Can someone give me the skinny on these amps..such as the one seen he

http://tinyurl.com/t3tl

Just wondering where these amps fall into the sound quality pile? I don't
see them on their website, what other amps would these be compared to?

Would these replace a similarly powered Zapco as far as sound quality goes?

Pug Fugley wrote
Can someone give me the skinny on these amps..such as the one seen he

http://tinyurl.com/t3tl

Just wondering where these amps fall into the sound quality pile? I don't
see them on their website, what other amps would these be compared to?

Would these replace a similarly powered Zapco as far as sound quality
goes?

Xtant has an impeccable reputation ... on the other hand, I still think
you're nuts to pack in your Zapco setup :-)

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

considering xtant is now nothing but a overglorified mtx in a pretty
dress i would say you are nuts to ditch the zapco


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Whoa, wait a minute! Calling an Xtant amp a dressed up MTX is not even
close to correct. They are not the same in any way, that would be like
saying that because GM owns Cadlliac and Saturn that both are the same.
Mitek mayown both, but its not like they shut off the MTX amp line,
then switchover to Xtant. Their processes are completely different.

As for the "A" series,they are a quality amp at a decent price. You
would be very happy with the SQ of an "A" series amp.


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Actually if you do know any retailers that wont lie to you, Xtant did do
a changeover this last couple of years where their engineering is now
basically a glorified mtx. I know of a couple of shops that gave them
the boot for doing so. And when i was working in phoenix we had a
couple reps pushing xtant with a promise of a lower cost amp line
basically made by mtx.


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I mean thats not to say they dont have bad equipment, I mean hell
Hifonics is owned by power accoustic as well as soundstream and i am a
fanatic of both those companies. I would just keep an eye out for a
couple of model that are a little older


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" ...Xtant did do a changeover this last couple of years where their
engineering is now basically a glorified mtx...."

That's total BS. Different technology, different features (none of the
MTX amps have plug in cards, none of the amps in the MTX line look like
the Xtant series, lots of differences in every product line). Take one
apart and compare, you will see a difference.

You could say the same for Coustic, it is not just a rebadged cheaper
MTX. There are just not enough similarities between them to be even
close.

Simon Broadley is the Vp of Electronics for Mitek and this is his reply
to a similar question on another forum - "You have to be absolutly
kidding.... Xtant Development is not just watered down MTX Development.
Yes we do both, but Xtant is where we really get to have fun...Check
out the Xtant1.1i - No way would we put $5 OP Amps in a MTX amp.


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..and I agree, some of the best ampsever made were the old Xtants!


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werd


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"Daniel Snooks" wrote in message
.. .
Pug Fugley wrote
Can someone give me the skinny on these amps..such as the one seen he

http://tinyurl.com/t3tl

Just wondering where these amps fall into the sound quality pile? I
don't
see them on their website, what other amps would these be compared to?

Would these replace a similarly powered Zapco as far as sound quality
goes?

Xtant has an impeccable reputation ... on the other hand, I still think
you're nuts to pack in your Zapco setup :-)


Well I guess I'll just stick with my Zapco amps then. I don't want to lose
one single bit of sound quality, I just wanted to simplify by doing away
with outboard crossovers, mulitple amps, and the Symbilink wiring.

My thinking was this..my Zapco amps are 7 years old. At the time they were
the best sounding amps on the planet. I guess I just figured that in that 7
years technology would have caught up and other amps would be just as good
as my old Zapco's. Guess not!

"cujo613" wrote in message
...

Actually if you do know any retailers that wont lie to you, Xtant did do
a changeover this last couple of years where their engineering is now
basically a glorified mtx. I know of a couple of shops that gave them
the boot for doing so. And when i was working in phoenix we had a
couple reps pushing xtant with a promise of a lower cost amp line
basically made by mtx.


--
cujo613
um, no where every you got or heard this information it's incorrect. There
owned by the same company as stated earlier but it's totally separate from
MTX. MTX & Coustic have more in common then MTX and Xtant. They share few
if any common parts or R&D.
This is like saying Porsche and VW are the same since they may share a few
fuses and nothing else.

Most shops that drop Xtant do not feel the need to properly train there
installers the inner workings of Xtant. You can't grab a Joe of the street
and have him throw in a Xtant amp you have to have training, and in most
shops this is very lacking. This is the same situation Alpine was in a few
years ago, that's why the only places that sold Alpine would sell them
"installed only" or the factory warranty was 90 or so days.

Your last statement about working in Phx is funny, because if you worked
there you could have toured the Xtant factory and the MTX that are not in
the same building.

Well I guess I'll just stick with my Zapco amps then. I don't want to lose
one single bit of sound quality, I just wanted to simplify by doing away
with outboard crossovers, mulitple amps, and the Symbilink wiring.

My thinking was this..my Zapco amps are 7 years old. At the time they were
the best sounding amps on the planet. I guess I just figured that in that 7
years technology would have caught up and other amps would be just as good
as my old Zapco's. Guess not!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
no don't get it wrong new amps do offer better technology, that's how they
keep making money, short of LinearPower. Amp companies are always trying to
improve there amps. I would go audition all the amps you can to see what's
out there and see what you like

It doesnt really matter that they arent in the same building. We had
offers to tour the plant just never really wanted to go. The only
reason we would have went was to check out the line. We carried
McIntosh and concluded Xtant couldnt stand up to them. And at the time
McIntosh was promising a larger sub amp. The only place I wanted to
visit and never got around to it was the Illusion factory.


--
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Why would you want to keep McIntosh? According to your logic they're just
glorified Clarion amps since they are owned by Clarion and have been for a
few years now.


Paul Vina



"cujo613" wrote in message
...

It doesnt really matter that they arent in the same building. We had
offers to tour the plant just never really wanted to go. The only
reason we would have went was to check out the line. We carried
McIntosh and concluded Xtant couldnt stand up to them. And at the time
McIntosh was promising a larger sub amp. The only place I wanted to
visit and never got around to it was the Illusion factory.


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Actually i guess you can say I get a little worked up over it. Saying
that Xtant is a "glorified" MTX may be a little bit of exaggeration,
but you can't say that Xtant amps are up to par with what they used to
be. It just annoys me to see good companies going the way of Fosgate.
Yes i think x tant has a lot of great pieces, but i think their quality
is slipping a little. Just like Fosgate they are beginning to slip
pretty cheap equipment out of the cracks. But they still are a great
company. And yes Mcintosh would be a glorified clarion.So excuse my
rantings they tend to get a little out of control. But it does sadden
me to watch great companies go downhill


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So enlighten me here. Like I said before It's been years since I gave up my
stores and got a 'real' job so I've been out of the loop for a while. I
remember we were one of the first Kicker dealers in the state if that gives
you any idea how old school I am!

So when I left, Zapco was pretty much the best sounding amps out there. I
remember Xtant was just in it's infancy, I think it was started by Jeff
Scoon? The guy from PPI? Kicker didn't have amps, JL had just become popular
even though I saw them in Lucio Proni's Mustang years before they 'went
public'.

So now what amps made today compare to Zapco?

While we're on the subject, what subs compare to Image Dynamics? I recently
tried a Rockford and a JL and both were horrid compared to my IDQ12..I knew
I never liked Rockford or JL for a reason and they sure aren't any better
today.





"cujo613" wrote in message
...

Actually i guess you can say I get a little worked up over it. Saying
that Xtant is a "glorified" MTX may be a little bit of exaggeration,
but you can't say that Xtant amps are up to par with what they used to
be. It just annoys me to see good companies going the way of Fosgate.
Yes i think x tant has a lot of great pieces, but i think their quality
is slipping a little. Just like Fosgate they are beginning to slip
pretty cheap equipment out of the cracks. But they still are a great
company. And yes Mcintosh would be a glorified clarion.So excuse my
rantings they tend to get a little out of control. But it does sadden
me to watch great companies go downhill


--
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I am a Image Dynamic fanatic. I dont think there is a single peice of
equipment that thay put out that I wouldnt love to have. The closest
thing to them I have found is Crystal Mobile Sound. And sound quality
wise a company called Mark Antony makes Tremendous equipment. Great
vacuum tube amps as well. Alot of their sq stuff is very comparable to
Zapco. High damping and slew rates.


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So when I left, Zapco was pretty much the best sounding amps out there. I
remember Xtant was just in it's infancy, I think it was started by Jeff
Scoon? The guy from PPI? Kicker didn't have amps,

Kicker had amps least 2 or 3 years before Xtant.


JL had just become popular
even though I saw them in Lucio Proni's Mustang years before they 'went
public'.


I remember owning a set of 10W4's (IIRC) and a friend of mine had a set of
10W5's back in 90 or 91, a couple of years before Xtant was around.


So now what amps made today compare to Zapco?


Brax amps are great. So are Audison, JL, Linear Power, and a number of
others.



While we're on the subject, what subs compare to Image Dynamics? I
recently
tried a Rockford and a JL and both were horrid compared to my IDQ12..I
knew
I never liked Rockford or JL for a reason and they sure aren't any better
today.


I've always like the sound of JL's better subs but never as much as my IDQ's
or my IDMAX. The old KEFs were sweet, Focal, Alumapro, The Sony ES
"bottlecap" subs, Pioneer Premier Reference (the yellow ones), 1st gen. Oz
woofers and d-series Solobarics. There are others as well but I could go on
for quite a while.



Paul Vina

Yeah Cujo,

I have 2 of the Crystal CMPx2 15" subs and they are better than any sub
I've heard.

That is the only sub I can actually say that I've heard changes in the
bass of my music that I never even knew were in the recordings. My
other subs never revealed the things in my music that they do, and,
they are LOUD.

They are the loudest SQ subs I've heard yet.

Haven't heard IDMAX yet.


--
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I only have the cse and I am stoked with them. I love how dynamic they
are. And for the price definatly a better price than the JL,s. My cse
are equivalent to the 15w3, but only cost $99.00 a peice versus the 295
for the w3. Crystal bangs


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"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:GMYob.82287$e01.268322@attbi_s02...
So when I left, Zapco was pretty much the best sounding amps out there.
I
remember Xtant was just in it's infancy, I think it was started by Jeff
Scoon? The guy from PPI? Kicker didn't have amps,

Kicker had amps least 2 or 3 years before Xtant.


JL had just become popular
even though I saw them in Lucio Proni's Mustang years before they 'went
public'.


I remember owning a set of 10W4's (IIRC) and a friend of mine had a set of
10W5's back in 90 or 91, a couple of years before Xtant was around.


So now what amps made today compare to Zapco?


Brax amps are great. So are Audison, JL, Linear Power, and a number of
others.

Wow. Linear Power is still around?? I remember they were the first company
to actually have different colored anodized heat sinks (I think) and the
first amp I had ever seen using a T03 transistor in the output stage. You
don't see much Linear stuff anymore!




While we're on the subject, what subs compare to Image Dynamics? I
recently
tried a Rockford and a JL and both were horrid compared to my IDQ12..I
knew
I never liked Rockford or JL for a reason and they sure aren't any
better
today.


I've always like the sound of JL's better subs but never as much as my
IDQ's
or my IDMAX. The old KEFs were sweet, Focal, Alumapro, The Sony ES
"bottlecap" subs, Pioneer Premier Reference (the yellow ones), 1st gen. Oz
woofers and d-series Solobarics. There are others as well but I could go
on
for quite a while.


Wow. Well that's good to know. I knew I was using the right stuff years
ago..I'm just amazed that my stuff is still at the top of the heap!

You mention Oz..I had 3 Oz 8" before my IDQ12..didn't care for them. The
only Oz I liked was the big BFB12 with the red logo..which I have hanging on
my wall today. Oz gave it to me as part of our dealer package!

. The
only Oz I liked was the big BFB12 with the red logo..which I have hanging on
my wall today. Oz gave it to me as part of our dealer package!

Oh that explains alot. You were a dealer. Thats why you believe in so many
audio myths, to sell people more gear and to make more money. So were did you
actually learn the crap that you think you know? Oh wait the almight magazine.
(Still waiting for you to prove me wrong)

Les

"Soundfreak03" wrote in message
...
. The
only Oz I liked was the big BFB12 with the red logo..which I have hanging
on
my wall today. Oz gave it to me as part of our dealer package!

Oh that explains alot. You were a dealer.

I was not a crack dealer so I can't help you or your mother. Sorry.

I was not a crack dealer so I can't help you or your mother. Sorry.


Still not answering the simple questions I have asked? Or for that matter Paul
or Mark have asked? Do I need to post them again for you?

Come on, Quit the snipping and answer the questions.

Les

Pug Fugley wrote
Well I guess I'll just stick with my Zapco amps then. I don't want to lose
one single bit of sound quality, I just wanted to simplify by doing away
with outboard crossovers, mulitple amps, and the Symbilink wiring.

My thinking was this..my Zapco amps are 7 years old. At the time they were
the best sounding amps on the planet. I guess I just figured that in that
7
years technology would have caught up and other amps would be just as good
as my old Zapco's. Guess not!

Well Pug ... I read the entire thread regarding Speaker Protection, and that
pretty much blows your technical credibility out of the water.

However, in keeping with this thread ...

You were wrong to assume that the old Zapco comp amps could be outdone by
cheap run-of-the-mill amps of today. Yes, there are plenty of amplifiers
made today that can do a similar/better (subjective of course) job then the
old Zapcos, but you will have to pay out some large bones to get them, same
as the comp Zapcos would have cost a mint back in the day ...

Come to think of it, you could buy yourself the new Zapco C2K-4.0X ... I
would consider that an upgrade.

--
Regards,
Dan Snooks

Wow. Linear Power is still around?? I remember they were the first company
to actually have different colored anodized heat sinks (I think) and the
first amp I had ever seen using a T03 transistor in the output stage. You
don't see much Linear stuff anymore!


Yep, www.linearpower.com Theu still have the
TO-3 series too. If there isn't a dealer near you they'll sell direct to
you for half of retail. I almost did it but I went with JL only because the
crossovers are built in. If I could sell my 300/4 for near what I paid for
it I'd get an AC DQX and 4 of the TO-3's. They cut back the number of
heatsink colors to 4 this year though.

You mention Oz..I had 3 Oz 8" before my IDQ12..didn't care for them. The
only Oz I liked was the big BFB12 with the red logo..which I have hanging
on
my wall today. Oz gave it to me as part of our dealer package!

When I say old Oz I mean old, like the original line from 92 or 93. The
original 200L, 250L and 300L in ported boxes were phenomenal sounding.
Easily the best I've heard next to my IDMAX. I really liked their original
CS-180 and CS-130 from the same year. man they sounded good.

Anyone remember the old Bazooka Euphonics? Revolver tweeter anyone? I
really liked those too. man, I miss the old days when companies products to
sound good not look good and sound ok.


Paul Vina

I liked my IDMAX in IB, I really liked it sealed in 1.45cf and I LOVE it in
my new 2.6cf 27Hz tuned enclosure. OMG! The absolute best I've EVER heard,
besides the IDW.


Paul Vina



"Will_Skillz" wrote in message
...

Yeah Cujo,

I have 2 of the Crystal CMPx2 15" subs and they are better than any sub
I've heard.

That is the only sub I can actually say that I've heard changes in the
bass of my music that I never even knew were in the recordings. My
other subs never revealed the things in my music that they do, and,
they are LOUD.

They are the loudest SQ subs I've heard yet.

Haven't heard IDMAX yet.


--
Will_Skillz
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"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:yw0pb.81903$HS4.679878@attbi_s01...
Wow. Linear Power is still around?? I remember they were the first
company
to actually have different colored anodized heat sinks (I think) and the
first amp I had ever seen using a T03 transistor in the output stage.
You
don't see much Linear stuff anymore!


Yep, www.linearpower.com Theu still have the
TO-3 series too. If there isn't a dealer near you they'll sell direct to
you for half of retail. I almost did it but I went with JL only because
the
crossovers are built in. If I could sell my 300/4 for near what I paid
for
it I'd get an AC DQX and 4 of the TO-3's. They cut back the number of
heatsink colors to 4 this year though.

You mention Oz..I had 3 Oz 8" before my IDQ12..didn't care for them. The
only Oz I liked was the big BFB12 with the red logo..which I have
hanging
on
my wall today. Oz gave it to me as part of our dealer package!

When I say old Oz I mean old, like the original line from 92 or 93. The
original 200L, 250L and 300L in ported boxes were phenomenal sounding.
Easily the best I've heard next to my IDMAX. I really liked their
original
CS-180 and CS-130 from the same year. man they sounded good.

Oh yes, I'm talking older than that. The three 8's I had were the original L
series. The BFB line was introduced as more of an SPL speaker instead of
sound quality like the L series. In fact I still have Oz 5.25" mids for rear
fill. Those things are still going strong!




Anyone remember the old Bazooka Euphonics? Revolver tweeter anyone? I
really liked those too. man, I miss the old days when companies products
to
sound good not look good and sound ok.

I remember them, but never was much into Bazooka.

"cujo613" wrote in message
...

I am a Image Dynamic fanatic. I dont think there is a single peice of
equipment that thay put out that I wouldnt love to have. The closest
thing to them I have found is Crystal Mobile Sound. And sound quality
wise a company called Mark Antony makes Tremendous equipment. Great
vacuum tube amps as well. Alot of their sq stuff is very comparable to
Zapco. High damping and slew rates.


--
cujo613

I just think it's funny that you are putting Zapco in class almost unto
themselves, I can think of 6 or so companies that sound just as good or not
better. The whole SQ thing, last time I checked the vehicle with the most
wins in IASCA pro used "lowly" MTX.

Nousiane (sp?) has a challenge that if you can hear a difference in DBT of
amps he'll pay you $10k, so to him all amps sound the same

I can think of alot also. I guess you can say im just stubborn. I will
admit it. I would love to have my Mark Antony vacuum Tube amp back, or
a Butler, or Brax, or a old school ppi art. But zapco and memphis is
what im using right now so i guess its the flag ill be waving for a
while.


--
cujo613
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Oh yes, I'm talking older than that. The three 8's I had were the original
L
series. The BFB line was introduced as more of an SPL speaker instead of
sound quality like the L series. In fact I still have Oz 5.25" mids for
rear
fill. Those things are still going strong!


The 92 or 93 line was the first year they were available. Those were the
subs and comps I really liked. Their comps have stayed high end but I feel
their subs have slid a little.

I remember them, but never was much into Bazooka.


Too bad, they were really good sounding separates.



Paul Vina

"Tha Ghee" wrote in message
...

"cujo613" wrote in message
...

I am a Image Dynamic fanatic. I dont think there is a single peice of
equipment that thay put out that I wouldnt love to have. The closest
thing to them I have found is Crystal Mobile Sound. And sound quality
wise a company called Mark Antony makes Tremendous equipment. Great
vacuum tube amps as well. Alot of their sq stuff is very comparable to
Zapco. High damping and slew rates.


--
cujo613

I just think it's funny that you are putting Zapco in class almost unto
themselves, I can think of 6 or so companies that sound just as good or
not
better. The whole SQ thing, last time I checked the vehicle with the most
wins in IASCA pro used "lowly" MTX.

Well, I didn't actually do that. You must have missed the original thread I
made. I asked what amps are compared to Zapco these days (I've been out of
the scene for a few years) and nobody could give me an answer. Everybody
said that nothing except maybe Brax could come close to Zapco still. I was
ready to try an Xtant, JL, Orion, PPI, Rockford, etc, amp just for fun but
everyone said that I would lose too much sound quality. I'm a tinkerer. I
just wanted to try to improve, but why bother when it looks like I can't
improve without spending $1200 for an amp?

And I don't care if a car with an MTX amp won Best Car Audio In the Known
Universe. The only place I'll install an MTX amp is into the trashcan.




Nousiane (sp?) has a challenge that if you can hear a difference in DBT of
amps he'll pay you $10k, so to him all amps sound the same

I'll take it. Who's Nousiaine?

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:mA3pb.84091$Tr4.210359@attbi_s03...
Oh yes, I'm talking older than that. The three 8's I had were the
original
L
series. The BFB line was introduced as more of an SPL speaker instead of
sound quality like the L series. In fact I still have Oz 5.25" mids for
rear
fill. Those things are still going strong!


The 92 or 93 line was the first year they were available. Those were the
subs and comps I really liked. Their comps have stayed high end but I
feel
their subs have slid a little.

You sure? 93 is about when I was getting out of the scene and I remember Oz
being around for a couple of years before that..maybe just one year though.
I'm not sure.

The only place I'll install an MTX amp is into the trashcan
PRICELESS I LOVE IT


--
cujo613
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Yep, I'm sure. I was working for an Oz dealer my first year out of high
school. We didn't get them until late in the year so it could have been 92.


Paul Vina





"Pug Fugley" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:mA3pb.84091$Tr4.210359@attbi_s03...
Oh yes, I'm talking older than that. The three 8's I had were the
original
L
series. The BFB line was introduced as more of an SPL speaker instead
of
sound quality like the L series. In fact I still have Oz 5.25" mids
for
rear
fill. Those things are still going strong!


The 92 or 93 line was the first year they were available. Those were
the
subs and comps I really liked. Their comps have stayed high end but I
feel
their subs have slid a little.

You sure? 93 is about when I was getting out of the scene and I remember
Oz
being around for a couple of years before that..maybe just one year
though.
I'm not sure.

Why? There's nothing wrong with MTX amps.


Paul Vina



"cujo613" wrote in message
...

The only place I'll install an MTX amp is into the trashcan
PRICELESS I LOVE IT


--
cujo613
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread:
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Nousiane (sp?) has a challenge that if you can hear a difference in DBT
of
amps he'll pay you $10k, so to him all amps sound the same

I'll take it. Who's Nousiaine?



You'll lose.

Tom Nousaine is an engineer and audio technical writer. He's been doing this
challenge for at least 10 years and NO ONE has EVER won it.


Paul Vina

I dont trust an amp that cant get a simple thing like the audio inputs
on their amps right. Its like 35% of those amps quit, put a little
pressure on the inputs and oh my god it works. Lets try to use higher
quality components.[shoot]mtx


--
cujo613
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That's funny because every Zapco dealer I know HATES the newer ones because
of that very problem.


Paul Vina



"cujo613" wrote in message
...

I dont trust an amp that cant get a simple thing like the audio inputs
on their amps right. Its like 35% of those amps quit, put a little
pressure on the inputs and oh my god it works. Lets try to use higher
quality components.[shoot]mtx


--
cujo613
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Umm all the new Zapcos come with a symbilink so you wouldnt be using the
rca input. My 1100m doesnt even have rca inputs. But yes i did have a
problem with the first symbilink I had. And i did hear that it was a
problem. But Zapco was all over the problem!! Damn lowest
bidders!!!!!!!!


--
cujo613
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