I bought a fairly nice temp controlled soldering iron a while back. To
date I have only used it for wiring, speakers, mic cables, patchbay
stuff.

I usually set it around 600 F and that seems to work pretty well.

Now I need to use it to unsolder and install/solder some faders in my
console.

The faders are in their own tray, but the connection at the upper end
is pretty close to the channel PCB.

Is there an optimal soldering temp for getting a good joint, but not
overheating nearby components?

I don't need to do any PCB work at the moment, but when soldering on a
PCB is there a max temp not to go over?

The manual that came with the unit just explains what the knobs and
display does, no recommendations on temps for soldering.

Thanks,

Analogeezer

p.s. The main reason I bought this (actually I got it as a gift) was
not so much to set it on "Temp X", but so that I could see when the
iron actually recovered it's set temp. As it turns out it recovers
pretty fast and maintains temp very well, another reason why I got it.

I've never damaged anything simply by proximity. You can't transmit enough heat
energy by radiation to do much damage.

In my experience, unsoldering requires more heat than soldering. I turn the iron
"all the way to 11" when unsoldering, and let it go through a few on/off cycles
to make sure there's a good build-up of phlogiston in the tip.

It goes without saying that the tip should be clean, and your Soldapult should
be locked and in-position. If the joint doesn't melt promptly, try touching a
bit of fine solder to the iron, to get things started.

The maximum temperature for unsoldering PCB boards seems to depend more on trace
thickness than board material. Some traces are so thin they detach and curl up
almost the moment you touch the iron to them.

"Analogeezer" wrote in message
. ..
I bought a fairly nice temp controlled soldering iron a while back. To
date I have only used it for wiring, speakers, mic cables, patchbay
stuff.

I usually set it around 600 F and that seems to work pretty well.

Now I need to use it to unsolder and install/solder some faders in my
console.

The faders are in their own tray, but the connection at the upper end
is pretty close to the channel PCB.

Is there an optimal soldering temp for getting a good joint, but not
overheating nearby components?

I don't need to do any PCB work at the moment, but when soldering on a
PCB is there a max temp not to go over?

The manual that came with the unit just explains what the knobs and
display does, no recommendations on temps for soldering.


I've always used 650° F for circuit board work with no problems with either
chips or PCB.

Sean

Subject: Soldering Temperatures?
From: (Analogeezer)
Date: 3/31/04 10:24 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

I bought a fairly nice temp controlled soldering iron a while back. To
date I have only used it for wiring, speakers, mic cables, patchbay
stuff.

I usually set it around 600 F and that seems to work pretty well.

Now I need to use it to unsolder and install/solder some faders in my
console.

The faders are in their own tray, but the connection at the upper end
is pretty close to the channel PCB.

Is there an optimal soldering temp for getting a good joint, but not
overheating nearby components?


Most component manufacturer's guidelines for hand soldering recommend solder
tip temperatures between 350 and 380 degree's C. (approx. 650 to 720 degrees
F) It varies in general between those boundaries depending upon the thermal
mass, or heatsinking capacity, of what it is you are trying to solder.


I don't need to do any PCB work at the moment, but when soldering on a
PCB is there a max temp not to go over?


Yes, I wouldn't go over the upper limit above, maybe 750F, or you risk
delaminating the traces from the substrate. Start at the lower limit, and wack
it up a notch if you need to.

The manual that came with the unit just explains what the knobs and
display does, no recommendations on temps for soldering.

Thanks,

Analogeezer

p.s. The main reason I bought this (actually I got it as a gift) was
not so much to set it on "Temp X", but so that I could see when the
iron actually recovered it's set temp. As it turns out it recovers
pretty fast and maintains temp very well, another reason why I got it.

Generally, I work between 650 and 680 degree's. Cooler, and you risk
cold-solder joints. Hotter, delaminating the board traces, or damaging
sensitive components. Look for good activation of the flux, indicated by the
presence of white smoke, and shiny joint surfaces.

You don't want the tip in contact with the board/component interface for too
long or too short a time. 1.5 to 4 secs max. If it doesn't work by then,
clean your tip, tin it with a little solder, then try again. If it isn't
getting hot enough for the solder to flow easily and the flux to activate, then
its time to turn up the temp a little more.

Don't go over 750 degrees unless you are soldering some honking big cable or a
very large ground plane on a board.

Enjoy the new soldering Iron.

Also, I recommend while you are getting the feel for this, that you work under
magnification. When everything is really big you can see how the solder flows
and interacts with the flux, and if you are leaving any voids. It's the best
way to really get the hang of it. 3X to 5X magnification works well.

These guys make superior soldering products: http://www.interfluxusa.com/

that's my two cents worth

phillip sztenderowicz

(Analogeezer) wrote in message ...
I bought a fairly nice temp controlled soldering iron a while back. To
date I have only used it for wiring, speakers, mic cables, patchbay
stuff.

I usually set it around 600 F and that seems to work pretty well.

Now I need to use it to unsolder and install/solder some faders in my
console.

The faders are in their own tray, but the connection at the upper end
is pretty close to the channel PCB.

Is there an optimal soldering temp for getting a good joint, but not
overheating nearby components?

I don't need to do any PCB work at the moment, but when soldering on a
PCB is there a max temp not to go over?

The manual that came with the unit just explains what the knobs and
display does, no recommendations on temps for soldering.

Thanks,

Analogeezer

p.s. The main reason I bought this (actually I got it as a gift) was
not so much to set it on "Temp X", but so that I could see when the
iron actually recovered it's set temp. As it turns out it recovers
pretty fast and maintains temp very well, another reason why I got it.


600 to 700 deg F is good.

actually an iron that is too col or not enough power (Watts) will moer
likely overheat the adj circuits...
this is bvecause it will take you a long time to heat the solder and
during this time all the other stuff has a chance to heat up

it seems with a hot and powefull (temp controlled0 iron, you can get
in and get out quickly

so use a an iron that will melt the solder quickly so you are done
before the heat has a chance to spread much

and contrary to logic, it sometimes help to apply solder when un
soldering

it helps the heat conduct to the joint to melt it faster

what you don't want to do is keep the iron on the joint fo ra loing
time, no more than 5 to 10 seconds

On 31 Mar 2004 07:24:29 -0800, (Analogeezer) wrote:

I bought a fairly nice temp controlled soldering iron a while back. To
date I have only used it for wiring, speakers, mic cables, patchbay
stuff.

I usually set it around 600 F and that seems to work pretty well.

Now I need to use it to unsolder and install/solder some faders in my
console.

The faders are in their own tray, but the connection at the upper end
is pretty close to the channel PCB.

Is there an optimal soldering temp for getting a good joint, but not
overheating nearby components?

I don't need to do any PCB work at the moment, but when soldering on a
PCB is there a max temp not to go over?

The manual that came with the unit just explains what the knobs and
display does, no recommendations on temps for soldering.

Thanks,

Analogeezer

p.s. The main reason I bought this (actually I got it as a gift) was
not so much to set it on "Temp X", but so that I could see when the
iron actually recovered it's set temp. As it turns out it recovers
pretty fast and maintains temp very well, another reason why I got it.


It's not so much the temperature, but the mass of the tip, the quality of
contact, and the technique!

I am a bench tech with 35 years experience, and I use a bigger tip then most
people, and always 800 degrees... You may want to work up to that!!

The longer you linger on the joint, the more damage you do. A large F%^$ing hot
tip lets me get in and out in under 2 secs usually, I can solder a 16 pin DIP
in under 25 seconds...

For installing, make sure everything is CLEAN, even the solder... For
de-soldering, always use more solder and touch solder the contact between the
iron and lead to get a thermal bridge... the difference is amazing!

Wipe the tip EVERY time on a wet sponge, not just now and then.

And either rent or invest in a solder sucking machine, don't use those hand held
plastic **** suckers... they're the best way to ruin things! They bounce off the
joint when you fire them, and they don't cool the joint, or get all the solder.
So you keep at it, heating the same joint and screwing it up, and scraping off
the foil on boards. The machine pump will get all the solder AND cool the joint
by drawing cool air. Don't forget to use small gauge solder to wet the joint
before de soldering it with the machine as well. It sounds weird to add more to
suck up but it really works.

For circuit boards, you want to use the smallest tip you can get away with to
avoid heating up lots of foil, but it MUST be damn hot to get the joint fast.
Some boards just like to separate so be careful.

BTW the latest solder station I use is RF, and heats the tip with VHF energy in
the 150mhz band, and it heats up and cools down instantly! I can leave the tip
against the board to hold the part while it cools... neat stuff!


Bob
Unger school graduate

It's not so much the temperature, but the mass of the tip, the quality of
contact, and the technique!

I am a bench tech with 35 years experience, and I use a bigger tip then
most
people, and always 800 degrees... You may want to work up to that!!

The longer you linger on the joint, the more damage you do. A large
F%^$ing hot
tip lets me get in and out in under 2 secs usually, I can solder a 16 pin
DIP
in under 25 seconds...

For installing, make sure everything is CLEAN, even the solder... For
de-soldering, always use more solder and touch solder the contact between
the
iron and lead to get a thermal bridge... the difference is amazing!

Wipe the tip EVERY time on a wet sponge, not just now and then.

And either rent or invest in a solder sucking machine, don't use those
hand held
plastic **** suckers... they're the best way to ruin things! They bounce
off the
joint when you fire them, and they don't cool the joint, or get all the
solder.

I agree totally. More boards are ruined by people with underpowered, unclean
irons. And the soldapults - **** suckers is right. The inertial kick from
those infernal things will just destroy. I built my own vacuum pump,
solenoid valved sucker system. I use disposible small lumen tubing to grab
the solder. Another aid to keep around is a bottle of liquid rosin flux.
That and a little solder on the tip really speeds things up when
desoldering. I prefer Weller TCP stations, 700 deg tips are all I have ever
used for over 30 years, no complaints except the heaters and switches keep
getting more and more expensive. Tips are dirt cheap on Ebay, I probably
have enough to last me forever.
Best regards,
Tom

600 to 700 deg F is good.

actually an iron that is too col or not enough power (Watts) will moer
likely overheat the adj circuits...
this is bvecause it will take you a long time to heat the solder and
during this time all the other stuff has a chance to heat up

it seems with a hot and powefull (temp controlled0 iron, you can get
in and get out quickly

so use a an iron that will melt the solder quickly so you are done
before the heat has a chance to spread much

and contrary to logic, it sometimes help to apply solder when un
soldering

it helps the heat conduct to the joint to melt it faster

what you don't want to do is keep the iron on the joint fo ra loing
time, no more than 5 to 10 seconds




I wqas once told to use a 23 wattiron for circuit board work. DON'T DO IT!!!

I burnjed more traces with that.

I finally got a variable temp controlled TENMA and use it in the 550-600 degree
range and haven't had problems since. No idea how accurate the gauge is.

Get it hot fast and get out! Don't leave temp on the board for a long time.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

t.hoehler wrote:

I agree totally. More boards are ruined by people with underpowered, unclean
irons. And the soldapults - **** suckers is right. The inertial kick from
those infernal things will just destroy. I built my own vacuum pump,
solenoid valved sucker system. I use disposible small lumen tubing to grab
the solder. Another aid to keep around is a bottle of liquid rosin flux.
That and a little solder on the tip really speeds things up when
desoldering. I prefer Weller TCP stations, 700 deg tips are all I have ever
used for over 30 years, no complaints except the heaters and switches keep
getting more and more expensive. Tips are dirt cheap on Ebay, I probably
have enough to last me forever.
Best regards,
Tom

I also use Weller TCP. But I tend to use the "7" tip (I assume it's
700 degrees) on lighter work, and a "8" on making cables. The 8 is a bit
hot, but I don't get any cold joints---though sometimes the plastic
parts of the connectors get a bit stinky. As for removing solder, I just
have this cheap little bicycle pump type thing that I push in the spring,
and I hit a release button at the right time and it sucks the solder out.
It's not great, but it works. And it was cheap.

Is there such a thing as a 7.5 TCP for Weller?

Rob

Primaudio wrote:


Most component manufacturer's guidelines for hand soldering recommend solder
tip temperatures between 350 and 380 degree's C. (approx. 650 to 720 degrees
F) It varies in general between those boundaries depending upon the thermal
mass, or heatsinking capacity, of what it is you are trying to solder.

I tend to like to work hotter than that, because I can work faster. Even
on PC board stuff I will tend to crank up to around 800'F. I find that my
chances of lifting pads are reduced a lot because I can work so quickly,
though the consequences of a dirty iron are even worse at the higher
temperature. I also like using a little extra liquid rosin flux.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Primaudio wrote:


Most component manufacturer's guidelines for hand soldering recommend solder
tip temperatures between 350 and 380 degree's C. (approx. 650 to 720 degrees
F) It varies in general between those boundaries depending upon the thermal
mass, or heatsinking capacity, of what it is you are trying to solder.

I tend to like to work hotter than that, because I can work faster. Even
on PC board stuff I will tend to crank up to around 800'F. I find that my
chances of lifting pads are reduced a lot because I can work so quickly,
though the consequences of a dirty iron are even worse at the higher
temperature. I also like using a little extra liquid rosin flux.

I totally agree with you there Scott.

A well tinned nice hot iron will get the job done fast and subject other areas to
minimal heating.

If you have a 'solder sucker' beware of the 'recoil action'. It can be the tip of
the solder sucker that can damage pads. They can be extremely useful though esp
when dealing with removing large amounts of solder.

I'll agree with the 'add a little bit of fresh solder' advice too depending on
situation. Remember that you need to be able to transfer heat to the rework item
as quickly as possible and for as little time as possible. A bit of extra solder
may well help.

I've found that the excellent 'Soder Wick' brand of desoldering wick impregnated
with rosin flux works really well too.

Selecting the right size tip for the job is vital too !

Lastly - if the item you're removing is known to be trashed / has no further
economic value - it makes sense to carefully 'destroy' it - so each leg can be
individually removed which is *so* much easier.

Graham

Rob Reedijk wrote:

t.hoehler wrote:

I agree totally. More boards are ruined by people with underpowered, unclean
irons. And the soldapults - **** suckers is right. The inertial kick from
those infernal things will just destroy. I built my own vacuum pump,
solenoid valved sucker system. I use disposible small lumen tubing to grab
the solder. Another aid to keep around is a bottle of liquid rosin flux.
That and a little solder on the tip really speeds things up when
desoldering. I prefer Weller TCP stations, 700 deg tips are all I have ever
used for over 30 years, no complaints except the heaters and switches keep
getting more and more expensive. Tips are dirt cheap on Ebay, I probably
have enough to last me forever.
Best regards,
Tom

I also use Weller TCP. But I tend to use the "7" tip (I assume it's
700 degrees) on lighter work, and a "8" on making cables. The 8 is a bit
hot, but I don't get any cold joints---though sometimes the plastic
parts of the connectors get a bit stinky. As for removing solder, I just
have this cheap little bicycle pump type thing that I push in the spring,
and I hit a release button at the right time and it sucks the solder out.
It's not great, but it works. And it was cheap.

Is there such a thing as a 7.5 TCP for Weller?

If only !

I've seen 700 tips cause *literally* cold solder joints on TO-220 devices
especially for some reason that look perfect to the eye - but the component legs
acted as heatsinks and chilled the solder before it could alloy to the leg. 6
months later you could literally pull the component out of the pcb. Come to think
of it the TO-220 devices were mounted on a large heatsink too - so there was a
large thermal mass behind them.

Personally I prefer 800 - esp for small tips - but then I solder pretty quickly.
It also helps to turn the iron off when not using it with an 800 tip as the tip
rapidly oxidises.

Graham

p.s. very many yrs ago a colleague told me of '2nd source' tips for TCPs that
indeed seemed to be superior in terms of longevity - plating quality I guess.
Anyone got any ideas who that was ?

Selecting the right size tip for the job is vital, too!

Smaller tips usually need higher temperatures, because their thermal capacity is
smaller.

William Sommerwerck wrote:

Selecting the right size tip for the job is vital, too!

Smaller tips usually need higher temperatures, because their thermal capacity is
smaller.

Very true.

Possibly the least well understood aspect of soldering generally is the issue of
thermal mass. A large tip at 700F may well do a good job on heavy duty printed
boards. Small stuff is different.

Just used a 0.8? mm TCP 800 tip today actually on a very tightly packed ( part SMT )
pcb.

Thank God for the Soder-Wick too !

Graham

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...


William Sommerwerck wrote:

Selecting the right size tip for the job is vital, too!

Smaller tips usually need higher temperatures, because their thermal
capacity is
smaller.

Very true.

Possibly the least well understood aspect of soldering generally is the
issue of
thermal mass. A large tip at 700F may well do a good job on heavy duty
printed
boards. Small stuff is different.

Just used a 0.8? mm TCP 800 tip today actually on a very tightly packed
( part SMT )
pcb.

Thank God for the Soder-Wick too !

Ever had solder-wick on an exposed pad or trace? I'm just an amateur bench
tech so I'll admit that I have and the resulting mess was beyond
description. Solder-wick is great stuff, just watch where you use it.

Sean

Thank God for the Soder-Wick, too!

Agreed. It quickly removes stuff (especially from small joints) that a vacuum
device has trouble with.

I use a Pace SX70 SoldrXtractor and always de-solder at 800 deg. F
I also put a small swipe of rosin flux on the joint before going for it.

I solder with a Pace ST25 and keep it at around 700 deg F.

rf

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:46:34 -0500, "Sean Conolly"
wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...


William Sommerwerck wrote:


Thank God for the Soder-Wick too !

I love solder wick, but I don't love the price!! That stuff is thru the roof
here...


Ever had solder-wick on an exposed pad or trace? I'm just an amateur bench
tech so I'll admit that I have and the resulting mess was beyond
description. Solder-wick is great stuff, just watch where you use it.

I've used solder wick to clean up the foil on boards with no problem... but it
depends on the board. Some of the old stuff was just tinned copper traces, quite
heavy duty, and you can go over the whole board, sliding the wick along with the
iron, to clean it up like new.

Don't try that on a green-coat board!!

But you know what I REALLY HATE?? Boards where the hole is exactly the size of
the lead, and not only can you not suck the solder, you have to pull the lead
out with pliers!! I think they don't drill holes first, they just shoot the
parts in with an air gun...


Sean

From: Bob

BTW the latest solder station I use is RF, and heats the tip with VHF energy
in
the 150mhz band, and it heats up and cools down instantly! I can leave the
tip
against the board to hold the part while it cools... neat stuff!


Is that one of the new FM series Hakko's?

Phillip Sztenderowicz

From: Pooh Bear


p.s. very many yrs ago a colleague told me of '2nd source' tips for TCPs
that
indeed seemed to be superior in terms of longevity - plating quality I guess.
Anyone got any ideas who that was ?


Probably these guys: http://www.platoproducts.com/

Cheers,

Phillip

Primaudio wrote:

From: Pooh Bear


p.s. very many yrs ago a colleague told me of '2nd source' tips for TCPs
that
indeed seemed to be superior in terms of longevity - plating quality I guess.
Anyone got any ideas who that was ?


Probably these guys: http://www.platoproducts.com/


Wow ! And they do a '7.5' tip too !

Cheers, Graham