Is there any legal way to broadcast music and such that isn't expensive? I'm
talking low, low power. Couple miles or so.

On 09 Dec 2003 05:08:19 GMT, (Doc Gorpon) wrote:

Is there any legal way to broadcast music and such that isn't expensive? I'm
talking low, low power. Couple miles or so.

Consult your local laws of course, but many places have a limit, e.g.
1 mile, 1/2 mile, etc. below which you don't need a license. Although
I always wondered what the use of such stations was, maybe if you live
somewhere densly populated it would be worthwhile?

On 09 Dec 2003 05:08:19 GMT, (Doc Gorpon) wrote:

Is there any legal way to broadcast music and such that isn't expensive? I'm
talking low, low power. Couple miles or so.

I think the short answer is no. And of course the big expense in
short range broadcasting is nothing to do with the kit, but the
rights.

Anyway, these days music is so cheap that most people already own all
the music they want to listen to. Why not print some lists of your
favourite tunes and pin them on trees in your neighbourhood. That
should achieve the same effect very cheaply and without you being a
nuisance to everybody else on the air.

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

Doc Gorpon wrote:
Is there any legal way to broadcast music and such that isn't expensive? I'm
talking low, low power. Couple miles or so.

From the FCC website:

"Unlicensed Operation Prohibited. A very common question asked to the
FCC is whether broadcasting at very low power requires a license. Please
be aware that unlicensed operation of radio broadcast stations is
prohibited, even at such low powers such as 1 watt or less. The only
unlicensed operation that is permitted on the AM and FM broadcast bands
is covered under Part 15 of the FCC's rules, and is limited to a
coverage radius of approximately 200 feet. (See the Commission's July
24, 1991 Public Notice.) Unlicensed operation is also not permitted in
the television bands (including 87.9 MHz, which falls within the 82.0 to
88.0 Channel 6 television band). Fines and/or criminal prosecution may
result from illegal operation of an unlicensed station."

Here's the description of the new Low-Power FM guidelines. Note that a
license is still required, that usage is restricted to educational
broadcasting, and that the FCC is not accepting applications at the
present time:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/lpfm/index.html

This page may also be useful:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/getstat.html

GaryM wrote:

On 09 Dec 2003 05:08:19 GMT, (Doc Gorpon) wrote:

Is there any legal way to broadcast music and such that isn't expensive? I'm
talking low, low power. Couple miles or so.

Consult your local laws of course, but many places have a limit, e.g.
1 mile, 1/2 mile, etc. below which you don't need a license.

By "local laws", I assume that you mean local to different countries
around the world? There are certainly no "local laws" within the US
governing any use of the broadcast spectrum. The Federal Communications
Act of 1934 placed all control of broadcast spectrum into the hands of
the FCC. "Local laws" do not apply.

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 13:00:39 GMT, Jim Gilliland
wrote:

GaryM wrote:

On 09 Dec 2003 05:08:19 GMT, (Doc Gorpon) wrote:

Is there any legal way to broadcast music and such that isn't expensive? I'm
talking low, low power. Couple miles or so.

Consult your local laws of course, but many places have a limit, e.g.
1 mile, 1/2 mile, etc. below which you don't need a license.

By "local laws", I assume that you mean local to different countries
around the world? There are certainly no "local laws" within the US
governing any use of the broadcast spectrum. The Federal Communications
Act of 1934 placed all control of broadcast spectrum into the hands of
the FCC. "Local laws" do not apply.

Yes, I meant "local laws" as in local to the US or local to Scotland
or local to Uzbekistan.

"Doc Gorpon" wrote in message
...
Is there any legal way to broadcast music and such that isn't expensive?
I'm
talking low, low power. Couple miles or so.

no

not legally on am or fm bands
a few hundred yards , maybe
George


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"Doc Gorpon" wrote in message
...
Is there any legal way to broadcast music and such that isn't expensive?
I'm
talking low, low power. Couple miles or so.

consult
alt.radio.pirate

I went through this about 2 years ago and have decided the risk is not worth
the benifit
I even built a low power FM freq. agile transmitter from Ramsey electronics
used it once
the key is interference not power
and antenna radiation strength

the fine is something like 25,000$ per occourance day and confiscation of
all"related, in the eyes of the FCC" gear
that could have meant confiscation of my 250,000$ worth of pa gear

now do people do it YES but until the government is willing to allow some
freedom in our lives the risk is not worth it

can you imagine the fun us anacrists could have with free access to
bandwidth
LOL
George


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In article writes:

Is there any legal way to broadcast music and such that isn't expensive? I'm
talking low, low power. Couple miles or so.

If you're planning to use the commercial broadcast band, then no. The
reality is that the FCC is too busy selling cell phone licenses and
really only acts on complaints. If you live way out in the country,
you're not likely to get caught. If you broadcast offensive music or
talk and one of your neighbors stumbles on your broadcast, gets ****ed
that this "trash" is going out over the air, and gets the FCC's
interference wheels in motion, in a few months they might find you.

True pirate radio stations (and I'm not sure there still are any)
generally locate their facilities in a country that has no broadcast
regulations. The days of Les Paul's neighborhood after hours live jazz
broadcasts are long gone.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Doc Gorpon wrote:
Is there any legal way to broadcast music and such that isn't expensive? I'm
talking low, low power. Couple miles or so.

What do you want to broadcast it to? How good does it have to sound?

You can broadcast under Part 15 with the little transmitter devices from
Ramsey Electronics and Panaxis, but you won't go a couple miles unless you
are in the middle of Kansas. It's good enough to go across the house in
many cases, though.

If you need to go some distance, there are ukubillion VHF-LO business band
channels open right now, and the FCC is giving them away for a couple hundred
bucks each. Narrowband but you can get surprisingly decent sound with some
tinkering.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

True pirate radio stations (and I'm not sure there still are any)
generally locate their facilities in a country that has no broadcast
regulations. The days of Les Paul's neighborhood after hours live jazz
broadcasts are long gone.

The old classic - get a boat and sail into international waters. Need
a powerful transmitter though. And a boat.

In article ,
Jim Gilliland wrote:
Doc Gorpon wrote:
Is there any legal way to broadcast music and such that isn't expensive? I'm
talking low, low power. Couple miles or so.

From the FCC website:

"Unlicensed Operation Prohibited. A very common question asked to the
FCC is whether broadcasting at very low power requires a license. Please
be aware that unlicensed operation of radio broadcast stations is
prohibited, even at such low powers such as 1 watt or less. The only
unlicensed operation that is permitted on the AM and FM broadcast bands
is covered under Part 15 of the FCC's rules, and is limited to a
coverage radius of approximately 200 feet. (See the Commission's July
24, 1991 Public Notice.) Unlicensed operation is also not permitted in
the television bands (including 87.9 MHz, which falls within the 82.0 to
88.0 Channel 6 television band). Fines and/or criminal prosecution may
result from illegal operation of an unlicensed station."

The actual letter of the law is interesting, in that the FM stuff is
basically allowed to radiate a certain field strength at a certain distance,
rather then a certain input power.

If you get your antenna high up enough, and you are in a very quiet location,
you can go way more than 200 feet and still remain legal. In an urban area
where the noise floor is very high, you will be lucky to go ten feet. The
noise floor is really the limiting factor as long as you have a clear line
of sight to the transmitter.

We tried running a licensed ten-watt transmitter in Intermod Alley in
Atlanta back in the eighties. That probably had a field strength maybe
40 dB higher than what part 15 allows. We were very hard pressed to go
a thousand feet because of the high noise floor. A couple people got theses
out of it.

Here's the description of the new Low-Power FM guidelines. Note that a
license is still required, that usage is restricted to educational
broadcasting, and that the FCC is not accepting applications at the
present time:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/lpfm/index.html

This page may also be useful:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/getstat.html

It is very difficult to get an LPFM license right now, in great part because
of two groups, one of which is applying for translator licenses right and
left to block LPFM applications, and another of which is applying for LPFM
licenses wherever possible for a Christian broadcasting network. There are
some of them getting issued but the bands are already overcrowded in most
places and it is very hard to shoehorn anything into the existing contours.

I rather like the idea of the LPFM license, but the real problem isn't a
lack of small stations with community service in mind, but it's a surplus
of large stations that don't care about community service. And the new
LPFM allocation doesn't do anything about this.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article
writes:

Is there any legal way to broadcast music and such that isn't
expensive? I'm
talking low, low power. Couple miles or so.

Dunno about a couple of miles but the little fm transmiter kit I got from
Ramsey Electronics does a great job of brodcasting Music Choice channels
from the cable all over the house and out into the yard. The kit was pretty
easy to put together--a couple of evenings--by a guy that hasn't fiddled
intimately with electronics assembly for many decades (that would be me) and
it worked the first time it was plugged it in. Sounds surprisingly good,
too.

Ramsey also has 200 watt transmitters as well if you want more muscle.


--
Chris White, Freelance Advertising Writer & Voice Overs*
Email: Web: www.chriswhite.com
Phone: 757-621-1348
*Your opinion may vary

Very interesting guys. Thanks for the input. I especially liked the
suggestion of tacking bootleg cds to trees around the neighborhood.
I'm not intensely interested in this, and I have plenty of other things going
on. It was just kind of a "why the hell not" kind of thought I had that seemed
like it might be fun. I might look into a license. Are they expensive and
difficult to get? One person mentioned that they are being blocked now
somehow.. but then another mentioned something about VHF channels being cheap
and easy to access?
Anyway, I do have friends that were running a station that wasn't offensive
or anything, and they were constantly getting busted and had a mobile setup. I
definitely don't want to solicite any kind of fines or trouble or risk getting
my studio confiscated. So I might just chuck the idea if there are no legal
ways to get a reasonable signal out.

"GaryM" wrote in message
news
True pirate radio stations (and I'm not sure there still are any)
generally locate their facilities in a country that has no broadcast
regulations. The days of Les Paul's neighborhood after hours live jazz
broadcasts are long gone.

The old classic - get a boat and sail into international waters. Need
a powerful transmitter though. And a boat.


Some time ago, maybe a decade, The FCC sailed right into international
waters and arrested a bunch of people who did that, and got themselves a
nice boat to auction off. Who was going to protest? The UN?

jb

In article writes:

I might look into a license. Are they expensive and
difficult to get?

Yes, and yes.

.. but then another mentioned something about VHF channels being cheap
and easy to access?

Easier than a license in the commercial broadcast band, but nobody
with a conventional radio would be able to pick up your broadcast.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Scott Dorsey wrote:

In article ,
Jim Gilliland wrote:

Doc Gorpon wrote:

Is there any legal way to broadcast music and such that isn't expensive? I'm
talking low, low power. Couple miles or so.

From the FCC website:

"Unlicensed Operation Prohibited. A very common question asked to the
FCC is whether broadcasting at very low power requires a license. Please
be aware that unlicensed operation of radio broadcast stations is
prohibited, even at such low powers such as 1 watt or less. The only
unlicensed operation that is permitted on the AM and FM broadcast bands
is covered under Part 15 of the FCC's rules, and is limited to a
coverage radius of approximately 200 feet. (See the Commission's July
24, 1991 Public Notice.) Unlicensed operation is also not permitted in
the television bands (including 87.9 MHz, which falls within the 82.0 to
88.0 Channel 6 television band). Fines and/or criminal prosecution may
result from illegal operation of an unlicensed station."


The actual letter of the law is interesting, in that the FM stuff is
basically allowed to radiate a certain field strength at a certain distance,
rather then a certain input power.

If you get your antenna high up enough, and you are in a very quiet location,
you can go way more than 200 feet and still remain legal. In an urban area
where the noise floor is very high, you will be lucky to go ten feet. The
noise floor is really the limiting factor as long as you have a clear line
of sight to the transmitter.

We tried running a licensed ten-watt transmitter in Intermod Alley in
Atlanta back in the eighties. That probably had a field strength maybe
40 dB higher than what part 15 allows. We were very hard pressed to go
are there any feasible technological loopholes? For instance multiple
very small units arrayed in a central urban location (perhaps fed
through the internet)I often wonder about the possibility of real media
access due to the inherent opposition of the "property right" at stake
and the right to free speech (where the questions are 1-how expensive is
the free speech 2-how loud (socially audible above the noise coming from
private interest controlled speech.) I keep wondering if the open-source
technological model could contribute more (probably there are many
things going on i haven't heard about, "freer" speech would be a good
one, or virtual m.u.d.s with matching (probably have to be privately
sourced, but open the interface code) interactive transport/exercise
vehicles (meaning flying bicycle or other apparatus plugs into open
authorship m.u.d. and people can meet there to interact. anyways, sorry
it's late
b


, a thousand feet because of the high noise floor. A couple people
got theses
out of it.


Here's the description of the new Low-Power FM guidelines. Note that a
license is still required, that usage is restricted to educational
broadcasting, and that the FCC is not accepting applications at the
present time:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/lpfm/index.html

This page may also be useful:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/getstat.html


It is very difficult to get an LPFM license right now, in great part because
of two groups, one of which is applying for translator licenses right and
left to block LPFM applications, and another of which is applying for LPFM
licenses wherever possible for a Christian broadcasting network. There are
some of them getting issued but the bands are already overcrowded in most
places and it is very hard to shoehorn anything into the existing contours.

I rather like the idea of the LPFM license, but the real problem isn't a
lack of small stations with community service in mind, but it's a surplus
of large stations that don't care about community service. And the new
LPFM allocation doesn't do anything about this.
--scott

In article m writes:

are there any feasible technological loopholes? For instance multiple
very small units arrayed in a central urban location (perhaps fed
through the internet)

That's not a loophole. When I was in college, our radio station didn't
have a real broadcast license, so we had multiple low power
transmitters that served the dorm buildings and a lunch counter and
drug store where students used to hang out. They were fed by phone
lines to the studio, and radiated through the power wiring in the
buildings. You could hear the broadcast a few feet outside the
building (within the legal limit) and we could add more transmitters
as money became available.

I often wonder about the possibility of real media
access due to the inherent opposition of the "property right" at stake
and the right to free speech

The right to free speech doesn't allow yout to violate others'
intellectual property rights. If you were to broadcast your political
or religious views, you might argue "right to free speech" because
you're speaking your own thoughts. But you have no right to freely
broadcast music that someone else has written and recorded. You can of
course hide it, encript it, and make it inconvenient for those who
would prevent you from doing it to find it. You'll get away with it
for a while.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo