Hi,

I know, I cannot ask what is the best brand for subwoofers and
amplifiers. Can I take a risk and ask what brant to stay away from
and why ?

I heard that I should stay away from Sony and Power Acoustik because
of the over-rating in the specs. Any other brand I should stay away
from ?

Thanks,

Andre B.

IMHO consumers need to pay closer attention to thiele small parameters
and RMS wattage specs, rather than what logo is screened on the dustcap.

Dont quote me on this, but I have read that there are only 5-6 BULK
speaker manufacturers in the world, and many times the name you see on
the magnet sticker is not the actual manufacturer of the subwoofer. The
designs however are unique.

IN other www communities folks rave about adire audio Shiva, elemental
designs E12K, and Dayton Loudspeaker DSQ.

I just bought a pair of BOSS RIP-12Cs. They have a 3 inch voice coil
that should be durable enough to handle the 250-300 RMS watts I plan on
feeding them. I modeled their TS params on winISD and their response
plot was on par with many of the other high end subs I was looking at.
I got them CHEAP on e-bay, so my expectations are very low... We shall
see.

Garrett


Anb wrote:

Hi,

I know, I cannot ask what is the best brand for subwoofers and
amplifiers. Can I take a risk and ask what brant to stay away from
and why ?

I heard that I should stay away from Sony and Power Acoustik because
of the over-rating in the specs. Any other brand I should stay away
from ?

Thanks,

Andre B.

Anb wrote:

I know, I cannot ask what is the best brand for subwoofers and
amplifiers.

If you do we will refer you to this web site
http://www.teamrocs.com/crap/newbie.htm

Can I take a risk and ask what brant to stay away from
and why ?

they are all good ;-)

I heard that I should stay away from Sony and Power Acoustik because
of the over-rating in the specs.

EVERY CAR AUDIO BRAND OVERRATES THE SPECS
(or should I say they downright LIE! )

Alot of folks Love Sony!!
And Power Acoustiks cant be bad, they use great lookin girls in thier
adds!
(gotta give credit where credit is due)
(Alma calls me a dirty old man... ha ha ... so???)

Any other brand I should stay away
from ?

They are all good


Eddie Runner
World Famous Installers Mailing List
http://installer.com/tech/iml.html

Sanitarium wrote:

IMHO consumers need to pay closer attention to thiele small parameters
and RMS wattage specs, rather than what logo is screened on the dustcap.

Your right, but who says the thiele small parameters and RMS wattage specs
are not just made up??? Why not just face the facts that
THEY ARE ALL GOOD! ;-)

Dont quote me on this, but I have read that there are only 5-6 BULK
speaker manufacturers in the world, and many times the name you see on
the magnet sticker is not the actual manufacturer of the subwoofer.

not just MANY times but MOST of the time..... For Car audio, PIONEER
is one of the few that makes thier own speakers (and makes em for other
folks as well)...

All the BIG RESPECTED BRANDS like JL, ID, and mst everyone else
are all made by someone else....

The designs however are unique.

BULL****!
When they know that you know that they dont make em, they always try to
tell you the designs are UNIQUE!! ha ha ha
Thats rarely the case!
Most of the time they just pick the speakers out of a catalog and have thier

name put on the dustcap!! (Unique dustcap maybe! ha ha ha)

They can however choose from say one of 5 different surrounds, and then
choose from say 2 different cone materials, and maybe choose the magnet
size, and then have them constructed.... or buy those parts and construct

them inhouse.... But even that doesnt make them truely unique!!

For them to be UNIQUE they would have to RETOOL to make UNIQUE
parts, and thats EXPENSIVE! The whole reason these guys dont build the
speakers themselves is because the tooling is too damn expensive!! So they
use the parts that the big speakerhouses have already tooled up for....

SAME THING of course with most car stereo amplifiers as well!
They just pick em out of a Tiawan catalog and have unique shaped
or painted heatsinks with thier logo on em!!

(like I always say, they are all about the same anyway... ha ha)


IN other www communities folks rave about adire audio Shiva, elemental
designs E12K, and Dayton Loudspeaker DSQ.

they are all the same ol crap!
Different day different name on the dustcap! ha ha

I just bought a pair of BOSS RIP-12Cs. They have a 3 inch voice coil
that should be durable enough to handle the 250-300 RMS watts I plan on
feeding them.

Nothin wrong with a big ol 3 inch voice coil!

I modeled their TS params on winISD and their response
plot was on par with many of the other high end subs I was looking at.

there ya go! But you should test for the parameters yourself instead
of taking the manufacturers word for it...


Eddie Runner
http://www.installer.com/tech/

Yeah the dustcaps are unique, Yeah thats it, thats what I meant!! ;~)

You make some good points. When I was competing in IASCA events in the
late 80s-early 90s I was fiercely brand loyal, Hifonics amps, stillwater
subs/midbass/mids and JBL T06 tweeters. Today its kind of disheartening
that everything is an illusion/scam/hoax. Theres no real reason to be
brand loyal any more...

I just bought some legacy 6.5" midbass speakers, and my buddy ragged on
them for being utter crap... Is he right? At $9 a pop I couldnt resist,
If I dont like them... out they go and in go the morels/focals or kicker
resolution??? at $9 each, Can the legacy dust cap really be all that
much worse than the other high end dust caps?

Garrett

Eddie Runner wrote:

Sanitarium wrote:

IMHO consumers need to pay closer attention to thiele small parameters
and RMS wattage specs, rather than what logo is screened on the dustcap.

Your right, but who says the thiele small parameters and RMS wattage specs
are not just made up??? Why not just face the facts that
THEY ARE ALL GOOD! ;-)

Dont quote me on this, but I have read that there are only 5-6 BULK
speaker manufacturers in the world, and many times the name you see on
the magnet sticker is not the actual manufacturer of the subwoofer.

not just MANY times but MOST of the time..... For Car audio, PIONEER
is one of the few that makes thier own speakers (and makes em for other
folks as well)...

All the BIG RESPECTED BRANDS like JL, ID, and mst everyone else
are all made by someone else....

The designs however are unique.

BULL****!
When they know that you know that they dont make em, they always try to
tell you the designs are UNIQUE!! ha ha ha
Thats rarely the case!
Most of the time they just pick the speakers out of a catalog and have thier

name put on the dustcap!! (Unique dustcap maybe! ha ha ha)

They can however choose from say one of 5 different surrounds, and then
choose from say 2 different cone materials, and maybe choose the magnet
size, and then have them constructed.... or buy those parts and construct

them inhouse.... But even that doesnt make them truely unique!!

For them to be UNIQUE they would have to RETOOL to make UNIQUE
parts, and thats EXPENSIVE! The whole reason these guys dont build the
speakers themselves is because the tooling is too damn expensive!! So they
use the parts that the big speakerhouses have already tooled up for....

SAME THING of course with most car stereo amplifiers as well!
They just pick em out of a Tiawan catalog and have unique shaped
or painted heatsinks with thier logo on em!!

(like I always say, they are all about the same anyway... ha ha)

IN other www communities folks rave about adire audio Shiva, elemental
designs E12K, and Dayton Loudspeaker DSQ.

they are all the same ol crap!
Different day different name on the dustcap! ha ha

I just bought a pair of BOSS RIP-12Cs. They have a 3 inch voice coil
that should be durable enough to handle the 250-300 RMS watts I plan on
feeding them.

Nothin wrong with a big ol 3 inch voice coil!

I modeled their TS params on winISD and their response
plot was on par with many of the other high end subs I was looking at.

there ya go! But you should test for the parameters yourself instead
of taking the manufacturers word for it...

Eddie Runner
http://www.installer.com/tech/

Yeah the dustcaps are unique, Yeah thats it, thats what I meant!! ;~)

You make some good points. When I was competing in IASCA events in the
late 80s-early 90s I was fiercely brand loyal, Hifonics amps, stillwater
subs/midbass/mids and JBL T06 tweeters. Today its kind of disheartening
that everything is an illusion/scam/hoax. Theres no real reason to be
brand loyal any more...

I just bought some legacy 6.5" midbass speakers, and my buddy ragged on
them for being utter crap... Is he right? At $9 a pop I couldnt resist,
If I dont like them... out they go and in go the morels/focals or kicker
resolution??? at $9 each, Can the legacy dust cap really be all that
much worse than the other high end dust caps?

Garrett

Eddie Runner wrote:

Sanitarium wrote:

IMHO consumers need to pay closer attention to thiele small parameters
and RMS wattage specs, rather than what logo is screened on the dustcap.

Your right, but who says the thiele small parameters and RMS wattage specs
are not just made up??? Why not just face the facts that
THEY ARE ALL GOOD! ;-)

Dont quote me on this, but I have read that there are only 5-6 BULK
speaker manufacturers in the world, and many times the name you see on
the magnet sticker is not the actual manufacturer of the subwoofer.

not just MANY times but MOST of the time..... For Car audio, PIONEER
is one of the few that makes thier own speakers (and makes em for other
folks as well)...

All the BIG RESPECTED BRANDS like JL, ID, and mst everyone else
are all made by someone else....

The designs however are unique.

BULL****!
When they know that you know that they dont make em, they always try to
tell you the designs are UNIQUE!! ha ha ha
Thats rarely the case!
Most of the time they just pick the speakers out of a catalog and have thier

name put on the dustcap!! (Unique dustcap maybe! ha ha ha)

They can however choose from say one of 5 different surrounds, and then
choose from say 2 different cone materials, and maybe choose the magnet
size, and then have them constructed.... or buy those parts and construct

them inhouse.... But even that doesnt make them truely unique!!

For them to be UNIQUE they would have to RETOOL to make UNIQUE
parts, and thats EXPENSIVE! The whole reason these guys dont build the
speakers themselves is because the tooling is too damn expensive!! So they
use the parts that the big speakerhouses have already tooled up for....

SAME THING of course with most car stereo amplifiers as well!
They just pick em out of a Tiawan catalog and have unique shaped
or painted heatsinks with thier logo on em!!

(like I always say, they are all about the same anyway... ha ha)

IN other www communities folks rave about adire audio Shiva, elemental
designs E12K, and Dayton Loudspeaker DSQ.

they are all the same ol crap!
Different day different name on the dustcap! ha ha

I just bought a pair of BOSS RIP-12Cs. They have a 3 inch voice coil
that should be durable enough to handle the 250-300 RMS watts I plan on
feeding them.

Nothin wrong with a big ol 3 inch voice coil!

I modeled their TS params on winISD and their response
plot was on par with many of the other high end subs I was looking at.

there ya go! But you should test for the parameters yourself instead
of taking the manufacturers word for it...

Eddie Runner
http://www.installer.com/tech/

Sanitarium wrote:

Yeah the dustcaps are unique, Yeah thats it, thats what I meant!! ;~)

and its OH SO TRUE!!

You make some good points. When I was competing in IASCA events in the
late 80s-early 90s I was fiercely brand loyal, Hifonics amps, stillwater
subs/midbass/mids and JBL T06 tweeters. Today its kind of disheartening
that everything is an illusion/scam/hoax. Theres no real reason to be
brand loyal any more...

There wasnt a reason to be back then either.... ;-)
I guess you just didnt know any better....

I just bought some legacy 6.5" midbass speakers, and my buddy ragged on
them for being utter crap... Is he right?

they are probably good....
you have to remember, if compnies buy their speakers from a big ol
speaker catalog, some companies aiming at the low end may buy the
cheap low end speakers and some companies aiming at the high
end may avoid the cheapies ....

Legacy and Pyramid though do have an amazingly large speaker line, some
of them are darned good speakers!!

At $9 a pop I couldnt resist,

Not bad... I bought two cases of 15s once for about $12 each once just so
I could use them to experement with... I bought em from an OEM company.
They werent all that great but they were perfect for my throw down use.. .. ha ha

The TeamROCS guys were once considering buying speakers with the TeamROCS
Logo on the dust cap a few years ago, but I dont think we could find enough
folks for the minumum order at the time....


If I dont like them... out they go and in go the morels/focals or kicker
resolution??? at $9 each, Can the legacy dust cap really be all that
much worse than the other high end dust caps?

cant beat em for $9!
Try em out see if they are worth a damn...


Eddie Runner
http://www.tx4x4.com

IMHO consumers need to pay closer attention to thiele small parameters
and RMS wattage specs, rather than what logo is screened on the dustcap.

Ditto what Eddie said.


Dont quote me on this, but I have read that there are only 5-6 BULK
speaker manufacturers in the world, and many times the name you see on
the magnet sticker is not the actual manufacturer of the subwoofer. The
designs however are unique.

I suspect there are more than that, but I guess it depends on what you mean
by "bulk". Ditto again on what Eddie said about the designs, but there are
indeed differences between two products. Where they're made and who
designed it is of little consequences. You won't open two amps by two
manufacturers, even if owned by the same company, and expect to see the same
thing.


IN other www communities folks rave about adire audio Shiva, elemental
designs E12K, and Dayton Loudspeaker DSQ.

I just bought a pair of BOSS RIP-12Cs. They have a 3 inch voice coil
that should be durable enough to handle the 250-300 RMS watts I plan on
feeding them. I modeled their TS params on winISD and their response
plot was on par with many of the other high end subs I was looking at.

Next step is MEASURING the TS parameters and then plug that in to your
program.