Hi

Which companies have multipair cable (bulk) with 12 to 16 mic and 2 speaker lines?

Whirlwind does - other sources?

Samuel

In article writes:

Which companies have multipair cable (bulk) with 12 to 16 mic and 2 speaker
lines?

Whirlwind does - other sources?

Horizon? Gepco? Joe's Fine Snakes?

Considering how heavy those are, you might want to check with your
local(est) dealer to see what he can order in order to save shipping
costs.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Roto-Rooter.

"Samuel Groner" wrote in message
om...
Hi

Which companies have multipair cable (bulk) with 12 to 16 mic and 2
speaker lines?

Whirlwind does - other sources?

Samuel

Samuel Groner wrote:

Which companies have multipair cable (bulk) with 12 to 16 mic and 2 speaker lines?

Whirlwind does - other sources?

In Germany, I'd ask Sommer Cable. They make some really nice stuff.

If you are looking for US sources because of the favorable exchange rate,
call up Markertek Video Supply. They carry cables from half a dozen
manufacturers and will know who has what available. I know Rapco has powered
snake line, and I think Gepco makes some. I would not be surprised if there
was also a Belden type.

If you can buy enough to get the minimum on a custom order, SAB cables in
Munich does absolutely amazing work. They aren't cheap, but they will do
mixed power/signal bundles and some of the stuff they have off the shelf
might make you happy. These are designed mostly for industrial instrument
work but they might do the job and they will certainly outlast anything out
there.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I figured that everyone would think this was a bad idea.

"Don Cooper"

I figured that everyone would think this was a bad idea.


** Tantamount to insanity.

The risk of HF oscillation damaging power amps and tweeters if any mic
line EVER becomes unbalanced is not worth taking.




................ Phil

Thanks for all answers!

I figured that everyone would think this was a bad idea.

True, but sometimes a bad solution is better than no solution...

Samuel

Don Cooper wrote:
I figured that everyone would think this was a bad idea.

It is a bad idea, but people do it anyway. For a short run with a stable
amp it's not all _that_ bad.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article writes:

I figured that everyone would think this was a bad idea.

None the less, it's a common and useful product. There's potential
danger if the amplifier decides to oscillate on its own, but the
probability of a short between amplifier output and mixer input
through the cable is pretty slim. Same with the presence of a feedback
path through the capacitance of the adjacent cables.

But anything could happen if you're unlucky or careless enough.
Greater risk if the mic lines were unbalanced, but that would be a
fault of the choice or mic or mixer, or a cable wiring failure.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Scott Dorsey"
Don Cooper
I figured that everyone would think this was a bad idea.

It is a bad idea, but people do it anyway. For a short run with a stable
amp it's not all _that_ bad.



** Amp stability has NOTHING to do with the matter.

Positive feedback at supersonic frequencies via inductive coupling is the
WORRY.




............ Phil

"Mike Rivers"

I figured that everyone would think this was a bad idea.

None the less, it's a common and useful product.


** So are matches and razor blades - but not in the hands of babies.


There's potential danger if the amplifier decides to oscillate on its own,


** Even for a parrot - that is really dumb.


but the
probability of a short between amplifier output and mixer input
through the cable is pretty slim.


** Wow - he just beat his previous record inanity !!


Same with the presence of a feedback
path through the capacitance of the adjacent cables.


** ES shielding will likely stop that - but do nothing about the induction
loop effects.


But anything could happen if you're unlucky or careless enough.


** Is that supposed to be a reason to not take sensible precautions ??

Because " **** Happens " ????????


Greater risk if the mic lines were unbalanced, but that would be a
fault of the choice or mic or mixer, or a cable wiring failure.



** Only has to happen once - then you smoke your amps and tweeters.

Clint Eastwood had the right line here.





............. Phil

Phil Allison wrote:

** Amp stability has NOTHING to do with the matter.

Positive feedback at supersonic frequencies via inductive coupling is the
WORRY.


***** Not to mention Doppler Distortion.

In article writes:

Same with the presence of a feedback
path through the capacitance of the adjacent cables.


** ES shielding will likely stop that - but do nothing about the induction
loop effects.

More theoretically correct but practically meaningless Allison droppings.

Please describe an experiment I can perform at home that will
demonstrate this. Yes, I think you're pointing out a possible, but
highly unlikely occurrence here. How far apart do you recommend
microphone and speaker cables be kept before there is no chance for a
problem? Shall I start with that spacing and move them closer together
until smoke appears?


** Only has to happen once - then you smoke your amps and tweeters.

Then you fix what broke and you move on. Same as any other problem.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Mike Rivers"
Phil Allison

Same with the presence of a feedback
path through the capacitance of the adjacent cables.


** ES shielding will likely stop that - but do nothing about the
induction
loop effects.

More theoretically correct but practically meaningless Allison droppings.


** It is really simple - ES shielding does not STOP magnetic field
induction !!!!

The speaker cable has high enough current to develop a strong mag field.


Please describe an experiment I can perform at home that will
demonstrate this.


** Absurd featherless parrot's idea.


Yes, I think you're pointing out a possible, but
highly unlikely occurrence here.


** What you think demonstrates only how dumb you are.


How far apart do you recommend
microphone and speaker cables be kept before there is no chance for a
problem?


** Certainly not safe when tied together over long lengths.

A meter apart should be safe even with an acidentally unbalanced mic line.



** Only has to happen once - then you smoke your amps and tweeters.

Then you fix what broke and you move on.


** The advice of a totally insane ****wit !!

The damage caused to power amps by supersonic oscillation can be massive and
very expensive to fix - speaker x-overs can literally catch on fire.




............. Phil

"Phil Allison"
** Amp stability has NOTHING to do with the matter.

Positive feedback at supersonic frequencies via inductive coupling is the
WORRY.

There is often considerable divergence between theory and practice in audio
and many other fields.

Ever do much live sound, Phil? Because if you bitched about what a dumb
idea it is based on personal experience with said item rather than just opining
abstractly, it would come off a bit better. You sound like an armchair
quarterback - err - grumpy benchtech who hates his job.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

"WillStG
"Phil Allison"

** Amp stability has NOTHING to do with the matter.

Positive feedback at supersonic frequencies via inductive coupling is the
WORRY.


There is often considerable divergence between theory and practice in
audio
and many other fields.


** The smug fool starts with a sweeping false assertion.


Ever do much live sound, Phil?


** Then follows an utterly irrelevant, loaded question


Because if you bitched about what a dumb
idea it is based on personal experience with said item rather than just
opining
abstractly, it would come off a bit better.


** Said item = a length of cable consisting of speaker and mic lines
run together.


You sound like an armchair
quarterback - err - grumpy benchtech who hates his job.



** OTOH you sound like a complete ****wit with a massive attitude problem.

Pretty much a normal resident of this NG.




................ Phil

"Phil Allison"
** The smug fool starts with a sweeping false assertion.

This is my *experience*, that what should be theorectically and what you
have to deal with as an "operator" in the *real world* are often divergent.
(Gee what kinda response is that, you doing a Tarot card reading?)

** Then follows an utterly irrelevant, loaded question

You're ducking the question Phil. Dealing with a dumbass designer's
ideas is part of Daily life for *working guys* in the Pro Audio world. A
"false claim"? Ok.

** Said item = a length of cable consisting of speaker and mic lines
run together.

There are small clubs with PA's set ups with the amps at the board not on
the stage.

** OTOH you sound like a complete ****wit with a massive attitude problem.

Pretty much a normal resident of this NG.

Well sure Phil, thanks. I owe a lot to the Greater Fraternity of Audio
Guy/****wits with massive attitude problems, and am happy to be part of the
tradition.



Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

"WillStG"


** Will is a compulsive context snipper - so he gets no replies from me.





........... Phil

"Phil Allison" wrote in message ...

"Scott Dorsey"
Don Cooper
I figured that everyone would think this was a bad idea.

It is a bad idea, but people do it anyway. For a short run with a
stable amp it's not all _that_ bad.

** Amp stability has NOTHING to do with the matter.

Positive feedback at supersonic frequencies via inductive coupling
is the WORRY.

But wouldn't an amp susceptible to that problem be called "unstable"?

"L David Matheny"
"Phil Allison.

"Scott Dorsey"
Don Cooper
I figured that everyone would think this was a bad idea.

It is a bad idea, but people do it anyway. For a short run with a
stable amp it's not all _that_ bad.

** Amp stability has NOTHING to do with the matter.

Positive feedback at supersonic frequencies via inductive coupling
is the WORRY.

But wouldn't an amp susceptible to that problem be called "unstable"?


** No.

All amps are "susceptable" to positive feedback - as are all PA systems.




............ Phil

Phil Allison wrote:

** OTOH you sound like a complete ****wit with a massive attitude problem.

Pretty much a normal resident of this NG.


I hoping you don't have a wood chipper.

Phil Allison wrote:

All amps are "susceptable" to positive feedback - as are all PA systems.


***** We should only get the same from you.

8 )