Thanx for reply. How bout running it for a while. How long do you have to
run it. Could it possibly happen that the amp starts giving trouble after
say an hour or so. I also saw a deal on a 125w X 4 amp that "needs to be
repaired" its sold for dirt cheap. Any comments on this?

Hi Johan !

"JohanWagener" wrote in message
...
Thanx for reply. How bout running it for a while. How long do you have to
run it. Could it possibly happen that the amp starts giving trouble after
say an hour or so. I also saw a deal on a 125w X 4 amp that "needs to be
repaired" its sold for dirt cheap. Any comments on this?

\

That's what I do with used and new amps. ( and other things ) I have a
simple radio "test bench" ( nothing as fancy as the pro's, just an Alpine
CDA-7892 HU {usually, it's the main benchmark unit}, some bookshelf
speakers, a sub {12" MTX in a homemade sealed/vented box, or a Pioneer 10"
in a homemade sealed box }, some power, (variable 12.5V to 13.8V ), and I
simply "turn stuff on".

I have been listening to a MTX 4202 amp all day in my shop as I work. Sounds
great, and didn't get overly "warm". ( I do keep a cooling fan on the
Alpine )

I have found more than a few *things* that didn't work. After all, it's hard
to tell by just looking.

But testing your equipment is a good idea. If the seller will let you do
this prior to purchase, even better.

Just be careful with those power leads !

regards

bobwatts

--
Diesel Chevette World !
//////////*****\\\\\\\\\\
Bob Watts
Watts Carburetion Service
Cincinnati, Ohio
Since 1984
\\\\\\\\\\*****//////////

http://w3.one.net/~watscarb/dieselvette.htm

Bench testing is a good thing IMHO, assuming you have access to a
O-scope and really measure its performance. Especially for a "project"
amp in need of repair. Just remember to fuse all the power leads.

I personally lack the knowledge needed to do PCB / component level
trouble shooting so for me its a waste of $$$. I may as well spend the
extra cash for a fully functional / new amp. Generally car audio amps
use off the shelf PCB components, so they can be easy and cheap to
repair. The difficult part is troubleshooting them. Of course if the
PCB fab is fried thats another story.

Garrett



JohanWagener wrote:

Thanx for reply. How bout running it for a while. How long do you have to
run it. Could it possibly happen that the amp starts giving trouble after
say an hour or so. I also saw a deal on a 125w X 4 amp that "needs to be
repaired" its sold for dirt cheap. Any comments on this?

Can you give more detail on what to check? output voltage, input voltage,
VBE's ect?

Yup.

Also, I'd like to add. Don't be affraid to buy an amp that has been
repaired or refurbished. Things that were wrong with it originally have
been corrected. HOWEVER, this all depends on the competency of the person /
company who performed the repair. I wouldn't trust the work of some kid
with no knowledge in amp design and a radio shack soldering iron. You know,
the guy who only knows how to fix stuff if parts are physically blown off
the board? Amp design and trouble shooting is an art. This work is better
left to the artists.

I take great pride in my work and put every amp I work on through a rigorous
burn in and "in vehicle sound test" before I sell it or send it back to my
customer.

Some manufactures are great about repairing amps, others are worse than the
kid with the rat shack soldering iron. I strongly suggest working out a
limited time money back guarantee when buying used / repaired amplifiers.
If things are fine over the first few days of normal use then chances are
the amp is good to go.

For instance, I trust Soundstream amps I have repaired / modified more than
I trust their new product. Soundstream had a repectful design, it just
couldn't be manufactured by cheap labor with any degree of competency. I
had to clean up a number of BOTCH JOBS right out of the factory.
Soundstreams repair personnel seem even worse. I don't have an exact
figure, but I've cleaned up a number of BOTCH JOBS done when these amps were
refurbished and re-certified.

On the other hand, I trust the work of just about any other respectful amp
company out there. I'd buy refurbs from Phoenix Gold, Xtant, Fosgate, MTX,
and others of that nature (altough I've heard a lot of complaints about PPI
lately, this was well before DEI so they are not to blame).


Ge0
*******************************************
TeamAMP #4 - tech whiz type of guy
*******************************************
Low cost car stereo equipment repair/ modification
Contact me for advice or a quote.
Always interested in buying dead equipment too.
********************************************
Looking for answers on car stereo topics?
www.mobileaudio.com
www.teamrocs.com
http://go.to/bcae/
*******************************************
Geo uses:
Main Stage = a/d/s/ 336is.2
Rear fill = a/d/s/ 335is.2
Subs = Audiomobile Mass 2012 S24
Head unit = Denon DCT-1000R
Processor 1 = Orion DEQ30
Processor 2 = Tubedriver LDX-23 3-way x-over
Processor 3 = Ge0 brewed digital time delay
Sub Amp = a/d/s/ P4100.2
Main & rear fill amp = a/d/s/ P840.2
Interconnects = Streetwires ZN2.0, custom balanced and optical cabling
Power distribution = Streetwires
********************************************
Ge0 rides Ventanna and GT double boinger MTB's
Bikes built from deals at WWW.MTBREVIEW.COM
****
"Sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Bench testing is a good thing IMHO, assuming you have access to a
O-scope and really measure its performance. Especially for a "project"
amp in need of repair. Just remember to fuse all the power leads.

I personally lack the knowledge needed to do PCB / component level
trouble shooting so for me its a waste of $$$. I may as well spend the
extra cash for a fully functional / new amp. Generally car audio amps
use off the shelf PCB components, so they can be easy and cheap to
repair. The difficult part is troubleshooting them. Of course if the
PCB fab is fried thats another story.

Garrett



JohanWagener wrote:

Thanx for reply. How bout running it for a while. How long do you have
to
run it. Could it possibly happen that the amp starts giving trouble
after
say an hour or so. I also saw a deal on a 125w X 4 amp that "needs to be
repaired" its sold for dirt cheap. Any comments on this?

Ge0 wrote:
*Yup.

Also, I'd like to add. Don't be affraid to buy an amp that has been
repaired or refurbished. Things that were wrong with it originally
have
been corrected. HOWEVER, this all depends on the competency of the
person /
company who performed the repair. I wouldn't trust the work of some
kid
with no knowledge in amp design and a radio shack soldering iron. You
know,
the guy who only knows how to fix stuff if parts are physically blown
off
the board? Amp design and trouble shooting is an art. This work is
better
left to the artists.

*

But Ge0, I thought you did have a radio shack soldering iron. Jon
--
TO-3
------------------------------------------------------------------------
CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over half a million post online!
View this thread: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb2/sh...hreadid=149177

Curious... What are your oppinions about Hifonics series VIII amps and
their repair work? I'm talking about the older Zed Audio (simi valley)
stuff... not the current stuff from china.

I bought an Odin VIII (75x2) for cheap on E-bay, the seller informed me
that it was refurbished by Hifonics in 93. It has hand written, dated
Hifonics repair certification stickers on the inside. The work itself
looks Good, no cold solder joints or sloppy solder work. Although you
can tell that they replaced the main power supply caps and the ...uhh...
big inductor coil. Its not sloppy, but you can tell the joints have
been re-touched. Looks like the previous owner reversed the
power/ground wires and had the wrong value fuse.

I'm just curious, and wondering what to expect from this amp.

???
Garrett

Ge0 wrote:

Yup.

Also, I'd like to add. Don't be affraid to buy an amp that has been
repaired or refurbished. Things that were wrong with it originally have
been corrected. HOWEVER, this all depends on the competency of the person /
company who performed the repair. I wouldn't trust the work of some kid
with no knowledge in amp design and a radio shack soldering iron. You know,
the guy who only knows how to fix stuff if parts are physically blown off
the board? Amp design and trouble shooting is an art. This work is better
left to the artists.

I take great pride in my work and put every amp I work on through a rigorous
burn in and "in vehicle sound test" before I sell it or send it back to my
customer.

Some manufactures are great about repairing amps, others are worse than the
kid with the rat shack soldering iron. I strongly suggest working out a
limited time money back guarantee when buying used / repaired amplifiers.
If things are fine over the first few days of normal use then chances are
the amp is good to go.

For instance, I trust Soundstream amps I have repaired / modified more than
I trust their new product. Soundstream had a repectful design, it just
couldn't be manufactured by cheap labor with any degree of competency. I
had to clean up a number of BOTCH JOBS right out of the factory.
Soundstreams repair personnel seem even worse. I don't have an exact
figure, but I've cleaned up a number of BOTCH JOBS done when these amps were
refurbished and re-certified.

On the other hand, I trust the work of just about any other respectful amp
company out there. I'd buy refurbs from Phoenix Gold, Xtant, Fosgate, MTX,
and others of that nature (altough I've heard a lot of complaints about PPI
lately, this was well before DEI so they are not to blame).

Ge0
*******************************************
TeamAMP #4 - tech whiz type of guy
*******************************************
Low cost car stereo equipment repair/ modification
Contact me for advice or a quote.
Always interested in buying dead equipment too.
********************************************
Looking for answers on car stereo topics?
www.mobileaudio.com
www.teamrocs.com
http://go.to/bcae/
*******************************************
Geo uses:
Main Stage = a/d/s/ 336is.2
Rear fill = a/d/s/ 335is.2
Subs = Audiomobile Mass 2012 S24
Head unit = Denon DCT-1000R
Processor 1 = Orion DEQ30
Processor 2 = Tubedriver LDX-23 3-way x-over
Processor 3 = Ge0 brewed digital time delay
Sub Amp = a/d/s/ P4100.2
Main & rear fill amp = a/d/s/ P840.2
Interconnects = Streetwires ZN2.0, custom balanced and optical cabling
Power distribution = Streetwires
********************************************
Ge0 rides Ventanna and GT double boinger MTB's
Bikes built from deals at WWW.MTBREVIEW.COM
****
"Sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Bench testing is a good thing IMHO, assuming you have access to a
O-scope and really measure its performance. Especially for a "project"
amp in need of repair. Just remember to fuse all the power leads.

I personally lack the knowledge needed to do PCB / component level
trouble shooting so for me its a waste of $$$. I may as well spend the
extra cash for a fully functional / new amp. Generally car audio amps
use off the shelf PCB components, so they can be easy and cheap to
repair. The difficult part is troubleshooting them. Of course if the
PCB fab is fried thats another story.

Garrett



JohanWagener wrote:

Thanx for reply. How bout running it for a while. How long do you have
to
run it. Could it possibly happen that the amp starts giving trouble
after
say an hour or so. I also saw a deal on a 125w X 4 amp that "needs to be
repaired" its sold for dirt cheap. Any comments on this?

I bought a mtx 2160 and 2300 in 1998 second hand. Istill use the amps today.
I just got anew car and havent put them in yet but when I get the cash they
are going in.

"Sanitarium" wrote in message
...
It comes down to how honest the seller is. If you can see the amp in
operation before buying, that helps a little too. I have been buying
hifonics Series VIII amps off E-bay and so far I am satisfied (knock on
wood). They sell for REAL cheap because they are used, have some minor
cosmetic damage, and lack the fancy UV meters, flashing lights, and
pretty chrome accents. The only real way is to open the amp up and see
if its been tampered with, or the PCB shows any signs of damage /
repair. One nice thing about a used amp, is that its been field tested
already.

I stay away from amps that show excessive damage, or signs of being
opened up/tampered with. Minor cosmetic damage is acceptable to me,
since they are out of sight in my car.

Garrett



JohanWagener wrote:

What do you look for to determine whether a second hand amp is still
good or
not. How do you know if it is damaged other than just listening to it.

Although not the prettiest designs, I've always been impressed with the
sound of Zed designed amps. Physical construction leaves a little to be
desired, but that's not everything. If I remember correctly the Hifonics
equipment had a cleaner design than newer stuff like ESX.

I would have no problem recommending one of those older amps. I was pretty
impressed with the numbers a few older Zeus amps were putting up.

I have no experience with Hifonics products made witin the last 5-6 years so
could not comment on the newer creations.


--
Ge0
*******************************************
TeamAMP #4 - tech whiz type of guy
*******************************************
Low cost car stereo equipment repair/ modification
Contact me for advice or a quote.
Always interested in buying dead equipment too.
********************************************
Looking for answers on car stereo topics?
www.mobileaudio.com
www.teamrocs.com
http://go.to/bcae/
*******************************************
Geo uses:
Main Stage = a/d/s/ 336is.2
Rear fill = a/d/s/ 335is.2
Subs = Audiomobile Mass 2012 S24
Head unit = Denon DCT-1000R
Processor 1 = Orion DEQ30
Processor 2 = Tubedriver LDX-23 3-way x-over
Processor 3 = Ge0 brewed digital time delay
Sub Amp = a/d/s/ P4100.2
Main & rear fill amp = a/d/s/ P840.2
Interconnects = Streetwires ZN2.0, custom balanced and optical cabling
Power distribution = Streetwires
********************************************
Ge0 rides Ventanna and GT double boinger MTB's
Bikes built from deals at WWW.MTBREVIEW.COM
****

"Sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Curious... What are your oppinions about Hifonics series VIII amps and
their repair work? I'm talking about the older Zed Audio (simi valley)
stuff... not the current stuff from china.

I bought an Odin VIII (75x2) for cheap on E-bay, the seller informed me
that it was refurbished by Hifonics in 93. It has hand written, dated
Hifonics repair certification stickers on the inside. The work itself
looks Good, no cold solder joints or sloppy solder work. Although you
can tell that they replaced the main power supply caps and the ...uhh...
big inductor coil. Its not sloppy, but you can tell the joints have
been re-touched. Looks like the previous owner reversed the
power/ground wires and had the wrong value fuse.

I'm just curious, and wondering what to expect from this amp.

???
Garrett

Ge0 wrote:

Yup.

Also, I'd like to add. Don't be affraid to buy an amp that has been
repaired or refurbished. Things that were wrong with it originally have
been corrected. HOWEVER, this all depends on the competency of the
person /
company who performed the repair. I wouldn't trust the work of some kid
with no knowledge in amp design and a radio shack soldering iron. You
know,
the guy who only knows how to fix stuff if parts are physically blown
off
the board? Amp design and trouble shooting is an art. This work is
better
left to the artists.

I take great pride in my work and put every amp I work on through a
rigorous
burn in and "in vehicle sound test" before I sell it or send it back to
my
customer.

Some manufactures are great about repairing amps, others are worse than
the
kid with the rat shack soldering iron. I strongly suggest working out a
limited time money back guarantee when buying used / repaired
amplifiers.
If things are fine over the first few days of normal use then chances
are
the amp is good to go.

For instance, I trust Soundstream amps I have repaired / modified more
than
I trust their new product. Soundstream had a repectful design, it just
couldn't be manufactured by cheap labor with any degree of competency.
I
had to clean up a number of BOTCH JOBS right out of the factory.
Soundstreams repair personnel seem even worse. I don't have an exact
figure, but I've cleaned up a number of BOTCH JOBS done when these amps
were
refurbished and re-certified.

On the other hand, I trust the work of just about any other respectful
amp
company out there. I'd buy refurbs from Phoenix Gold, Xtant, Fosgate,
MTX,
and others of that nature (altough I've heard a lot of complaints about
PPI
lately, this was well before DEI so they are not to blame).

Ge0
*******************************************
TeamAMP #4 - tech whiz type of guy
*******************************************
Low cost car stereo equipment repair/ modification
Contact me for advice or a quote.
Always interested in buying dead equipment too.
********************************************
Looking for answers on car stereo topics?
www.mobileaudio.com
www.teamrocs.com
http://go.to/bcae/
*******************************************
Geo uses:
Main Stage = a/d/s/ 336is.2
Rear fill = a/d/s/ 335is.2
Subs = Audiomobile Mass 2012 S24
Head unit = Denon DCT-1000R
Processor 1 = Orion DEQ30
Processor 2 = Tubedriver LDX-23 3-way x-over
Processor 3 = Ge0 brewed digital time delay
Sub Amp = a/d/s/ P4100.2
Main & rear fill amp = a/d/s/ P840.2
Interconnects = Streetwires ZN2.0, custom balanced and optical cabling
Power distribution = Streetwires
********************************************
Ge0 rides Ventanna and GT double boinger MTB's
Bikes built from deals at WWW.MTBREVIEW.COM
****
"Sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Bench testing is a good thing IMHO, assuming you have access to a
O-scope and really measure its performance. Especially for a
"project"
amp in need of repair. Just remember to fuse all the power leads.

I personally lack the knowledge needed to do PCB / component level
trouble shooting so for me its a waste of $$$. I may as well spend
the
extra cash for a fully functional / new amp. Generally car audio amps
use off the shelf PCB components, so they can be easy and cheap to
repair. The difficult part is troubleshooting them. Of course if the
PCB fab is fried thats another story.

Garrett



JohanWagener wrote:

Thanx for reply. How bout running it for a while. How long do you
have
to
run it. Could it possibly happen that the amp starts giving trouble
after
say an hour or so. I also saw a deal on a 125w X 4 amp that "needs
to be
repaired" its sold for dirt cheap. Any comments on this?