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#1
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Question about copyrighting songs before they are published...
This question must get asked a lot - and I apologize if it's in any sort of
FAQ I haven't seen - but how does an unpublished Canadian artist copyright songs before putting them online or sending out demos... other than the traditional registered timestamped snail-mail method? Is there a "copyright office" that keeps a record of songs? Especially now that they can easily be kept digitally via mp3 and don't take up any physical space. Calls to Canada Copyrights didn't lead to anything tangible, and I'm waiting to hear back from the SOCAN. Thanks for any information you can provide. |
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#2
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There is some information on SOCAN's website about copyright he
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/c...gd_main-e.html The "poor man's copyright" debate has been argued to death in this newsgroup...personally, I wouldn't think of it as much protection, but that's just my take. Also, copyright in Canada does not protect anything more than the title, whereas a US copyright protects the melody and lyrics, so you might consider investing in that if you feel you have to. Practically speaking, however, even most pro songwriters do not copyright a song until they are fairly sure that it will be published or recorded. Most novice songwriters are often more worried than they should be :-) -- IJ http://www.irenejackson.com http://www.irenejackson.com/tips.html "Jon J. Yeager" wrote in message . .. This question must get asked a lot - and I apologize if it's in any sort of FAQ I haven't seen - but how does an unpublished Canadian artist copyright songs before putting them online or sending out demos... other than the traditional registered timestamped snail-mail method? Is there a "copyright office" that keeps a record of songs? Especially now that they can easily be kept digitally via mp3 and don't take up any physical space. Calls to Canada Copyrights didn't lead to anything tangible, and I'm waiting to hear back from the SOCAN. Thanks for any information you can provide. |
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#3
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There is some information on SOCAN's website about copyright he
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/c...gd_main-e.html The "poor man's copyright" debate has been argued to death in this newsgroup...personally, I wouldn't think of it as much protection, but that's just my take. Also, copyright in Canada does not protect anything more than the title, whereas a US copyright protects the melody and lyrics, so you might consider investing in that if you feel you have to. Practically speaking, however, even most pro songwriters do not copyright a song until they are fairly sure that it will be published or recorded. Most novice songwriters are often more worried than they should be :-) -- IJ http://www.irenejackson.com http://www.irenejackson.com/tips.html "Jon J. Yeager" wrote in message . .. This question must get asked a lot - and I apologize if it's in any sort of FAQ I haven't seen - but how does an unpublished Canadian artist copyright songs before putting them online or sending out demos... other than the traditional registered timestamped snail-mail method? Is there a "copyright office" that keeps a record of songs? Especially now that they can easily be kept digitally via mp3 and don't take up any physical space. Calls to Canada Copyrights didn't lead to anything tangible, and I'm waiting to hear back from the SOCAN. Thanks for any information you can provide. |
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#4
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In Canada is the very interesting online copyrightdepot.com where people of all over the world can do a deposit of 10 MB for only 9 euro! http://www.copyrightdepot.com/ Vivian ----------- http://www.soundclick.com/Vivien "Jon J. Yeager" wrote: This question must get asked a lot - and I apologize if it's in any sort of FAQ I haven't seen - but how does an unpublished Canadian artist copyright songs before putting them online or sending out demos... other than the traditional registered timestamped snail-mail method? Is there a "copyright office" that keeps a record of songs? Especially now that they can easily be kept digitally via mp3 and don't take up any physical space. Calls to Canada Copyrights didn't lead to anything tangible, and I'm waiting to hear back from the SOCAN. Thanks for any information you can provide. |
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#5
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In Canada is the very interesting online copyrightdepot.com where people of all over the world can do a deposit of 10 MB for only 9 euro! http://www.copyrightdepot.com/ Vivian ----------- http://www.soundclick.com/Vivien "Jon J. Yeager" wrote: This question must get asked a lot - and I apologize if it's in any sort of FAQ I haven't seen - but how does an unpublished Canadian artist copyright songs before putting them online or sending out demos... other than the traditional registered timestamped snail-mail method? Is there a "copyright office" that keeps a record of songs? Especially now that they can easily be kept digitally via mp3 and don't take up any physical space. Calls to Canada Copyrights didn't lead to anything tangible, and I'm waiting to hear back from the SOCAN. Thanks for any information you can provide. |
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#6
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English URL http://www.copyrightdeposit.com/ The link to the English page was in the French's page upper left corner. Vivian rick hollett wrote: Great! Is there an English equivalant? "Viviane Beullens" wrote in message ... In Canada is the very interesting online copyrightdepot.com where people of all over the world can do a deposit of 10 MB for only 9 euro! http://www.copyrightdepot.com/ Vivian ----------- http://www.soundclick.com/Vivien "Jon J. Yeager" wrote: This question must get asked a lot - and I apologize if it's in any sort of FAQ I haven't seen - but how does an unpublished Canadian artist copyright songs before putting them online or sending out demos... other than the traditional registered timestamped snail-mail method? Is there a "copyright office" that keeps a record of songs? Especially now that they can easily be kept digitally via mp3 and don't take up any physical space. Calls to Canada Copyrights didn't lead to anything tangible, and I'm waiting to hear back from the SOCAN. Thanks for any information you can provide. |
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#7
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English URL http://www.copyrightdeposit.com/ The link to the English page was in the French's page upper left corner. Vivian rick hollett wrote: Great! Is there an English equivalant? "Viviane Beullens" wrote in message ... In Canada is the very interesting online copyrightdepot.com where people of all over the world can do a deposit of 10 MB for only 9 euro! http://www.copyrightdepot.com/ Vivian ----------- http://www.soundclick.com/Vivien "Jon J. Yeager" wrote: This question must get asked a lot - and I apologize if it's in any sort of FAQ I haven't seen - but how does an unpublished Canadian artist copyright songs before putting them online or sending out demos... other than the traditional registered timestamped snail-mail method? Is there a "copyright office" that keeps a record of songs? Especially now that they can easily be kept digitally via mp3 and don't take up any physical space. Calls to Canada Copyrights didn't lead to anything tangible, and I'm waiting to hear back from the SOCAN. Thanks for any information you can provide. |
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#8
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:51:25 GMT, "Irene Jackson"
wrote: There is some information on SOCAN's website about copyright he http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/c...gd_main-e.html The "poor man's copyright" debate has been argued to death in this newsgroup...personally, I wouldn't think of it as much protection, but that's just my take. Also, copyright in Canada does not protect anything more than the title, Why do you hold this opinion? whereas a US copyright protects the melody and lyrics, so you might consider investing in that if you feel you have to. Practically speaking, however, even most pro songwriters do not copyright a song until they are fairly sure that it will be published or recorded. Most novice songwriters are often more worried than they should be :-) from http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/c...html#section08 When you create a work or other subject-matter protected by copyright, you will automatically have copyright protection provided that, at the time of creation, you we A a Canadian citizen or a person ordinarily resident in Canada; B a citizen or subject of, or a person ordinarily resident in, a Berne Convention country, a Universal Copyright Convention country, a Rome Convention country (for sound recordings, performer's performances and communication signals only), or a country that is a member of the World Trade Organization (WTO) country; or C a citizen or subject of, or a person ordinarily resident in, any country to which the Minister has extended protection by notice in the Canada Gazette. In some cases, you would also obtain automatic copyright if your work was first published in one of the countries included among those who have signed the Berne, Universal Copyright or Rome Conventions or the WTO agreement, even if you were not a citizen or subject of Canada, or of one of those countries. In short, virtually everyone living in Canada can enjoy the benefits of automatic copyright protection. In addition, Canadians are protected in most foreign countries since most belong to one or more of the international treaties—the Berne Convention or the Universal Copyright Convention, the Rome Convention or are members of the World Trade Organization. Citizens of countries which are members of those conventions enjoy the benefits of Canadian copyright law in Canada. Canada also extends protection to certain non-member countries by way of notice in the Canada Gazette. Sound recordings themselves are protected internationally under the Rome Convention and under the copyright treaties, but there is quite a variation internationally as to the nature of the protection given to sound recordings. In Canada, sound recordings enjoy a broad range of protection under the Copyright Act. |
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#9
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:51:25 GMT, "Irene Jackson"
wrote: There is some information on SOCAN's website about copyright he http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/c...gd_main-e.html The "poor man's copyright" debate has been argued to death in this newsgroup...personally, I wouldn't think of it as much protection, but that's just my take. Also, copyright in Canada does not protect anything more than the title, Why do you hold this opinion? whereas a US copyright protects the melody and lyrics, so you might consider investing in that if you feel you have to. Practically speaking, however, even most pro songwriters do not copyright a song until they are fairly sure that it will be published or recorded. Most novice songwriters are often more worried than they should be :-) from http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/c...html#section08 When you create a work or other subject-matter protected by copyright, you will automatically have copyright protection provided that, at the time of creation, you we A a Canadian citizen or a person ordinarily resident in Canada; B a citizen or subject of, or a person ordinarily resident in, a Berne Convention country, a Universal Copyright Convention country, a Rome Convention country (for sound recordings, performer's performances and communication signals only), or a country that is a member of the World Trade Organization (WTO) country; or C a citizen or subject of, or a person ordinarily resident in, any country to which the Minister has extended protection by notice in the Canada Gazette. In some cases, you would also obtain automatic copyright if your work was first published in one of the countries included among those who have signed the Berne, Universal Copyright or Rome Conventions or the WTO agreement, even if you were not a citizen or subject of Canada, or of one of those countries. In short, virtually everyone living in Canada can enjoy the benefits of automatic copyright protection. In addition, Canadians are protected in most foreign countries since most belong to one or more of the international treaties—the Berne Convention or the Universal Copyright Convention, the Rome Convention or are members of the World Trade Organization. Citizens of countries which are members of those conventions enjoy the benefits of Canadian copyright law in Canada. Canada also extends protection to certain non-member countries by way of notice in the Canada Gazette. Sound recordings themselves are protected internationally under the Rome Convention and under the copyright treaties, but there is quite a variation internationally as to the nature of the protection given to sound recordings. In Canada, sound recordings enjoy a broad range of protection under the Copyright Act. |
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#10
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"Irene Jackson" wrote in message
news:1xMod.308533$Pl.115930@pd7tw1no... There is some information on SOCAN's website about copyright he http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/c...gd_main-e.html The "poor man's copyright" debate has been argued to death in this newsgroup...personally, I wouldn't think of it as much protection, but that's just my take. Also, copyright in Canada does not protect anything more than the title, whereas a US copyright protects the melody and lyrics, so you might consider investing in that if you feel you have to. I do. How much is it, and is it accessible to non-US citizens? |
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#11
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"Irene Jackson" wrote in message
news:1xMod.308533$Pl.115930@pd7tw1no... There is some information on SOCAN's website about copyright he http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/c...gd_main-e.html The "poor man's copyright" debate has been argued to death in this newsgroup...personally, I wouldn't think of it as much protection, but that's just my take. Also, copyright in Canada does not protect anything more than the title, whereas a US copyright protects the melody and lyrics, so you might consider investing in that if you feel you have to. I do. How much is it, and is it accessible to non-US citizens? |
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#12
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"Jon J. Yeager" wrote in message
. .. "Irene Jackson" wrote in message news:1xMod.308533$Pl.115930@pd7tw1no... There is some information on SOCAN's website about copyright he http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/c...gd_main-e.html The "poor man's copyright" debate has been argued to death in this newsgroup...personally, I wouldn't think of it as much protection, but that's just my take. Also, copyright in Canada does not protect anything more than the title, whereas a US copyright protects the melody and lyrics, so you might consider investing in that if you feel you have to. I do. How much is it, and is it accessible to non-US citizens? $30US and yes anyone can file for a US copyright. You'll need the short form PA he http://www.copyright.gov/forms/ IJ |
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#13
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"Jon J. Yeager" wrote in message
. .. "Irene Jackson" wrote in message news:1xMod.308533$Pl.115930@pd7tw1no... There is some information on SOCAN's website about copyright he http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/c...gd_main-e.html The "poor man's copyright" debate has been argued to death in this newsgroup...personally, I wouldn't think of it as much protection, but that's just my take. Also, copyright in Canada does not protect anything more than the title, whereas a US copyright protects the melody and lyrics, so you might consider investing in that if you feel you have to. I do. How much is it, and is it accessible to non-US citizens? $30US and yes anyone can file for a US copyright. You'll need the short form PA he http://www.copyright.gov/forms/ IJ |
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#14
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"Viviane Beullens" wrote in message
... In Canada is the very interesting online copyrightdepot.com where people of all over the world can do a deposit of 10 MB for only 9 euro! http://www.copyrightdepot.com/ Vivian ----------- http://www.soundclick.com/Vivien Hi Viviane/Vivian/Vivien (you spell your own name 3 different ways in a single post!  I am not impressed by copyrightdepot.com... first, the website seems freakishly amateurish. And here's one of the first quotes I came across : "ATTENTION : Please take the time to read all the informations before contact us. 99,9% of all e-mail request concern very well explicated matter. Help us to keep this low price service. Do your part and read all the informations." Not exactly trust-inspiring, is it?  When dealing with sensitive legal matters, one would expect such an organization to at least use a competent translator. If the copy writer is this incompetent, what does this potentially say of the notary they claim to be using? I mean, isn't this all about paperwork? Would you trust yours to the people who wrote the above copy? |
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#15
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"Viviane Beullens" wrote in message
... In Canada is the very interesting online copyrightdepot.com where people of all over the world can do a deposit of 10 MB for only 9 euro! http://www.copyrightdepot.com/ Vivian ----------- http://www.soundclick.com/Vivien Hi Viviane/Vivian/Vivien (you spell your own name 3 different ways in a single post! I am not impressed by copyrightdepot.com... first, the website seems freakishly amateurish. And here's one of the first quotes I came across : "ATTENTION : Please take the time to read all the informations before contact us. 99,9% of all e-mail request concern very well explicated matter. Help us to keep this low price service. Do your part and read all the informations." Not exactly trust-inspiring, is it? When dealing with sensitive legal matters, one would expect such an organization to at least use a competent translator. If the copy writer is this incompetent, what does this potentially say of the notary they claim to be using? I mean, isn't this all about paperwork? Would you trust yours to the people who wrote the above copy? |
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#16
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Jan -
Of course I trust them. And if you look at some of the companies who did their deposits there, then you should be reassured. It's normal they ask you to read their web pages; it's an internet service and this and only this allows them to keep prices low. We're in the Internet time now! If you send an envelop to yourself this will be valid only one time! You can also pay 30 $ per song if you want to. And how long will it be valid? Viviane (In French it is Viviane, in English Vivian, and Vivien is because at soundclick I had no other choice, all the other Vivians existed already ) "Jon J. Yeager" wrote: "Viviane Beullens" wrote in message ... In Canada is the very interesting online copyrightdepot.com where people of all over the world can do a deposit of 10 MB for only 9 euro! http://www.copyrightdepot.com/ Vivian ----------- http://www.soundclick.com/Vivien Hi Viviane/Vivian/Vivien (you spell your own name 3 different ways in a single post! I am not impressed by copyrightdepot.com... first, the website seems freakishly amateurish. And here's one of the first quotes I came across : "ATTENTION : Please take the time to read all the informations before contact us. 99,9% of all e-mail request concern very well explicated matter. Help us to keep this low price service. Do your part and read all the informations." Not exactly trust-inspiring, is it? When dealing with sensitive legal matters, one would expect such an organization to at least use a competent translator. If the copy writer is this incompetent, what does this potentially say of the notary they claim to be using? I mean, isn't this all about paperwork? Would you trust yours to the people who wrote the above copy? |
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#17
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Jan -
Of course I trust them. And if you look at some of the companies who did their deposits there, then you should be reassured. It's normal they ask you to read their web pages; it's an internet service and this and only this allows them to keep prices low. We're in the Internet time now! If you send an envelop to yourself this will be valid only one time! You can also pay 30 $ per song if you want to. And how long will it be valid? Viviane (In French it is Viviane, in English Vivian, and Vivien is because at soundclick I had no other choice, all the other Vivians existed already ) "Jon J. Yeager" wrote: "Viviane Beullens" wrote in message ... In Canada is the very interesting online copyrightdepot.com where people of all over the world can do a deposit of 10 MB for only 9 euro! http://www.copyrightdepot.com/ Vivian ----------- http://www.soundclick.com/Vivien Hi Viviane/Vivian/Vivien (you spell your own name 3 different ways in a single post! I am not impressed by copyrightdepot.com... first, the website seems freakishly amateurish. And here's one of the first quotes I came across : "ATTENTION : Please take the time to read all the informations before contact us. 99,9% of all e-mail request concern very well explicated matter. Help us to keep this low price service. Do your part and read all the informations." Not exactly trust-inspiring, is it? When dealing with sensitive legal matters, one would expect such an organization to at least use a competent translator. If the copy writer is this incompetent, what does this potentially say of the notary they claim to be using? I mean, isn't this all about paperwork? Would you trust yours to the people who wrote the above copy? |
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#18
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Jon J. Yeager wrote:
"Viviane Beullens" wrote in message ... In Canada is the very interesting online copyrightdepot.com where people of all over the world can do a deposit of 10 MB for only 9 euro! http://www.copyrightdepot.com/ Vivian ----------- http://www.soundclick.com/Vivien Hi Viviane/Vivian/Vivien (you spell your own name 3 different ways in a single post! I am not impressed by copyrightdepot.com... first, the website seems freakishly amateurish. And here's one of the first quotes I came across : "ATTENTION : Please take the time to read all the informations before contact us. 99,9% of all e-mail request concern very well explicated matter. Help us to keep this low price service. Do your part and read all the informations." Not exactly trust-inspiring, is it? When dealing with sensitive legal matters, one would expect such an organization to at least use a competent translator. If the copy writer is this incompetent, what does this potentially say of the notary they claim to be using? I mean, isn't this all about paperwork? Would you trust yours to the people who wrote the above copy? All this site does is date stamp your work. For this they charge $14 Canadian. Posting it to soundclick achieves the same thing for that they charge $0 Canadian. Cheers Gary -- --semper sume remedium casum-- http://www.soundclick.com/bands/garyyeomans.htm http://www.mp3.com.au/artist.asp?id=11367 http://members.optusnet.com.au/snabbu/home.html |
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#19
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"Irene Jackson" wrote in message news:1xMod.308533$Pl.115930@pd7tw1no...
There is some information on SOCAN's website about copyright he http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/c...gd_main-e.html The "poor man's copyright" debate has been argued to death in this newsgroup...personally, I wouldn't think of it as much protection, but that's just my take. No, it's not your take it's the laws take! No such thing as a poor mans copyright. Lets all make up things! What about a poor mans money order? Just mail a copy of a previously used money order! Also, copyright in Canada does not protect anything more than the title, whereas a US copyright protects the melody and lyrics, so you might consider investing in that if you feel you have to. Another shining moment of ignorance on your part! You are how old? been writing for how long? And you don't even know what a Canadian copyright covers? What a winner! |
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#20
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"Irene Jackson" wrote in message
news:T8Qod.315539$nl.308786@pd7tw3no... "Jon J. Yeager" wrote in message . .. "Irene Jackson" wrote in message news:1xMod.308533$Pl.115930@pd7tw1no... There is some information on SOCAN's website about copyright he http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/c...gd_main-e.html The "poor man's copyright" debate has been argued to death in this newsgroup...personally, I wouldn't think of it as much protection, but that's just my take. Also, copyright in Canada does not protect anything more than the title, whereas a US copyright protects the melody and lyrics, so you might consider investing in that if you feel you have to. I do. How much is it, and is it accessible to non-US citizens? $30US and yes anyone can file for a US copyright. You'll need the short form PA he http://www.copyright.gov/forms/ I only caught the tail-end of this thread, but... does one album constitute a single copyrightable item, or is it per song necessarily? Perhaps on a per-CD content basis? |
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#21
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"snabbu" wrote in message
... Jon J. Yeager wrote: When dealing with sensitive legal matters, one would expect such an organization to at least use a competent translator. If the copy writer is this incompetent, what does this potentially say of the notary they claim to be using? I mean, isn't this all about paperwork? Would you trust yours to the people who wrote the above copy? All this site does is date stamp your work. For this they charge $14 Canadian. Posting it to soundclick achieves the same thing for that they charge $0 Canadian. I'm not sure how much an "uploaded" date on Soundclick could hold up in court. What if you're buddies with the admin? Couldn't you claim you uploaded "Vertigo" 3 or 4 years before U2 released it? It's not like computer timestamps are hard to forge. |
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#22
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Alright, here's the deal. In Canada there is no need to submit copies of the
work to be copyrighted to some office. Copyright in Canada occurs upon fixation of the work in a tangible form. Copright is therefore Automatic upon fixation. Canadian Copright covers ANY music as long as the work is in a tangible form (recorded to audio, scored on sheet music, etc). If the music has not been fixed (in other words, if it's a great idea floating around in your head) it has not been copyrighted. In order to be eligible for copright under the Act you music satisfy 3 requirments: 1) At the date the work is created you must be a Canadian, British or treaty country citizen or resident 2) The work must be Original. (the idea need not be original, but the form must be) 3) The work must be fixed in some material form capable of identification. Whoever said that copyright does not cover anything more than the title is entirely incorrect. In fact they have it quite backwards, for the title of a song is not protected by copyright, but the content of the song is. From the Canadian Copright Act summary: "The word "original" is key in defining a work that qualifies for copyright protection. Naturally, you cannot obtain a copyright for someone else's creation. Originality can be tricky to determine, however, and many court cases revolve around the question of whether a work has been copied, even in part, from somebody else's work." This may leave you uneasy but i have had many talks with Socan employee's who assure me that it is entirely enforceable. "Oh Yeah??" i asked pessimistically, but he responded that IF someone ever OUTRIGHT STOLE my composition and claimed it was their own, the case would be brought to court in which case witnesses would be called. Witnesses would include musical partners (other members of a band), your publisher, your manager, any colleagues or associates who can vouch for this being your product. Multitrack recordings, track sheets, documentation of any sort would also come into play. This could also include mailing a self addressed packaged (but even that has not stood up in court on certain instances). Just like any court case, the more evidence the better. You should also know that by entering into a publishing agreement you are giving licensing over your copyright to your publisher. And by the way, PLEASE have your publishing agreement read my an ENTERTAINMENT lawyer. Hope this helps a little, Roach "Jon J. Yeager" wrote in message . .. This question must get asked a lot - and I apologize if it's in any sort of FAQ I haven't seen - but how does an unpublished Canadian artist copyright songs before putting them online or sending out demos... other than the traditional registered timestamped snail-mail method? Is there a "copyright office" that keeps a record of songs? Especially now that they can easily be kept digitally via mp3 and don't take up any physical space. Calls to Canada Copyrights didn't lead to anything tangible, and I'm waiting to hear back from the SOCAN. Thanks for any information you can provide. |
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#23
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"Sock Puppet #4" wrote in message
... "Irene Jackson" wrote in message news:T8Qod.315539$nl.308786@pd7tw3no... "Jon J. Yeager" wrote in message . .. "Irene Jackson" wrote in message news:1xMod.308533$Pl.115930@pd7tw1no... There is some information on SOCAN's website about copyright he http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/c...gd_main-e.html The "poor man's copyright" debate has been argued to death in this newsgroup...personally, I wouldn't think of it as much protection, but that's just my take. Also, copyright in Canada does not protect anything more than the title, whereas a US copyright protects the melody and lyrics, so you might consider investing in that if you feel you have to. I do. How much is it, and is it accessible to non-US citizens? $30US and yes anyone can file for a US copyright. You'll need the short form PA he http://www.copyright.gov/forms/ I only caught the tail-end of this thread, but... does one album constitute a single copyrightable item, or is it per song necessarily? Perhaps on a per-CD content basis? Well, you can copyright a "collection" of songs for the price of one copyright. There's also copyright for sound recording, which is a little different. IJ |
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#24
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Sock Puppet #4 wrote:
"snabbu" wrote in message ... Jon J. Yeager wrote: When dealing with sensitive legal matters, one would expect such an organization to at least use a competent translator. If the copy writer is this incompetent, what does this potentially say of the notary they claim to be using? I mean, isn't this all about paperwork? Would you trust yours to the people who wrote the above copy? All this site does is date stamp your work. For this they charge $14 Canadian. Posting it to soundclick achieves the same thing for that they charge $0 Canadian. I'm not sure how much an "uploaded" date on Soundclick could hold up in court. What if you're buddies with the admin? Couldn't you claim you uploaded "Vertigo" 3 or 4 years before U2 released it? It's not like computer timestamps are hard to forge. That would require Soundclick to conspire with you in a contempt of court. As well as the usenet admin if you did what most people do. That is post it here and link it. Together with half a dozen affidavits from the regulars on this board as to when it existed. I'm sure it would stand up. Time stamp sites are a waste of money. Cheers Gary -- --semper sume remedium casum-- http://www.soundclick.com/bands/garyyeomans.htm http://www.mp3.com.au/artist.asp?id=11367 http://members.optusnet.com.au/snabbu/home.html |
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#25
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"Mike Rocha" wrote in message
... Whoever said that copyright does not cover anything more than the title is entirely incorrect. I stand corrected. However, this part of the Application for Copyright is what leads me to believe that protection is limited: "Do not send a copy of your work along with the application. The Copyright Office does not review or assess works in any way, nor does the Office check to see if the title of your work has already been used." In the US, you send a CD or tape of the work as well. I'm in Canada, by the way. IJ |
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#26
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"Irene Jackson" wrote in message news:vUUod.320844$%k.22180@pd7tw2no... "Mike Rocha" wrote in message ... Whoever said that copyright does not cover anything more than the title is entirely incorrect. I stand corrected. However, this part of the Application for Copyright is what leads me to believe that protection is limited: "Do not send a copy of your work along with the application. The Copyright Office does not review or assess works in any way, nor does the Office check to see if the title of your work has already been used." Also interesting is this dooooozy: "However, registration is no guarantee against infringement. You have to take legal action on your own if you believe your rights have been violated. Also, registration is no guarantee that your claim of ownership will eventually be recognized as legitimate. Note too, that the Copyright Office does not check to ensure that your work is indeed original, as you claim. Verification of your claim can only be done through a court of law." http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/c...html#section01 So basically, in Canada, you're paying 50 bucks per certificate which in the end would be included in the pile of evidence that you'd drag to court if an infringement case occurs. Just one more document, along with your self-addressed envelope. I guess what it comes down to is keep your documents as numerous, detailed and organized as possible. This could include invoices from studio time, and other production related invoices. I've been assured in the past that infringements of copyright pertaining to musical work is quite rare. I personally don't know anyone or have even heard of anyone going around stealing the work of other people. Knock on wood.... I guess all this just goes to prove the age old adage that nothing in life is for sure except for death and taxes. Roach |
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#27
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"Irene Jackson" wrote in message news:GMUod.317559$nl.64029@pd7tw3no... "Sock Puppet #4" wrote in message ... I only caught the tail-end of this thread, but... does one album constitute a single copyrightable item, or is it per song necessarily? Perhaps on a per-CD content basis? Well, you can copyright a "collection" of songs for the price of one copyright. There's also copyright for sound recording, which is a little different. You can indeed copyright a collection of songs with a single copyright -- call it "Folio #1" or something like that. The advantage is obvious -- it's cheap. The disadvantage is that the individual song titles won't show up in the Copyright Office's database, so someone searching for one of your titles won't find it. Whether that is important to you is, of course, up to you, depending on what you foresee doing with your songs. Peace, Paul |
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#28
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From what I understand (and I am *not* a lawyer), in the USA you can sue
successfully for copyright infringement only if you've actually registered the copyright with the Copyright Office. The copyright actually exists from the moment of the work's creation, but it's not enforceable without the registration. Thus, date-stamping schemes (online or mail-an-envelope-to-yourself) won't hold up in court. If I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll know in a few minutes. Peace, Paul |
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#29
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#31
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I guess what it comes down to is keep your documents as numerous, detailed
and organized as possible. This could include invoices from studio time, and other production related invoices. I've been assured in the past that infringements of copyright pertaining to musical work is quite rare. I personally don't know anyone or have even heard of anyone going around stealing the work of other people. Knock on wood.... I guess all this just goes to prove the age old adage that nothing in life is for sure except for death and taxes. Roach I agree. I still fail to see why people are so paranoid about protecting their songs. We all know that making money from a song has little to do with the quality of it. Both good, and extremely bad songs, can become hits. Not only that but a lot of hit songs are written in less than an hour. It would take someone longer than that to steal one! Writing the song is the easy part. Making money from it is the difficult bit. It is now so difficult to come up with a completely original (but still attractive) melody, that most infringment cases that come up in court are no more than unfortunate coincidences. I haven't registered any of my songs, and neither do I intend to. If the proof I have of date of creation isn't good enough to win a case (in the highly unlikely event that one should arise), anyone who can make more money than me from one of my songs is welcome to it. I may just hassle them for some marketing tips though!  )-- Lynn ============== Listen to my music... http://www.soundclick.com/wobbly http://www.soundclick.com/lynn http://www.soundclick.com/johnmckeon http://www.soundclick.com/dickosboogieband http://music.download.com/lynn/3600-...tag=list#songs "Mike Rocha" wrote in message ... "Irene Jackson" wrote in message news:vUUod.320844$%k.22180@pd7tw2no... "Mike Rocha" wrote in message ... Whoever said that copyright does not cover anything more than the title is entirely incorrect. I stand corrected. However, this part of the Application for Copyright is what leads me to believe that protection is limited: "Do not send a copy of your work along with the application. The Copyright Office does not review or assess works in any way, nor does the Office check to see if the title of your work has already been used." Also interesting is this dooooozy: "However, registration is no guarantee against infringement. You have to take legal action on your own if you believe your rights have been violated. Also, registration is no guarantee that your claim of ownership will eventually be recognized as legitimate. Note too, that the Copyright Office does not check to ensure that your work is indeed original, as you claim. Verification of your claim can only be done through a court of law." http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/c...html#section01 So basically, in Canada, you're paying 50 bucks per certificate which in the end would be included in the pile of evidence that you'd drag to court if an infringement case occurs. Just one more document, along with your self-addressed envelope. I guess what it comes down to is keep your documents as numerous, detailed and organized as possible. This could include invoices from studio time, and other production related invoices. I've been assured in the past that infringements of copyright pertaining to musical work is quite rare. I personally don't know anyone or have even heard of anyone going around stealing the work of other people. Knock on wood.... I guess all this just goes to prove the age old adage that nothing in life is for sure except for death and taxes. Roach |
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#32
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In my humble opinion, having researched copyright issues for various
reasons over the past ten years, you should forget about registration issues and concentrate on trying to create something worth stealing. If you were to register every song you think might get stolen, you might spend thousands, only to eventually realize that the problem is not guarding your work, but getting it out there, and getting it heard. Popular music is not like alchemy or roulette. The Beatles didn't hit a lucky combination of notes. They worked very, very hard, and it was the combination of their hard work, their talents, their personalities, and the active promotion of Brian Epstein that eventually led to the creation of songs worth stealing. By that time, I doubt they were very concerned about protecting their melodies, although I'm sure George's professional pride took a beating after the "My Sweet Lord" lawsuit. In any case, any songs that they might have registered before they were successful would have been almost completely irrelevant to them at that point. In any case, the odds that someone might hear your song on a web site, and not having every heard of you, and not having ever heard the song, and having the means to present a new version of it, and the inclination to steal it, along with the talent to create a viable new performance of it, etc., etc.... it's just too far out there to really be worth this much concern. Odds are, you might never have a melody stolen... but your agent, manager, lawyer, and record company will have picked you clean by then anyway. Good luck. Jon J. Yeager wrote: "Mike Rivers" wrote in message Are you referring to the $30-per-song registration at www.copyright.gov/forms as suggested by Irene, which store a physical copy of your song and lyrics? Or the "registration of name" only that exists in Canada (which doesn't store anything but the title, and hence I wonder what good that is at the end of the day). |
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#33
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"Bill Van Dyk" wrote in message
... In my humble opinion, having researched copyright issues for various reasons over the past ten years, you should forget about registration issues and concentrate on trying to create something worth stealing. Well said :-) IJ |
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#34
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Mike Rocha wrote:
snip I guess what it comes down to is keep your documents as numerous, detailed and organized as possible. This could include invoices from studio time, and other production related invoices. I've been assured in the past that infringements of copyright pertaining to musical work is quite rare. I personally don't know anyone or have even heard of anyone going around stealing the work of other people. Knock on wood.... snip Roach You are absolutely correct records are everything and not only in Canada. This is true everywhere. You must keep a song diary. Without it registration is next to valueless. Cheers Gary -- --semper sume remedium casum-- http://www.soundclick.com/bands/garyyeomans.htm http://www.mp3.com.au/artist.asp?id=11367 http://members.optusnet.com.au/snabbu/home.html |
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#35
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Paul Stamler wrote:
From what I understand (and I am *not* a lawyer), in the USA you can sue successfully for copyright infringement only if you've actually registered the copyright with the Copyright Office. The copyright actually exists from the moment of the work's creation, but it's not enforceable without the registration. Thus, date-stamping schemes (online or mail-an-envelope-to-yourself) won't hold up in court. If I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll know in a few minutes. Peace, Paul A few minutes pass :-). You can still sue. What it is is you do not have access to statutory damages. You can register after you become aware of being infringed. As long as you register within 90 days of publication or becoming aware of being infringed you have no problem. Longer time frames up to five years from publication give you access to lesser remedies. Cheers Gary -- --semper sume remedium casum-- http://www.soundclick.com/bands/garyyeomans.htm http://www.mp3.com.au/artist.asp?id=11367 http://members.optusnet.com.au/snabbu/home.html |
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#36
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Sock Puppet #4 wrote:
"Irene Jackson" wrote in message news:T8Qod.315539$nl.308786@pd7tw3no... "Jon J. Yeager" wrote in message t... "Irene Jackson" wrote in message news:1xMod.308533$Pl.115930@pd7tw1no... There is some information on SOCAN's website about copyright he http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/c...gd_main-e.html The "poor man's copyright" debate has been argued to death in this newsgroup...personally, I wouldn't think of it as much protection, but that's just my take. Also, copyright in Canada does not protect anything more than the title, whereas a US copyright protects the melody and lyrics, so you might consider investing in that if you feel you have to. I do. How much is it, and is it accessible to non-US citizens? $30US and yes anyone can file for a US copyright. You'll need the short form PA he http://www.copyright.gov/forms/ I only caught the tail-end of this thread, but... does one album constitute a single copyrightable item, or is it per song necessarily? Perhaps on a per-CD content basis? You can do a compilation or a body of work of several songs for the price of one song. I just sent off my first batch of songs a couple of weeks ago. Basically you just give the body of work a name. and then you list the name of each piece of work within the body of work. Eddie.............. |
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#37
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In article writes: Are you referring to the $30-per-song registration at www.copyright.gov/forms as suggested by Irene, which store a physical copy of your song and lyrics? I guess so. Since I'm not a songwriter, I don't keep up with the latest on cost and place to submit, but that sounds right. -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#38
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#39
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"Jon J. Yeager" wrote in message ...
This question must get asked a lot - and I apologize if it's in any sort of FAQ I haven't seen - but how does an unpublished Canadian artist copyright songs before putting them online or sending out demos... other than the traditional registered timestamped snail-mail method? Is there a "copyright office" that keeps a record of songs? Especially now that they can easily be kept digitally via mp3 and don't take up any physical space. Calls to Canada Copyrights didn't lead to anything tangible, and I'm waiting to hear back from the SOCAN. Thanks for any information you can provide. You will be able to have some legal leverage if you can manufacture and sell a first pressing through some kind of distribution network, big or small. If you show that your work was complete and fixed in a commercially available recording you will probably scare off anyone who might want to take 'inspiration' from it. I think you shouldn't worry unless the work has substantial possibility for mass-appeal or commercial potential. don't give away your publishing unless you have a guarantee that the song will be commercially available through a national distribution network within a reasonable amount of time, otherwise you will lose control of the song for no reason and the publisher will increase its catalog of songs for free. MP3's have basically made a mess of global copyright infringement. |
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#40
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"Jon J. Yeager" wrote in message ...
This question must get asked a lot - and I apologize if it's in any sort of FAQ I haven't seen - but how does an unpublished Canadian artist copyright songs before putting them online or sending out demos... other than the traditional registered timestamped snail-mail method? Is there a "copyright office" that keeps a record of songs? Especially now that they can easily be kept digitally via mp3 and don't take up any physical space. Calls to Canada Copyrights didn't lead to anything tangible, and I'm waiting to hear back from the SOCAN. Thanks for any information you can provide. One thing that will help you understand copyright is that the word copyright is a noun not a verb. You can't ever copyright something. You register the copyright. The moment you author the work, whether it's a song or a recording or somehting else, you hold/own the copyright. You can even use the C in a circle and the year. Copyright disputes are settled with proof. A copyright registration isn't proof, but it is something you should do before you publish your work. |
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