I bought a mic at Sam Ash yesterday but the thing's a pos and am going to
take it back. However, the salesman really went out of his way to be
helpful, and took a lot of time to assist me. So, I don't want him to lose
out. Any idea what kind of commission those guys get? I thought about
"tipping" him $10 (it's a $100 mic).

I bought a mic at Sam Ash yesterday but the thing's a POS
and am going to take it back. However, the salesman really
went out of his way to be helpful, and took a lot of time to
assist me. So, I don't want him to lose out. Any idea what
kind of commission those guys get? I thought about
"tipping" him $10 (it's a $100 mic).

That's a very gracious attitude. (On two occasions I sent extra money to eBay
sellers because they had done such an exceptional, time-consuming job of packing
the items I bought.) Would that more customers treated salespeople that way.

There are several ways to look at the situation.

It's his job to be helpful and assist you. There's no need to "tip" him for
this service, even if you change your mind.

If he'd been doing his job properly, he'd have figured out the mic didn't fit
your needs, and you wouldn't have bought it. (That is, his help and interest
were directed solely at getting you to buy, not to helping you make the right
choice.)

Like everyone else, he needs to eat, so if you intend to make him your
regular salesman, it might be a good idea to grease his palm, to show how much
you value his exceptional service.

It's your call, because only you know the dynamics of the situation. But I know
from having worked as a salesman that most dealers -- even in "fancy" stores --
want you to spend as little time as possible with the customer. I was chewed out
on more than one occasion for not doing so.

In article et writes:

I bought a mic at Sam Ash yesterday but the thing's a pos and am going to
take it back. However, the salesman really went out of his way to be
helpful, and took a lot of time to assist me.

Rather than "tip" him, why not just buy a different mic from him? That
way he'll get his commission and you'll have a mic.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1080747615k@trad...

In article et
writes:

I bought a mic at Sam Ash yesterday but the thing's a pos and am going
to
take it back. However, the salesman really went out of his way to be
helpful, and took a lot of time to assist me.

Rather than "tip" him, why not just buy a different mic from him? That
way he'll get his commission and you'll have a mic.

At the moment, I'm not feeling quite as magnanimous as I was. When I went to
return the mic, after the conferring with some manager in the back room who
I never saw, the guy at the return counter tried to give me some ration of
crap about only giving store credit on mics, that it's their policy that
they don't give refunds on mics "due to health regulations". He further
started in about how they actually weren't supposed to take it back at all,
as if he was doing me a favor by even giving me store credit.

There's a return policy printed out on the back of the receipt, which
includes a section labeled "exceptions". There's not a word about mics, this
alleged store credit only policy, nor is there any such sign posted
anywhere. The original salesman even told me that I had 14 days to return
it. When I started to get demonstrably irate, the assistant manageress who
was up front told the flunky at the return counter that it would be okay.

I don't see how the manager can arbitrarily claim some "store policy" and
countermand what their own official document (the policy printed on the
receipt) spells out, especially when an assistant manager could so quickly
dismiss this so-called policy without even conferring with the store
manager. Further, what store will stand there and tell me they're "not
supposed to take a return" on a defective item that was bought less than 24
hours ago? It wasn't like I was some scuzzball crack addict coming in there
to try and pull a fast one. I can't imagine that if someone took them to
court over it, that this store policy would hold up in light of what's
printed on their receipt.

Apparently their computer system didn't indicate that I'd bought several
items there in the past, or if it did, it carried no weight. Unless it's
something I absolutely have to have and can't wait, I'll be sure not to make
the same mistake in the future. Screw Sam Ash.

"Doc" wrote in message
k.net...
Apparently their computer system didn't indicate that I'd bought several
items there in the past, or if it did, it carried no weight. Unless it's
something I absolutely have to have and can't wait, I'll be sure not to
make
the same mistake in the future. Screw Sam Ash.

I've had the same problem with the Sam Ash in my area. If I'm buying
anything substantial, I drive the extra 1/2 hour to the nearest Guitar
Center.

I once waited for 45 minutes for the salesperson to show up in the recording
department at Sam Ash. There were probably 10 to 15 people mulling about
trying to buy things.

Finally someone got fed up and walked over to the guitar department and
convinced a salesman to come over and help him. The salesman said something
like, "If you just wanna buy something I can help you, but if you need any
questions answered, I don't know anthing about this stuff. We don't have a
salesman in this department right now." Now, I don't know if the salesman
just called in sick, or quit or just sleeping in the back room, but that's
pretty screwed up.

Stu.

In article t writes:

At the moment, I'm not feeling quite as magnanimous as I was. When I went to
return the mic, after the conferring with some manager in the back room who
I never saw, the guy at the return counter tried to give me some ration of
crap about only giving store credit on mics, that it's their policy that
they don't give refunds on mics "due to health regulations".

This is a common tactic. Microphones are easy to "borrow" for a weekend
session or gig and return the next week. They don't like to be a free
loaner shop. There are a number of dealers who will allow you have a
reasonable trial period on a microphone at your studio because they
know it's the best way for you to know if it's the right mic for you.
Music stores, hoever, have been taken advantage of often enough so
that they want to discourage this.

However, don't be mad at the salesman. It's not his policy, it's the
store's. He'd just doing his job, and he probably really is doing you
a favor by taking it back for store credit.

The original salesman even told me that I had 14 days to return
it. When I started to get demonstrably irate, the assistant manageress who
was up front told the flunky at the return counter that it would be okay.

Then it all worked out and you were lucky. Perhaps the salesman wasn't
aware of the policy, or maybe he figured that you weren't the type to
take advantage of them and if you returned the mic it would be to get
a different one.

Further, what store will stand there and tell me they're "not
supposed to take a return" on a defective item that was bought less than 24
hours ago?

Was it actually defective? Sounds like you wouldn't have been happy if
they gave you a different one of the same model.

Apparently their computer system didn't indicate that I'd bought several
items there in the past, or if it did, it carried no weight.

If you regularly bought from the same salesman and he knew you, he
probably would have never mentioned the no-return policy, just taken
it back, and taken the risk of getting yelled at and reminding the
manager that you were HIS customer and he wanted you to continue to be
his customer.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article . net writes:

I've had the same problem with the Sam Ash in my area. If I'm buying
anything substantial, I drive the extra 1/2 hour to the nearest Guitar
Center.

Guitar Center was the frist place I'd heard of that had a "no returns
on microphones" policy, but I understand that most stores no longer
enforce that policy.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Doc"
I don't see how the manager can arbitrarily claim some "store policy" and
countermand what their own official document (the policy printed on the
receipt) spells out, especially when an assistant manager could so quickly
dismiss this so-called policy without even conferring with the store
manager

Doc, what I do when dealing with SA or GC or any chain store which has
worked for me so far is

1. Find a sales person with a brain, who wants to help me, and who maybe is a
department manager or at least has some "juice".

2. Get a verbal agreement before I take something home about returning it
for whatever reason.

3. Sort out problems with that same guy.

I have had GC offer to let me take home pretty expensive stuff that way.
And even though technically it's against most music chain store's return
policy, they can override that if they know you're credible, and not just
"borrowing gear" so you can record with it and then bringing it back.
Establishing credibility and a relationship with a salesperson is pretty
important for this reason, a good reputation has it's perks.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1080768945k@trad...

In article . net
writes:

I've had the same problem with the Sam Ash in my area. If I'm buying
anything substantial, I drive the extra 1/2 hour to the nearest Guitar
Center.

Guitar Center was the frist place I'd heard of that had a "no returns
on microphones" policy, but I understand that most stores no longer
enforce that policy.

The ones in Colorado claimed that it was a state law, but I could find
nothing in several hours of searching the online documentation.

Glenn D.

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1080768865k@trad...


However, don't be mad at the salesman. It's not his policy, it's the
store's. He'd just doing his job, and he probably really is doing you
a favor by taking it back for store credit.

The guy I bought it from wasn't there. I only dealt with the return desk
flunky and some assistant manageress. They're not doing me a "favor" when I
insist that they abide by the stated return policy that's printed on their
receipt which I'm sure has the status of a legal document. I'm not a lawyer
but I don't see how they can have a "store policy" that's not posted
anywhere, and even it were, or if it were simply verbal, if it contradicts
what's on that receipt, it only makes sense to me that the printed policy as
put out by corporate would take precedence. Further, I'm sure there are
state statutes regarding the matter and they certainly can't try to operate
outside of those. This particular store is in an "economically depressed"
area, and I'm sure they have gold-toothed homies trying to scam them daily
but that's not my problem. They're sensitive about being ripped off, great,
so am I.

Besides, this "health code" bull**** doesn't hold water. Whether they give a
refund or store credit, they're still taking it back, so they must do
something with it, I assume they don't throw it away.

Then it all worked out and you were lucky. Perhaps the salesman wasn't
aware of the policy,

This guy's been there a while, at least a couple of years. That's an "old
timer" from what I've seen of these places.

Further, what store will stand there and tell me they're "not
supposed to take a return" on a defective item that was bought less than
24
hours ago?

Was it actually defective? Sounds like you wouldn't have been happy if
they gave you a different one of the same model.

Yes, it was defective. When you first played into it, it wouldn't respond
until you hit it with some serious signal, then all of a sudden it came
alive, until you let it sit idle for a while, then it wouldn't respond
again. I don't know if the diaphragm was "sticking" somehow or what the
cause was but it clearly wasn't behaving correctly. When it was working, it
didn't sound any different than the other mic of the same line that I
already have, which btw I bought from them... The one I already have is a
Marshall MXL 1006, this new one was an MXL V67. So, no, I wouldn't have
been happy with a different one.

guitar center (and i would guess sam ash) has had the "no mic returns
due to health regulations" in effect for years.

i did return a kick drum mic once (that big evolution sennheiser 602
or whatever the model number). i was adamant. i said "this thing
sucks, there was no way to demo it in the store. and it's completely
obvious this mic has nothing to due with vocals, so don't even think
of invoking the 'health clause' on me".

when i bought an expensive vocal mic from there, i demoed it in the
store to be sure. brought my own preamp in, headphones, etc. took
over their mix-studio demo center area. did this on a slow weekday
night so i wouldn't be interfering with other potential sales.

if a store can't do a live demo, what's the point of the store? might
as well buy online.

for example, guitar center has adopted a policy of "no soundcard
returns". now that is *completely* unfair. you can't "pirate" a
soundcard, and with all the known computer conflicts out there, it's
simply not fair to think you'll bat 100% on such a purchase.

so for example i needed a little soundcard to do some midi stuff. i
bought from newegg.com. it was cheaper than guitar center, and they
accept returns on the item. i feel no loyalty to guitar center in
this type of purchase, because they give none to me. you gotta give
to get.

i'm a big fan of being able to return something. i read those fine
prints and ask very deliberate questions. completely overkill
questions like "so i can return this item within 30 days. even if i
opened the box and tried it. and if i return it i will get a full
cash refund, not store credit. so this is a real return policy, not
some thing with hidden restrictions, right? and no restocking fees,
correct?"

In article et writes:

The guy I bought it from wasn't there. I only dealt with the return desk
flunky and some assistant manageress.

That can be the start of a problem. Those people are there to see that
you DON'T return things.

They're not doing me a "favor" when I
insist that they abide by the stated return policy that's printed on their
receipt which I'm sure has the status of a legal document.

You'd have to spend more money in legal fees to find out for sure.
Maybe they just need to update their documentation. The receipts at
Staples are clear that the return policy on laptop computers is
different from everything else, and that software is only exchangeable
for another copy of the same program and not returnable. But if you
were to ask a clerk "what's your return policy?" chances are the
answer you'd get is "30 days. Keep your reciept."

Besides, this "health code" bull**** doesn't hold water. Whether they give a
refund or store credit, they're still taking it back, so they must do
something with it, I assume they don't throw it away.

Of course they don't. But they can't sell it as brand new any more
(though I'm sure that happens) so it costs them money to take a
return. They may be able to return it to the manufacturer but they
don't usually do that for small items.

Yes, it was defective. When you first played into it, it wouldn't respond
until you hit it with some serious signal, then all of a sudden it came
alive, until you let it sit idle for a while, then it wouldn't respond
again.

That sounds defective to me and there should have been no question
about them exchanging it for another one.

When it was working, it
didn't sound any different than the other mic of the same line that I
already have, which btw I bought from them... The one I already have is a
Marshall MXL 1006, this new one was an MXL V67. So, no, I wouldn't have
been happy with a different one.

Well then that was your fault for not checking it out before you
bought it. To be brutally honest, if I was looking for a different
sounding microphone, I would get something that was clearly different,
not just a different model from the same manufacturer. Those two
models don't sound quite the same, but they're similar enough so that
it makes more sense to buy what you bought if you wanted something
similar, not something different. Where did you do your research?

The problem with doing business with music stores is that they assume
you already know what you want becuase they really aren't equipped to
let you try it out. I don't know how you're supposed to know what you
want, but that's the assumption. I guess too much mail order
influence. Anyway, at least you got what you wanted, and hopefully
you've learned something about shopping for pro audio equipment, not
just "Don't buy from Sam Ash."


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Mike Rivers" wrote
This is a common tactic. Microphones are easy to "borrow" for a weekend
session or gig and return the next week. They don't like to be a free
loaner shop. There are a number of dealers who will allow you have a
reasonable trial period on a microphone at your studio because they
know it's the best way for you to know if it's the right mic for you.
Music stores, hoever, have been taken advantage of often enough so
that they want to discourage this.

And it is pretty difficult to sell a microphone after it has been used in
your average pub gig. Smoke and beer doesn't give it that new microphone
smell.

Anthony Gosnell

In article ,
anthony.gosnell wrote:

And it is pretty difficult to sell a microphone after it has been used in
your average pub gig.

Until it's been used for 20 years, then it'll sell for 5 figures.

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1080747615k@trad...
In article et writes:

I bought a mic at Sam Ash yesterday but the thing's a pos and am going to
take it back. However, the salesman really went out of his way to be
helpful, and took a lot of time to assist me.

Rather than "tip" him, why not just buy a different mic from him? That
way he'll get his commission and you'll have a mic.

Because a $10 tip is $10 in his pocket, whereas you'd have to buy a
$750 mic to give him a bigger commission than that.

In article writes:

Rather than "tip" him, why not just buy a different mic from him? That
way he'll get his commission and you'll have a mic.

Because a $10 tip is $10 in his pocket, whereas you'd have to buy a
$750 mic to give him a bigger commission than that.

But that doesn't tell the store manager that the salesman is doing his
job.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Rather than "tip" him, why not just buy a different mic from
him? That way he'll get his commission and you'll have a mic.

Because a $10 tip is $10 in his pocket, whereas you'd have
to buy a $750 mic to give him a bigger commission than that.

But that doesn't tell the store manager that the salesman is
doing his job.

In this particular case, I don't think the manager would want to know the
salesman spent so much time on a single purchase -- and worse, that the item was
returned.

I used to have my own account manager at BMG Music Club. She told me that a
friend of hers worked at AT&T. After said friend had gone out of her way to help
a customer, and the customer wrote a thank-you letter to AT&T -- the friend was
called on the carpet for it.

(xy) wrote in message . com...

so this is a real return policy, not
some thing with hidden restrictions, right? and no restocking fees,
correct?"

Again, I'm no attorney, but if it's not in writing on their official
return policy, I don't see how they can claim otherwise. In the case
of Sam Ash, their return policy is printed, albeit in very light ink,
on the back of their receipt.

This would probably be an excellent thing to research with the state
attorney general's office or whoever handles consumer issues of this
nature. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of places try to pull crap
like this assuming that the majority of customers don't know any
better. I'm sure if you can quote state statutes chapter and verse for
the store manager they're going to feel a lot less like arguing the
point.

I once got a speeding ticket that I believed was bogus and after
researching the matter, found out I was absolutely right - it was
regarding where they were using their radar gun in relation to a
school zone. I also found out this was a scam the cops had pulling for
years at this same spot. They also had a way to avoid being called on
it. If both cops didn't show up in court, the ticket got thrown out
automatically, so they couldn't "lose" in court over it. They'd
written countless tickets at this same spot over the years. However, I
think someone got word of it since I've never seen them at that same
spot ever since.

ospam (WillStG) wrote:


and not just
"borrowing gear" so you can record with it and then bringing it back.
Establishing credibility and a relationship with a salesperson is pretty
important for this reason, a good reputation has it's perks.


From the perspective of a pro audio store owner, these means a lot.
With customers I know I can trust (and there are a lot of them), it's
like store 'policies' don't exist at all.

Nathan Eldred
http://www.atlasproaudio.com