i am currently using a roland vs1880, which i like and know how to
use. however, i just bought an IBM T40, centrino 1.5ghz, 5200rpm hdd,
etc., and i am wondering if i should consider moving to a laptop-based
system now. perhaps picking up something like the edirol usb2.0
10-in, 10-out interface, and maybe PT-LE (using external HV3 preamps).
so, i have a few questions:
1. would i see a sonic improvement over the 1880? are the converters
in the edirol better than the converters inthe roland?
2. which USB 2.0 interface is recommended these days?
3. how good are the standard reverb and delay plugins compared with
the roland effects? do i need to purchase better plugins?
4. what is the best software to start with? PT-LE? how steep is the
learning curve for DAW software?
5. will a 5200rpm hdd be adequate for 6-8 tracks at a time?
6. can i run it straight in XP-Pro, or do i absolutely have to setup
a dual-boot system?
7. what else do i need to know/consider?
thanks.

For the work you do, I'd seriously look at Samplitude instead of Pro
Tools... I can't comment about the Edirol interface. You may want to
examine something like the RME multiface (with the cardbus card for it)
which would certainly be a pretty sizable step up from the Roland.

I don't use a laptop, but I do use a shuttle form-factor PC for my
recordings now (with Samplitude and Sequoia on the machine)... It has been
outfitted with a Lynx 2C card and modified to make it quite quiet. I use
Windows XP Pro as my OS. For pictures of my setup go to:
http://photos.yahoo.com/fifthcircle2004 My setup is a turnkey built by
www.sequoiadigital.com but it wouldn't be difficult for somebody to do that
as a DIY project.

In Samplitude, you'll find that the native effects are quite good-
especially the room simulation (reverb). Also, you'll find some very usable
EQs, compressors/limiters, denoising, FFT filters and a bunch of other stuff
that you may or may not find useful for your work. There are also some very
good editing capabilities with the program.

--Ben

--
Benjamin Maas
Fifth Circle Audio
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.fifthcircle.com

Please remove "Nospam" from address for replies

"jnorman" wrote in message
om...
i am currently using a roland vs1880, which i like and know how to
use. however, i just bought an IBM T40, centrino 1.5ghz, 5200rpm hdd,
etc., and i am wondering if i should consider moving to a laptop-based
system now. perhaps picking up something like the edirol usb2.0
10-in, 10-out interface, and maybe PT-LE (using external HV3 preamps).
so, i have a few questions:
1. would i see a sonic improvement over the 1880? are the converters
in the edirol better than the converters inthe roland?
2. which USB 2.0 interface is recommended these days?
3. how good are the standard reverb and delay plugins compared with
the roland effects? do i need to purchase better plugins?
4. what is the best software to start with? PT-LE? how steep is the
learning curve for DAW software?
5. will a 5200rpm hdd be adequate for 6-8 tracks at a time?
6. can i run it straight in XP-Pro, or do i absolutely have to setup
a dual-boot system?
7. what else do i need to know/consider?
thanks.

Bear in mind PT LE requires you to use Digidesign hardware (eg 001, oo2,
MBox) connected to your PC/Mac before it will operate.
Ray
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
"Benjamin Maas" wrote in message
news:w7H6c.41776$1p.601275@attbi_s54...
For the work you do, I'd seriously look at Samplitude instead of Pro
Tools... I can't comment about the Edirol interface. You may want to
examine something like the RME multiface (with the cardbus card for it)
which would certainly be a pretty sizable step up from the Roland.

I don't use a laptop, but I do use a shuttle form-factor PC for my
recordings now (with Samplitude and Sequoia on the machine)... It has
been
outfitted with a Lynx 2C card and modified to make it quite quiet. I use
Windows XP Pro as my OS. For pictures of my setup go to:
http://photos.yahoo.com/fifthcircle2004 My setup is a turnkey built by
www.sequoiadigital.com but it wouldn't be difficult for somebody to do
that
as a DIY project.

In Samplitude, you'll find that the native effects are quite good-
especially the room simulation (reverb). Also, you'll find some very
usable
EQs, compressors/limiters, denoising, FFT filters and a bunch of other
stuff
that you may or may not find useful for your work. There are also some
very
good editing capabilities with the program.

--Ben

--
Benjamin Maas
Fifth Circle Audio
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.fifthcircle.com

Please remove "Nospam" from address for replies

"jnorman" wrote in message
om...
i am currently using a roland vs1880, which i like and know how to
use. however, i just bought an IBM T40, centrino 1.5ghz, 5200rpm hdd,
etc., and i am wondering if i should consider moving to a laptop-based
system now. perhaps picking up something like the edirol usb2.0
10-in, 10-out interface, and maybe PT-LE (using external HV3 preamps).
so, i have a few questions:
1. would i see a sonic improvement over the 1880? are the converters
in the edirol better than the converters inthe roland?
2. which USB 2.0 interface is recommended these days?
3. how good are the standard reverb and delay plugins compared with
the roland effects? do i need to purchase better plugins?
4. what is the best software to start with? PT-LE? how steep is the
learning curve for DAW software?
5. will a 5200rpm hdd be adequate for 6-8 tracks at a time?
6. can i run it straight in XP-Pro, or do i absolutely have to setup
a dual-boot system?
7. what else do i need to know/consider?
thanks.

In article writes:

i am currently using a roland vs1880, which i like and know how to
use. however, i just bought an IBM T40, centrino 1.5ghz, 5200rpm hdd,
etc., and i am wondering if i should consider moving to a laptop-based
system now.

People who "pick up" a laptop computer usually do so because they
intend to use it for all the usual things that a computer is used for.
Is that you? If you picked up the laptop computer with the idea in
mind that it would be reserved as a replacement for your VS1880, that
would be unusual, but commendable. While I'll concede that these days
it's unnecessarily complicated to keep any computer system up to date
without being able to connect that computer to the Internet, that
should be your ONLY other use for your DAW computer if you want to
keep out of trouble. There's no reason to use it to read e-mail, surf
web sites, write letters to Grandma, or play games or listen to
streaming audio while a CD is burning.

perhaps picking up something like the edirol usb2.0
10-in, 10-out interface, and maybe PT-LE (using external HV3 preamps).

Sounds like DAW use of your laptop is kind of incidental since you
apparently haven't thought this thing through.

so, i have a few questions:
1. would i see a sonic improvement over the 1880? are the converters
in the edirol better than the converters inthe roland?

They may or may not be, but I don't think you'll hear a sonic
improvement that will change your life. Do you use the mic preamps on
your VS? Are the ones in the Edirol any better?

2. which USB 2.0 interface is recommended these days?

The one that came with your computer.

3. how good are the standard reverb and delay plugins compared with
the roland effects? do i need to purchase better plugins?

What's "standard" is a function of the software you buy. Some are
pretty good, some are just functional. Everyone wants to add more
plug-ins. Roland now has a board which allows VST (I think) plug-ins
to run on the VS series. Have you considered getting that and buying
some plug-ins, or are you satisfied with what's in your VS?

4. what is the best software to start with? PT-LE? how steep is the
learning curve for DAW software?

This is wide open. The best way to choose a program is to download
demos and play with them. See what you like. The learning curve is
pretty steep on all of them, but all of them will let you start
recording pretty quickly. What's most difficult for people to learn is
how to equate virtual signal flow with real signal flow. You don't
have boxes and cables, but you have to accomplish the same things, and
sometimes things are pre-assembled in a way that isn't terribly
logical at first.

5. will a 5200rpm hdd be adequate for 6-8 tracks at a time?

Usually

6. can i run it straight in XP-Pro, or do i absolutely have to setup
a dual-boot system?

Most Windows DAW software runs just fine under XP. If you don't take
my warning about gooking up your computer, you might find that an
alternate hardware configuration (a Windows setup thing) will allow
you to get a more streamlined system for audio.

7. what else do i need to know/consider?

Whether you can afford to get no useful work done for a while until
you learn your system and get all the kinks worked out of it. I'd say
set aside six months of reduced productivity and a few hundred more
dollars than you thought you'd spend.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Mike Rivers wrote:

There's no reason to use it to read e-mail, surf
web sites, write letters to Grandma, or play games or listen to
streaming audio while a CD is burning.

Absolutely. If you are going to do this, Commit to using your laptop as a dedicated audio
machine. I use mine exclusively to track. And I use another PC exclusively to edit.

jnorman wrote

perhaps picking up something like the edirol usb2.0
10-in, 10-out interface, and maybe PT-LE (using external HV3 preamps).

As another poster suggested, take a look at the RME Multiface (1 ADAT (8 i/o); SPDIF (2 i/o);
8 analog line in) or the RME Digiface (3 ADAT (24 i/o). http://www.rme-audio.com/

Steinberg Nuendo privately labels the same boxes. Stores such as bayviewproaudio, swee****er
and others sell both. These are highly recommended devices.

3. how good are the standard reverb and delay plugins compared with
the roland effects? do i need to purchase better plugins?

Can't offer a comparison, but Nuendo works well with this hardware and has a number of
standard plugins. You may or may not be happy with them. And you may find, regardless of
quality, that you have become accustomed to and fond of your Roland stuff.

4. what is the best software to start with? PT-LE? how steep is the
learning curve for DAW software?


As Mike said, plenty of choices. I've been happy with Nuendo. People seem to like
Samplitude. All, but the limited functionality free version of ProTools work ONLY with
ProTools hardware. This is why I went the PC, Windows, Nuendo route. I needed more
flexibility. And I determined the RME interface to be a better fit for me than the Digi002.

Nuendo is fairly easy to get up and running on, but like most things, takes some time to reach
advanced proficiency. I'm certainly not there yet. I'm told the new Nuendo 2.0 manual is
very comprehensive. I've not yet upgraded. Hate to mess with something when it works...

5. will a 5200rpm hdd be adequate for 6-8 tracks at a time?


The drive speed alone should not be a problem. Any more than 8-10 tracks and you will
probably need to track to an external firewire drive. That's what I do. Great portability.
Love it.

6. can i run it straight in XP-Pro, or do i absolutely have to setup
a dual-boot system?


Windows XP should be fine. Optimize by following the tweaks at www.musicxp.net. Track to a
separate partition or a firewire drive.

7. what else do i need to know/consider?

Mike Rivers wrote:

Whether you can afford to get no useful work done for a while until
you learn your system and get all the kinks worked out of it. I'd say
set aside six months of reduced productivity and a few hundred more
dollars than you thought you'd spend.

Yes, you may have to do some work and spend some money. But if you make smart choices, the
setup and maintenance is not that difficult. Format and do a fresh install of Win XP PRO.
Make sure it's PRO. Do not install any unneccessary non-audio programs. Follow the tweaks
on musicxp.net closely. XP may sometimes reset things on you. Make a checklist you follow
to look at your settings before recording. My stuff pretty much works out of the box now. I
just defrag regularly. And do a clean format once in a while. Drive imaging software is nice
for this. I love laptop recording and find it very convenient reliable and stable. It's more
what you don't do...rather than what you do.

Please be advised that some laptop cardbus controllers cannot handle multitracking at all and
some cannot support the maximum simultaneous inputs and outputs on your hardware. Some ENE
cardbus controllers are a death sentence for RME hardware. Some 02Micro cardbus controllers
work great for tracking, but may not support 16 in and 16 out simultaneously on RME hardware.
Not a problem for me as I only track with my machine. The Texas Instruments controllers
should be fine. Check your device manager to find your cardbus controller.

Don't be discouraged. You can be very productive with laptop recording. Just do a little
homework and you'll avoid 90% of the missteps before you record your first track.

Tim

Tim Ferrell wrote in message ...
Mike Rivers wrote:

There's no reason to use it to read e-mail, surf
web sites, write letters to Grandma, or play games or listen to
streaming audio while a CD is burning.

For the record (no pun intended):
I bought a laptop (sony vaio p4 2.6ghz 1gig of ram). I use it for
everything from circuit simulation to word processing to multitrack
recording. When I record it's pretty intense, i can do 8 tracks
simultaneously, and when i mix sometimes it's over 50 tracks with tons
of real time effects. I have separate external firewire hard drives,
and I have never had any problems.
I use samplitude with an RME multiface/cardbus, I run antivirus
software, and i maintain the machine regularly.
i don't use the machine professionally, but i do work part time for an
indie making demos and EPs, so the system is pretty robust. The key
is to do the research and put the system together correctly...there
are tons of forums out there just like this one to guide you, and you
have to have the time to screw up and fix it.
just my two cents
Rich

Rich Wilner wrote:

Tim Ferrell wrote in message ...
Mike Rivers wrote:

There's no reason to use it to read e-mail, surf
web sites, write letters to Grandma, or play games or listen to
streaming audio while a CD is burning.

For the record (no pun intended):
I bought a laptop (sony vaio p4 2.6ghz 1gig of ram). I use it for
everything from circuit simulation to word processing to multitrack
recording.

Not to say that you can't successfully run multiple apps and still multitrack, but you significantly
reduce the potential for problems if you run a dedicated audio machine optimized with the publicized
tweaks. And eight tracks is not a real test. Lots of laptops can handle that right out of the box.
You're not really pushing the machine. When you get up to around 12 is when you find out how well your
machine is performing. If you are just starting out in laptop recording, the safest thing to do is to
keep it simple. A clean machine... Otherwise you have too many variables to sort out when you have a
problem.

But hey, Rich has got a machine that works. That's where I started. I found someone successfully
doing the kind of work I wanted to do on a laptop and bought the exact same machine.

Tim

In article writes:

For the record (no pun intended):
I bought a laptop (sony vaio p4 2.6ghz 1gig of ram). I use it for
everything from circuit simulation to word processing to multitrack
recording. When I record it's pretty intense, i can do 8 tracks
simultaneously, and when i mix sometimes it's over 50 tracks with tons
of real time effects. I have separate external firewire hard drives,
and I have never had any problems.

Just wait. If it has a CPU in it, some day it will screw you.

just my two cents

And mine.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1079728537k@trad...
.... While I'll concede that these days
it's unnecessarily complicated to keep any computer system up to date
without being able to connect that computer to the Internet, that
should be your ONLY other use for your DAW computer if you want to
keep out of trouble...

Which is lot to ask. I solve the problem by having two boot drives --
one for dedicated audio use, the other for everything else.

(Rich Wilner) wrote:

I bought a laptop (sony vaio p4 2.6ghz 1gig of ram). I use it for
everything from circuit simulation to word processing to multitrack
recording. When I record it's pretty intense, i can do 8 tracks
simultaneously, and when i mix sometimes it's over 50 tracks with tons
of real time effects. I have separate external firewire hard drives,
and I have never had any problems.
I use samplitude with an RME multiface/cardbus, I run antivirus
software, and i maintain the machine regularly.

Rich is the man. The trick is not so much the laptop but the fact that
Samplitude plus RME Multiface is unbeatable. Just make sure your
CardBus controller is compatible (check the RME site).

However, if you are travelling internationally, please note that Sony
will not honour their warranty outside the region you bought the
laptop in. I guess they haven't clued in to what a laptop is for!

Check the fine print and confirm with the vendor.

-- robin

Rich is the man.

I have been telling people this for years. it is nice to see it
acknowledged.
haha

Samplitude plus RME Multiface is unbeatable. Just make sure your
CardBus controller is compatible (check the RME site).

this is not totally true. I should qualify my response by stating
that i hvae never had hardware problems. Samplitdue, especially
versions 7.12 and 7.21, certainly made me tear my hair out more than
once. I have lost some seriously good takes because of samp's bugs
surrounding 24-bit file handling. Those are not fun conversations to
have with clients.
However the newest version 7.22 seems to be more benign (so far).
p.s. the RME is totally awesome and bug-free, in my experience. I
highly recommend it, as it is robust, compact, flexible, and sounds
wonderful.
Rich

"Rich Wilner" wrote in message ...
this is not totally true. I should qualify my response by stating
that i hvae never had hardware problems. Samplitdue, especially
versions 7.12 and 7.21, certainly made me tear my hair out more than
once. I have lost some seriously good takes because of samp's bugs
surrounding 24-bit file handling. Those are not fun conversations to
have with clients.
However the newest version 7.22 seems to be more benign (so far).
p.s. the RME is totally awesome and bug-free, in my experience. I
highly recommend it, as it is robust, compact, flexible, and sounds
wonderful.
Rich

That being said... The only problems I've had are when I've switched between
versions. All of my projects that were started in 7.2x have been
bullet-proof. The ones started in 7.12 caused some problems, but as long as
they were never re-opened in 7.12 after going to 7.2x, I've been fine.

--Ben


--
Benjamin Maas
Fifth Circle Audio
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.fifthcircle.com

Please remove "Nospam" from address for replies

Tim Ferrell wrote:
If you are just starting out in laptop recording, the safest thing to do is to
keep it simple. A clean machine...That's where I started. I found someone successfully
doing the kind of work I wanted to do on a laptop and bought the exact same machine.

What machine is that? I am thinking of getting a Multiface and your
experience could save me some big bucks. Model please?
Thanks

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:00:17 GMT, Tim Ferrell
wrote:

Rich Wilner wrote:

Tim Ferrell wrote in message ...
Mike Rivers wrote:

There's no reason to use it to read e-mail, surf
web sites, write letters to Grandma, or play games or listen to
streaming audio while a CD is burning.

For the record (no pun intended):
I bought a laptop (sony vaio p4 2.6ghz 1gig of ram). I use it for
everything from circuit simulation to word processing to multitrack
recording.

Not to say that you can't successfully run multiple apps and still multitrack, but you significantly
reduce the potential for problems if you run a dedicated audio machine optimized with the publicized
tweaks. And eight tracks is not a real test. Lots of laptops can handle that right out of the box.
You're not really pushing the machine. When you get up to around 12 is when you find out how well your
machine is performing. If you are just starting out in laptop recording, the safest thing to do is to
keep it simple. A clean machine... Otherwise you have too many variables to sort out when you have a
problem.

But hey, Rich has got a machine that works. That's where I started. I found someone successfully
doing the kind of work I wanted to do on a laptop and bought the exact same machine.

Tim

wrote:

What machine is that? I am thinking of getting a Multiface and your
experience could save me some big bucks. Model please?
Thanks

Fujitsu Lifebook E7110 and it's out of production.. Be advised that RME maintains that this machine is not
fully compatible with their hardware because it does not support simultaneous 24 ins and 24 outs on the
Digiface. I have absolutely no use for 24 simultaneous ins and outs as I use this machine to track. I have
successfully tracked 21 -24 tracks with it 10 or 12 times while monitoring without a single hiccup. And
I've done some demo work with it playing back 8 tracks while laying down two.

To be safe, look for a machine that uses a TI cardbus controller. The ENE controllers are bad news. The
Fujitsu has an 02micro (sp?) cardbus controller and works flawlessly for my application. RME has very
stringent definitions for how they define compatibility so your mileage may vary.

The Toshiba satellites reportedly work very well with RME hardware, but check the cardbus controller spec
before purchasing. Things change and often without notice.

Tim