I would recommend experimenting on your microphone placement. Use an SM57 if
you have one instead of the 4050. I don't think that 4050 is going to be
very complimentary to a guitar being played through a Marshall. Also, try
layering the same guitar part a few times to start.

-Chris

wrote in message
...
Hey folks,

I'm having trouble getting a nice guitar sound ala RAGE AGAINST THE
MACHINE songs like
"Renegades of Funk" and "Bulls on Parade"

The project I'm working on needs hard guitar with minimal or NO harmony,
just doubled guitar/bass riffs....again, best well known example is Rage
against the machine.

Any tips to fattening up the sound?
I know this is a general question, but if there's something that
helps...ie types of compression & amount etc.

No matter what I do it sounds weak in comparison and I use some decent
mastering plugins as well

I'm using Cubase Audio 5, Behringer MX2442A mixer, AT4050 mic on a
Marshal amp with a few pedals.


P.S. DO NOT HIT REPLY, email me at:

thanks!
Anthony

Hi Chris:

I've never though of that before. I always used the "ideal" mic placemnet -
(just on the outside of the cone).
Any suggestions on other mic placemanet stratagies?

thanks
01

"Chris T. Young" wrote in message
...
I would recommend experimenting on your microphone placement. Use an SM57
if
you have one instead of the 4050. I don't think that 4050 is going to be
very complimentary to a guitar being played through a Marshall. Also, try
layering the same guitar part a few times to start.

-Chris

wrote in message
...
Hey folks,

I'm having trouble getting a nice guitar sound ala RAGE AGAINST THE
MACHINE songs like
"Renegades of Funk" and "Bulls on Parade"

The project I'm working on needs hard guitar with minimal or NO harmony,
just doubled guitar/bass riffs....again, best well known example is Rage
against the machine.

Any tips to fattening up the sound?
I know this is a general question, but if there's something that
helps...ie types of compression & amount etc.

No matter what I do it sounds weak in comparison and I use some decent
mastering plugins as well

I'm using Cubase Audio 5, Behringer MX2442A mixer, AT4050 mic on a
Marshal amp with a few pedals.


P.S. DO NOT HIT REPLY, email me at:

thanks!
Anthony

The best strategy is to experiment. Keep trying different placements (closer to
the cab, farther, more off center, more on, etc.). There really are no "rules"
here. It's what sounds the best, that counts. Sometimes, you have to keep
working on it for a while.

Here's an example that worked for me to get a pretty "big" sound...

A '57, just about at the edge of the cone and almost touching the grill cloth.
Then, another mic...can't remember exactly what we used, as it was a long time
ago (Sennheiser of some kind) on a stand, at the end of a hallway (20 feet or
so), pointing away from the cab, to pick up the reflections. My cab was pointed
down the hall. HUGE, awsome sound!! (Amp was an old JCM 800/2204 with 4 x 12
cab)

Just keep experimenting!

Mike



1000101 wrote:

Hi Chris:

I've never though of that before. I always used the "ideal" mic placemnet -
(just on the outside of the cone).
Any suggestions on other mic placemanet stratagies?

thanks
01

"Chris T. Young" wrote in message
...
I would recommend experimenting on your microphone placement. Use an SM57
if
you have one instead of the 4050. I don't think that 4050 is going to be
very complimentary to a guitar being played through a Marshall. Also, try
layering the same guitar part a few times to start.

-Chris

wrote in message
...
Hey folks,

I'm having trouble getting a nice guitar sound ala RAGE AGAINST THE
MACHINE songs like
"Renegades of Funk" and "Bulls on Parade"

The project I'm working on needs hard guitar with minimal or NO harmony,
just doubled guitar/bass riffs....again, best well known example is Rage
against the machine.

Any tips to fattening up the sound?
I know this is a general question, but if there's something that
helps...ie types of compression & amount etc.

No matter what I do it sounds weak in comparison and I use some decent
mastering plugins as well

I'm using Cubase Audio 5, Behringer MX2442A mixer, AT4050 mic on a
Marshal amp with a few pedals.


P.S. DO NOT HIT REPLY, email me at:

thanks!
Anthony

Rob Nugent wrote:

Yeah, I always thought about that. When you hear your amp, you're
standing like 6 feet away from it, while you're miking right next to the
speaker. If you stuck your ear right next to the speaker like your
microphone is placed (you'd probably go deaf for one), it would sound
just as thin. Part of the reason amps sound good is because they sound
great while filling up a room, giving you very suttle overtones. So,
like everyone else said, experiment with microphone placement to
simulate that full room sound you're looking for.


But you'll find that microphones don't quite work like that - at
least *most* microphones. And it depends a lot more on the
room when you back off the amp.

-Rob

wrote:

Hey folks,

I'm having trouble getting a nice guitar sound ala RAGE AGAINST THE
MACHINE songs like
"Renegades of Funk" and "Bulls on Parade"

The project I'm working on needs hard guitar with minimal or NO harmony,
just doubled guitar/bass riffs....again, best well known example is Rage
against the machine.

Any tips to fattening up the sound?
I know this is a general question, but if there's something that
helps...ie types of compression & amount etc.

No matter what I do it sounds weak in comparison and I use some decent
mastering plugins as well

I'm using Cubase Audio 5, Behringer MX2442A mixer, AT4050 mic on a
Marshal amp with a few pedals.


P.S. DO NOT HIT REPLY, email me at:

thanks!
Anthony








--
Les Cargill

To get that really thick sound you must always use more than one mic.
Nothing is wrong w/ a good'ol Sm57 but throw a Beta 52 on there too. That is
a large diaphram mic for a kick drum. Your rig will sound like it has two
sets of balls.

"Gord" wrote in message
om...
You need:

-a great guitar player
-a great guitar (I like Teles better than Strats because the hard tail
bridges make for fuller, richer sounding guitars)
-thick strings, like .011'-.049" gauge
-a great non master volume tube amp, cranked as loud as necessary to
get the desired tone (tweed Fender, plexi Marshall, old Traynor clone,
etc.)
-great guitar speakers (Celestion V30s)in a great cabinet in a great
sounding room
-a great mic (ever try old EV mics, like RE15 or 635a? They're great!)
-great mic preamp
-great converters
-great micing techniques

If you skimp out in any of the above, your recording will suffer.
Everything in the entire recording chain matters. I'd rather spend an
hour getting the mic positioned perfectly than ten hours trying to
make a lame guitar sound mediocre. You can totally avoid EQs and other
effects if you're diligent in setting things up well.

I find that double tracking makes the guitars sound huge, but often
makes other tracks such as vocals sound relatively small, so I avoid
it entirely in my own recordings.

Gord

"PAGreenP" wrote in message ...
To get that really thick sound you must always use more than one mic.
Nothing is wrong w/ a good'ol Sm57 but throw a Beta 52 on there too. That is
a large diaphram mic for a kick drum. Your rig will sound like it has two
sets of balls.

"Gord" wrote in message
om...
You need:

-a great guitar player
-a great guitar (I like Teles better than Strats because the hard tail
bridges make for fuller, richer sounding guitars)
-thick strings, like .011'-.049" gauge
-a great non master volume tube amp, cranked as loud as necessary to
get the desired tone (tweed Fender, plexi Marshall, old Traynor clone,
etc.)
-great guitar speakers (Celestion V30s)in a great cabinet in a great
sounding room
-a great mic (ever try old EV mics, like RE15 or 635a? They're great!)
-great mic preamp
-great converters
-great micing techniques

If you skimp out in any of the above, your recording will suffer.
Everything in the entire recording chain matters. I'd rather spend an
hour getting the mic positioned perfectly than ten hours trying to
make a lame guitar sound mediocre. You can totally avoid EQs and other
effects if you're diligent in setting things up well.

I find that double tracking makes the guitars sound huge, but often
makes other tracks such as vocals sound relatively small, so I avoid
it entirely in my own recordings.

Gord
I agree with all of the above from Gord.It starts with the
intrument/player/and the RIFF ITSELF!!! If you listen to renagades of
funk for instance,you will notice that the riff itself is
LOW/MONOPHONIC(one note at a time) and the bass guitar is following
the lead guitar note for note(UNISION).This is mainly why it
sounds"heavy".Complex chords other than root/fitfh/octave tend to fall
apart if one is looking for power.How many zep tunes all have the bass
player(jpj) following jimmy pages single note riffs?Many.(Black
dog)The guitar can actually be thinner in reallity.The bass player
adds the thump.I never heard a R.A.T.M. song with a chord.Try blending
a bit of 57 and your current mic I inch or less from the grill.