People:

Whoever you want to win tomorrow, don't neglect to vote. And make
sure you urge everyone you know to vote. It's a democracy--let's make
it count.

jak163 said:

People:

Whoever you want to win tomorrow, don't neglect to vote. And make
sure you urge everyone you know to vote. It's a democracy--let's make
it count.

I still vote for KT88s PP in triode. Absolute winner.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

"jak163" wrote in message
...
People:

Whoever you want to win tomorrow, don't neglect to vote. And make
sure you urge everyone you know to vote. It's a democracy--let's make
it count.

And try not to think about how much OBL's recent tape sounded like Democrat
talking points.

"George M. Middius" wrote in message
...


jak163 said:

Whoever you want to win tomorrow, don't neglect to vote. And make
sure you urge everyone you know to vote. It's a democracy--let's make
it count.

Yes, definitely. I have to cancel out Mikey's vote.


Since I vote Libertarian, your vote won't affect mine. My guy will, still
lose.

"The Devil" wrote in message
news:708do0dhboipgff7thf5m0of6qao8fj59e@rdmzrnewst xt.nz...
On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 20:18:43 GMT, "Michael McKelvy"
wrote:

And try not to think about how much OBL's recent tape sounded like
Democrat
talking points.

You really do have a single-digit IQ, don't you?

--
You obviously haven't compared them, have you?

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message

"The Devil" wrote in message

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 20:18:43 GMT, "Michael McKelvy"
wrote:

And try not to think about how much OBL's recent tape sounded like
Democrat
talking points.

You really do have a single-digit IQ, don't you?

--
You obviously haven't compared them, have you?

I have. It sounds alarmingly like The Communist Manifesto and in this regard
is closer to the Democrat philosophy than the Republican.

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
jak163 said:

People:

Whoever you want to win tomorrow, don't neglect to vote. And make
sure you urge everyone you know to vote. It's a democracy--let's make
it count.

I still vote for KT88s PP in triode. Absolute winner.


KT66's PP in triode

"The Devil" wrote in message
news:708do0dhboipgff7thf5m0of6qao8fj59e@rdmzrnewst xt.nz...
On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 20:18:43 GMT, "Michael McKelvy"
wrote:

And try not to think about how much OBL's recent tape sounded like
Democrat
talking points.

You really do have a single-digit IQ, don't you?


Mikey is going to vote on Wednesday.

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

"The Devil" wrote in message
news:708do0dhboipgff7thf5m0of6qao8fj59e@rdmzrnewst xt.nz...
On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 20:18:43 GMT, "Michael McKelvy"
wrote:

And try not to think about how much OBL's recent tape sounded like
Democrat
talking points.

You really do have a single-digit IQ, don't you?


Mikey is going to vote on Wednesday.
Yet another thing you're wrong about.

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 20:18:43 GMT, "Michael McKelvy"
wrote:


"jak163" wrote in message
.. .
People:

Whoever you want to win tomorrow, don't neglect to vote. And make
sure you urge everyone you know to vote. It's a democracy--let's make
it count.

And try not to think about how much OBL's recent tape sounded like Democrat
talking points.

I think Bin Laden wants Bush. He's a smart man, and he must know that
it will help Bush to appear to oppose him in the election. I think
9/11 had to be intended as a provocation--what good would it do him if
we just went after him covertly? It was like the assassination of
Franz Ferdinand. If Austria had just gone after the Black Hand, the
Habsburg Empire would have retained its hold on Serbia. With World
War I, the Habsburg Empire was destroyed.

In response to 9/11, we've taken out Saddam, who headed a secular
regime Bin Laden opposed, isolated ourselves from the world, and
pinned down all our military resources without reducing Al Qaeda's
personnel on net. The UN is in tatters and we could be on the verge
of a nuclear war with Iran, which could escalate to include Israel.
Oil prices are high, which harms the U.S. economy. All in all, Bush
has served Bin Laden's purposes very well. Another four years, and it
could be the end of America's global dominance.

"jak163" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 20:18:43 GMT, "Michael McKelvy"
wrote:


"jak163" wrote in message
. ..
People:

Whoever you want to win tomorrow, don't neglect to vote. And make
sure you urge everyone you know to vote. It's a democracy--let's make
it count.

And try not to think about how much OBL's recent tape sounded like
Democrat
talking points.

I think Bin Laden wants Bush. He's a smart man, and he must know that
it will help Bush to appear to oppose him in the election. I think
9/11 had to be intended as a provocation--what good would it do him if
we just went after him covertly? It was like the assassination of
Franz Ferdinand. If Austria had just gone after the Black Hand, the
Habsburg Empire would have retained its hold on Serbia. With World
War I, the Habsburg Empire was destroyed.

In response to 9/11, we've taken out Saddam, who headed a secular
regime Bin Laden opposed, isolated ourselves from the world, and
pinned down all our military resources without reducing Al Qaeda's
personnel on net.

Just most of their leadership.

The UN is in tatters and we could be on the verge
of a nuclear war with Iran, which could escalate to include Israel.

You think Iran is going to Nuke us?

Oil prices are high, which harms the U.S. economy. All in all, Bush
has served Bin Laden's purposes very well. Another four years, and it
could be the end of America's global dominance.

Riiiiiigggghhht.

"jak163" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 20:18:43 GMT, "Michael McKelvy"
wrote:


"jak163" wrote in message
. ..
People:

Whoever you want to win tomorrow, don't neglect to vote. And make
sure you urge everyone you know to vote. It's a democracy--let's make
it count.

And try not to think about how much OBL's recent tape sounded like
Democrat
talking points.

I think Bin Laden wants Bush. He's a smart man, and he must know that
it will help Bush to appear to oppose him in the election. I think
9/11 had to be intended as a provocation--what good would it do him if
we just went after him covertly? It was like the assassination of
Franz Ferdinand. If Austria had just gone after the Black Hand, the
Habsburg Empire would have retained its hold on Serbia. With World
War I, the Habsburg Empire was destroyed.

In response to 9/11, we've taken out Saddam, who headed a secular
regime Bin Laden opposed, isolated ourselves from the world, and
pinned down all our military resources without reducing Al Qaeda's
personnel on net. The UN is in tatters and we could be on the verge
of a nuclear war with Iran, which could escalate to include Israel.
Oil prices are high, which harms the U.S. economy. All in all, Bush
has served Bin Laden's purposes very well. Another four years, and it
could be the end of America's global dominance.

Bush has crimped their fundraising, wiped out
their training camps and caught or killed abut 2/3 of his senior leaders.
The only reason he would want Bush is if
he felt had a reasonable chance for a massive nuclear or
dirty bomb attack on Washington, whereby he would wipe him out.
He would love to get him. Now, if he felt that
it wasn't doable, he would want Kerry for 8 years
so he could quietly reestablish his assets.

"George M. Middius" wrote in message
...


Clyde Slick said:

Bush has crimped their fundraising, wiped out
their training camps and caught or killed abut 2/3 of his senior
leaders.

I thought you said W doesn't "micromanage". Now you're giving him
credit for things he doesn't understand, didn't plan, and certainly
didn't participate in.

This happened under his leadership and general direction.

So did the disaster with the missing 340 tons of high explosives, the
disgraceful misconduct in Abu Ghraib and other places, and the
wrongful incursions on civil rights ever since 9/11.




You snipped what I said about Abu Ghirab. He is not responsible
for a particular group of misbehaving soldiers. As far as the weapons,
we don't know what happened, whether they were really there, and if so,
when and under what circumstances they disappeared, or even
that they did disappear. As far as the Patriot Act, that one is a legitimate
area of discussion,as it is a Presidential initiative.

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:49:05 -0500, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:

Bush has crimped their fundraising, wiped out
their training camps and caught or killed abut 2/3 of his senior leaders.

Bush has claimed this on the campaign trail but the Pentagon has
conceded it hasn't made any progress against Al Qaeda.

"George M. Middius" wrote in message
...


Clyde Slick said:

Bush has crimped their fundraising, wiped out
their training camps and caught or killed abut 2/3 of his senior
leaders.

I thought you said W doesn't "micromanage". Now you're giving him
credit for things he doesn't understand, didn't plan, and certainly
didn't participate in.

This happened under his leadership and general direction.

So did the disaster with the missing 340 tons of high explosives, the
disgraceful misconduct in Abu Ghraib and other places, and the
wrongful incursions on civil rights ever since 9/11.


But not by his specific direction.

"jak163" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:49:05 -0500, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:

Bush has crimped their fundraising, wiped out
their training camps and caught or killed abut 2/3 of his senior leaders.

Bush has claimed this on the campaign trail but the Pentagon has
conceded it hasn't made any progress against Al Qaeda.

Can you supply the specific quote in context?

Having killed or captured most of their leadership, frozen assets and
reduced OBL to video threats rather than actual attacks sounds like progress
to me.

"Clyde Slick" said:

I still vote for KT88s PP in triode. Absolute winner.

KT66's PP in triode

An attractive runner-up.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

"Michael McKelvy" said:

The UN is in tatters and we could be on the verge
of a nuclear war with Iran, which could escalate to include Israel.

You think Iran is going to Nuke us?

Israel is within their reach.
If Israel is attacked, the US will (have to) react.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Michael McKelvy wrote:

"jak163" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 20:18:43 GMT, "Michael McKelvy"
wrote:


"jak163" wrote in message
...

People:

Whoever you want to win tomorrow, don't neglect to vote. And make
sure you urge everyone you know to vote. It's a democracy--let's make
it count.

And try not to think about how much OBL's recent tape sounded like
Democrat
talking points.

I think Bin Laden wants Bush. He's a smart man, and he must know that
it will help Bush to appear to oppose him in the election. I think
9/11 had to be intended as a provocation--what good would it do him if
we just went after him covertly? It was like the assassination of
Franz Ferdinand. If Austria had just gone after the Black Hand, the
Habsburg Empire would have retained its hold on Serbia. With World
War I, the Habsburg Empire was destroyed.

In response to 9/11, we've taken out Saddam, who headed a secular
regime Bin Laden opposed, isolated ourselves from the world, and
pinned down all our military resources without reducing Al Qaeda's
personnel on net.


Just most of their leadership.

The UN is in tatters and we could be on the verge

of a nuclear war with Iran, which could escalate to include Israel.


You think Iran is going to Nuke us?


Oil prices are high, which harms the U.S. economy.A ll in all, Bush
has served Bin Laden's purposes very well. Another four years, and it
could be the end of America's global dominance.


Riiiiiigggghhht.



And the retard snaps back : "Riiiiiigggghhht."

jak163 writes:
"In response to 9/11, we've taken out Saddam, who headed a secular
regime Bin Laden opposed, isolated ourselves from the world, and
pinned down all our military resources without reducing Al Qaeda's
personnel on net. .. All in all, Bush has served Bin Laden's purposes
very well."

And the retard goes "Duh! riiiiiiiighghtghtght!"

Un****ingbelievable.

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 07:50:17 GMT, "Michael McKelvy"
wrote:


"jak163" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:49:05 -0500, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:

Bush has crimped their fundraising, wiped out
their training camps and caught or killed abut 2/3 of his senior leaders.

Bush has claimed this on the campaign trail but the Pentagon has
conceded it hasn't made any progress against Al Qaeda.

Can you supply the specific quote in context?

I can, but to be completely honest, I don't feel like it. It's
election day anyway. It's fine if you choose not to believe this, but
if you do a little checking it won't take long to find it.

Having killed or captured most of their leadership, frozen assets and
reduced OBL to video threats rather than actual attacks sounds like progress
to me.

Here's coverage of what Osama said in a previously unreleased portion
of the tape:

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-break...3358-8320r.htm

"Among comments not released until Monday, bin Laden said: 'We are
continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of
bankruptcy,' adding it was 'easy for us to provoke and bait this
administration.'

As part of the 'bleed-until-bankruptcy plan,' bin Laden cited a
British estimate that it cost al-Qaida about $500,000 to carry out the
attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, an amount he said paled in comparison with
the costs incurred by the United States.

'Every dollar of al-Qaida defeated a million dollars, by the
permission of Allah, besides the loss of a huge number of jobs,' he
said."


Bush has been doing exactly what bin Laden wants. The worst thing
from bin Laden's point of view would have been a law enforcement
approach, since that would have done no harm to the U.S. and could
have landed him in jail. He doesn't have the capacity to kill us all,
as the administration keeps trying to make people think. But what he
can do is provoke us into imperial overreach, the decline of all
empires eventually. This could then decrease our power in the Middle
East, which is what he is really after.

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 15:16:05 +0200, Fella wrote:

Clyde Slick wrote:

He would love to get him. (OBL)

Bush is OBL's main asset. Hence the reverse
psychology-last-minute-trickery at supporting Kerry. Get them "morans"
united behind the "moranic" leader. Duh!

If I were a conspiracy theorist, I would say he does seem to serve
Bush's purposes much better on the loose than if he had been captured.
Capturing him would have given him only a temporary boost in the
polls:

http://img69.exs.cx/img69/7638/aprov...lert_chart.gif

But now he has him as a perpetual Emmanuel Goldstein to use for two
minutes hate at any notice. This distracts the floundering middle and
working classes while allowing him to cut taxes for the wealthy, hack
away at basic domestic services, and enrich a clique of businesses
with inside connections who contribute to his party and serve as a
Republican farm system.

The dynamics fit right into the argument in John Hobson's Imperialism.

Fella wrote:

And the retard goes "Duh! riiiiiiiighghtghtght!"

Un****ingbelievable.

Welcome to R.A.O. Mikey's just like that.

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
"Michael McKelvy" said:

The UN is in tatters and we could be on the verge
of a nuclear war with Iran, which could escalate to include Israel.

You think Iran is going to Nuke us?

Israel is within their reach.
If Israel is attacked, the US will (have to) react.

If Iran attacked Israel, Iran would be reduced to dust in minutes. The
Israelis have their own nukes and would not hesitate to respond.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Michael McKelvy wrote:


Sander deWaal" wrote in message
.. .
"Michael McKelvy" said:

The UN is in tatters and we could be on the verge
of a nuclear war with Iran, which could escalate to include Israel.

You think Iran is going to Nuke us?

Israel is within their reach.
If Israel is attacked, the US will (have to) react.

If Iran attacked Israel, Iran would be reduced to dust in minutes. The
Israelis have their own nukes and would not hesitate to respond.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "



And according to most accounts, Israel has at least 100, if not more. That
said, the irrational hatred of the mullahs in Iran may tempt them if they are
allowed to proceed with their nuclear weapon development program.


Bruce J. Richman

"Fella" wrote in message
...
Michael McKelvy wrote:

"jak163" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 20:18:43 GMT, "Michael McKelvy"
wrote:


"jak163" wrote in message
m...

People:

Whoever you want to win tomorrow, don't neglect to vote. And make
sure you urge everyone you know to vote. It's a democracy--let's make
it count.

And try not to think about how much OBL's recent tape sounded like
Democrat
talking points.

I think Bin Laden wants Bush. He's a smart man, and he must know that
it will help Bush to appear to oppose him in the election. I think
9/11 had to be intended as a provocation--what good would it do him if
we just went after him covertly? It was like the assassination of
Franz Ferdinand. If Austria had just gone after the Black Hand, the
Habsburg Empire would have retained its hold on Serbia. With World
War I, the Habsburg Empire was destroyed.

In response to 9/11, we've taken out Saddam, who headed a secular
regime Bin Laden opposed, isolated ourselves from the world, and
pinned down all our military resources without reducing Al Qaeda's
personnel on net.


Just most of their leadership.

The UN is in tatters and we could be on the verge

of a nuclear war with Iran, which could escalate to include Israel.


You think Iran is going to Nuke us?


Oil prices are high, which harms the U.S. economy.A ll in all, Bush
has served Bin Laden's purposes very well. Another four years, and it
could be the end of America's global dominance.


Riiiiiigggghhht.

And the retard snaps back : "Riiiiiigggghhht."

jak163 writes:
"In response to 9/11, we've taken out Saddam, who headed a secular
regime Bin Laden opposed, isolated ourselves from the world, and
pinned down all our military resources without reducing Al Qaeda's
personnel on net. .. All in all, Bush has served Bin Laden's purposes very
well."

And the retard goes "Duh! riiiiiiiighghtghtght!"

Un****ingbelievable.

What's unbelievable is the idea that Bin Laden wants Bush, or that Bush has
served his purposes. Was it Bin Laden's purpose to have most of his leaders
dead or captured? I don't think so. Anybody who thinks Bin Laden's net
personnel have not been reduced is simply smoking crack.

BTW, **** you.

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
"Michael McKelvy" said:

The UN is in tatters and we could be on the verge
of a nuclear war with Iran, which could escalate to include Israel.

You think Iran is going to Nuke us?

Israel is within their reach.
If Israel is attacked, the US will (have to) react.


I think Iran is more likely to arm a suitable proxy with nukes,
for that purpose. They get plausible deniability, and insulation from
immediate retaliation, as Israel needs to be sure of the source,
before responding.

"jak163" wrote in message
...

If I were a conspiracy theorist, I would say he does seem to serve
Bush's purposes much better on the loose than if he had been captured.
Capturing him would have given him only a temporary boost in the
polls:

http://img69.exs.cx/img69/7638/aprov...lert_chart.gif

But now he has him as a perpetual Emmanuel Goldstein to use for two
minutes hate at any notice. This distracts the floundering middle and
working classes while allowing him to cut taxes for the wealthy, hack
away at basic domestic services, and enrich a clique of businesses
with inside connections who contribute to his party and serve as a
Republican farm system,


Like you said, if you were a conspiracy theorist.

"George M. Middius" wrote in message
...


Clyde Slick said:

I think Iran is more likely to arm a suitable proxy with nukes,
for that purpose. They get plausible deniability, and insulation from
immediate retaliation, as Israel needs to be sure of the source,
before responding.

Who the **** would be a nuclear proxy of Iran? Libya?


Terrorists of various sizes and shapes

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:34:08 -0500, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:

Like you said, if you were a conspiracy theorist.

Heh.

Drudge has got OH tied, but Kerry ahead in WI, MI, NH, PA and FL.

"jak163" wrote in message
...


...

Today, we lack metrics to know if we are winning or losing the global
war on terror. Are we capturing, killing or deterring and dissuading
more terrorists every day than the madrassas and the radical clerics
are recruiting, training and deploying against us?


You also havbe to consider funding, the ability to acquire WMD and
the ability to mount operations. It's a lot more than a numbers game.
And it is exttremely difficult to quantify a scorecard.

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:55:47 -0500, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:

"jak163" wrote in message
.. .


...

Today, we lack metrics to know if we are winning or losing the global
war on terror. Are we capturing, killing or deterring and dissuading
more terrorists every day than the madrassas and the radical clerics
are recruiting, training and deploying against us?


You also havbe to consider funding, the ability to acquire WMD and
the ability to mount operations. It's a lot more than a numbers game.
And it is exttremely difficult to quantify a scorecard.

That's quoted material from the Rumsfeld memo.

Michael McKelvy wrote:

What's unbelievable is the idea that Bin Laden wants Bush, or that Bush has
served his purposes. Was it Bin Laden's purpose to have most of his leaders
dead or captured? I don't think so. Anybody who thinks Bin Laden's net
personnel have not been reduced is simply smoking crack.

obl would have no problems whatsoever in recruiting new net personel and
"leaders" as tend to call. To me they are a bunch of crazed religious
crackheads, worst then real crackheads per se, and they are a dime a dozen.



BTW, **** you.



Now now you "get-a-brain-moran" how many times did your mother instruct
you to keep your trap shut while masturbating? The answer probably is:
"to many" ..

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 10:21:54 +0200, Fella wrote:


Thus spake ze the remote-know-it-all, the excellency of
also-knows-the-future, the glorious god-like creature of the american
"get-a-brain-morans" ..

Hmmm. What language is this then?

paul packer wrote:
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 10:21:54 +0200, Fella wrote:



Thus spake ze the remote-know-it-all, the excellency of
also-knows-the-future, the glorious god-like creature of the american
"get-a-brain-morans" ..


Hmmm. What language is this then?

Fella-ish.

jak163 wrote:

Bush has been doing exactly what bin Laden wants.

I think the truth is far uglier than most peolpe would believe.

As long as bin Laden is alive and at large, Bush can keep the
fight for him alive as well as the terror alert levels and
so on... It's actually not in his interest politically to
kill bin Laden.

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 11:12:16 +0000, Dodge McRodgered
wrote:


If Bush gets back into the driving seat, we're all dead..

I think you're all dead.

"Fella" wrote in message
...
Michael McKelvy wrote:

What's unbelievable is the idea that Bin Laden wants Bush, or that Bush
has served his purposes. Was it Bin Laden's purpose to have most of his
leaders dead or captured? I don't think so. Anybody who thinks Bin
Laden's net personnel have not been reduced is simply smoking crack.

obl would have no problems whatsoever in recruiting new net personel and
"leaders" as tend to call. To me they are a bunch of crazed religious
crackheads,

BTW, **** you.

Now now you "get-a-brain-moran" how many times did your mother instruct
you to keep your trap shut while masturbating? The answer probably is: "to
many" ..

You're really not in a position to be correcting grammar when you make
mistakes like "anyways" or "worst then real crackheads per se, and they are
a dime a dozen."

That should be "worse than."

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 13:23:07 +0000, Dodge McRodgered
wrote:

"paul packer" emitted :

If Bush gets back into the driving seat, we're all dead..

I think you're all dead.

I can't tell you how disappointing this is.

Try.

I am not a native english speaker you ****. I can twist and churn and
turn this language any way I want, I can use any dialect I want. What's
important to me is that I get my message across. And I DO get it across
since you get deep-****ed by it so much that you come back begging for ore.

And typos are one thing, REPEATEDLY writing "to much" and "to little",
etc, when you mean to write "too much" is another! YOU'VE LIVED ALL YOUR
WORTHLESS, CLUELESS, MEANINGLESS butt ****ed life in an environment
where ENGLISH is used, it is YOUR MOTHER TONGUE ferchrissakes and you
still do not even know the difference between "to" "two" and "too" you
clueless DUH!mb**** fruitcake.

Now there suck on that for a while. Come back for more when you are done.

Michael McKelvy wrote:

You're really not in a position to be correcting grammar when you make
mistakes like "anyways" or "worst then real crackheads per se, and they are
a dime a dozen."

That should be "worse than."