Next question...

On a disscussion I claimed that tape saturation is only a hype today
to get more loudness and compression.

I cannot assume that the older engineers used this so often in the
good old days[tm] where wheels turned around in the studio. Even for
Rockmusik. I think if they cared about quality they would not want to
produced distortion by tape sat.

Am I right?

Thomas wrote
I cannot assume that the older engineers used this so often in the
good old days[tm] where wheels turned around in the studio. Even for
Rockmusik. I think if they cared about quality they would not want to
produced distortion by tape sat.

Am I right?

I think not there Tom, tape has some warmth that digital has a hard time
reproducing, I use a DAW but would love to have a nice tape machine as my
studio grows.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:22:06 -0800, ThomasT wrote:

Next question...

On a disscussion I claimed that tape saturation is only a hype today
to get more loudness and compression.

I cannot assume that the older engineers used this so often in the
good old days[tm] where wheels turned around in the studio. Even for
Rockmusik. I think if they cared about quality they would not want to
produced distortion by tape sat.

And guitarists cared about 'quality', they would not use fuzz boxes.

It's about getting the right sound... If you use the same tape machine
and tape make for a few years, you get to know what it does when you push
it. Yes, you can get loudness and compression of a sort from doing it, and
it sounds different from using compressors or limiters.

I have not found any tape simuation plugins that do the same thing... they
just seem to be disguised fuzz boxes. With tape there is not such a sense
of a threshold of distortion, you could get it hot, but not fuzzed. With
the plugins, they seem to either clip or be clean, and to not bend the
signal enough when it's at a lower level to sound like tape to me.


Am I right?

aymond wrote:
Thomas wrote
I cannot assume that the older engineers used this so often in the
good old days[tm] where wheels turned around in the studio. Even for
Rockmusik. I think if they cared about quality they would not want to
produced distortion by tape sat.

Am I right?

Traditionally recordists tried to reproduce sounds, not to create new
ones. And folks from that tradition have tended to keep levels nice and
low and stay well away from the point where tape starts sounding nasty.

BUT, you also have to realize that in the fifties and early sixties, there
were no good limiters, so people doing pop stuff that was supposed to jump
out at you in a jukebox would often run the tape really hot in order to
clip the peaks off. Sounded nasty to me, but it was loud all right. Today
we can do a lot better.

I think not there Tom, tape has some warmth that digital has a hard time
reproducing, I use a DAW but would love to have a nice tape machine as my
studio grows.

That warmth has nothing to do with overloading. That sound stays there
even at 185 nW/m.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

scott wrote
That warmth has nothing to do with overloading. That sound stays there
even at 185 nW/m.

Yes, I know what your saying here Scott but doesn't it sound much less harsh
than what you get from a digital source?
I know form using a (I know it's cheep) four track recorder how different the
sonics are from my DAW. And even an old TEAC reel from way back in my youth had
a nice sound (if you know what I mean) if you clipped it a bit.

Raymond wrote:
scott wrote
That warmth has nothing to do with overloading. That sound stays there
even at 185 nW/m.

Yes, I know what your saying here Scott but doesn't it sound much less harsh
than what you get from a digital source?

Depends on the digital source. And depends on how you set the tape machine
up. I can underbias GP-9 and make it harsher than the worst bad digital gear
if you want.

My point is that tape overloading has very little to do with the good tape
sound. There are a lot of great things about tape sound, but overloading the
tape is a fairly recent phenomenon for the most part.

I know form using a (I know it's cheep) four track recorder how different the
sonics are from my DAW. And even an old TEAC reel from way back in my youth had
a nice sound (if you know what I mean) if you clipped it a bit.

On most of those machines, the record electronics clipped long before modern
tapes saturate. That's a still different sound.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

On most of those machines, the record electronics clipped long before modern
tapes saturate. That's a still different sound.

Sounds like herasy for the
tape-saturation-phat-analoge-sound-freaks...

philicorda wrote:

And guitarists cared about 'quality', they would not use fuzz boxes.
It's about getting the right sound... If you use the same tape machine

No, I don't mean that it cannot be used as a kind of
compression/overdrive effect.
I mean that tape saturation is not the reason for the great sound of
older records.
And using tape saturation only does not make a good loud sound.

I have not found any tape simuation plugins that do the same thing... they
just seem to be disguised fuzz boxes. With tape there is not such a sense
of a threshold of distortion, you could get it hot, but not fuzzed. With
the plugins, they seem to either clip or be clean, and to not bend the
signal enough when it's at a lower level to sound like tape to me.


Am I right?



Ever play with a Crane Song HEDD?
It can be a fuzz box, but that isn't its best use.

I saw, I listened, I bought.


Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 16:25:15 +0000, Richard Kuschel wrote:


I have not found any tape simuation plugins that do the same thing... they
just seem to be disguised fuzz boxes. With tape there is not such a sense
of a threshold of distortion, you could get it hot, but not fuzzed. With
the plugins, they seem to either clip or be clean, and to not bend the
signal enough when it's at a lower level to sound like tape to me.


Am I right?



Ever play with a Crane Song HEDD?

Not yet....
Ouch! A little expensive. One to hire I think.

It can be a fuzz box, but that isn't its best use.

I saw, I listened, I bought.


Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

ThomasT wrote:

Next question...

On a disscussion I claimed that tape saturation is only a hype today
to get more loudness and compression.

I cannot assume that the older engineers used this so often in the
good old days[tm] where wheels turned around in the studio. Even for
Rockmusik. I think if they cared about quality they would not want to
produced distortion by tape sat.

Am I right?

No. The brits couldn't do real drums until the understood how the yanks
did it, i. e. recorded drums at 0 VU. Analog tape is so easy to
transfer, just assume that it will contain peaks up until some 10 dB
above 320 nW, it usually always does no matter what the VU meters
display(ed).


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Raymond wrote:

Thomas wrote
I cannot assume that the older engineers used this so often in the
good old days[tm] where wheels turned around in the studio. Even for
Rockmusik. I think if they cared about quality they would not want to
produced distortion by tape sat.

Am I right?

I think not there Tom, tape has some warmth that digital has a hard time
reproducing, I use a DAW but would love to have a nice tape machine as my
studio grows.

Get a dual CPU daw if one CPU does not provide adequate heating.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************