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#1
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
Front end op amps for a Fender guitar amp, (Stage Lead circa 1982).
Which of these would be the proper replacement, looking for low noise, the lead channel has very high gain. Texas Instruments has the following part numbers. RC4558D RC4558DR RC4558P RC4558PSR RC4558PWR What would be the differences? any help appreciated, Vin Collins |
#2
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"JVC" wrote in message ... Texas Instruments has the following part numbers. RC4558D RC4558DR RC4558P RC4558PSR RC4558PWR What would be the differences? Probably the package type. Have you checked the TI web site? http://focus.ti.com/ TonyP. |
#3
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"JVC" wrote in message ... Texas Instruments has the following part numbers. RC4558D RC4558DR RC4558P RC4558PSR RC4558PWR What would be the differences? Probably the package type. Have you checked the TI web site? http://focus.ti.com/ TonyP. |
#4
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"JVC" wrote in message ... Texas Instruments has the following part numbers. RC4558D RC4558DR RC4558P RC4558PSR RC4558PWR What would be the differences? Probably the package type. Have you checked the TI web site? http://focus.ti.com/ TonyP. |
#5
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"JVC" wrote in message ... Texas Instruments has the following part numbers. RC4558D RC4558DR RC4558P RC4558PSR RC4558PWR What would be the differences? Probably the package type. Have you checked the TI web site? http://focus.ti.com/ TonyP. |
#6
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
Hi Tony,
Thanks, it wasn't clear on the Mouser site that it was packaging, TI clarified it for me,,,thanks for the info, Vin "TonyP" wrote in message ... "JVC" wrote in message ... Texas Instruments has the following part numbers. RC4558D RC4558DR RC4558P RC4558PSR RC4558PWR What would be the differences? Probably the package type. Have you checked the TI web site? http://focus.ti.com/ TonyP. |
#7
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
Hi Tony,
Thanks, it wasn't clear on the Mouser site that it was packaging, TI clarified it for me,,,thanks for the info, Vin "TonyP" wrote in message ... "JVC" wrote in message ... Texas Instruments has the following part numbers. RC4558D RC4558DR RC4558P RC4558PSR RC4558PWR What would be the differences? Probably the package type. Have you checked the TI web site? http://focus.ti.com/ TonyP. |
#8
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
Hi Tony,
Thanks, it wasn't clear on the Mouser site that it was packaging, TI clarified it for me,,,thanks for the info, Vin "TonyP" wrote in message ... "JVC" wrote in message ... Texas Instruments has the following part numbers. RC4558D RC4558DR RC4558P RC4558PSR RC4558PWR What would be the differences? Probably the package type. Have you checked the TI web site? http://focus.ti.com/ TonyP. |
#9
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
Hi Tony,
Thanks, it wasn't clear on the Mouser site that it was packaging, TI clarified it for me,,,thanks for the info, Vin "TonyP" wrote in message ... "JVC" wrote in message ... Texas Instruments has the following part numbers. RC4558D RC4558DR RC4558P RC4558PSR RC4558PWR What would be the differences? Probably the package type. Have you checked the TI web site? http://focus.ti.com/ TonyP. |
#10
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
Would it be wise convert to socket, if so any part #'s (mouser) recommended.
thanks, Vin "François Yves Le Gal" wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:14:46 GMT, "JVC" wrote: What would be the differences? The op amp is exactly the same. The packaging differs: the P version comes in PDIP, the D and DR in SOIC, the PS in SOP, the PW and PWR in TSSOP. If your amp is from '82, we can presume the PDIP version has been used, but you should verify this. |
#11
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
Would it be wise convert to socket, if so any part #'s (mouser) recommended.
thanks, Vin "François Yves Le Gal" wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:14:46 GMT, "JVC" wrote: What would be the differences? The op amp is exactly the same. The packaging differs: the P version comes in PDIP, the D and DR in SOIC, the PS in SOP, the PW and PWR in TSSOP. If your amp is from '82, we can presume the PDIP version has been used, but you should verify this. |
#12
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
Would it be wise convert to socket, if so any part #'s (mouser) recommended.
thanks, Vin "François Yves Le Gal" wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:14:46 GMT, "JVC" wrote: What would be the differences? The op amp is exactly the same. The packaging differs: the P version comes in PDIP, the D and DR in SOIC, the PS in SOP, the PW and PWR in TSSOP. If your amp is from '82, we can presume the PDIP version has been used, but you should verify this. |
#13
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
Would it be wise convert to socket, if so any part #'s (mouser) recommended.
thanks, Vin "François Yves Le Gal" wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:14:46 GMT, "JVC" wrote: What would be the differences? The op amp is exactly the same. The packaging differs: the P version comes in PDIP, the D and DR in SOIC, the PS in SOP, the PW and PWR in TSSOP. If your amp is from '82, we can presume the PDIP version has been used, but you should verify this. |
#14
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
If it is the "D" package, mouser has sockets, as well as radio shack.
Standard 8 pin socket. I use them when modding tube screamers. On Tue, 11 May 2004 16:27:21 GMT, "JVC" wrote: Would it be wise convert to socket, if so any part #'s (mouser) recommended. thanks, Vin "François Yves Le Gal" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:14:46 GMT, "JVC" wrote: What would be the differences? The op amp is exactly the same. The packaging differs: the P version comes in PDIP, the D and DR in SOIC, the PS in SOP, the PW and PWR in TSSOP. If your amp is from '82, we can presume the PDIP version has been used, but you should verify this. |
#15
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
If it is the "D" package, mouser has sockets, as well as radio shack.
Standard 8 pin socket. I use them when modding tube screamers. On Tue, 11 May 2004 16:27:21 GMT, "JVC" wrote: Would it be wise convert to socket, if so any part #'s (mouser) recommended. thanks, Vin "François Yves Le Gal" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:14:46 GMT, "JVC" wrote: What would be the differences? The op amp is exactly the same. The packaging differs: the P version comes in PDIP, the D and DR in SOIC, the PS in SOP, the PW and PWR in TSSOP. If your amp is from '82, we can presume the PDIP version has been used, but you should verify this. |
#16
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
If it is the "D" package, mouser has sockets, as well as radio shack.
Standard 8 pin socket. I use them when modding tube screamers. On Tue, 11 May 2004 16:27:21 GMT, "JVC" wrote: Would it be wise convert to socket, if so any part #'s (mouser) recommended. thanks, Vin "François Yves Le Gal" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:14:46 GMT, "JVC" wrote: What would be the differences? The op amp is exactly the same. The packaging differs: the P version comes in PDIP, the D and DR in SOIC, the PS in SOP, the PW and PWR in TSSOP. If your amp is from '82, we can presume the PDIP version has been used, but you should verify this. |
#17
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
If it is the "D" package, mouser has sockets, as well as radio shack.
Standard 8 pin socket. I use them when modding tube screamers. On Tue, 11 May 2004 16:27:21 GMT, "JVC" wrote: Would it be wise convert to socket, if so any part #'s (mouser) recommended. thanks, Vin "François Yves Le Gal" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:14:46 GMT, "JVC" wrote: What would be the differences? The op amp is exactly the same. The packaging differs: the P version comes in PDIP, the D and DR in SOIC, the PS in SOP, the PW and PWR in TSSOP. If your amp is from '82, we can presume the PDIP version has been used, but you should verify this. |
#18
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"JVC" wrote:
Would it be wise convert to socket, if so any part #'s (mouser) recommended. It would be helpful for future work involving that part, but not required. http://www.mouser.com/catalog/618/828.pdf Just get an 8 pin low profile DIP socket, any one will do OK. I have a bunch of surplus AUGAT sockets that I use for things like that, but generic sockets are fine. |
#19
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"JVC" wrote:
Would it be wise convert to socket, if so any part #'s (mouser) recommended. It would be helpful for future work involving that part, but not required. http://www.mouser.com/catalog/618/828.pdf Just get an 8 pin low profile DIP socket, any one will do OK. I have a bunch of surplus AUGAT sockets that I use for things like that, but generic sockets are fine. |
#20
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"JVC" wrote:
Would it be wise convert to socket, if so any part #'s (mouser) recommended. It would be helpful for future work involving that part, but not required. http://www.mouser.com/catalog/618/828.pdf Just get an 8 pin low profile DIP socket, any one will do OK. I have a bunch of surplus AUGAT sockets that I use for things like that, but generic sockets are fine. |
#21
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"JVC" wrote:
Would it be wise convert to socket, if so any part #'s (mouser) recommended. It would be helpful for future work involving that part, but not required. http://www.mouser.com/catalog/618/828.pdf Just get an 8 pin low profile DIP socket, any one will do OK. I have a bunch of surplus AUGAT sockets that I use for things like that, but generic sockets are fine. |
#22
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"JVC" wrote in message ... Hi Tony, Thanks, it wasn't clear on the Mouser site that it was packaging, TI clarified it for me,,,thanks for the info, There's a "description" column on the Mouser page that gives the package type for each item, as well as a link to the pdf data sheet(s) which have the packaging info. http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?&han...*&N=0&crc=true IC sockets are a Very Bad Idea for guitar amps and other equipment that gets moved a lot. Between the vibration caused by playing through the amp and the beating the amp takes being moved from one gig to another, the socket to IC interface will sooner or later become intermittant. Fred Vin "TonyP" wrote in message ... "JVC" wrote in message ... Texas Instruments has the following part numbers. RC4558D RC4558DR RC4558P RC4558PSR RC4558PWR What would be the differences? Probably the package type. Have you checked the TI web site? http://focus.ti.com/ TonyP. |
#23
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"JVC" wrote in message ... Hi Tony, Thanks, it wasn't clear on the Mouser site that it was packaging, TI clarified it for me,,,thanks for the info, There's a "description" column on the Mouser page that gives the package type for each item, as well as a link to the pdf data sheet(s) which have the packaging info. http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?&han...*&N=0&crc=true IC sockets are a Very Bad Idea for guitar amps and other equipment that gets moved a lot. Between the vibration caused by playing through the amp and the beating the amp takes being moved from one gig to another, the socket to IC interface will sooner or later become intermittant. Fred Vin "TonyP" wrote in message ... "JVC" wrote in message ... Texas Instruments has the following part numbers. RC4558D RC4558DR RC4558P RC4558PSR RC4558PWR What would be the differences? Probably the package type. Have you checked the TI web site? http://focus.ti.com/ TonyP. |
#24
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"JVC" wrote in message ... Hi Tony, Thanks, it wasn't clear on the Mouser site that it was packaging, TI clarified it for me,,,thanks for the info, There's a "description" column on the Mouser page that gives the package type for each item, as well as a link to the pdf data sheet(s) which have the packaging info. http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?&han...*&N=0&crc=true IC sockets are a Very Bad Idea for guitar amps and other equipment that gets moved a lot. Between the vibration caused by playing through the amp and the beating the amp takes being moved from one gig to another, the socket to IC interface will sooner or later become intermittant. Fred Vin "TonyP" wrote in message ... "JVC" wrote in message ... Texas Instruments has the following part numbers. RC4558D RC4558DR RC4558P RC4558PSR RC4558PWR What would be the differences? Probably the package type. Have you checked the TI web site? http://focus.ti.com/ TonyP. |
#25
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"JVC" wrote in message ... Hi Tony, Thanks, it wasn't clear on the Mouser site that it was packaging, TI clarified it for me,,,thanks for the info, There's a "description" column on the Mouser page that gives the package type for each item, as well as a link to the pdf data sheet(s) which have the packaging info. http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?&han...*&N=0&crc=true IC sockets are a Very Bad Idea for guitar amps and other equipment that gets moved a lot. Between the vibration caused by playing through the amp and the beating the amp takes being moved from one gig to another, the socket to IC interface will sooner or later become intermittant. Fred Vin "TonyP" wrote in message ... "JVC" wrote in message ... Texas Instruments has the following part numbers. RC4558D RC4558DR RC4558P RC4558PSR RC4558PWR What would be the differences? Probably the package type. Have you checked the TI web site? http://focus.ti.com/ TonyP. |
#26
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"JVC" wrote in message .. .
Front end op amps for a Fender guitar amp, (Stage Lead circa 1982). Which of these would be the proper replacement, looking for low noise, the lead channel has very high gain. Texas Instruments has the following part numbers. RC4558D RC4558DR RC4558P RC4558PSR RC4558PWR What would be the differences? any help appreciated, Vin Collins The 4558 wasn't exactly a brand new design even back then. Maybe somebody here can recommend something newer with the same pin-out that'll work in its place. Like the other poster said, don't use a socket on a piece of gear that's going to get tossed into the back of the truck at the end of the night when everybody wants to load up fast and get gone. |
#27
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"JVC" wrote in message .. .
Front end op amps for a Fender guitar amp, (Stage Lead circa 1982). Which of these would be the proper replacement, looking for low noise, the lead channel has very high gain. Texas Instruments has the following part numbers. RC4558D RC4558DR RC4558P RC4558PSR RC4558PWR What would be the differences? any help appreciated, Vin Collins The 4558 wasn't exactly a brand new design even back then. Maybe somebody here can recommend something newer with the same pin-out that'll work in its place. Like the other poster said, don't use a socket on a piece of gear that's going to get tossed into the back of the truck at the end of the night when everybody wants to load up fast and get gone. |
#28
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"JVC" wrote in message .. .
Front end op amps for a Fender guitar amp, (Stage Lead circa 1982). Which of these would be the proper replacement, looking for low noise, the lead channel has very high gain. Texas Instruments has the following part numbers. RC4558D RC4558DR RC4558P RC4558PSR RC4558PWR What would be the differences? any help appreciated, Vin Collins The 4558 wasn't exactly a brand new design even back then. Maybe somebody here can recommend something newer with the same pin-out that'll work in its place. Like the other poster said, don't use a socket on a piece of gear that's going to get tossed into the back of the truck at the end of the night when everybody wants to load up fast and get gone. |
#29
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"JVC" wrote in message .. .
Front end op amps for a Fender guitar amp, (Stage Lead circa 1982). Which of these would be the proper replacement, looking for low noise, the lead channel has very high gain. Texas Instruments has the following part numbers. RC4558D RC4558DR RC4558P RC4558PSR RC4558PWR What would be the differences? any help appreciated, Vin Collins The 4558 wasn't exactly a brand new design even back then. Maybe somebody here can recommend something newer with the same pin-out that'll work in its place. Like the other poster said, don't use a socket on a piece of gear that's going to get tossed into the back of the truck at the end of the night when everybody wants to load up fast and get gone. |
#30
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"unitron" in message m...
The 4558 wasn't exactly a brand new design even back then. Maybe somebody here can recommend something newer with the same pin-out that'll work in its place. Wow, same op amp came up in more detail a month or two ago on sci.electronics.design. To give you what background I can offhand, this product (originally either Motorola MC1558/MC1458 or Signetics SE/NE5558, I don't recall exactly, circa 1969, later second-sourced by the entire semiconductor industry) is a classic dual version of the uA741 class of op amp. (I first mentioned a 1558 in print in _Popular Electronics_ in 1973 and received various questions on where to find it.) The basic amplifier design is widely considered easy to use by equipment designers, but key electrical specs for audio are weak enough (especially, 1-2MHz gain-bandwidth product and 1-2 V/usec slew rate) to be either obviously or subtly audible in audio applications -- unless it is out of the audio path (in a control function or power-supply or something). As a concrete example for any product designers reading this, at 20kHz this amplifier has an open-loop gain of 50-100 V/V, so a 1 Vrms sinusoid output (2.8 V Peak-to-Peak) means at least 28 mV P-P across the amplifier's + - input pins -- which go into a stacked bipolar emitter-coupled pair stage linear only for differences much below 26 mV at typical temperatures and hard-limiting at something like 52mV differential -- leading to important distortion levels at audio, except for "small-signal" output conditions. That's just the bad news. The good news is that maybe that particular audio product sounded the way it did because of this op amp. And that this particular pin-out is very common on 8-pin dual operational amplifiers (compare pin-outs first, if considering alternatives) so that many others could be substituted, and some of them are especially good for audio, unlike the 1558 (and 741). Sorry I don't have the latest at hand, but I did post general op-amp tutorial info related to audio in the past articles below and in others too, available (like many useful past postings) by searching an online Usenet archive (such as, currently, groups.google.com): Subject: About op amps for audio applications (long) Newsgroups: sci.electronics,rec.audio Message-ID: Date: 23 May 88 14:43:23 GMT Subject: The maligned 5534 op amp (Was: Chesky's 128x oversamp) Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 91 13:19:07 GMT Hope this is helpful. -- Max Hauser |
#31
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"unitron" in message m...
The 4558 wasn't exactly a brand new design even back then. Maybe somebody here can recommend something newer with the same pin-out that'll work in its place. Wow, same op amp came up in more detail a month or two ago on sci.electronics.design. To give you what background I can offhand, this product (originally either Motorola MC1558/MC1458 or Signetics SE/NE5558, I don't recall exactly, circa 1969, later second-sourced by the entire semiconductor industry) is a classic dual version of the uA741 class of op amp. (I first mentioned a 1558 in print in _Popular Electronics_ in 1973 and received various questions on where to find it.) The basic amplifier design is widely considered easy to use by equipment designers, but key electrical specs for audio are weak enough (especially, 1-2MHz gain-bandwidth product and 1-2 V/usec slew rate) to be either obviously or subtly audible in audio applications -- unless it is out of the audio path (in a control function or power-supply or something). As a concrete example for any product designers reading this, at 20kHz this amplifier has an open-loop gain of 50-100 V/V, so a 1 Vrms sinusoid output (2.8 V Peak-to-Peak) means at least 28 mV P-P across the amplifier's + - input pins -- which go into a stacked bipolar emitter-coupled pair stage linear only for differences much below 26 mV at typical temperatures and hard-limiting at something like 52mV differential -- leading to important distortion levels at audio, except for "small-signal" output conditions. That's just the bad news. The good news is that maybe that particular audio product sounded the way it did because of this op amp. And that this particular pin-out is very common on 8-pin dual operational amplifiers (compare pin-outs first, if considering alternatives) so that many others could be substituted, and some of them are especially good for audio, unlike the 1558 (and 741). Sorry I don't have the latest at hand, but I did post general op-amp tutorial info related to audio in the past articles below and in others too, available (like many useful past postings) by searching an online Usenet archive (such as, currently, groups.google.com): Subject: About op amps for audio applications (long) Newsgroups: sci.electronics,rec.audio Message-ID: Date: 23 May 88 14:43:23 GMT Subject: The maligned 5534 op amp (Was: Chesky's 128x oversamp) Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 91 13:19:07 GMT Hope this is helpful. -- Max Hauser |
#32
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"unitron" in message m...
The 4558 wasn't exactly a brand new design even back then. Maybe somebody here can recommend something newer with the same pin-out that'll work in its place. Wow, same op amp came up in more detail a month or two ago on sci.electronics.design. To give you what background I can offhand, this product (originally either Motorola MC1558/MC1458 or Signetics SE/NE5558, I don't recall exactly, circa 1969, later second-sourced by the entire semiconductor industry) is a classic dual version of the uA741 class of op amp. (I first mentioned a 1558 in print in _Popular Electronics_ in 1973 and received various questions on where to find it.) The basic amplifier design is widely considered easy to use by equipment designers, but key electrical specs for audio are weak enough (especially, 1-2MHz gain-bandwidth product and 1-2 V/usec slew rate) to be either obviously or subtly audible in audio applications -- unless it is out of the audio path (in a control function or power-supply or something). As a concrete example for any product designers reading this, at 20kHz this amplifier has an open-loop gain of 50-100 V/V, so a 1 Vrms sinusoid output (2.8 V Peak-to-Peak) means at least 28 mV P-P across the amplifier's + - input pins -- which go into a stacked bipolar emitter-coupled pair stage linear only for differences much below 26 mV at typical temperatures and hard-limiting at something like 52mV differential -- leading to important distortion levels at audio, except for "small-signal" output conditions. That's just the bad news. The good news is that maybe that particular audio product sounded the way it did because of this op amp. And that this particular pin-out is very common on 8-pin dual operational amplifiers (compare pin-outs first, if considering alternatives) so that many others could be substituted, and some of them are especially good for audio, unlike the 1558 (and 741). Sorry I don't have the latest at hand, but I did post general op-amp tutorial info related to audio in the past articles below and in others too, available (like many useful past postings) by searching an online Usenet archive (such as, currently, groups.google.com): Subject: About op amps for audio applications (long) Newsgroups: sci.electronics,rec.audio Message-ID: Date: 23 May 88 14:43:23 GMT Subject: The maligned 5534 op amp (Was: Chesky's 128x oversamp) Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 91 13:19:07 GMT Hope this is helpful. -- Max Hauser |
#33
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"unitron" in message m...
The 4558 wasn't exactly a brand new design even back then. Maybe somebody here can recommend something newer with the same pin-out that'll work in its place. Wow, same op amp came up in more detail a month or two ago on sci.electronics.design. To give you what background I can offhand, this product (originally either Motorola MC1558/MC1458 or Signetics SE/NE5558, I don't recall exactly, circa 1969, later second-sourced by the entire semiconductor industry) is a classic dual version of the uA741 class of op amp. (I first mentioned a 1558 in print in _Popular Electronics_ in 1973 and received various questions on where to find it.) The basic amplifier design is widely considered easy to use by equipment designers, but key electrical specs for audio are weak enough (especially, 1-2MHz gain-bandwidth product and 1-2 V/usec slew rate) to be either obviously or subtly audible in audio applications -- unless it is out of the audio path (in a control function or power-supply or something). As a concrete example for any product designers reading this, at 20kHz this amplifier has an open-loop gain of 50-100 V/V, so a 1 Vrms sinusoid output (2.8 V Peak-to-Peak) means at least 28 mV P-P across the amplifier's + - input pins -- which go into a stacked bipolar emitter-coupled pair stage linear only for differences much below 26 mV at typical temperatures and hard-limiting at something like 52mV differential -- leading to important distortion levels at audio, except for "small-signal" output conditions. That's just the bad news. The good news is that maybe that particular audio product sounded the way it did because of this op amp. And that this particular pin-out is very common on 8-pin dual operational amplifiers (compare pin-outs first, if considering alternatives) so that many others could be substituted, and some of them are especially good for audio, unlike the 1558 (and 741). Sorry I don't have the latest at hand, but I did post general op-amp tutorial info related to audio in the past articles below and in others too, available (like many useful past postings) by searching an online Usenet archive (such as, currently, groups.google.com): Subject: About op amps for audio applications (long) Newsgroups: sci.electronics,rec.audio Message-ID: Date: 23 May 88 14:43:23 GMT Subject: The maligned 5534 op amp (Was: Chesky's 128x oversamp) Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 91 13:19:07 GMT Hope this is helpful. -- Max Hauser |
#34
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"Max Hauser" wrote in message To give you what background I can offhand, this product (originally either Motorola MC1558/MC1458 or Signetics SE/NE5558, I don't recall exactly, circa 1969, later second-sourced by the entire semiconductor industry) is a classic dual version of the uA741 class of op amp. ** The RC4558 was *introduced * in 1974 by Raytheon - it is of quite *different* design to the uA741 (released in 1968) or MC1458 (a dual 741). For a start the two input transistors in a 4558 are PNP and not NPN as in a 741, the gain bandwidth product and slew rates are 2 to 3 times greater and the self noise level is about 6 to 8 dB less. More recently the 4559 and 4560 have been produced with further improvements in the above characteristics - they are widely available from several makers. ............. Phil |
#35
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"Max Hauser" wrote in message To give you what background I can offhand, this product (originally either Motorola MC1558/MC1458 or Signetics SE/NE5558, I don't recall exactly, circa 1969, later second-sourced by the entire semiconductor industry) is a classic dual version of the uA741 class of op amp. ** The RC4558 was *introduced * in 1974 by Raytheon - it is of quite *different* design to the uA741 (released in 1968) or MC1458 (a dual 741). For a start the two input transistors in a 4558 are PNP and not NPN as in a 741, the gain bandwidth product and slew rates are 2 to 3 times greater and the self noise level is about 6 to 8 dB less. More recently the 4559 and 4560 have been produced with further improvements in the above characteristics - they are widely available from several makers. ............. Phil |
#36
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"Max Hauser" wrote in message To give you what background I can offhand, this product (originally either Motorola MC1558/MC1458 or Signetics SE/NE5558, I don't recall exactly, circa 1969, later second-sourced by the entire semiconductor industry) is a classic dual version of the uA741 class of op amp. ** The RC4558 was *introduced * in 1974 by Raytheon - it is of quite *different* design to the uA741 (released in 1968) or MC1458 (a dual 741). For a start the two input transistors in a 4558 are PNP and not NPN as in a 741, the gain bandwidth product and slew rates are 2 to 3 times greater and the self noise level is about 6 to 8 dB less. More recently the 4559 and 4560 have been produced with further improvements in the above characteristics - they are widely available from several makers. ............. Phil |
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"Max Hauser" wrote in message To give you what background I can offhand, this product (originally either Motorola MC1558/MC1458 or Signetics SE/NE5558, I don't recall exactly, circa 1969, later second-sourced by the entire semiconductor industry) is a classic dual version of the uA741 class of op amp. ** The RC4558 was *introduced * in 1974 by Raytheon - it is of quite *different* design to the uA741 (released in 1968) or MC1458 (a dual 741). For a start the two input transistors in a 4558 are PNP and not NPN as in a 741, the gain bandwidth product and slew rates are 2 to 3 times greater and the self noise level is about 6 to 8 dB less. More recently the 4559 and 4560 have been produced with further improvements in the above characteristics - they are widely available from several makers. ............. Phil |
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"Phil Allison" in ...
"Max Hauser" wrote: ** The RC4558 was *introduced * in 1974 by Raytheon Sorry! I screwed up there, forgetting the actual RC4558 (and the focus of this thread) in the haunting maze of other and more common dual op amps of at least three distinct designs all called some kind of -558, as follows (if you're interested). It was not the RC4558 I referred to in the previous posting. More on op amps in general at the end, and a glorious historical link. Some history. The original, Motorola MC1558, was explicitly a dual 741. Its significance was partly 8-pin package, unlike earlier Fairchild and National 14-pin dual-741 types. (I also remember an early dual 741 from Raytheon, RC4136 I think, 8 pin also? -- that memory is from the early 1970s so don't hold me to precision there.) The MC1558 was supplemented by Motorola's high-speed version (MC1558S) as Jim Thompson, working there at the time, recalled recently, 22-Feb-04 in sci.electronics.design -- the second distinct circuit. These early "558" op amps were popular and became second-sourced soon by other vendors one of which, as I recall, called theirs "5558" to conform to the firm's product numbering. None of these products was the RC4558, a later design with PNP input stage. (Motorola itself then proceeded itself to second-source the RC4558 too.) In 1974 (not 1973) I put a circuit in _Popular Electronics_ calling for a "558-type" dual op amp, intending a 1558 or one of its second-sourced, slightly different-numbered versions. This yielded a file of correspondence to me in California from hobbyists as distant as Selangor, Malaysia (I just checked the file) full of requests for clarification on the "558" part number, an issue haunting me still, as you see. :-( - it is of quite *different* design to the uA741 (released in 1968) or MC1458 (a dual 741). Regarding comparisons to 741, Mr Allison employs a close-up lens, mine is a zoom. In the context of the popular Philbrick K2-W and K2-XA vacuum-tube DC-coupled op amps (still in use! _mirabile dictu_), the many successful solid-state pre-monolithic op amps including the breakthrough Philbrick P2 and P65, low-cost Nexus SQ10A, several from NV Philips; early monolithic generations of low-voltage three-stage, then high-voltage three-stage, then high-voltage two-stage designs (Fullagar's 741, Widlar's LM101), the duals we are discussing, the low-cost National "quad 741" (Fredrickson's LM324), Lovelace's NE5532, Huijsing ("Professor Op Amp")'s NE5534, the mixed-process op amps of the middle 1970s, and many others, it's possible to observe in the RC4558a bipolar design with mirror-loaded input stage, NPN Darlington second gain stage, complementary emitter-follower output stage, and internal single-pole minor-loop frequency compensation (popularized by the Philbrick K2 family, not the much later 741 as the young engineers suppose). It is possible to find designs that are indeed nearer to the original 741, but not many -- which is why some people would call it a 741-class design. (It also has the internal fixed unity-gain freq compensation decried as a limitation in Jim Roberge's classic op-amp design text -- I cited the result, a performance limitation apt to yield audible distortion.) I have some experience designing monolithic op amps (one-, two-, and three-gain-stage types, bipolar and MOS, some fast, some low-noise, some just weird) so maybe I lump more designs into the "741 class" than the next person might choose to do. If anyone would like to really learn about op amps and their ways, from a long focus, one of the Primary Sources that taught the world about op amps, the 1965 Philbrick Applications Manual, is now online, thanks in part I believe to one of its authors (Dan Sheingold). The current link is http://www.analog.com/library/analog...mplifiers.html -- be sure to re-assemble and paste into your browser, if the line gets wrapped to more than one. Again I hope this will find some use to someone, and apologize for still mixing "558" part numbers after thirty years. -- Max Hauser |
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"Phil Allison" in ...
"Max Hauser" wrote: ** The RC4558 was *introduced * in 1974 by Raytheon Sorry! I screwed up there, forgetting the actual RC4558 (and the focus of this thread) in the haunting maze of other and more common dual op amps of at least three distinct designs all called some kind of -558, as follows (if you're interested). It was not the RC4558 I referred to in the previous posting. More on op amps in general at the end, and a glorious historical link. Some history. The original, Motorola MC1558, was explicitly a dual 741. Its significance was partly 8-pin package, unlike earlier Fairchild and National 14-pin dual-741 types. (I also remember an early dual 741 from Raytheon, RC4136 I think, 8 pin also? -- that memory is from the early 1970s so don't hold me to precision there.) The MC1558 was supplemented by Motorola's high-speed version (MC1558S) as Jim Thompson, working there at the time, recalled recently, 22-Feb-04 in sci.electronics.design -- the second distinct circuit. These early "558" op amps were popular and became second-sourced soon by other vendors one of which, as I recall, called theirs "5558" to conform to the firm's product numbering. None of these products was the RC4558, a later design with PNP input stage. (Motorola itself then proceeded itself to second-source the RC4558 too.) In 1974 (not 1973) I put a circuit in _Popular Electronics_ calling for a "558-type" dual op amp, intending a 1558 or one of its second-sourced, slightly different-numbered versions. This yielded a file of correspondence to me in California from hobbyists as distant as Selangor, Malaysia (I just checked the file) full of requests for clarification on the "558" part number, an issue haunting me still, as you see. :-( - it is of quite *different* design to the uA741 (released in 1968) or MC1458 (a dual 741). Regarding comparisons to 741, Mr Allison employs a close-up lens, mine is a zoom. In the context of the popular Philbrick K2-W and K2-XA vacuum-tube DC-coupled op amps (still in use! _mirabile dictu_), the many successful solid-state pre-monolithic op amps including the breakthrough Philbrick P2 and P65, low-cost Nexus SQ10A, several from NV Philips; early monolithic generations of low-voltage three-stage, then high-voltage three-stage, then high-voltage two-stage designs (Fullagar's 741, Widlar's LM101), the duals we are discussing, the low-cost National "quad 741" (Fredrickson's LM324), Lovelace's NE5532, Huijsing ("Professor Op Amp")'s NE5534, the mixed-process op amps of the middle 1970s, and many others, it's possible to observe in the RC4558a bipolar design with mirror-loaded input stage, NPN Darlington second gain stage, complementary emitter-follower output stage, and internal single-pole minor-loop frequency compensation (popularized by the Philbrick K2 family, not the much later 741 as the young engineers suppose). It is possible to find designs that are indeed nearer to the original 741, but not many -- which is why some people would call it a 741-class design. (It also has the internal fixed unity-gain freq compensation decried as a limitation in Jim Roberge's classic op-amp design text -- I cited the result, a performance limitation apt to yield audible distortion.) I have some experience designing monolithic op amps (one-, two-, and three-gain-stage types, bipolar and MOS, some fast, some low-noise, some just weird) so maybe I lump more designs into the "741 class" than the next person might choose to do. If anyone would like to really learn about op amps and their ways, from a long focus, one of the Primary Sources that taught the world about op amps, the 1965 Philbrick Applications Manual, is now online, thanks in part I believe to one of its authors (Dan Sheingold). The current link is http://www.analog.com/library/analog...mplifiers.html -- be sure to re-assemble and paste into your browser, if the line gets wrapped to more than one. Again I hope this will find some use to someone, and apologize for still mixing "558" part numbers after thirty years. -- Max Hauser |
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RC4558 Variants IC OP amp
"Phil Allison" in ...
"Max Hauser" wrote: ** The RC4558 was *introduced * in 1974 by Raytheon Sorry! I screwed up there, forgetting the actual RC4558 (and the focus of this thread) in the haunting maze of other and more common dual op amps of at least three distinct designs all called some kind of -558, as follows (if you're interested). It was not the RC4558 I referred to in the previous posting. More on op amps in general at the end, and a glorious historical link. Some history. The original, Motorola MC1558, was explicitly a dual 741. Its significance was partly 8-pin package, unlike earlier Fairchild and National 14-pin dual-741 types. (I also remember an early dual 741 from Raytheon, RC4136 I think, 8 pin also? -- that memory is from the early 1970s so don't hold me to precision there.) The MC1558 was supplemented by Motorola's high-speed version (MC1558S) as Jim Thompson, working there at the time, recalled recently, 22-Feb-04 in sci.electronics.design -- the second distinct circuit. These early "558" op amps were popular and became second-sourced soon by other vendors one of which, as I recall, called theirs "5558" to conform to the firm's product numbering. None of these products was the RC4558, a later design with PNP input stage. (Motorola itself then proceeded itself to second-source the RC4558 too.) In 1974 (not 1973) I put a circuit in _Popular Electronics_ calling for a "558-type" dual op amp, intending a 1558 or one of its second-sourced, slightly different-numbered versions. This yielded a file of correspondence to me in California from hobbyists as distant as Selangor, Malaysia (I just checked the file) full of requests for clarification on the "558" part number, an issue haunting me still, as you see. :-( - it is of quite *different* design to the uA741 (released in 1968) or MC1458 (a dual 741). Regarding comparisons to 741, Mr Allison employs a close-up lens, mine is a zoom. In the context of the popular Philbrick K2-W and K2-XA vacuum-tube DC-coupled op amps (still in use! _mirabile dictu_), the many successful solid-state pre-monolithic op amps including the breakthrough Philbrick P2 and P65, low-cost Nexus SQ10A, several from NV Philips; early monolithic generations of low-voltage three-stage, then high-voltage three-stage, then high-voltage two-stage designs (Fullagar's 741, Widlar's LM101), the duals we are discussing, the low-cost National "quad 741" (Fredrickson's LM324), Lovelace's NE5532, Huijsing ("Professor Op Amp")'s NE5534, the mixed-process op amps of the middle 1970s, and many others, it's possible to observe in the RC4558a bipolar design with mirror-loaded input stage, NPN Darlington second gain stage, complementary emitter-follower output stage, and internal single-pole minor-loop frequency compensation (popularized by the Philbrick K2 family, not the much later 741 as the young engineers suppose). It is possible to find designs that are indeed nearer to the original 741, but not many -- which is why some people would call it a 741-class design. (It also has the internal fixed unity-gain freq compensation decried as a limitation in Jim Roberge's classic op-amp design text -- I cited the result, a performance limitation apt to yield audible distortion.) I have some experience designing monolithic op amps (one-, two-, and three-gain-stage types, bipolar and MOS, some fast, some low-noise, some just weird) so maybe I lump more designs into the "741 class" than the next person might choose to do. If anyone would like to really learn about op amps and their ways, from a long focus, one of the Primary Sources that taught the world about op amps, the 1965 Philbrick Applications Manual, is now online, thanks in part I believe to one of its authors (Dan Sheingold). The current link is http://www.analog.com/library/analog...mplifiers.html -- be sure to re-assemble and paste into your browser, if the line gets wrapped to more than one. Again I hope this will find some use to someone, and apologize for still mixing "558" part numbers after thirty years. -- Max Hauser |