I might be buying one of these to record live shows - all I need is a
simple live-to-disk capability for later PC editing, so any of the
fancier HDRs seems overkill - I just need something to capture 8 to 16
tracks of audio reliably and quietly. But I have a few questions:

- I've read that, with some digging, it's possible to upgrade the BIOS
on the MDR to support 32GB drives. Just what is involved?

- Is it possible to route the analog inputs directly to the outputs, so
that I could connect the MDR between the mic snake and the live mixing
board? If so, is it (a) electrically connected (zero latency), (b) just
going through the converters (minimal latency) or (c) processed (hellish
latency)?

- Anybody wanna talk me out of the MDR and into something else that's
better for this application?

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?

Jay Levitt wrote:

- Is it possible to route the analog inputs directly to the outputs, so
that I could connect the MDR between the mic snake and the live mixing
board? If so, is it (a) electrically connected (zero latency), (b) just
going through the converters (minimal latency) or (c) processed (hellish
latency)?

I do know that you will need mic preamps between that mic snake and the MDR.

--
Eric
www.Raw-Tracks.com

Jay Levitt wrote:

- Is it possible to route the analog inputs directly to the outputs, so
that I could connect the MDR between the mic snake and the live mixing
board? If so, is it (a) electrically connected (zero latency), (b) just
going through the converters (minimal latency) or (c) processed (hellish
latency)?

If you can convince ONE sound reinforcement guy to let you do this, I will
buy you dinner at Sardi's.

You really want a splitter, if only because it prevents you from getting
blamed when things go wrong. Honest. You don't want to feed him from
your recorder, or even from the output of your preamps.

- Anybody wanna talk me out of the MDR and into something else that's
better for this application?

It sounds fine to me. Personally, I feel more comfortable with DTRS since
you have a physical tape there, and I'll work on festival and touring gigs
where we record a lot but use very little.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Jay,

Mackie has discontinued both the MDR and the SDR, so you're looking at a
recorder without a lot of future. On the other hand, Mackie has continued to
support their old equipment fairly well, and the forums on www.mackie.com are
excellent. Mike Rivers is also THE MAN when it comes to Mackie. grin

If I were to buy one, I'd be looking for a great price. They are pretty decent
boxes, and you can put a variety of hard disks in them, and use a $20. RH-58
carrier from directron.com to slap the hard disk out of the recorder into your
PC.

-lee-

Feed it from the direct outs on the console. Ideally, you want to use a
console that has had its channels' direct outputs modified so that they are
post trim only (in other words they are pre insert, pre EQ, pre fader) so
that what you get on "tape" is not processed in any way.


"Jay Levitt" wrote in message
...
I might be buying one of these to record live shows - all I need is a
simple live-to-disk capability for later PC editing, so any of the
fancier HDRs seems overkill - I just need something to capture 8 to 16
tracks of audio reliably and quietly. But I have a few questions:

- I've read that, with some digging, it's possible to upgrade the BIOS
on the MDR to support 32GB drives. Just what is involved?

- Is it possible to route the analog inputs directly to the outputs, so
that I could connect the MDR between the mic snake and the live mixing
board? If so, is it (a) electrically connected (zero latency), (b) just
going through the converters (minimal latency) or (c) processed (hellish
latency)?

- Anybody wanna talk me out of the MDR and into something else that's
better for this application?

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?

In article writes:

- I've read that, with some digging, it's possible to upgrade the BIOS
on the MDR to support 32GB drives. Just what is involved?

Officially Mackie doesn't support this upgrade, but it can be done.
You have to buy a new BIOS chip from Mackie and swap out the old BIOS.
Because of Mackie's licensing deal with eSupport (the BIOS company)
you can't flash your existing chip. That part is easy. The hard part
is that you have to change some of the CMOS settings from the defaults
and that's tricky because the MDR doesn't have a place to plug in a
keyboard and monitor.

If you noticed my post earlier this week about CMOS, you might get the
idea that you may not have to dig into your MDR in order to do the
CMOS setup, that it can be done from a disk.

- Is it possible to route the analog inputs directly to the outputs, so
that I could connect the MDR between the mic snake and the live mixing
board? If so, is it (a) electrically connected (zero latency), (b) just
going through the converters (minimal latency) or (c) processed (hellish
latency)?

The inputs are at line level, not mic level, so you can't connect mics
directly to it. There is an input monitor function that sends the
input to the output, but as you suspect, it makes a trip through the
converters. The delay is about 1.6 msec as I recall, insignificant
musically. Typically the way people set it up for concert recording is
to feed the recorder from a mixer's direct outputs or channel insert
outputs.

- Anybody wanna talk me out of the MDR and into something else that's
better for this application?

I think it's wonderful for that application. It's rock solid and it
sounds fine. The disadvantage is that it's a discontinued product.
Although Mackie is hanging on to enough parts to support it with
repairs for a good number of years, don't expect it to get any better
than it is today.

One thing that you should be aware of is that the Mackie HDR and
MDR recorders save a file and start a new one every 15 minutes.
Therefore each track of a one-hour long recording will consit of four
or five files (give or take the length of the 'hour"). There's no data
lost, and they're time stampe broadcast wave files, so if you have
a DAW program that can import them in their time-stamped order,
they'll fit together seamlessly. Of course the playback is seamless.
However, this makes for a large number of files to keep track of.
They're named so you can sort them out, and that's a good thing.

If you have the disk space (which you will if you upgrade the BIOS
and get a larger drive) you can render the tracks, which creates a
new, single file containing all the pieces (and edits or punch-ins if
you've made any) and that makes importing easier. If you plan to
render long recordings, you'll want to add another 128 MB of RAM,
or replace the existing 128 MB stick with a 256 MB stick. It's PC-100
SDRAM.

Someone will probably try to talk you into the Alesis HD24, which is
also a decent choice.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article , says...
I do know that you will need mic preamps between that mic snake and the MDR.

Ermm.. right. of course. Brain hiccup.

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?

In article , says...
If you can convince ONE sound reinforcement guy to let you do this, I will
buy you dinner at Sardi's.

You really want a splitter, if only because it prevents you from getting
blamed when things go wrong.

In this case, I'm also the SR guy, so I'm getting blamed no matter what
However, as was pointed out, since I'm using the preamps in the
console, I pretty much have to run it through the console first anyway.

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?

In article znr1080950953k@trad, says...
- I've read that, with some digging, it's possible to upgrade the BIOS
on the MDR to support 32GB drives. Just what is involved?

If you noticed my post earlier this week about CMOS, you might get the
idea that you may not have to dig into your MDR in order to do the
CMOS setup, that it can be done from a disk.

Oo, excellent - that would certainly be nicer than having to mod the
MDR.

- Is it possible to route the analog inputs directly to the outputs, so
that I could connect the MDR between the mic snake and the live mixing
board? If so, is it (a) electrically connected (zero latency), (b) just
going through the converters (minimal latency) or (c) processed (hellish
latency)?

The inputs are at line level, not mic level, so you can't connect mics
directly to it. There is an input monitor function that sends the
input to the output, but as you suspect, it makes a trip through the
converters. The delay is about 1.6 msec as I recall, insignificant
musically. Typically the way people set it up for concert recording is
to feed the recorder from a mixer's direct outputs or channel insert
outputs.

Yeah, I will probably do that - I obviously wasn't thinking about
mic/line level. Our board's "direct outs" are really inserts, so
they're post-EQ, but I think we have access to a Digimax, so we could
use those pres instead and use lightpipe outs to the MDR, analog outs to
the console... the MDR will accept the standard 8-bus cards to add
digital I/O, right?

I think it's wonderful for that application. It's rock solid and it
sounds fine. The disadvantage is that it's a discontinued product.
Although Mackie is hanging on to enough parts to support it with
repairs for a good number of years, don't expect it to get any better
than it is today.

Which is fine - I just need a solid audio-to-hard-drive interface. I
don't need or want any editing features whatsoever. I already have too
many editors.

One thing that you should be aware of is that the Mackie HDR and
MDR recorders save a file and start a new one every 15 minutes.

Interesting.. well, as long as there's no data loss, no problem.

Someone will probably try to talk you into the Alesis HD24, which is
also a decent choice.

Yeah, but that's still got the 10MB Ethernet, right? Way too slow. I'm
sure I will eventually start using removable drives, but I don't want to
*have* to.

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?

In article writes:

Feed it from the direct outs on the console. Ideally, you want to use a
console that has had its channels' direct outputs modified so that they are
post trim only (in other words they are pre insert, pre EQ, pre fader) so
that what you get on "tape" is not processed in any way.

Funny, but there's a bunch of whiners on the Mackie forum right now
who are complaining because the Onyx direct outputs (and firewire A/D
inputs if that option is installed) come before the EQ and insert
jacks. They're complaining that they can't use the console EQ or
insert a compressor in line with their recording.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Mike Rivers wrote:
In article
writes:

Feed it from the direct outs on the console. Ideally, you want to
use a console that has had its channels' direct outputs modified so
that they are post trim only (in other words they are pre insert,
pre EQ, pre fader) so that what you get on "tape" is not processed
in any way.

Funny, but there's a bunch of whiners on the Mackie forum right now
who are complaining because the Onyx direct outputs (and firewire A/D
inputs if that option is installed) come before the EQ and insert
jacks. They're complaining that they can't use the console EQ or
insert a compressor in line with their recording.

As much as I believe that those are all DAW functions and are best NOT done
on a console, I can see why it would be smart to provide both modes of
operation.

In article writes:

Our board's "direct outs" are really inserts, so
they're post-EQ

Take a good look. Some are post-EQ, some aren't.

but I think we have access to a Digimax, so we could
use those pres instead and use lightpipe outs to the MDR, analog outs to
the console... the MDR will accept the standard 8-bus cards to add
digital I/O, right?

Yes, the MDR, HDR, and d8b share the same I/O cards. If you're a
stickler, you'll want to use the OPT-8 I/O cards (which cost $100 new
and are rarely found second-hand) rather than the DIO-8 ADAT/TDIF
cards (which cost much more new but are often sold second-hand at
nearly giveaway prices). The Lightpipe input and output on the DIO-8
inverts the polarity of the data. This is based on making the d8b
console compatible with playback from the original format ADAT (it's
very complicated to explain, trust me) and was never changed or made
switchable when Alesis changed to non-inverted data on tape.

As I recall, you said you only needed 8 tracks, so a Digimax and an
OPT-8 card would be a good solution. If you needed 16 or more tracks,
you might look for an OPT-24 card which gives you three Lightpipe ins
and outs and installs in the Accessory slot, so you can leave your
analog I/O cards in the machine, selecting analog or digital input or
output in groups of 8 tracks.

Alesis HD24

Yeah, but that's still got the 10MB Ethernet, right? Way too slow. I'm
sure I will eventually start using removable drives, but I don't want to
*have* to.

File transfer from the Ethernet port on the MDR isn't exactly
lightning fast either. I don't know if anyone has ever set up a race
between a Mackie and an Alesis (same project) but I don't know who
would win, or if either would seeem fast. I mix through a real console
so I rarely use my computer along with the HDR. When I was using an
MDR, I occasionally moved a single track over to the computer (quick
enough) through Ethernet to do an edit, then put it back on the MDR. I
installed a mating drive bay in my computer so I could pop the drive
in there, but I've really only used that capability for
experimentation. A number of people are mounting a mating drive bay in
an external Firewire enclosure and using that to move files from the
recorder to the computer. They say it works great.

For a while (maybe still) Alesis was giving away a Firewire dock with
a new HD24, but I think you need to run their software with it, and it
might be Windows only.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Arny Krueger wrote:

Mike Rivers wrote:

In article
writes:


Feed it from the direct outs on the console. Ideally, you want to
use a console that has had its channels' direct outputs modified so
that they are post trim only (in other words they are pre insert,
pre EQ, pre fader) so that what you get on "tape" is not processed
in any way.

Funny, but there's a bunch of whiners on the Mackie forum right now
who are complaining because the Onyx direct outputs (and firewire A/D
inputs if that option is installed) come before the EQ and insert
jacks. They're complaining that they can't use the console EQ or
insert a compressor in line with their recording.


As much as I believe that those are all DAW functions and are best NOT done
on a console, I can see why it would be smart to provide both modes of
operation.

And that's the sort of thing I wouldn't mind opening the case and moving jumpers for.

"Jay Levitt" wrote in message
...
In this case, I'm also the SR guy, so I'm getting blamed no matter what
However, as was pointed out, since I'm using the preamps in the
console, I pretty much have to run it through the console first anyway.

Does your console have direct outs?

TonyP.

"Kurt Albershardt" wrote in message
...
As much as I believe that those are all DAW functions and are best NOT
done
on a console, I can see why it would be smart to provide both modes of
operation.

And that's the sort of thing I wouldn't mind opening the case and moving
jumpers for.

On most mixers you simply use the channel inserts for pre fader/EQ direct
outs, and use the direct outs for post fader/EQ direct outs.

TonyP.

On most mixers you simply use the channel inserts for pre fader/EQ direct
outs, and use the direct outs for post fader/EQ direct outs.

Indeed. One BIG exception is the new Onyx mixers from Mackie. Word from
Mackie is that they take their "direct outs" as well as the digital firewire
outputs *before* the inserts or EQ.

-lee-