New
Age
music. Subtle sometimes, but there.

An awful lot of it is just diatonic noodling, though, with some very
consonant
(if any) chord changes. My major beef with new age is that they seem
to have an
abiding fear of dissonance, altered chord voicings or distant
intervallic
leaps. As Harold Budd said "There's no evil there," & that's where
the interest
resides, for me at least, in having an element of tension.

Yeah, new age is all about consonance, consonance, consonance. No
tension, because that is the purpose of the music - especially the
early 70's stuff. It's all about soothing the savage beast, and the HOS
stuff does a good job. I think you can get HOS streamed online, no?

I always tell my songwriting students to mix it up with chords &
melody. Bring in the ii, iii, vi, and mutated I,IV,V chords. Send the
melody into the unexpected. Twist things. That's where the secrets are.

Scott, anything happening on "Sun Rings" yet?

We mixed a set of excerpts, maybe 2 or 3 minutes from each movement,
a few
months ago. Haven't heard back about doing full length versions, or
if the
video guys have synced it all up yet. I guess it's back off the front
burner
again. I'll send you a CD of the mixes I have.
Scott Fraser

Cool. The wheels grind slow sometimes... I'm just now getting time to
do my own pop/rock stuff for the 1st time in about 10 years.
Mikey Wozniak
Nova Music Productions
this sig is haiku

"Paul Winkler" wrote:

thoughtful post snipped

Exhibit B: did you know that there were riots at the premier
of Stravinsky's "The Rite of Spring"?
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stravinksy:
"The music of Le Sacre du Printemps baffles verbal description. To say
that much of it is hideous as sound is a mild description. There is
certainly an impelling rhythm traceable. Practically it has no relation
to music at all as most of us understand the word." Musical Times,
London, August 1, 1913 (Slonimsky, 1953)

This was apparently the majority opinion at the time.
You'd be hard-pressed to find a classical musician or composer today
who still holds that view.

Agreed on almost all points. To be fair, though, a lot of what got people
worked up enough to riot at the premier was Nijinsky's choreography which,
aside from being as anti-classical as the music, also had a lot of nudity
and sexuality.

-jw

philicorda wrote:

For the high pitched stuff, try something Roland like an sh1000, Sh09 or
sh101. Their oscs+filters have a clear cutting sound that my SE-1 won't
do. Roland Alpha Junos are real cheap and even sharper too.

This is a good call.