Onkyo has just come out with 3 different receivers, all based on a
modular architecture, where specific functions are built on plug-in
cards. This allows customers to pick and choose the functions they
want and also promises easy upgradeability in the future.

The TX-NR1000 comes fully loaded (all card slots filled) for about
$4500, under the Onkyo name.

The TRD-10.5 comes with some basic cards (additional cards are
promised for the near future) under the Integra logo, which is
Onkyo's higher end moniker. I am not sure about the final cost, but
it is sure to be substantially more expensive than the TX-NR1000.

In addition, Integra Research (Onkyo's highest end marque) will be
coming out with the RDC-7.1 prepro. Price with a basic card set is
said to be $4500. Of course, one will have to spend at least another
couple of grand to come up with the equivalent of a receiver.

So, here's the question: what do all these units sound like? I am in
the market for a better prepro than my old Denon and haven't heard
any of the three Onkyo units. No dealer in my area has a demo unit,
either.

The RDC-7.1 follows the RDC-7, an excellent performer that easily
stood it's own against super expensive prepros like the Parasound,
Krell, Lexicon, Theta, etc. I must assume that the RDC7.1 will be at
least as good, possibly better.

I suspect (though, am not sure) that all 3 Onkyo products use the
same plug in cards. Certainly, comparing pictures and specs of the
two receivers reinforces this suspicion. If so, I wonder whether
there is any sonic difference. If there isn't, then replacing my
prepro and power amplifiers with one of the Onkyo receivers may make
good sense for me.

Has anyone here auditioned any of the Onkyo units? if so, what was
your impressions? I will appreciate any comments.

TIA,

-- Ron

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 12:45:45 -0500, Ron wrote:
Onkyo has just come out with 3 different receivers, all based on a
modular architecture, where specific functions are built on plug-in
cards. This allows customers to pick and choose the functions they
want and also promises easy upgradeability in the future.

Done that, been there.

Complete waste of money; onkyo will probably never release more than
one or two pluging enhancements and by the time the next signifigant
improvement in technology comes in, in say 6-7 years, the entire
system will be obsolete.

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 12:00:20 -0600, TCS
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 12:45:45 -0500, Ron wrote:
Onkyo has just come out with 3 different receivers, all based on a
modular architecture, where specific functions are built on plug-in
cards. This allows customers to pick and choose the functions they
want and also promises easy upgradeability in the future.

Done that, been there.

Complete waste of money; onkyo will probably never release more than
one or two pluging enhancements and by the time the next signifigant
improvement in technology comes in, in say 6-7 years, the entire
system will be obsolete.

Not neccessarily. If a new standard comes out within the lifetime of
the system (say, 3 or 4 years) they will certainly come out with a
card for it. If for no other reason, then because there will be good
money to be made from it.

In addition, repair will be much easier. The units are pretty
complex and card swapping is a neat way of diagnosing problems.

The main attraction of the approach, though (for the manufacturer),
is the huge economy of scale advantage, of using essentially (or
maybe, exactly) the same cards in all 3 models.

I mentioned modularity, but that was not a big selling point for me,
either. Simply -- if all 3 models indeed utilize similar (or even
identical) cards, then they may all be on a very high caliber, since
the RDC-7.1 certainly will be. Which is why I asked whether anyone
has auditioned any of these units.

-- Ron

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 13:21:04 -0500, Ron wrote:
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 12:00:20 -0600, TCS
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 12:45:45 -0500, Ron wrote:
Onkyo has just come out with 3 different receivers, all based on a
modular architecture, where specific functions are built on plug-in
cards. This allows customers to pick and choose the functions they
want and also promises easy upgradeability in the future.

Done that, been there.

Complete waste of money; onkyo will probably never release more than
one or two pluging enhancements and by the time the next signifigant
improvement in technology comes in, in say 6-7 years, the entire
system will be obsolete.

Not neccessarily. If a new standard comes out within the lifetime of
the system (say, 3 or 4 years) they will certainly come out with a
card for it. If for no other reason, then because there will be good
money to be made from it.

In addition, repair will be much easier. The units are pretty
complex and card swapping is a neat way of diagnosing problems.

The main attraction of the approach, though (for the manufacturer),
is the huge economy of scale advantage, of using essentially (or
maybe, exactly) the same cards in all 3 models.

I mentioned modularity, but that was not a big selling point for me,
either. Simply -- if all 3 models indeed utilize similar (or even
identical) cards, then they may all be on a very high caliber, since
the RDC-7.1 certainly will be. Which is why I asked whether anyone
has auditioned any of these units.

Can you name a single manufactorer that has succedded in providing
more than a promise?

I've seen such upgradable systems for the last ten years and never once
has the equipment not been obsolete by the next major technology or been
cheaper than buying non-upgradable hardware and selling at 20% and buying
new.

TCS wrote in
:

Can you name a single manufactorer that has succedded in providing
more than a promise?

That's very true.

--
Lucas Tam )
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 19:07:59 GMT, Lucas Tam
wrote:

TCS wrote in
:

Can you name a single manufactorer that has succedded in providing
more than a promise?

That's very true.

Meridian.

Kal

"TCS" wrote in message
...
Can you name a single manufactorer that has succedded in providing
more than a promise?

I've seen such upgradable systems for the last ten years and never once
has the equipment not been obsolete by the next major technology or been
cheaper than buying non-upgradable hardware and selling at 20% and buying
new.

Exactly. My Marantz receiver is flash upgradable and only a 1 year old
model. I recently rang Marantz service to see the cost of upgrading the
receiver from Dolby Pro logic II to IIx and they've told me it is
unavailable!

I also totally agree that if you keep a receiver for 3-4 years then you'll
be better of selling and buying a brand new model rather than upgrade cards.
It's basically just marketing spin.

--
Italo

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 19:07:59 GMT, Lucas Tam
wrote:

TCS wrote in
:

Can you name a single manufactorer that has succedded in providing
more than a promise?

That's very true.

Actually, Onkyo (the manufactiurere my original post concerned)
upgraded the RDC-7 (predecessor to the subject RDC-7.1) not once,
but two times. The upgrades were fairly expensive, partly because
the whole prepro had to be shipped to the factory for board changes.
Had the unit used plugin cards, the upgrades would have been far
cheaper (and probably, had made the RDC-7.1 unneccessary).

As an aside: this whole modularity issue is a nit pick. My main
question concerned sonic performance of the listed
Onkyo/Integra/Integra-Reaserch products. HAS ANYONE AUDITIONED ANY
OF THEM?

TIA,

-- Ron

I seem to remember the Heathkit 'modulo' system. Never went anywhere
either.

Plug-ins are a neat idea but we should learn from HP and Tek
experience with test equipment as well as the PC world and other
incompatible computer buses like VME, NuBus, and SBus (SPARC). The PC
ISA, PCI buses succeeded because everyone made stuff for them, but even
so 90% of PCs go to the dump with the cards in them the factory put
there. Sure there are hundreds of exotic cards for PCI and other PC
standards but how many people put optical network, IRMA (IBM mainframe
midrange EBCDIC network), RF spectrum analyzer, or other such things in
a PC? I'd rather have a single board PC like a Mac LC or SPARCstation,
no upgrade, it breaks you send it in and they exchange it. When the
board is obsolete they recycle it and the new board fits the old
chassis like the Mac LC and SPARCstation pizzabox again.

Tek and HP mainframe scopes, spec ans, et al, were a good idea until
the cost of the host frame became trivial and the concept went by the
wayside. Tek had a nice modular system as well. No third party Plug-Ins
were again the problem.

Design for Upgrade is a better strategy than plug-ins. But until we
start putting a Landfill Tax on electronics, which we should have
thirty years ago, it won't happen.