Hi all,

Recently I bought a MOTU 828Mk II firewire interface for use in live
sound effects applications and it performed terrific there (aside from a
few bugs in AudioDesk, the included software). Now I'm done with the
show I had designed with it, and am looking to get into some of its
recording abilities.

I am personally a classical pianist (though very very amateur.. not even
taking lessons anymore) and would like to play around a bit with
recording myself, as I think it would give myself more reason to
practice and learn new repertoire, and of course is just a fun thing to
occupy myself with. I don't plan on selling my CDs (perhaps giving CDs
as gifts to friends and family) but I don't want them to sound like crap
either. I have an appreciation for good sound but don't need $1000
Neumann large-diaphragm condensers either

Additionally, I have other friends who are musicians (acoustic guitar,
flute, vocal, etc) and if possible would like to have mics that (while
sounding good on piano) are also versatile enough to capture these other
things decently. Of course, being on a college campus, I might be able
to get a few $50 recording gigs off fellow students as well.

If I want to spend around $200-$300 max on microphones, would you
suggest getting a single rather nice mic or two medium-range? I'd be
using them with the internal preamp on the MOTU 828 (sounds clean but
not particularly warm or harsh, at least on the one mic I've used it
with so far). My piano is an Yamaha U2 upright, though with the lid open
I feel like it has a bigger sound than most baby grands I've played. I
play 90% classical music, especially from the romantic period.

Been looking at Shure SM57, Beta57, and SM81. I'm not bent on Shure -- I
just happen to know their models better than other companies'.

Also, is it generally a bad idea to buy used mics off eBay? Any other
ideas for getting good deals?

Thanks
-Todd

I'm in your position except trying to record jazz piano. I've been
struggling for about 3 years to find a medium budget solution and have had
no luck so far.

What preamp are you using/thinking of using?
I've tried renting several semi-expensive mics (ex. AKG 414) and found the
quality to be not like anyone here describes them (i.e they sounded like
total mud), so I'm banking on the fact that either my pre-amp (mackie
VLZ's), the room acoustics, or some combination of both are the limiting
factor. I think the consensus is that the best bet would be some sort of
condenser mic. Take a look into the marshall 603s, they're in your price
range... I haven't had any luck with them yet, but I've heard from people
who have so I'm hoping they'll perform a bit better after I upgrade my
preamp (looking at the FMR RNP) and improve my room acoustics.

I've been told repeatedly that piano's are one of the hardest instruments to
record and I can attest to that in my limited experience.




"Todd Lipcon" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Recently I bought a MOTU 828Mk II firewire interface for use in live
sound effects applications and it performed terrific there (aside from a
few bugs in AudioDesk, the included software). Now I'm done with the
show I had designed with it, and am looking to get into some of its
recording abilities.

I am personally a classical pianist (though very very amateur.. not even
taking lessons anymore) and would like to play around a bit with
recording myself, as I think it would give myself more reason to
practice and learn new repertoire, and of course is just a fun thing to
occupy myself with. I don't plan on selling my CDs (perhaps giving CDs
as gifts to friends and family) but I don't want them to sound like crap
either. I have an appreciation for good sound but don't need $1000
Neumann large-diaphragm condensers either

Additionally, I have other friends who are musicians (acoustic guitar,
flute, vocal, etc) and if possible would like to have mics that (while
sounding good on piano) are also versatile enough to capture these other
things decently. Of course, being on a college campus, I might be able
to get a few $50 recording gigs off fellow students as well.

If I want to spend around $200-$300 max on microphones, would you
suggest getting a single rather nice mic or two medium-range? I'd be
using them with the internal preamp on the MOTU 828 (sounds clean but
not particularly warm or harsh, at least on the one mic I've used it
with so far). My piano is an Yamaha U2 upright, though with the lid open
I feel like it has a bigger sound than most baby grands I've played. I
play 90% classical music, especially from the romantic period.

Been looking at Shure SM57, Beta57, and SM81. I'm not bent on Shure -- I
just happen to know their models better than other companies'.

Also, is it generally a bad idea to buy used mics off eBay? Any other
ideas for getting good deals?

Thanks
-Todd

"Todd Lipcon" wrote in message


Additionally, I have other friends who are musicians (acoustic guitar,
flute, vocal, etc) and if possible would like to have mics that (while
sounding good on piano) are also versatile enough to capture these
other things decently. Of course, being on a college campus, I might
be able to get a few $50 recording gigs off fellow students as well.

If I want to spend around $200-$300 max on microphones, would you
suggest getting a single rather nice mic or two medium-range?

It seems to me that you're actually asking about a mic for small ensemble
recording.

You've listed the following sources:

acoustic guitar,
flute,
vocal,
piano, and the ever-popular "etc.".

That's a minimum of 4 different sources, and therefore up to 4 different
questions.

Even using bottom-feeder specials, $200-300 seems like it could be
challenging for 4 or more really pretty good mics. Even 4 SM57s will set you
back $320 at a discount. And, I'd never recommend 4 SM57s for a small
ensemble.

I'd be
using them with the internal preamp on the MOTU 828 (sounds clean but
not particularly warm or harsh, at least on the one mic I've used it
with so far).

That gets you 2 mic preamps. You could profitably use at least 6 mics and
therefore mic preamps, for 4 musicians.

My piano is an Yamaha U2 upright, though with the lid
open I feel like it has a bigger sound than most baby grands I've
played. I play 90% classical music, especially from the romantic
period.


Been looking at Shure SM57, Beta57, and SM81. I'm not bent on Shure
-- I just happen to know their models better than other companies'.

If you're going to use just 2 mics with a small ensemble, there's really
only one approach that can work - and that's 2 more-or-less coincident
microphones. No way would I recommend any of these mics but the SM81 for
coincident use, and just one SM81 would blow your budget sky high.

Here are some articles that might help get you thinking with higher
resolution about what you are trying to do:

http://www.recaudiopro.net/faq/index.htm

http://www.tape.com/Bartlett_Article...echniques.html

http://www.josephson.com/mic-faq1.html

http://www.recordinglair.com/record/...n/micplace.htm


Also, is it generally a bad idea to buy used mics off eBay?

Depends on who is selling them and what they are selling you.

For example right now I'm trolling eBay for copies of an out-of-production
mic. My box score has been 2 good ones, and one that was good after I
repaired it (bad solder joint that it probably had since day 1). I've bought
7 mics from eBay, and 3 required some kind of maintenance before they were
acceptable to me.

Any other ideas for getting good deals?

The best deal involves getting the right tool for the job.

Remember, you're not buying squash, soda, or oil filters; you're buying
complex, highly-specialized tools.

Look at a pair of either Shure KSM109's or Audio Technica 3031's found them
online at 360/340 for a pair...

Rgds:
Eric

"Todd Lipcon" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Recently I bought a MOTU 828Mk II firewire interface for use in live
sound effects applications and it performed terrific there (aside
from a
few bugs in AudioDesk, the included software). Now I'm done with the
show I had designed with it, and am looking to get into some of its
recording abilities.

I am personally a classical pianist (though very very amateur.. not
even
taking lessons anymore) and would like to play around a bit with
recording myself, as I think it would give myself more reason to
practice and learn new repertoire, and of course is just a fun thing
to
occupy myself with. I don't plan on selling my CDs (perhaps giving
CDs
as gifts to friends and family) but I don't want them to sound like
crap
either. I have an appreciation for good sound but don't need $1000
Neumann large-diaphragm condensers either

Additionally, I have other friends who are musicians (acoustic
guitar,
flute, vocal, etc) and if possible would like to have mics that
(while
sounding good on piano) are also versatile enough to capture these
other
things decently. Of course, being on a college campus, I might be
able
to get a few $50 recording gigs off fellow students as well.

If I want to spend around $200-$300 max on microphones, would you
suggest getting a single rather nice mic or two medium-range? I'd be
using them with the internal preamp on the MOTU 828 (sounds clean
but
not particularly warm or harsh, at least on the one mic I've used it
with so far). My piano is an Yamaha U2 upright, though with the lid
open
I feel like it has a bigger sound than most baby grands I've played.
I
play 90% classical music, especially from the romantic period.

Been looking at Shure SM57, Beta57, and SM81. I'm not bent on
Shure -- I
just happen to know their models better than other companies'.

Also, is it generally a bad idea to buy used mics off eBay? Any
other
ideas for getting good deals?

Thanks
-Todd

"Todd Lipcon" wrote in message
...

Hi all, If I want to spend around $200-$300 max on microphones,
would you
suggest getting a single rather nice mic or two medium-range? I'd be
using them with the internal preamp on the MOTU 828 (sounds clean
but
not particularly warm or harsh, at least on the one mic I've used it
with so far). My piano is an Yamaha U2 upright, though with the lid
open
I feel like it has a bigger sound than most baby grands I've played.
I
play 90% classical music, especially from the romantic period.

I suspect that the Audio-Technica AT-822 is what you should be looking
at. It's a stereo mike and is within your budget. I've heard many
excellent piano recordings using that mike.

Norm Strong

Todd Lipcon wrote:


If I want to spend around $200-$300 max on microphones, would you
suggest getting a single rather nice mic or two medium-range?


One good mic, definitely. You might be able to find a used Beyer M160
for that.


I'd be using them with the internal preamp on the MOTU 828 (sounds
clean but not particularly warm or harsh, at least on the one mic I've
used it with so far).


Ugh, probably not good for use with the Beyer.




Been looking at Shure SM57, Beta57, and SM81. I'm not bent on Shure
-- I just happen to know their models better than other companies'.


Stretch your budget a little and you might be able to swing a Josephson
C42, which you won't likely outgrow for many years (if ever.)
http://www.mercenary.com/mercenary-a...ephsonc42.html



Also, is it generally a bad idea to buy used mics off eBay?


I buy them that way frequently.

Todd Lipcon
I am personally a classical pianist (though very very amateur.. not even

taking lessons anymore) and would like to play around a bit with
recording myself, as I think it would give myself more reason to
practice and learn new repertoire, and of course is just a fun thing to

occupy myself with. I don't plan on selling my CDs (perhaps giving CDs
as gifts to friends and family) but I don't want them to sound like crap

either. I have an appreciation for good sound but don't need $1000
Neumann large-diaphragm condensers either

At your $300 price point I might suggest a pair of Oktava MC012's cardiods
which sell for as little as $75 to $100 on sale at Guitar Center, and a pair
of Behringer ECM800 omni microphones at about $40 each. The Behringer's are a
bit noisy but they're cheap, and using omni's and cardiods together is a lot
of fun and creates an interesting stereo image that has the benefits of both
methods of micing a piano.

With the MC012 as an "X/Y pair" of cardiods and the spaced pair of
ECM800's, try to keep the mics on the same plane about 5 feet out from a Grand
piano. DPA suggests a 50 CM distance between spaced omnis but I haven't ever
seen anyone place them that close together, more like 4 feet apart or more, but
use your ears for where the sound is.

Have fun...





Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

Thanks to everyone who has responded. I've been duly taking notes and
will keep everything in consideration. If anyone has any used mics for
sale, send me an email

One thing I have to restate is that I only have the two built in mic
pres in the MOTU 828. Adding on the extra money for any decent Mic Pre
would be too much for me to spend, at least as it stands now.

Thanks again
-Todd


In article ,
ospam (WillStG) wrote:



At your $300 price point I might suggest a pair of Oktava MC012's
cardiods
which sell for as little as $75 to $100 on sale at Guitar Center, and a
pair
of Behringer ECM800 omni microphones at about $40 each. The Behringer's are
a
bit noisy but they're cheap, and using omni's and cardiods together is a lot
of fun and creates an interesting stereo image that has the benefits of both
methods of micing a piano.

With the MC012 as an "X/Y pair" of cardiods and the spaced pair of
ECM800's, try to keep the mics on the same plane about 5 feet out from a
Grand
piano. DPA suggests a 50 CM distance between spaced omnis but I haven't ever
seen anyone place them that close together, more like 4 feet apart or more,
but
use your ears for where the sound is.

Have fun...





Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

I have to agree, the Oktava MC012s are great inexpensive mics. FIY,
in the Sept 2003 issue of Recording magazine, there's a DIY project
for upgrading the MC012. I still haven't gotten around to doing the
mod, but it seems like an intresting venture.

Mike T

Todd Lipcon wrote in message .. .
Thanks to everyone who has responded. I've been duly taking notes and
will keep everything in consideration. If anyone has any used mics for
sale, send me an email

One thing I have to restate is that I only have the two built in mic
pres in the MOTU 828. Adding on the extra money for any decent Mic Pre
would be too much for me to spend, at least as it stands now.

Thanks again
-Todd


In article ,
ospam (WillStG) wrote:



At your $300 price point I might suggest a pair of Oktava MC012's
cardiods
which sell for as little as $75 to $100 on sale at Guitar Center, and a
pair
of Behringer ECM800 omni microphones at about $40 each. The Behringer's are
a
bit noisy but they're cheap, and using omni's and cardiods together is a lot
of fun and creates an interesting stereo image that has the benefits of both
methods of micing a piano.

With the MC012 as an "X/Y pair" of cardiods and the spaced pair of
ECM800's, try to keep the mics on the same plane about 5 feet out from a
Grand
piano. DPA suggests a 50 CM distance between spaced omnis but I haven't ever
seen anyone place them that close together, more like 4 feet apart or more,
but
use your ears for where the sound is.

Have fun...





Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits