Having been away from audio for a long time, I am now looking to
upgrade from KEF 104ab, an speaker, probably similar to Spendor and
Rogers models. I would prefer a floorstander, but not much larger
footprint than my present speakers (ie, no Quads or Maggies). This is
for 2-channel stereo, not home theater.

Please suggest suitable brands and models. Friends have suggeted
Spendor, Proac and Dynaudio. However, I am confused by various "series"
within a brands (don't recall that happening when I shopped last time
but could just be my faulty memory!), eg, should I be looking at
Contour or something else in dynaudio?

All comments and advice appreciated.

In article , Newbie
wrote:

Having been away from audio for a long time, I am now looking to
upgrade from KEF 104ab, an speaker, probably similar to Spendor and
Rogers models. I would prefer a floorstander, but not much larger
footprint than my present speakers (ie, no Quads or Maggies). This is
for 2-channel stereo, not home theater.

Please suggest suitable brands and models. Friends have suggeted
Spendor, Proac and Dynaudio. However, I am confused by various "series"
within a brands (don't recall that happening when I shopped last time
but could just be my faulty memory!), eg, should I be looking at
Contour or something else in dynaudio?

All comments and advice appreciated.

Manufacturer websites should help you sort out the relative aims of the
different model series. You want something that can go more or less
where your old speakers went? The Contour series has a floorstander. The
other brands mentioned are worth investigating.

Stephen

PS Quad makes dynamic floorstanders, too.

Manufacturer websites should help you sort out the relative aims of the
different model series.

Thanks Stephen. I have glanced at web sites but they never say "Our
Concerto series is for serious music lovers and Sonata series for
newscasts"! Every description, even of lower items is rosy. I can't
always cut through that maze. It is best to get advice from other
audiophiles.

You want something that can go more or less where your old speakers
went?

They should of course improve upon the 104ab's, significantly,
otherwise why change? However, they'd be for serious classical music if
that is what you meant. Space limitations prevent me considering much
larger models. I also don't want to bother with stands anymore. Hence
floorstanders with small/moderate footprint.

PS Quad makes dynamic floorstanders, too.

Thanks.

In article , Newbie
wrote:

Manufacturer websites should help you sort out the relative aims of the
different model series.

Thanks Stephen. I have glanced at web sites but they never say "Our
Concerto series is for serious music lovers and Sonata series for
newscasts"! Every description, even of lower items is rosy. I can't
always cut through that maze. It is best to get advice from other
audiophiles.

Good point! You might choose different speakers for the heft of an
orchestra and the thump of dance music even if the technical demands are
similar.

You want something that can go more or less where your old speakers
went?

They should of course improve upon the 104ab's, significantly,
otherwise why change? However, they'd be for serious classical music if
that is what you meant. Space limitations prevent me considering much
larger models. I also don't want to bother with stands anymore. Hence
floorstanders with small/moderate footprint.

It's hard to say if anything would be better than what you have. A
friend of a friend classical listener has Sonus-Faber speakers. Another
speaker with classical appeal is the Allison Three, but that requires
corner placement.

I suffer along with Quads! but they do take up some room.

Stephen

"Newbie" wrote in message
...
Having been away from audio for a long time, I am now looking to
upgrade from KEF 104ab, an speaker, probably similar to Spendor and
Rogers models. I would prefer a floorstander, but not much larger
footprint than my present speakers (ie, no Quads or Maggies). This is
for 2-channel stereo, not home theater.

Please suggest suitable brands and models. Friends have suggeted
Spendor, Proac and Dynaudio. However, I am confused by various "series"
within a brands (don't recall that happening when I shopped last time
but could just be my faulty memory!), eg, should I be looking at
Contour or something else in dynaudio?

All comments and advice appreciated.

My choice would be for Dynaudio and Proac since they use the top 2 drivers
made IMO Dynaudio uses it own brand and Proac uses drivers sourced from
Scan-Speak.

An alternative that would give you at least as much bang for your buck, is
to look into kit speakers. There are several that require nothing more than
a screwdriver to assemble. Of these my personal favorite is the Thor which
uses drivers from a company by the name of SEAS. They are available through
www.madisound. you can find complete details and a review of hits speaker
which was designed by Joe D'appolito, one of the foremost designers in the
business. If you're looking to spend in the neighborhood of $1500.00 U.S.
they are worth a look.

Good Luck with whatever you choose.

Michael McKelvy wrote:

My choice would be for Dynaudio and Proac since they use the top 2
drivers made

Do you know which series within each model would be best to look at?
Maybe I have been out of this game for too long but the situation
confuses me. For example, Dynaudio site has Audience, Contour,
Confidence, and Evidence! Every write-up is superlative, leaving no
hint of what is the series aimed at. If you know Dynaudio (or proac)
range, please help!

"AKT" wrote in message
...
Michael McKelvy wrote:

My choice would be for Dynaudio and Proac since they use the top 2
drivers made

Do you know which series within each model would be best to look at?
Maybe I have been out of this game for too long but the situation
confuses me. For example, Dynaudio site has Audience, Contour,
Confidence, and Evidence! Every write-up is superlative, leaving no
hint of what is the series aimed at. If you know Dynaudio (or proac)
range, please help!

My experience with Dynaudio is more with the DIY end of things, so If it
were me in your place I'd look and listen to what was in my price range.
The same applies to Proac. The Dynaudio Audience 122 resembles the Dynaudio
TWYNN which was sold as a kit and had a very spacious and detailed sound,
with good bass down into the 30's.

My experience with Dynaudio is more with the DIY end of things, so If it were me in your place I'd look and listen to what was
in my price range. The same applies to Proac. The Dynaudio Audience 122 resembles the Dynaudio TWYNN which was sold as a kit
and had a very spacious and detailed sound, with good bass down into the 30's.

I am becoming a bore about mine, as people here will attest. (A 52SE.)

They are among the best speakers I've ever heard and are _perfect_ for
my absolute _love_ of high quality treble.

I've had them a few months now and I still look at them in kinda
awed reverence when I think what they're capable of.

It is astonishing (to me).

NP: All About Eve: "The Pearl Fishermen", "Road To Your Soul".


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.fleetie.demon.co.uk

Michael McKelvy wrote:

My choice would be for Dynaudio and Proac since they use the top 2
drivers made

Do you know which series within each model would be best to look at?
Maybe I have been out of this game for too long but the situation
confuses me. For example, Dynaudio site has Audience, Contour,
Confidence, and Evidence! Every write-up is superlative, leaving no
hint of what is the series aimed at. If you know Dynaudio (or proac)
range, please help!

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:06:44 GMT, Newbie wrote:

Michael McKelvy wrote:

My choice would be for Dynaudio and Proac since they use the top 2
drivers made

Do you know which series within each model would be best to look at?
Maybe I have been out of this game for too long but the situation
confuses me. For example, Dynaudio site has Audience, Contour,
Confidence, and Evidence! Every write-up is superlative, leaving no
hint of what is the series aimed at. If you know Dynaudio (or proac)
range, please help!

The 'basic' Audience series has some excellent speakers, the 52SE in
particular being a fine unit. Pair it with a good sub such as a REL
Stadium, and you won't go far wrong. If you prefer a floorstander,
then the bigger Spendors are superbly natural, as are the Proac
Response series.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Newbie wrote in message ...
Michael McKelvy wrote:

My choice would be for Dynaudio and Proac since they use the top 2
drivers made

Do you know which series within each model would be best to look at?
Maybe I have been out of this game for too long but the situation
confuses me. For example, Dynaudio site has Audience, Contour,
Confidence, and Evidence! Every write-up is superlative, leaving no
hint of what is the series aimed at. If you know Dynaudio (or proac)
range, please help!


"Ranges" often equate to "price brackets", I believe, price overlaps
are probably quite rare. I'm a Dynaudio user, I have just upgraded
from the Audience 42 to the Contour 1.3mk2 (now deleted,there's also a
1.3SE and 1.4, though not sure if the 1.3SE is still current either).
I have to say the Contours are by a mile the biggest improvement I've
ever made to my system over 20 years. At times they are simply
breathtaking. I got them second hand, mint for £675 and I believe you
can get them about £899 new (if you can find any). In somes respects,
it's hard to imagine how a speaker could be any better. I'd recommend
them without hesitation. They're stand mounters by the way, so factor
in about £100 for stands. (I've never quite understood why people
insist on floorstanders.)

"Keiron" wrote in message
om...
Newbie wrote in message
...
Michael McKelvy wrote:

My choice would be for Dynaudio and Proac since they use the top 2
drivers made

Do you know which series within each model would be best to look at?
Maybe I have been out of this game for too long but the situation
confuses me. For example, Dynaudio site has Audience, Contour,
Confidence, and Evidence! Every write-up is superlative, leaving no
hint of what is the series aimed at. If you know Dynaudio (or proac)
range, please help!


"Ranges" often equate to "price brackets", I believe, price overlaps
are probably quite rare. I'm a Dynaudio user, I have just upgraded
from the Audience 42 to the Contour 1.3mk2 (now deleted,there's also a
1.3SE and 1.4, though not sure if the 1.3SE is still current either).
I have to say the Contours are by a mile the biggest improvement I've
ever made to my system over 20 years. At times they are simply
breathtaking. I got them second hand, mint for £675 and I believe you
can get them about £899 new (if you can find any). In somes respects,
it's hard to imagine how a speaker could be any better. I'd recommend
them without hesitation. They're stand mounters by the way, so factor
in about £100 for stands. (I've never quite understood why people
insist on floorstanders.)

I suspect they like floorstanders because that kind of money for stands
seems extreme IMO. Since stands have only one function, to raise the
speaker to ear level, spending for that function should be able to be had
for a lot less. If the speaker is a tower type like say the Audience 122,
the elevation is already done.

If you have the money and there is a particular aesthetic you are getting,
go for it, but just to raise the speaker to ear level shouldn't cost that
much IME.

"Newbie" wrote in message
...
Michael McKelvy wrote:

My choice would be for Dynaudio and Proac since they use the top 2
drivers made

Do you know which series within each model would be best to look at?
Maybe I have been out of this game for too long but the situation
confuses me. For example, Dynaudio site has Audience,

I would look at eh Audience 122 since you want floor standing speakers, and
I'm somewhat familiar with them. They are a ported version of a kit speaker
they had designed by Joe D'Appolito, which used their aperiodic vents. I
built a pair and they sounded superb, very open and airy with plenty of
detail and bass into the 30-40Hz range.

With speakers it always best to pick a price range and listen. Nothing else
you do to your system will affect it more.

Contour,
Confidence, and Evidence! Every write-up is superlative, leaving no
hint of what is the series aimed at. If you know Dynaudio (or proac)
range, please help!

With Dynaudio there's almost no such thing as a bad speaker, they make great
drivers and designs.

"Michael McKelvy" wrote

With Dynaudio there's almost no such thing as a bad speaker, they make great drivers and designs.

Yesss.

Does the diminutive Audience 42 use the same *size* bass driver as the 52SE?
If so, I'd like to "see"/hear a 42 cabinet with a 52SE bass unit and tweeter
in it, cos there'd probably be *even less* cabinet contribution, and perhaps
even better imaging, albeit at the expense of a considerable amount of bass.

Even then, if you were prepared to wind the efficiency way down, you might
be able to recover some bass response.


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.fleetie.demon.co.uk

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 20:38:50 GMT, "Fleetie"
wrote:

"Michael McKelvy" wrote

With Dynaudio there's almost no such thing as a bad speaker, they make great drivers and designs.

Yesss.

Does the diminutive Audience 42 use the same *size* bass driver as the 52SE?

No, it doesn't.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Newbie wrote:

Having been away from audio for a long time, I am now looking to
upgrade from KEF 104ab, an speaker, probably similar to Spendor and
Rogers models. I would prefer a floorstander, but not much larger
footprint than my present speakers (ie, no Quads or Maggies). This is
for 2-channel stereo, not home theater.

Please suggest suitable brands and models. Friends have suggeted
Spendor, Proac and Dynaudio. However, I am confused by various "series"
within a brands (don't recall that happening when I shopped last time
but could just be my faulty memory!), eg, should I be looking at
Contour or something else in dynaudio?

All comments and advice appreciated.

I would advise a Sonus Faber. They get their drivers from dynaudio,
scanspeak, etc. Their work is *very* high quality and *very* good
looking. Although loyal to the source (ie, "hifi") their philosophy of
the human ear being the "strictest judge" and that they see home audio
reproduction as an end in itself, and as a form of artistic expression
by itself makes them stand out from all the rest, IMHO. You will get
very sweet and musical sounds when matched with the appropriate gear.

Two more advises:

1) Ignore the "all cd players, amps, speakers, wires, etc, sound the
same" type of borgs lurking around here. Just believe in your own ears.

2) Steer away from sonus faber if you are mostly into heavy metal, hard
rock, etc angry type of music.

In article ,
Fella wrote:
1) Ignore the "all cd players, amps, speakers, wires, etc, sound the
same" type of borgs lurking around here. Just believe in your own ears.

I'd love to know who you think reckons all speakers sound the same?
I've never seen this in print anywhere - the writer would be laughed out
of court.

I'd caution against just relying on your ears without a reference. The
room used for listening in has a far greater influence on the final sound
than any competent amp or CD etc. So what may sound fine in a shop at a
quick audition may well disappoint at home.

Also, IMHO, apart from maximum SPL, a competent speaker should be equally
at home with any type of music - and speech. If a speaker sounds
'impressive' on one type of music more than another, it's a poor design.

--
*A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Fella wrote:

1) Ignore the "all cd players, amps, speakers, wires, etc, sound the
same" type of borgs lurking around here. Just believe in your own ears.


I'd love to know who you think reckons all speakers sound the same?

Well if some have the audacity to think that all cd players and amps
sound the same why not also speakers?

What about it howie? With level matching and 8 hours a day pink noise
listening subjected to the strictest iron curtain double blind tests you
think you would get a sonus faber sound the same as a, say, dynaudio ?


I've never seen this in print anywhere - the writer would be laughed out
of court.

Yes but he would come back.


I'd caution against just relying on your ears without a reference. The
room used for listening in has a far greater influence on the final sound
than any competent amp or CD etc. So what may sound fine in a shop at a
quick audition may well disappoint at home.

You are correct. I should have advised the newbie that (s)he should have
home auditioned any equipment for at least a week before any purchase
decision. That's what I do actually.



Also, IMHO, ... If a speaker sounds
'impressive' on one type of music more than another, it's a poor design.


Well I am not saying that for instance that some death metal vehemence
would sound bad with *spesifically* a sonus faber (it would sound bad
eminating from any old speaker, it wants to sound bad, yes?). What I am
saying is that its just a waste of money and abilities of the sonus
faber speakers to employ them on that kind of material. Sonus faber is
designed to bring out all the subtle inner details, the beauty, the
musicality, of a given piece of music, that IMHO, does not exist in
angry music. And since such music is preferably heard LOUD and with lots
of distortion, a sonus faber would be an overkill, as it were. A pair of
cremona costs at least three times as much as a pair of some average
cervin wega!s which are designed to give what the listeners or angry
music want.

In article ,
Fella wrote:
I'd love to know who you think reckons all speakers sound the same?

Well if some have the audacity to think that all cd players and amps
sound the same why not also speakers?

I think the expression would be all *competent* cd players and amps will
sound pretty close. Of course, it's easy to make an amp or CD player that
sounds different and impress the gullible.

What about it howie? With level matching and 8 hours a day pink noise
listening subjected to the strictest iron curtain double blind tests you
think you would get a sonus faber sound the same as a, say, dynaudio ?

Err, you're making a common mistake. You disagree with one point from a
person and therefore everything else he says is rubbish to. Not a good
idea.

Do you really think equipment makers don't make use of careful
measurements - even your favourite or most hated ones? Of course they do.
That doesn't mean to say they'll act on them, though.

snip

Also, IMHO, ... If a speaker sounds 'impressive' on one type of
music more than another, it's a poor design.


Well I am not saying that for instance that some death metal vehemence
would sound bad with *spesifically* a sonus faber (it would sound bad
eminating from any old speaker, it wants to sound bad, yes?). What I am
saying is that its just a waste of money and abilities of the sonus
faber speakers to employ them on that kind of material.

That's a bit elitist? Some here can remember when any kind of 'pop' music
was looked down on by many.

Sonus faber is designed to bring out all the subtle inner details, the
beauty, the musicality, of a given piece of music, that IMHO, does not
exist in angry music. And since such music is preferably heard LOUD and
with lots of distortion, a sonus faber would be an overkill, as it
were. A pair of cremona costs at least three times as much as a pair of
some average cervin wega!s which are designed to give what the
listeners or angry music want.

Any decent speaker is designed to reproduce its input accurately. Some
work better than others at this, of course.
One which reveals details 'perfectly' will continue to do so with
anything. A honky bass and shrieking treble type one might impress on some
things, but disappoint on others. Many these days also feed their AV
system through their main speakers, so don't forget to check on speech.
That can be most revealing.

--
*Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

From: "Dave Plowman (News)"
Date: 10/27/2004 7:38 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
Fella wrote:
I'd love to know who you think reckons all speakers sound the same?

Well if some have the audacity to think that all cd players and amps
sound the same why not also speakers?

I think the expression would be all *competent* cd players and amps will
sound pretty close.

Depends on who you ask. Many say the same.

Of course, it's easy to make an amp or CD player that
sounds different and impress the gullible.

So EQ is strictly for the gullible?



What about it howie? With level matching and 8 hours a day pink noise
listening subjected to the strictest iron curtain double blind tests you
think you would get a sonus faber sound the same as a, say, dynaudio ?

Err, you're making a common mistake. You disagree with one point from a
person and therefore everything else he says is rubbish to. Not a good
idea.


Blanket dismisals of Howard are born from much more than just one point of
disagreement. I think it is a fair and reasonable position that most of his
opinions on audio are rubbish.



Do you really think equipment makers don't make use of careful
measurements - even your favourite or most hated ones? Of course they do.
That doesn't mean to say they'll act on them, though.

snip

Also, IMHO, ... If a speaker sounds 'impressive' on one type of
music more than another, it's a poor design.


Well I am not saying that for instance that some death metal vehemence
would sound bad with *spesifically* a sonus faber (it would sound bad
eminating from any old speaker, it wants to sound bad, yes?). What I am
saying is that its just a waste of money and abilities of the sonus
faber speakers to employ them on that kind of material.

That's a bit elitist? Some here can remember when any kind of 'pop' music
was looked down on by many.

Agreed.



Sonus faber is designed to bring out all the subtle inner details, the
beauty, the musicality, of a given piece of music, that IMHO, does not
exist in angry music. And since such music is preferably heard LOUD and
with lots of distortion, a sonus faber would be an overkill, as it
were. A pair of cremona costs at least three times as much as a pair of
some average cervin wega!s which are designed to give what the
listeners or angry music want.

Any decent speaker is designed to reproduce its input accurately.

No. Not possible. The input is an electrical signal and the output is sound.
The inherent differences preclude the persuit of this idea.


Some
work better than others at this, of course.
One which reveals details 'perfectly' will continue to do so with
anything. A honky bass and shrieking treble type one might impress on some
things, but disappoint on others. Many these days also feed their AV
system through their main speakers, so don't forget to check on speech.
That can be most revealing.

--
*Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Fella wrote:



Well I am not saying that for instance that some death metal vehemence
would sound bad with *spesifically* a sonus faber (it would sound bad
eminating from any old speaker, it wants to sound bad, yes?). What I am
saying is that its just a waste of money and abilities of the sonus
faber speakers to employ them on that kind of material.


That's a bit elitist?

No, not really. That kind of music is already based on distortion, LOUD
and intimidating sounds, like I said "it wants to sound bad", and it
doesn't have any subtle, inner details or microdynamics...

I got a 1.5 year old.. When I play charlie haden to him (or some
neo-classical turkish jazz, or astor piazzola, whatever) he rolls around
the floor, smile on his face, listening and mumbling.. But once (to
experiment) I put on soundgarden, and another occasion ozzy ozbourne
(just to be sure of the first time behaviour) and on both occasions he
ran out of the room crying. He was sincerely frightened... I don't
think he was "looking down" on that kind of music, or being "elitist" ..
It's just the way that kind of music is. And yes, I'd rather hear
soundgarden from a pair of cervin wegas, then sonus fabers..

"Fella" wrote in message
.. .
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Fella wrote:

1) Ignore the "all cd players, amps, speakers, wires, etc, sound the
same" type of borgs lurking around here. Just believe in your own ears.


I'd love to know who you think reckons all speakers sound the same?

Well if some have the audacity to think that all cd players and amps sound
the same why not also speakers?


First lets deal with falsehood of anybody saying all CD players and amps
sound the same. It is that all CD players working the way tehy are supposed
to sound the same. If you have 2 CD players and one sounds different, one
is either malfunctioning or designed to sound someway other than flat.

Same for amps.

As to speakers, they are the weakest link in the audio chain sinc e they are
subject to room interaction and the fact that designs and drivers ahve gross
differences from manufacturer to manufacturer.



What about it howie? With level matching and 8 hours a day pink noise
listening subjected to the strictest iron curtain double blind tests you
think you would get a sonus faber sound the same as a, say, dynaudio ?


I've never seen this in print anywhere - the writer would be laughed out
of court.

Yes but he would come back.


I'd caution against just relying on your ears without a reference. The
room used for listening in has a far greater influence on the final sound
than any competent amp or CD etc. So what may sound fine in a shop at a
quick audition may well disappoint at home.

You are correct. I should have advised the newbie that (s)he should have
home auditioned any equipment for at least a week before any purchase
decision. That's what I do actually.



Also, IMHO, ... If a speaker sounds
'impressive' on one type of music more than another, it's a poor design.


Well I am not saying that for instance that some death metal vehemence
would sound bad with *spesifically* a sonus faber (it would sound bad
eminating from any old speaker, it wants to sound bad, yes?). What I am
saying is that its just a waste of money and abilities of the sonus faber
speakers to employ them on that kind of material. Sonus faber is designed
to bring out all the subtle inner details, the beauty, the musicality, of
a given piece of music, that IMHO, does not exist in angry music. And
since such music is preferably heard LOUD and with lots of distortion, a
sonus faber would be an overkill, as it were. A pair of cremona costs at
least three times as much as a pair of some average cervin wega!s which
are designed to give what the listeners or angry music want.

Michael McKelvy wrote:




First lets deal with falsehood of anybody saying all CD players and amps
sound the same. It is that all CD players working the way tehy are supposed
to sound the same.



This is just hilarious. He says that it is a falsehood that anynody
says a given, then RIGHT AFTERWARDS he says it himself..!


If you have 2 CD players and one sounds different, one
is either malfunctioning or designed to sound someway other than flat.


Well I sure wouldn't want my CD player to sound flat! I guess I'll go
with the "malfunctioning" ones!



Same for amps.


Thus spake ze god of audio-physics, ze force of knowing it all..
Resistance is futile!

"Fella" wrote in message
.. .
Newbie wrote:

Having been away from audio for a long time, I am now looking to
upgrade from KEF 104ab, an speaker, probably similar to Spendor and
Rogers models. I would prefer a floorstander, but not much larger
footprint than my present speakers (ie, no Quads or Maggies). This is
for 2-channel stereo, not home theater.

Please suggest suitable brands and models. Friends have suggeted
Spendor, Proac and Dynaudio. However, I am confused by various "series"
within a brands (don't recall that happening when I shopped last time
but could just be my faulty memory!), eg, should I be looking at
Contour or something else in dynaudio?

All comments and advice appreciated.

I would advise a Sonus Faber. They get their drivers from dynaudio,
scanspeak, etc. Their work is *very* high quality and *very* good looking.
Although loyal to the source (ie, "hifi") their philosophy of the human
ear being the "strictest judge" and that they see home audio reproduction
as an end in itself, and as a form of artistic expression by itself makes
them stand out from all the rest, IMHO. You will get very sweet and
musical sounds when matched with the appropriate gear.

Two more advises:

1) Ignore the "all cd players, amps, speakers, wires, etc, sound the same"
type of borgs lurking around here. Just believe in your own ears.

2) Steer away from sonus faber if you are mostly into heavy metal, hard
rock, etc angry type of music.

The only reason IMO to go with Sonus Faber is looks, since the sound the
impart can be gotten in other brands or in kits.

There is one other speaker I would include in a recommended list, and that
is the VSM from Merlin. The last time I saw one it was $5000.00 U.S. and
used a Top of the Line Dynaudio Tweeter and a Scan-Speak 7" midwoofer.
Absolutely beautiful look and sound.

Michael McKelvy wrote:

The only reason IMO to go with Sonus Faber is looks, since the sound the
impart can be gotten in other brands or in kits.

"As to speakers, they are the weakest link in the audio chain sinc e
they are subject to room interaction and the fact that designs and
drivers ahve gross differences from manufacturer to manufacturer"

Newbie wrote:

: Friends have suggeted Spendor, Proac and Dynaudio.

Those are well known names by now but I remember when each was news to
me and I suspected the salesman was trying to pull some trick.

Anyway, does anybody know any unknown / less well known speaker brands
that are of equal or better quality and much better value (ie, less
expensive) than these?

RPS

In article , RPS
wrote:

Newbie wrote:

: Friends have suggeted Spendor, Proac and Dynaudio.

Those are well known names by now but I remember when each was news to
me and I suspected the salesman was trying to pull some trick.

Anyway, does anybody know any unknown / less well known speaker brands
that are of equal or better quality and much better value (ie, less
expensive) than these?

Triangle.

http://www.triangle-fr.com/welcome-2002.htm

Stephen

RPS wrote:


Newbie wrote:

: Friends have suggeted Spendor, Proac and Dynaudio.

Those are well known names by now but I remember when each was news to
me and I suspected the salesman was trying to pull some trick.

Anyway, does anybody know any unknown / less well known speaker brands
that are of equal or better quality and much better value (ie, less
expensive) than these?

RPS


A brand well known to audiophiles but perhaps not to you would be Vandersteen.
Their speakers are reasonably priced, have terrific sound for the money, and
among other things, have excellent bass considering their cost/size and are
time aligned for better soundstaging ability. Well worth checking out.


Bruce J. Richman

"RPS" wrote in message
...
Newbie wrote:

: Friends have suggeted Spendor, Proac and Dynaudio.

Those are well known names by now but I remember when each was news to
me and I suspected the salesman was trying to pull some trick.

Anyway, does anybody know any unknown / less well known speaker brands
that are of equal or better quality and much better value (ie, less
expensive) than these?


Some (mebbe not all) of the Eltax brand get a very good rating in some of
the comix and are as cheap as chips. They are Danish and appear to be very
well made.

I got a pair of 'Millenium 100s' off ebay for a tenner (+ P&P) and they are
quite excellent, see:


http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...ow/eltax01.jpg

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...ow/eltax02.jpg

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...ow/eltax03.jpg

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...ow/eltax04.jpg

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...ow/eltax05.jpg

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...ow/eltax06.jpg

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...ow/eltax07.jpg

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...ow/eltax07.jpg


(Sorry - haven't got time to sort them out, so I posted them all!)

Hint of Jamo Concert 8 in the shape of them...???

"RPS" wrote in message


Newbie wrote:

Friends have suggeted Spendor, Proac and Dynaudio.

Lesser-known in the US, better-known in Europe.

Those are well known names by now but I remember when each was news to
me and I suspected the salesman was trying to pull some trick.

Anyway, does anybody know any unknown / less well known speaker brands
that are of equal or better quality and much better value (ie, less
expensive) than these?

Given that many consumer loudspeaker brands include several models that
pretend to be recording studio monitors, consider learning about the real
thing. In many cases the real thing costs no more, and can easily outperform
the imitations.

Brands of true-and-genuine recording studio monitors:

Mackie, KRK, JBL Pro, Alesis, Tannoy, Dynaudio, Behringer, Event, M-Audio,
NHT Pro, Samson, Roland, Tapco, Nady, ART, Fostex, Yamaha Pro, Wharfdale,
Fostex.... Note that this is an inclusive list, not a list of speakers that
all equally merit serious consideration.

Many of these speakers include power amps, providing a convenient way to
build a minimalized system.

Based on recent listening evaluations, the bang-for-buck leader in studio
monitors could easily be the Behringer B2031A. They would make very gutsy
but nice-sounding speaker/amplifiers for use with a computer system and/or
CD player.

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"RPS" wrote in message


Newbie wrote:

Friends have suggeted Spendor, Proac and Dynaudio.

Lesser-known in the US, better-known in Europe.

Those are well known names by now but I remember when each was news to
me and I suspected the salesman was trying to pull some trick.

Anyway, does anybody know any unknown / less well known speaker brands
that are of equal or better quality and much better value (ie, less
expensive) than these?

Given that many consumer loudspeaker brands include several models that
pretend to be recording studio monitors, consider learning about the real
thing. In many cases the real thing costs no more, and can easily outperform
the imitations.

Brands of true-and-genuine recording studio monitors:

Mackie, KRK, JBL Pro, Alesis, Tannoy, Dynaudio, Behringer, Event, M-Audio,
NHT Pro, Samson, Roland, Tapco, Nady, ART, Fostex, Yamaha Pro, Wharfdale,
Fostex.... Note that this is an inclusive list, not a list of speakers that
all equally merit serious consideration.

Many of these speakers include power amps, providing a convenient way to
build a minimalized system.

Based on recent listening evaluations, the bang-for-buck leader in studio
monitors could easily be the Behringer B2031A. They would make very gutsy
but nice-sounding speaker/amplifiers for use with a computer system and/or
CD player.

Studio monitors would be a bad choice for the OP. He wants a
floorstander roughly equivalent to his KEF 104s and prefers classical
music. Monitors are often meant for tabletop positioning and have
frequency responses bumps to exaggerate recording/production flaws.

One exception (of many) would be the BBC monitors available in the UK by
various makers: Rogers, etc.

Stephen

MINe 109 wrote:

Studio monitors would be a bad choice for the OP. He wants a
floorstander roughly equivalent to his KEF 104s and prefers classical
music. Monitors are often meant for tabletop positioning and have
frequency responses bumps to exaggerate recording/production flaws.

Honestly, he's going to have to look really really hard to find
a better speaker than his 104s. He might look into large planars
or move to full-range electrostatics.

Joseph Oberlander wrote:


MINe 109 wrote:

Studio monitors would be a bad choice for the OP. He wants a
floorstander roughly equivalent to his KEF 104s and prefers classical
music. Monitors are often meant for tabletop positioning and have
frequency responses bumps to exaggerate recording/production flaws.


Honestly, he's going to have to look really really hard to find
a better speaker than his 104s. He might look into large planars
or move to full-range electrostatics.


The higher ProAc ranges are VERY nice with the ribbon tweeters, though I
am quite happy with my Studio 125's, I actually prefer them to the lower
response series, I found them a bit "shouty".

You may also want to consider the Living Voice range (not the horns).

--
Nick

Joseph Oberlander commented

: MINe 109 wrote:
:
: Studio monitors would be a bad choice for the OP. He wants a
: floorstander roughly equivalent to his KEF 104s and prefers classical
: music. Monitors are often meant for tabletop positioning and have
: frequency responses bumps to exaggerate recording/production flaws.
:
: Honestly, he's going to have to look really really hard to find
: a better speaker than his 104s. He might look into large planars
: or move to full-range electrostatics.

You guys are getting off on a tangent here. The OP (and my virtual ears
pricked up, because I own exactly the same model) specifically mentioned Kef
104*ab*, not Kef 104 the much later reference model. Mine are marked "1972"
on the back of the bass drivers ... but I can't afford to upgrade *yet*.

Indeed, no-one has mentioned the later (or latest) Kef models as contenders
until now, I think. Surely they would be a suitable & obvious upgrade?

I've certainly liked the few later (Reference & Q series IIRC) ones I've
heard, and they still seem to take R&D work as seriously as ever.

RdM

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:26:52 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote:

MINe 109 wrote:

Studio monitors would be a bad choice for the OP. He wants a
floorstander roughly equivalent to his KEF 104s and prefers classical
music. Monitors are often meant for tabletop positioning and have
frequency responses bumps to exaggerate recording/production flaws.

Honestly, he's going to have to look really really hard to find
a better speaker than his 104s. He might look into large planars
or move to full-range electrostatics.

I had 104s, and I can assure you that he will have no troble at all in
this regard. Given our new knowledge of his budget, I'd suggest a hard
look at the B&W N804, the Spendor S9 and the JMLab Elektra range. Also
of course the incomparable Quad 988/989 for a completely different
experience.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"MINe 109" wrote in message


Studio monitors would be a bad choice for the OP. He wants a
floorstander roughly equivalent to his KEF 104s and prefers classical
music.

Agreed.

Monitors are often meant for tabletop positioning

But a number of manufacturers on my list such as Dynaudio, JBL Pro, and
Tannoy also make floorstanders.

and have frequency responses bumps to exaggerate recording/production
flaws

Given that my list included about 20 different brands, some do have
intentially peaked up response, most don't.

One exception (of many) would be the BBC monitors available in the UK
by various makers: Rogers, etc.

Like you say, there are many exceptions to the idea that all studio monitors
aren't floorstanders, or that they have deliberately peaked up response.

For example, I've heard the Behringer B2031A speakers that I mentioned,
mounted on speaker stands. They sounded warm and well-balanced, like many
floorstanders. They are also reasonably smooth.

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"MINe 109" wrote in message


Studio monitors would be a bad choice for the OP. He wants a
floorstander roughly equivalent to his KEF 104s and prefers classical
music.

Agreed.

Monitors are often meant for tabletop positioning

But a number of manufacturers on my list such as Dynaudio, JBL Pro, and
Tannoy also make floorstanders.

Dunno if the floorstanding studio monitor is a big market segment.
Haven't noticed any in the pro shops.

The OP has already investigated Dynaudio. IIRC, Tannoys, depending on
the model, favor near-wall placement.

and have frequency responses bumps to exaggerate recording/production
flaws

Given that my list included about 20 different brands, some do have
intentially peaked up response, most don't.

But of course.

One exception (of many) would be the BBC monitors available in the UK
by various makers: Rogers, etc.

Like you say, there are many exceptions to the idea that all studio monitors
aren't floorstanders, or that they have deliberately peaked up response.

For example, I've heard the Behringer B2031A speakers that I mentioned,
mounted on speaker stands. They sounded warm and well-balanced, like many
floorstanders. They are also reasonably smooth.

I enjoy an inexpensive pro-style monitoring system for casual listening
in a room that requires bookshelf positioning, but I doubt that
Behringer would be an improvement over the KEF 104. It's too bad he
isn't interested in electrostatic or planar speakers.

Stephen

PS I forget Focal-JM Lab!: "The beryllium dome represents a quantum
advance in tweeter technology".

Arny Krueger wrote:

Mackie, KRK, JBL Pro, Alesis, Tannoy, Dynaudio, Behringer, Event, M-Audio,
NHT Pro, Samson, Roland, Tapco, Nady, ART, Fostex, Yamaha Pro, Wharfdale,
Fostex.... Note that this is an inclusive list, not a list of speakers that
all equally merit serious consideration.

Many of these speakers include power amps, providing a convenient way to
build a minimalized system.

Based on recent listening evaluations, the bang-for-buck leader in studio
monitors could easily be the Behringer B2031A. They would make very gutsy
but nice-sounding speaker/amplifiers for use with a computer system and/or
CD player.

Those do look interesting. I like my JBL 4408s, but most people don't
have $650 to spend on a pair of speakers for their bedroom. The JBL
4200 series is pretty simmilar to these, though.

RPS wrote:
Newbie wrote:

: Friends have suggeted Spendor, Proac and Dynaudio.

Those are well known names by now but I remember when each was news to
me and I suspected the salesman was trying to pull some trick.

Anyway, does anybody know any unknown / less well known speaker brands
that are of equal or better quality and much better value (ie, less
expensive) than these?

RPS

Based on Triangle drivers :
http://www.waterfallaudio.com/indexhtm.html

An interesting drivers manufacturer :
http://www.atohm.com/index.php
I have the occasion to hear these ones, very nice, very clean, very nice
spatial reproduction :
http://www.atohm.com/enceintes.php?enceintes_ref=4
they should be available as kit.

Newbie wrote:

Having been away from audio for a long time, I am now looking to
upgrade from KEF 104ab, an speaker, probably similar to Spendor and
Rogers models. I would prefer a floorstander, but not much larger
footprint than my present speakers (ie, no Quads or Maggies). This is
for 2-channel stereo, not home theater.

Please suggest suitable brands and models. Friends have suggeted
Spendor, Proac and Dynaudio. However, I am confused by various "series"
within a brands (don't recall that happening when I shopped last time
but could just be my faulty memory!), eg, should I be looking at
Contour or something else in dynaudio?

All comments and advice appreciated.

As a starting point, get a hold of the most recent issues of Stereophile and
The Absolute Sound that have their Recommended Components listings.

From that, you can glean the floorstanders within your budget that would
merit further research.


GeoSynch