Hi all,

Im busy working on a university project regarding room equilization
using a PC.
The idea is to measure the response of a room using a microphone.
I am rather new to all this dsp related stuff and have absolutely no
clue about microphones. Since the price range is rather wide, I have
to carefully research this, not to waste money on microphone features
that would be of no use in the project.

Id really appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction
as to, what make (behringer/sony etc.etc.) and quality of microphone
that would be a minimum requirement. All I know at the moment is that
I need an omnidirectional microphone

Any help/tips much appreciated.
Thanks.
Witek.

"Witek" wrote in message
om

Im busy working on a university project regarding room equilization
using a PC.

The idea is to measure the response of a room using a microphone.
I am rather new to all this dsp related stuff and have absolutely no
clue about microphones. Since the price range is rather wide, I have
to carefully research this, not to waste money on microphone features
that would be of no use in the project.

Id really appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction
as to, what make (behringer/sony etc.etc.) and quality of microphone
that would be a minimum requirement. All I know at the moment is that
I need an omnidirectional microphone

The Behringer ECM8000 does well as a measurement mic between 40 Hz and 20
KHz. It rolls off in a predictable way below 40 Hz. Costs about $40. If you
want something appreciably better, look at the corresponding Earthworks mics
starting around $400, or DPA mics starting at about $1300.

"Witek" wrote in message
om

Im busy working on a university project regarding room equilization
using a PC.

The idea is to measure the response of a room using a microphone.
I am rather new to all this dsp related stuff and have absolutely no
clue about microphones. Since the price range is rather wide, I have
to carefully research this, not to waste money on microphone features
that would be of no use in the project.

Id really appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction
as to, what make (behringer/sony etc.etc.) and quality of microphone
that would be a minimum requirement. All I know at the moment is that
I need an omnidirectional microphone

The Behringer ECM8000 does well as a measurement mic between 40 Hz and 20
KHz. It rolls off in a predictable way below 40 Hz. Costs about $40. If you
want something appreciably better, look at the corresponding Earthworks mics
starting around $400, or DPA mics starting at about $1300.

"Witek" wrote in message
om

Im busy working on a university project regarding room equilization
using a PC.

The idea is to measure the response of a room using a microphone.
I am rather new to all this dsp related stuff and have absolutely no
clue about microphones. Since the price range is rather wide, I have
to carefully research this, not to waste money on microphone features
that would be of no use in the project.

Id really appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction
as to, what make (behringer/sony etc.etc.) and quality of microphone
that would be a minimum requirement. All I know at the moment is that
I need an omnidirectional microphone

The Behringer ECM8000 does well as a measurement mic between 40 Hz and 20
KHz. It rolls off in a predictable way below 40 Hz. Costs about $40. If you
want something appreciably better, look at the corresponding Earthworks mics
starting around $400, or DPA mics starting at about $1300.

"Witek" wrote in message
om

Im busy working on a university project regarding room equilization
using a PC.

The idea is to measure the response of a room using a microphone.
I am rather new to all this dsp related stuff and have absolutely no
clue about microphones. Since the price range is rather wide, I have
to carefully research this, not to waste money on microphone features
that would be of no use in the project.

Id really appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction
as to, what make (behringer/sony etc.etc.) and quality of microphone
that would be a minimum requirement. All I know at the moment is that
I need an omnidirectional microphone

The Behringer ECM8000 does well as a measurement mic between 40 Hz and 20
KHz. It rolls off in a predictable way below 40 Hz. Costs about $40. If you
want something appreciably better, look at the corresponding Earthworks mics
starting around $400, or DPA mics starting at about $1300.

(Witek) wrote in message . com...
Hi all,

Im busy working on a university project regarding room equilization
using a PC.
The idea is to measure the response of a room using a microphone.
I am rather new to all this dsp related stuff and have absolutely no
clue about microphones. Since the price range is rather wide, I have
to carefully research this, not to waste money on microphone features
that would be of no use in the project.

Id really appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction
as to, what make (behringer/sony etc.etc.) and quality of microphone
that would be a minimum requirement. All I know at the moment is that
I need an omnidirectional microphone

Any help/tips much appreciated.
Thanks.
Witek.

Just remember that in a highly reflective room *all* microphones are
omnidirectional and that the response of a room isn't likely to be the
same everywhere in the room.

(Witek) wrote in message . com...
Hi all,

Im busy working on a university project regarding room equilization
using a PC.
The idea is to measure the response of a room using a microphone.
I am rather new to all this dsp related stuff and have absolutely no
clue about microphones. Since the price range is rather wide, I have
to carefully research this, not to waste money on microphone features
that would be of no use in the project.

Id really appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction
as to, what make (behringer/sony etc.etc.) and quality of microphone
that would be a minimum requirement. All I know at the moment is that
I need an omnidirectional microphone

Any help/tips much appreciated.
Thanks.
Witek.

Just remember that in a highly reflective room *all* microphones are
omnidirectional and that the response of a room isn't likely to be the
same everywhere in the room.

(Witek) wrote in message . com...
Hi all,

Im busy working on a university project regarding room equilization
using a PC.
The idea is to measure the response of a room using a microphone.
I am rather new to all this dsp related stuff and have absolutely no
clue about microphones. Since the price range is rather wide, I have
to carefully research this, not to waste money on microphone features
that would be of no use in the project.

Id really appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction
as to, what make (behringer/sony etc.etc.) and quality of microphone
that would be a minimum requirement. All I know at the moment is that
I need an omnidirectional microphone

Any help/tips much appreciated.
Thanks.
Witek.

Just remember that in a highly reflective room *all* microphones are
omnidirectional and that the response of a room isn't likely to be the
same everywhere in the room.

(Witek) wrote in message . com...
Hi all,

Im busy working on a university project regarding room equilization
using a PC.
The idea is to measure the response of a room using a microphone.
I am rather new to all this dsp related stuff and have absolutely no
clue about microphones. Since the price range is rather wide, I have
to carefully research this, not to waste money on microphone features
that would be of no use in the project.

Id really appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction
as to, what make (behringer/sony etc.etc.) and quality of microphone
that would be a minimum requirement. All I know at the moment is that
I need an omnidirectional microphone

Any help/tips much appreciated.
Thanks.
Witek.

Just remember that in a highly reflective room *all* microphones are
omnidirectional and that the response of a room isn't likely to be the
same everywhere in the room.

Witek,

Im busy working on a university project regarding room equilization using
a PC.

You got some good advice. I just want to echo what Uni said about the
frequency response changing around the room. Especially at low frequencies,
the response varies all over the place. I've measured changes as large as 15
dB over a physical span of only four inches! This is one big reason room EQ
is never successful for fixing the response in a typical listening room. No
matter what correction you apply, anything that improves the response in one
place is guaranteed to make it worse in others. Also, EQ does nothing to
reduce low frequency reverb that muddies the sound of bass instruments. And
that's as big a problem as the severely skewed frequency response.

--Ethan

Witek,

Im busy working on a university project regarding room equilization using
a PC.

You got some good advice. I just want to echo what Uni said about the
frequency response changing around the room. Especially at low frequencies,
the response varies all over the place. I've measured changes as large as 15
dB over a physical span of only four inches! This is one big reason room EQ
is never successful for fixing the response in a typical listening room. No
matter what correction you apply, anything that improves the response in one
place is guaranteed to make it worse in others. Also, EQ does nothing to
reduce low frequency reverb that muddies the sound of bass instruments. And
that's as big a problem as the severely skewed frequency response.

--Ethan

Witek,

Im busy working on a university project regarding room equilization using
a PC.

You got some good advice. I just want to echo what Uni said about the
frequency response changing around the room. Especially at low frequencies,
the response varies all over the place. I've measured changes as large as 15
dB over a physical span of only four inches! This is one big reason room EQ
is never successful for fixing the response in a typical listening room. No
matter what correction you apply, anything that improves the response in one
place is guaranteed to make it worse in others. Also, EQ does nothing to
reduce low frequency reverb that muddies the sound of bass instruments. And
that's as big a problem as the severely skewed frequency response.

--Ethan

Witek,

Im busy working on a university project regarding room equilization using
a PC.

You got some good advice. I just want to echo what Uni said about the
frequency response changing around the room. Especially at low frequencies,
the response varies all over the place. I've measured changes as large as 15
dB over a physical span of only four inches! This is one big reason room EQ
is never successful for fixing the response in a typical listening room. No
matter what correction you apply, anything that improves the response in one
place is guaranteed to make it worse in others. Also, EQ does nothing to
reduce low frequency reverb that muddies the sound of bass instruments. And
that's as big a problem as the severely skewed frequency response.

--Ethan

Arny, Uni and Ethan, thanks a lot.

It seems like the Behringer ECM8000 will be the choice. The budget of
a student project is rather limited, as I found out yersterday.

Thanks,
Witek.

Arny, Uni and Ethan, thanks a lot.

It seems like the Behringer ECM8000 will be the choice. The budget of
a student project is rather limited, as I found out yersterday.

Thanks,
Witek.

Arny, Uni and Ethan, thanks a lot.

It seems like the Behringer ECM8000 will be the choice. The budget of
a student project is rather limited, as I found out yersterday.

Thanks,
Witek.

Arny, Uni and Ethan, thanks a lot.

It seems like the Behringer ECM8000 will be the choice. The budget of
a student project is rather limited, as I found out yersterday.

Thanks,
Witek.

Superluxe ECM 999. Not as cheap as the Behringer, but still inexpensive,
and a better measurement mic (much closer to the Earthworks than it has a
right to be).


"Witek" wrote in message
om...
Hi all,

Im busy working on a university project regarding room equilization
using a PC.
The idea is to measure the response of a room using a microphone.
I am rather new to all this dsp related stuff and have absolutely no
clue about microphones. Since the price range is rather wide, I have
to carefully research this, not to waste money on microphone features
that would be of no use in the project.

Id really appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction
as to, what make (behringer/sony etc.etc.) and quality of microphone
that would be a minimum requirement. All I know at the moment is that
I need an omnidirectional microphone

Any help/tips much appreciated.
Thanks.
Witek.

Superluxe ECM 999. Not as cheap as the Behringer, but still inexpensive,
and a better measurement mic (much closer to the Earthworks than it has a
right to be).


"Witek" wrote in message
om...
Hi all,

Im busy working on a university project regarding room equilization
using a PC.
The idea is to measure the response of a room using a microphone.
I am rather new to all this dsp related stuff and have absolutely no
clue about microphones. Since the price range is rather wide, I have
to carefully research this, not to waste money on microphone features
that would be of no use in the project.

Id really appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction
as to, what make (behringer/sony etc.etc.) and quality of microphone
that would be a minimum requirement. All I know at the moment is that
I need an omnidirectional microphone

Any help/tips much appreciated.
Thanks.
Witek.

Superluxe ECM 999. Not as cheap as the Behringer, but still inexpensive,
and a better measurement mic (much closer to the Earthworks than it has a
right to be).


"Witek" wrote in message
om...
Hi all,

Im busy working on a university project regarding room equilization
using a PC.
The idea is to measure the response of a room using a microphone.
I am rather new to all this dsp related stuff and have absolutely no
clue about microphones. Since the price range is rather wide, I have
to carefully research this, not to waste money on microphone features
that would be of no use in the project.

Id really appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction
as to, what make (behringer/sony etc.etc.) and quality of microphone
that would be a minimum requirement. All I know at the moment is that
I need an omnidirectional microphone

Any help/tips much appreciated.
Thanks.
Witek.

Superluxe ECM 999. Not as cheap as the Behringer, but still inexpensive,
and a better measurement mic (much closer to the Earthworks than it has a
right to be).


"Witek" wrote in message
om...
Hi all,

Im busy working on a university project regarding room equilization
using a PC.
The idea is to measure the response of a room using a microphone.
I am rather new to all this dsp related stuff and have absolutely no
clue about microphones. Since the price range is rather wide, I have
to carefully research this, not to waste money on microphone features
that would be of no use in the project.

Id really appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction
as to, what make (behringer/sony etc.etc.) and quality of microphone
that would be a minimum requirement. All I know at the moment is that
I need an omnidirectional microphone

Any help/tips much appreciated.
Thanks.
Witek.

"Tim Padrick" wrote in message

Superluxe ECM 999. Not as cheap as the Behringer, but still
inexpensive, and a better measurement mic (much closer to the
Earthworks than it has a right to be).


http://www.soundfirst.org/audiotoolbox/

http://www.superlux.us/ECM-999.html

"Tim Padrick" wrote in message

Superluxe ECM 999. Not as cheap as the Behringer, but still
inexpensive, and a better measurement mic (much closer to the
Earthworks than it has a right to be).


http://www.soundfirst.org/audiotoolbox/

http://www.superlux.us/ECM-999.html

"Tim Padrick" wrote in message

Superluxe ECM 999. Not as cheap as the Behringer, but still
inexpensive, and a better measurement mic (much closer to the
Earthworks than it has a right to be).


http://www.soundfirst.org/audiotoolbox/

http://www.superlux.us/ECM-999.html

"Tim Padrick" wrote in message

Superluxe ECM 999. Not as cheap as the Behringer, but still
inexpensive, and a better measurement mic (much closer to the
Earthworks than it has a right to be).


http://www.soundfirst.org/audiotoolbox/

http://www.superlux.us/ECM-999.html

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

"Tim Padrick" wrote in message

Superluxe ECM 999. Not as cheap as the Behringer, but still
inexpensive, and a better measurement mic (much closer to the
Earthworks than it has a right to be).


http://www.soundfirst.org/audiotoolbox/

http://www.superlux.us/ECM-999.html

It looks exactly like an ECM8000, except for the etched logo. I'm wondering
if we should take this spec sheet as the proper specs for the ECM8000, given
the shortcomings of Behringer's spec sheet.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

"Tim Padrick" wrote in message

Superluxe ECM 999. Not as cheap as the Behringer, but still
inexpensive, and a better measurement mic (much closer to the
Earthworks than it has a right to be).


http://www.soundfirst.org/audiotoolbox/

http://www.superlux.us/ECM-999.html

It looks exactly like an ECM8000, except for the etched logo. I'm wondering
if we should take this spec sheet as the proper specs for the ECM8000, given
the shortcomings of Behringer's spec sheet.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

"Tim Padrick" wrote in message

Superluxe ECM 999. Not as cheap as the Behringer, but still
inexpensive, and a better measurement mic (much closer to the
Earthworks than it has a right to be).


http://www.soundfirst.org/audiotoolbox/

http://www.superlux.us/ECM-999.html

It looks exactly like an ECM8000, except for the etched logo. I'm wondering
if we should take this spec sheet as the proper specs for the ECM8000, given
the shortcomings of Behringer's spec sheet.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

"Tim Padrick" wrote in message

Superluxe ECM 999. Not as cheap as the Behringer, but still
inexpensive, and a better measurement mic (much closer to the
Earthworks than it has a right to be).


http://www.soundfirst.org/audiotoolbox/

http://www.superlux.us/ECM-999.html

It looks exactly like an ECM8000, except for the etched logo. I'm wondering
if we should take this spec sheet as the proper specs for the ECM8000, given
the shortcomings of Behringer's spec sheet.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
It looks exactly like an ECM8000, except for the etched logo. I'm
wondering
if we should take this spec sheet as the proper specs for the ECM8000,
given
the shortcomings of Behringer's spec sheet.

Behringers spec sheet looks just as comprehensive as the Superlux spec sheet
to me.
They do look identical though, except I notice the Behringer is supposedly
600 ohm and the Superlux is 200 ohm. (And Superlux supposedly works down to
9V phantom Vs the15V quoted for the Behringer)
And Soundfirst isn't sure whether the ECM 999 is a 1/4" or 1/2" capsule :-)
I bet they do come out of the same Chinese factory though.

TonyP.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
It looks exactly like an ECM8000, except for the etched logo. I'm
wondering
if we should take this spec sheet as the proper specs for the ECM8000,
given
the shortcomings of Behringer's spec sheet.

Behringers spec sheet looks just as comprehensive as the Superlux spec sheet
to me.
They do look identical though, except I notice the Behringer is supposedly
600 ohm and the Superlux is 200 ohm. (And Superlux supposedly works down to
9V phantom Vs the15V quoted for the Behringer)
And Soundfirst isn't sure whether the ECM 999 is a 1/4" or 1/2" capsule :-)
I bet they do come out of the same Chinese factory though.

TonyP.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
It looks exactly like an ECM8000, except for the etched logo. I'm
wondering
if we should take this spec sheet as the proper specs for the ECM8000,
given
the shortcomings of Behringer's spec sheet.

Behringers spec sheet looks just as comprehensive as the Superlux spec sheet
to me.
They do look identical though, except I notice the Behringer is supposedly
600 ohm and the Superlux is 200 ohm. (And Superlux supposedly works down to
9V phantom Vs the15V quoted for the Behringer)
And Soundfirst isn't sure whether the ECM 999 is a 1/4" or 1/2" capsule :-)
I bet they do come out of the same Chinese factory though.

TonyP.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
It looks exactly like an ECM8000, except for the etched logo. I'm
wondering
if we should take this spec sheet as the proper specs for the ECM8000,
given
the shortcomings of Behringer's spec sheet.

Behringers spec sheet looks just as comprehensive as the Superlux spec sheet
to me.
They do look identical though, except I notice the Behringer is supposedly
600 ohm and the Superlux is 200 ohm. (And Superlux supposedly works down to
9V phantom Vs the15V quoted for the Behringer)
And Soundfirst isn't sure whether the ECM 999 is a 1/4" or 1/2" capsule :-)
I bet they do come out of the same Chinese factory though.

TonyP.

"TonyP" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

It looks exactly like an ECM8000, except for the etched logo. I'm
wondering
if we should take this spec sheet as the proper specs for the
ECM8000, given the shortcomings of Behringer's spec sheet.

Behringers spec sheet looks just as comprehensive as the Superlux
spec sheet to me.

Note that the Behringer spec sheet does not specify the nature of response
below 40 Hz, while SuperLux's does. Given the construction of the
microphones, being a 1/4 capsule in a grooved 1/2" baffle, I find Superlux's
frequency response curve to be more believable.

Note that Behringer lists an "Impedance" which could be load impedance or
source impedance, while Superlux lists a source ("Output") impedance.

Note that Superlux gives a more complete spec for sensitivity.

Note that Superlux gives specs for maximum SPL and residual noise, both of
which I find to be believable, BTW. Behringer doesn't.

Also note that Behringer has supplied at least two distinct products (based
on internal construction) under the same model number without noting any
changes on their spec sheet. I would speculate that their spec sheet more
closely describes the old version.

Here's a picture and schematic of the guts of the "old" ECM 8000:

http://www.imagendv.com/altavoces/micro_med.htm

The newer version of the product is transformer-less, using an IC to drive
its output terminals. I took one of mine apart (not recommended).

They do look identical though, except I notice the Behringer is
supposedly 600 ohm and the Superlux is 200 ohm. (And Superlux
supposedly works down to 9V phantom Vs the15V quoted for the
Behringer) And Soundfirst isn't sure whether the ECM 999 is a 1/4" or
1/2" capsule :-) I bet they do come out of the same Chinese factory
though.

Same factory, seems like. 1/4" capsule, for sure.

"TonyP" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

It looks exactly like an ECM8000, except for the etched logo. I'm
wondering
if we should take this spec sheet as the proper specs for the
ECM8000, given the shortcomings of Behringer's spec sheet.

Behringers spec sheet looks just as comprehensive as the Superlux
spec sheet to me.

Note that the Behringer spec sheet does not specify the nature of response
below 40 Hz, while SuperLux's does. Given the construction of the
microphones, being a 1/4 capsule in a grooved 1/2" baffle, I find Superlux's
frequency response curve to be more believable.

Note that Behringer lists an "Impedance" which could be load impedance or
source impedance, while Superlux lists a source ("Output") impedance.

Note that Superlux gives a more complete spec for sensitivity.

Note that Superlux gives specs for maximum SPL and residual noise, both of
which I find to be believable, BTW. Behringer doesn't.

Also note that Behringer has supplied at least two distinct products (based
on internal construction) under the same model number without noting any
changes on their spec sheet. I would speculate that their spec sheet more
closely describes the old version.

Here's a picture and schematic of the guts of the "old" ECM 8000:

http://www.imagendv.com/altavoces/micro_med.htm

The newer version of the product is transformer-less, using an IC to drive
its output terminals. I took one of mine apart (not recommended).

They do look identical though, except I notice the Behringer is
supposedly 600 ohm and the Superlux is 200 ohm. (And Superlux
supposedly works down to 9V phantom Vs the15V quoted for the
Behringer) And Soundfirst isn't sure whether the ECM 999 is a 1/4" or
1/2" capsule :-) I bet they do come out of the same Chinese factory
though.

Same factory, seems like. 1/4" capsule, for sure.

"TonyP" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

It looks exactly like an ECM8000, except for the etched logo. I'm
wondering
if we should take this spec sheet as the proper specs for the
ECM8000, given the shortcomings of Behringer's spec sheet.

Behringers spec sheet looks just as comprehensive as the Superlux
spec sheet to me.

Note that the Behringer spec sheet does not specify the nature of response
below 40 Hz, while SuperLux's does. Given the construction of the
microphones, being a 1/4 capsule in a grooved 1/2" baffle, I find Superlux's
frequency response curve to be more believable.

Note that Behringer lists an "Impedance" which could be load impedance or
source impedance, while Superlux lists a source ("Output") impedance.

Note that Superlux gives a more complete spec for sensitivity.

Note that Superlux gives specs for maximum SPL and residual noise, both of
which I find to be believable, BTW. Behringer doesn't.

Also note that Behringer has supplied at least two distinct products (based
on internal construction) under the same model number without noting any
changes on their spec sheet. I would speculate that their spec sheet more
closely describes the old version.

Here's a picture and schematic of the guts of the "old" ECM 8000:

http://www.imagendv.com/altavoces/micro_med.htm

The newer version of the product is transformer-less, using an IC to drive
its output terminals. I took one of mine apart (not recommended).

They do look identical though, except I notice the Behringer is
supposedly 600 ohm and the Superlux is 200 ohm. (And Superlux
supposedly works down to 9V phantom Vs the15V quoted for the
Behringer) And Soundfirst isn't sure whether the ECM 999 is a 1/4" or
1/2" capsule :-) I bet they do come out of the same Chinese factory
though.

Same factory, seems like. 1/4" capsule, for sure.

"TonyP" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

It looks exactly like an ECM8000, except for the etched logo. I'm
wondering
if we should take this spec sheet as the proper specs for the
ECM8000, given the shortcomings of Behringer's spec sheet.

Behringers spec sheet looks just as comprehensive as the Superlux
spec sheet to me.

Note that the Behringer spec sheet does not specify the nature of response
below 40 Hz, while SuperLux's does. Given the construction of the
microphones, being a 1/4 capsule in a grooved 1/2" baffle, I find Superlux's
frequency response curve to be more believable.

Note that Behringer lists an "Impedance" which could be load impedance or
source impedance, while Superlux lists a source ("Output") impedance.

Note that Superlux gives a more complete spec for sensitivity.

Note that Superlux gives specs for maximum SPL and residual noise, both of
which I find to be believable, BTW. Behringer doesn't.

Also note that Behringer has supplied at least two distinct products (based
on internal construction) under the same model number without noting any
changes on their spec sheet. I would speculate that their spec sheet more
closely describes the old version.

Here's a picture and schematic of the guts of the "old" ECM 8000:

http://www.imagendv.com/altavoces/micro_med.htm

The newer version of the product is transformer-less, using an IC to drive
its output terminals. I took one of mine apart (not recommended).

They do look identical though, except I notice the Behringer is
supposedly 600 ohm and the Superlux is 200 ohm. (And Superlux
supposedly works down to 9V phantom Vs the15V quoted for the
Behringer) And Soundfirst isn't sure whether the ECM 999 is a 1/4" or
1/2" capsule :-) I bet they do come out of the same Chinese factory
though.

Same factory, seems like. 1/4" capsule, for sure.