Howdy,

I have a friend with an old betamax master tape. I'm looking at picking up a
machine to retrieve this tape, but I thought there might be some different
type of Betaformats. I don't know anything about Betamax. Thought I'd ask
before picking up one those machines.

Thanks for any info/tips.

Larry

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 1:56 PM, Larry wrote:
Howdy,

I have a friend with an old betamax master tape. I'm looking at
picking up a
machine to retrieve this tape, but I thought there might be some
different
type of Betaformats. I don't know anything about Betamax.
Thought I'd ask
before picking up one those machines.

Thanks for any info/tips.

Larry



There is home Betamax, Beta HiFi ( which will play back Betamax) and then
there are PRO Beta formats. Betacam, Beta SP, Digital Betacam, Beta SX, and
i think there is some newer one.

A Beta HiFi would be best if it is a regular Home Betamax tape. If it's a
PCM 501 / PCM601 audio master recorded onto Betamax, you'll need the PCM
converter. I'm not sure if they are compatible with anything other than a
Beta HiFi machine, or if the 501 will play back on the 601.

A Beta HiFi would be best if it is a regular Home Betamax tape.
If it's a PCM 501 / PCM601 audio master recorded onto Betamax,
you'll need the PCM converter. I'm not sure if they are compatible
with anything other than a Beta HiFi machine, or if the 501 will play
back on the 601.

A Beta PCM audio tape (made with a 501, 601, 701, or F1), will play on any
consumer Beta machine (consistent with BI, BII, or BIII track format). A HiFi
machine is not needed.

Any of the processors can be used for playback, regardless of which model was
used to make the recording. Only the 601 has a direct S/PDIF output, though. You
will have to use the internal DACs in the other units.

I have a friend with an old betamax master tape. I'm looking
at picking up a machine to retrieve this tape, but I thought
there might be some different type of Betaformats. I don't
know anything about Betamax. Thought I'd ask before
picking up one those machines.

AGAIN, someone is asking for advice and not providing the information needed.

WHAT kind of Beta "master" tape? We can't tell if we can't see it.

In article ,
William Sommerwerck wrote:

AGAIN, someone is asking for advice and not providing the information needed.

WHAT kind of Beta "master" tape? We can't tell if we can't see it.

To be fair, he did point out that he didn't know if there were different
beta formats. Just pointing that out was probably helpful.

Beta was killed with prejudice, and abruptly, possibly before many of
the folks here were even born. Those of us who remember it, probably
forgot about it by now :-)

To be fair, he did point out that he didn't know if there were
different Beta formats. Just pointing that out was probably
helpful.

Not very. We need specific information. Is there a label on the tape? What are
its dimensions? Is there any indication of what type of tape it is (ie, a
manufacturer's product designation)?

Inquiring minds want to know.

In article 9Djbc.21911$Q45.12098@fed1read02,
james wrote:
Beta was killed with prejudice, and abruptly, possibly before many of
the folks here were even born. Those of us who remember it, probably
forgot about it by now :-)

Either people in this group are very, very young or Sony forgot to
do some killing below sea level (the 1986 price list contains 3 models).

Of course you want U-matic for PCM.


--
Everyone I've met who had any experience with the phenomenon have confirmed my
opinion that if a Ph.D. in computer science knows anything at all about
computers, it's probably pretty much an accident. -- J.D. Baldwin, in asr

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 3:06 PM, William Sommerwerck
wrote:
To be fair, he did point out that he didn't know if there were
different Beta formats. Just pointing that out was probably
helpful.

Not very. We need specific information. Is there a label on the
tape? What are
its dimensions? Is there any indication of what type of tape it is
(ie, a
manufacturer's product designation)?

Inquiring minds want to know.

It doesn't make sense to buy a machine for one tape. If he had a library of
tapes all on the same Beta format, maybe.

It makes more sense to get the tape transferred to a Format that you have,
or can make use of.

That said, playing back old unknown tapes is not a thing i like to do
toany machines that i care about.

Larry wrote:

I have a friend with an old betamax master tape. I'm looking at picking up a
machine to retrieve this tape, but I thought there might be some different
type of Betaformats. I don't know anything about Betamax. Thought I'd ask
before picking up one those machines.

There are dozens of them, if you're talking about PCM audio formats. The
Sony PCM F-1 format was probably the most popular, for which you will need
a Sony 601 decoder if you want to get digital audio off. But there were a
bunch of others as well. Where was it recorded?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

William Sommerwerck wrote:
A Beta HiFi would be best if it is a regular Home Betamax tape.
If it's a PCM 501 / PCM601 audio master recorded onto Betamax,
you'll need the PCM converter. I'm not sure if they are compatible
with anything other than a Beta HiFi machine, or if the 501 will play
back on the 601.

A Beta PCM audio tape (made with a 501, 601, 701, or F1), will play on any
consumer Beta machine (consistent with BI, BII, or BIII track format). A HiFi
machine is not needed.

But you need to be able to disable dropout compensation.

Any of the processors can be used for playback, regardless of which model was
used to make the recording. Only the 601 has a direct S/PDIF output, though. You
will have to use the internal DACs in the other units.

No, some of the processors do not support 16 bit mode. If you record on an
F-1 in 16 bit mode and try to play back with a Technics that only had the
14 bit hardware, it will not play. Also there were some other wacky formats
out there, like the dbx system.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

It doesn't make sense to buy a machine for one tape. If he had a library
of
tapes all on the same Beta format, maybe.

It makes more sense to get the tape transferred to a Format that you
have,
or can make use of.

That said, playing back old unknown tapes is not a thing i like to do
toany machines that i care about.

This is true! My intention is to port it into my workstation, and master it
further. This tape is has a high nostalgic value (fwiw). I had the tape a
few years back, and living in Atlanta, I couldn't find anyplace that could
transfer for me at the time (~1992). I thought maybe I could pick up machine
off eBay, or someplace....this ONE tape is worth that to me and the owner.

Larry

There are dozens of them, if you're talking about PCM audio formats. The
Sony PCM F-1 format was probably the most popular, for which you will need
a Sony 601 decoder if you want to get digital audio off. But there were a
bunch of others as well.

The reason perhaps why I couldn't get it transfered years ago, was the
machines didn't have the PCM format.

Where was it recorded?

In a studio no longer in business, unfortunately.

Thanks for the info.

Larry

The reason perhaps why I couldn't get it transfered years ago,
was the machines didn't have the PCM format.

FINALLY! So it's a digital audio tape, presumably in Sony PCM format. (As the
doorman in "The Wizard of Oz" says, "Why didn't you say so in the first plac?".)

You need a Sony PCM-501, -601, -701, or -F1 processor. Any decent Beta deck
should do for playback, though Scott is correct in pointing out that, if the
machine has dropout compensation, it needs to be shut off. * (Some Betamaxes
have a switch for this, but it's marked as being for digital playback.)

The video output of the VCR feeds the video input of these processors. All
produce an analog output you can record to any audio recorder of any format.

The 601 also has an S/PDIF output that can directly feed any DAC or digital
recorder that can handle a 44.1/16 S/PDIF input stream. (The sampling frequency
is actually 44.058kHz, but the difference is only 0.1%, and the DAC or recorder
will have no trouble locking on.) I've transferred several of my PCM-F1 tapes
directly to DAT with no trouble.

* The reason for this is that the digital encoding system is _designed_ to
correct data loss. If the player replaces a dropped line with "good" data, the
processor can't handle it properly.

Larry wrote:

This is true! My intention is to port it into my workstation, and master it
further. This tape is has a high nostalgic value (fwiw). I had the tape a
few years back, and living in Atlanta, I couldn't find anyplace that could
transfer for me at the time (~1992). I thought maybe I could pick up machine
off eBay, or someplace....this ONE tape is worth that to me and the owner.

If it's a PCM F-1 tape, try Joe at WREK-FM. They have a very large archive
of F-1 tapes and still keep an F-1 machine running for that reason. And they
are local to you.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Larry wrote:

There are dozens of them, if you're talking about PCM audio formats. The
Sony PCM F-1 format was probably the most popular, for which you will need
a Sony 601 decoder if you want to get digital audio off. But there were a
bunch of others as well.

The reason perhaps why I couldn't get it transfered years ago, was the
machines didn't have the PCM format.

WHICH format? There are DOZENS of PCM formats, as I said.

Where was it recorded?

In a studio no longer in business, unfortunately.

WHICH studio no longer in business?

I gather from another message that it was in Atlanta. If it was Master
Sound, it was not a PCM format. If it was Acoustic Recording, it was
14-bit Nakamichi.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

WHICH format? There are DOZENS of PCM formats, as I said.

Don't know. I've gathered from looking around on the web, that it's pretty
complex. I was hoping for an all around answer, like 'xxxxx' machine will
cover most of the formats....is this even possible? Doesn't sound like it.
But I will look up that fellow you mentioned. I greatly appreciate the tip.


Where was it recorded?

In a studio no longer in business, unfortunately.

WHICH studio no longer in business?

The studio was out in Eugene Oregon. The musician that owns the tape has no
knowledge of the whereabouts of the engineer or studio. I realize it would
be extremely helpful. Also she is just not in a position to research this
out and have it done herself.

Thanks for everyones help

Larry wrote:

WHICH format? There are DOZENS of PCM formats, as I said.

Don't know. I've gathered from looking around on the web, that it's pretty
complex. I was hoping for an all around answer, like 'xxxxx' machine will
cover most of the formats....is this even possible? Doesn't sound like it.
But I will look up that fellow you mentioned. I greatly appreciate the tip.

No, there is no answer like that. This was not an era of standardization.
The PCM 601 will handle the major three formats, but it won't handle all
of them. And there were also several digital audio formats that used Beta
tapes that weren't even PCM-based, like the dbx machines.

Where was it recorded?

In a studio no longer in business, unfortunately.

WHICH studio no longer in business?

The studio was out in Eugene Oregon. The musician that owns the tape has no
knowledge of the whereabouts of the engineer or studio. I realize it would
be extremely helpful. Also she is just not in a position to research this
out and have it done herself.

Okay, so it was an unknown studio in Eugene. Does she even know the name
of it? Is there ANY identifying information on the tape?

The one place that I know of which would have a good chance of identifying
it by eye and which had a variety of different machines just closed a
couple months ago.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Why don't you just send me the tape, and I'll dub it directly to DAT (if it's
possible).

Larry wrote:

The studio was out in Eugene Oregon. The musician that owns the tape has no
knowledge of the whereabouts of the engineer or studio. I realize it would
be extremely helpful. Also she is just not in a position to research this
out and have it done herself.

Can you come up with even the _name_ of the engineer? Not everybody who
used to use such formats has died yet, and soem of the survivors even
have Internet access. We might be able to find somebody if we had a
name. Not kidding.

--
ha

William Sommerwerck wrote:

Why don't you just send me the tape, and I'll dub it directly to DAT (if it's
possible).

How about because it took you a half mile into the thread to grok that
it was a digital tape and that, as Scott D has pointed out, there are
scads of data formats that fit onto that physical format and at this
point there is no guarantee that your assumptions of how it can be
played back are appropriate? You asked. Why don't we just keep trying to
squeeze out more info to see if we can pin it down better?

--
ha

The studio was out in Eugene Oregon. The musician that owns the tape has
no
knowledge of the whereabouts of the engineer or studio. I realize it
would
be extremely helpful. Also she is just not in a position to research this
out and have it done herself.

Okay, so it was an unknown studio in Eugene. Does she even know the name
of it?

Nope. Was actually a private studio, and the guy's disappeared......

Is there ANY identifying information on the tape?

The one place that I know of which would have a good chance of identifying
it by eye and which had a variety of different machines just closed a
couple months ago.
--scott

Bummer. Was it an Atlanta/Geogia area outfit?

Thanks for the info/education.

Larry
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

For what it's worth, last week a friend asked if I had any tape left
from a session he did here in 1988. I dug three Beta/PCM tapes out of
the antique Victrola cabinet where such things are stored, put then in
the VCR with the PCM adapter attached (which is still in regular use
recording radio programs) and they didn't play worth a hoot. Wouldn't
maintracking for more than a couple of seconds.

I didn't want to "exercise" them (which sometimes helps) for fear of
making the problem worse. He says that Dave Glasser of Airshow has had
pretty good success in getting old, problem Beta tapes to track. And
of course since this sort mistracking rarely happens in the same place
twice, it's possible that with several playings and recording into a
DAW, complete takes could be assembled.

Obviously that's a tedious project.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Larry wrote:
The studio was out in Eugene Oregon. The musician that owns the tape has
no
knowledge of the whereabouts of the engineer or studio. I realize it
would
be extremely helpful. Also she is just not in a position to research this
out and have it done herself.

Okay, so it was an unknown studio in Eugene. Does she even know the name
of it?

Nope. Was actually a private studio, and the guy's disappeared......

How about the guy's name?

Is there ANY identifying information on the tape?

The one place that I know of which would have a good chance of identifying
it by eye and which had a variety of different machines just closed a
couple months ago.

Bummer. Was it an Atlanta/Geogia area outfit?

No, it was in NYC.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article znr1080949249k@trad, Mike Rivers wrote:

For what it's worth, last week a friend asked if I had any tape left
from a session he did here in 1988. I dug three Beta/PCM tapes out of
the antique Victrola cabinet where such things are stored, put then in
the VCR with the PCM adapter attached (which is still in regular use
recording radio programs) and they didn't play worth a hoot. Wouldn't
maintracking for more than a couple of seconds.

If you watched the video, did it look right? Was it constantly losing
synch? Does your VCR have a skew control by any chance?

I didn't want to "exercise" them (which sometimes helps) for fear of
making the problem worse. He says that Dave Glasser of Airshow has had
pretty good success in getting old, problem Beta tapes to track. And
of course since this sort mistracking rarely happens in the same place
twice, it's possible that with several playings and recording into a
DAW, complete takes could be assembled.

I never had any of these problems with Ampex 641. Just say no to helical
scan.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Larry wrote:

The one place that I know of which would have a good chance of identifying
it by eye and which had a variety of different machines just closed a
couple months ago.


Bummer. Was it an Atlanta/Geogia area outfit?


Doug Oade is in Thomasville, GA and might be able to help. http://www.oade.com/

Why don't you just send me the tape, and I'll dub it directly to DAT (if it's
possible).

How about because it took you a half mile into the thread to grok that
it was a digital tape and that, as Scott D has pointed out, there are
scads of data formats that fit onto that physical format and at this
point there is no guarantee that your assumptions of how it can be
played back are appropriate? You asked. Why don't we just keep
trying to squeeze out more info to see if we can pin it down better?

Because, first of all, the poster said it was a master tape. It could have been
a video tape, for all we knew (even though this is nominally an audio group).

Second, there aren't that many formats. Toshiba and one other company (Sharp?)
made digital processors similar to the PCM-F1, but I don't know if their formats
were the same or different.

I can tell the difference between PCM-F1 and dbx 700 just by looking at the
video output, but I doubt anyone could distinguish the PCM-F1 from other PCM
formats that way.

Third, the poster told me the tape was labelled Apex (probably Ampex) L-500,
which suggests it's a standard consumer Beta tape.

You're playing the old Greek game -- talking about something rather than
actually doing it. The only way we're going to figure this out is to actually
put it in a Beta VCR, and seeing whether a Sony processor can handle it.

William Sommerwerck wrote:
a video tape, for all we knew (even though this is nominally an audio group).

Second, there aren't that many formats. Toshiba and one other company (Sharp?)
made digital processors similar to the PCM-F1, but I don't know if their formats
were the same or different.

Technics also. Nak rebadged the Technics machines but the Nak rebadged
machines can't always play Technics tapes. The Technics will play the
Sony tapes and vice-versa, but not always (and there are still the 14/16
bit things).

Plus there was the dbx bitstream thing, which also used Beta videotapes,
and a handful of wacky things that you don't see too often like the one
Argos made.

For the most part you find stuff in 16 bit Sony format, but not always.

I can tell the difference between PCM-F1 and dbx 700 just by looking at the
video output, but I doubt anyone could distinguish the PCM-F1 from other PCM
formats that way.

You should be able to tell the difference between the 14 and 16 bit ones
on the screen from the pattern, since there are an integral number of samples
per line. I never tried this, though.

But the first key, yes, is to put it up on the screen and see what it looks
like.

Third, the poster told me the tape was labelled Apex (probably Ampex) L-500,
which suggests it's a standard consumer Beta tape.

You're playing the old Greek game -- talking about something rather than
actually doing it. The only way we're going to figure this out is to actually
put it in a Beta VCR, and seeing whether a Sony processor can handle it.

Agreed. If there is no information of any sort, this is probably the only
thing you can do.

Don't forget to check to see if there is anything on the Hi-Fi tracks as well.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 2 Apr 2004 20:47:43 -0500, (Mike Rivers) wrote:


For what it's worth, last week a friend asked if I had any tape left
from a session he did here in 1988. I dug three Beta/PCM tapes out of
the antique Victrola cabinet where such things are stored, put then in
the VCR with the PCM adapter attached (which is still in regular use
recording radio programs) and they didn't play worth a hoot. Wouldn't
maintracking for more than a couple of seconds.

I didn't want to mention this for fear of being too negative, but
a consumer videotape of maybe twenty years ago will likely shed
lots of gooey oxide all over the place. Absolutely *none* of my
Sony brand tapes from 1980-ish would play reliably in 1995-ish.
Much the same for other folks' tapes I knew, even with cleaning
every few minutes.

Hoping of course for better luck for the OP.

Chris Hornbeck
"Since when are you here to be entertained? I don't care what they're
talking about. All I want is a nice fat recording."
- Harry Caul (Gene Hackman) in The Conversation (1974)

Mike Rivers wrote:

For what it's worth, last week a friend asked if I had any tape left
from a session he did here in 1988. I dug three Beta/PCM tapes out of
the antique Victrola cabinet where such things are stored, put then in
the VCR with the PCM adapter attached (which is still in regular use
recording radio programs) and they didn't play worth a hoot. Wouldn't
maintracking for more than a couple of seconds.

I didn't want to "exercise" them (which sometimes helps) for fear of
making the problem worse. He says that Dave Glasser of Airshow has had
pretty good success in getting old, problem Beta tapes to track. And
of course since this sort mistracking rarely happens in the same place
twice, it's possible that with several playings and recording into a
DAW, complete takes could be assembled.

Obviously that's a tedious project.

There's a company in NYC that does recovery of all kinds of tape, audio
& video, and does a lot of work for PBS. Only reason I know about their
work is they've been taking care of duping to modern digital a lot of
old stuff recorded or shot in the '70's around Austin and AWHQ for Eddie
Wilson's Armadillo Special Interest Group history project. I've seen
lots of stuff they've handled, including myself onstage at a festival in
South Texas in 1972. I don't know their name off the so-called top of my
head, but they might be a good resource for this mystery tape recovery
project. If somebody here doesn't know of them I could find out their
points of contact.

--
ha

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:00:05 -0800, james wrote
(in message 9Djbc.21911$Q45.12098@fed1read02):

Beta was killed with prejudice, and abruptly, possibly before many of
the folks here were even born. Those of us who remember it, probably
forgot about it by now :-)
--------------------------------snip----------------------------------

Not exactly true. Sony only "officially" stopped marketing Betamax consumer
decks about three or four years ago. But I'd say it's fair to say that
Betamax's real fall occurred when Sony opted to make their own VHS decks,
right around 1987-1988.

That's only 16 years ago, and I suspect most of the people who are on this
newsgroup are probably older than that.

Plus, Beta does survive in the form of a half-dozen pro broadcast formats.
Same basic cassette shell, still 1/2" tape, with drastic signal refinements
and a change in tape formulation.

--MFW

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:14:26 -0800, Scott Dorsey wrote
(in message ):

Plus there was the dbx bitstream thing, which also used Beta videotapes,
and a handful of wacky things that you don't see too often like the one
Argos made.
--------------------------------snip----------------------------------

Naaaa, I never saw a dbx digital audio tape that used Beta or Betamax tapes.
For a time, 20th Century-Fox mastered the audio tracks of many of their 1980s
films for home video in this weird format, and we had to occasionally deal
with them. (I'm guessing it was Fox, but the more I think about it, it might
have been Cannon. It's been awhile.)

But I can tell you that 99% of the dbx digital tapes that came in were on
time-coded 3/4" tapes. The trick is that they had to play in exact sync with
the 1" analog videotape masters. You couldn't do that easily with Betamax,
because (to my knowledge) Sony never made a Betamax with a timecode market or
an RS-422 remote connection. There are VHS and S-VHS decks with both,
however, so VHS would be a better possibility.

Weird, these strange formats that crawl back up from out of nowhere, just
when you think they've been dead and buried for a decade and a half...

--MFW

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:11:39 -0800, hank alrich wrote
(in message ):

There's a company in NYC that does recovery of all kinds of tape, audio
& video, and does a lot of work for PBS.
--------------------------------snip----------------------------------

That would be this place:

VidiPax
450 West 31st Street - 4th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 563-1999 - voice
(212) 563-1994 - fax
Email:
http://www.vidipax.com/

Their website seems to be broken at the moment, but I have run into them at
SMPTE shows in the past, and they seem to be pretty hip. They're the only
place I know of that can play back all kinds of real weird 1" and 1/2" video
formats, up to and including obscure Ampex and Sony industrial stuff from the
1970s. Betamax tapes are trivial for them, but their work ain't cheap.

I don't know if they can handle audio as well, but I bet they might. I seem
to recall the last time I saw them at SMPTE or AES, they had a Webcor wire
recorder on display at their booth, and said they had recently done a project
where they did several hundred hours of wire-recorder transfers for the
Smithsonian.

--MFW

Technics also. Nak rebadged the Technics machines but the
Nak rebadged machines can't always play Technics tapes.
The Technics will play the Sony tapes and vice-versa, but not
always (and there are still the 14/16 bit things).

I'm a bit (ar, ar) confused. The Nakamichi DMP-100 was a Sony PCM-F1 with a few
capacitor replacements. I had several tapes made on a PCM-F1 loaner, and it
played them fine.

Not exactly true. Sony only "officially" stopped marketing
Betamax consumer decks about three or four years ago.
But I'd say it's fair to say that Betamax's real fall occurred
when Sony opted to make their own VHS decks, right
around 1987-1988.

Sony added insult to injury when it introduced the "high-band" version of
Betamax (I forget the name) in the early '90s. The list price was something over
$1500, totally alienating hundreds of thousands of Betaphiles who would happily
have bought such a machine if it had cost half that.

Naaaa, I never saw a dbx digital audio tape that used Beta
or Betamax tapes. For a time, 20th Century-Fox mastered
the audio tracks of many of their 1980s films for home video
in this weird format, and we had to occasionally deal with them.
(I'm guessing it was Fox, but the more I think about it, it might
have been Cannon. It's been awhile.)

The dbx 700 could record on any (???) video recorder. I reviewed the 700 for
Stereophile and used a portable consumer Beta recorder. It worked fine.

Disney used the 700 for audio mastering as well.

Marc,

Thanks for the info. I will keep them in mind.

Larry

"Marc Wielage" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:11:39 -0800, hank alrich wrote
(in message ):

There's a company in NYC that does recovery of all kinds of tape, audio
& video, and does a lot of work for PBS.
--------------------------------snip----------------------------------

That would be this place:

VidiPax
450 West 31st Street - 4th Floor
New York, NY 10001
(212) 563-1999 - voice
(212) 563-1994 - fax
Email:
http://www.vidipax.com/

Their website seems to be broken at the moment, but I have run into them
at
SMPTE shows in the past, and they seem to be pretty hip. They're the only
place I know of that can play back all kinds of real weird 1" and 1/2"
video
formats, up to and including obscure Ampex and Sony industrial stuff from
the
1970s. Betamax tapes are trivial for them, but their work ain't cheap.

I don't know if they can handle audio as well, but I bet they might. I
seem
to recall the last time I saw them at SMPTE or AES, they had a Webcor wire
recorder on display at their booth, and said they had recently done a
project
where they did several hundred hours of wire-recorder transfers for the
Smithsonian.

--MFW

In article writes:

If you watched the video, did it look right? Was it constantly losing
synch? Does your VCR have a skew control by any chance?

Didn't watch it. The VCR has a tracking control and the PCM 501 has a
tracking meter. The meter wouldn't stay stable. You could kind of
chase it around with the tracking control but not keep it stable.

I never had any of these problems with Ampex 641. Just say no to helical
scan.

There was a time when everyone was saying "yes" to helical scan. How
long do you expect your DA-38 tapes to last?



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

But the first key, yes, is to put it up on the screen and see what it looks
like.

If someone told me that it was an audio recording and it was from the
later half of the '80's, I'd first assume that it was a PCM-F1 (EIAJ)
format, and try to play it that way. If it wasn't, I'd listen to the
audio coming out of the VCR to see if it was Beta HiFi, or even just
plain Beta audio (yuck!).


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

I didn't want to mention this for fear of being too negative, but
a consumer videotape of maybe twenty years ago will likely shed
lots of gooey oxide all over the place.

That isn't the problem with these. After playing the tape
unsuccessfully, I opened up the VCR to look for evidence of deposited
goo and didn't find any, just the normal little bit of oxide powder
that you'd expect.

It's been pretty well established that this format doesn't play
reliably after about 10 years, so I guess these are now "project"
tapes. I always meant to copy them over to DAT, but since they're
other people's tapes just here for "safe"keeping, I never bothered.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

VidiPax
450 West 31st Street - 4th Floor
New York, NY 10001

I don't know if they can handle audio as well, but I bet they might.

I think I saw those guys at an AES show a while back. Art Shiffrin,
the wire recorder guru, built a machine for them.

All the really have to do is make a good clean copy of the video and
it should play as audio. After all, that's all it is. But this isn't
my gig. If someone else wants to spend a lot of money getting them
played, it's a resource I can pass along. I only mentioned the
experience as a data point that even if the original poster finds out
what format his tape actually is, it may not be recoverable without
more cost than most "nostalgia" is worth.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo