Hi,
I'm about to buy a pair of monitors for my home studio and I've found a
couple of NS10M at a good price.
In your opinion now, that a lot of new monitors not too expensive (like
Event Tr,Ps series), are on the market, is still a good choice buying a pair
of NS10M or I'd better choose a newer pair of monitors?
Thank you.
Bye.

Zed wrote:
I'm about to buy a pair of monitors for my home studio and I've found a
couple of NS10M at a good price.
In your opinion now, that a lot of new monitors not too expensive (like
Event Tr,Ps series), are on the market, is still a good choice buying a pair
of NS10M or I'd better choose a newer pair of monitors?

Personally, I would rather hammer knives into my ears than listen to NS-10s
all day long. But lots of people like them.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Zed wrote:

Hi,
I'm about to buy a pair of monitors for my home studio and I've found a
couple of NS10M at a good price.
In your opinion now, that a lot of new monitors not too expensive (like
Event Tr,Ps series), are on the market, is still a good choice buying a pair
of NS10M or I'd better choose a newer pair of monitors?

Depends if you like the sound of them.

I consider them way over-rated. They're a standard of a sort though.

Graham

Hi,
I'm about to buy a pair of monitors for my home studio and I've found a
couple of NS10M at a good price.
In your opinion now, that a lot of new monitors not too expensive (like
Event Tr,Ps series), are on the market, is still a good choice buying a pair
of NS10M or I'd better choose a newer pair of monitors?

Personally, I would rather hammer knives into my ears than listen to
NS-10s
all day long. But lots of people like them.

Someone has other suggestions? Please! I need'em for my choice...thank you!

I had some NS-10s for a few years. I think the best thing about them
was learning what I didn't like. When I first got them, they sounded
fine. So I used them until I knew what was missing, then I bought
something else.

I think it's a good idea to learn what these monitors sound like so
you know why folks have such a love/hate relationship with them.

Go for it!

dave

Zed wrote:
I'm about to buy a pair of monitors for my home studio and I've found a
couple of NS10M at a good price.
In your opinion now, that a lot of new monitors not too expensive (like
Event Tr,Ps series), are on the market, is still a good choice buying a pair
of NS10M or I'd better choose a newer pair of monitors?

Personally, I would rather hammer knives into my ears than listen to
NS-10s
all day long. But lots of people like them.

Someone has other suggestions? Please! I need'em for my choice...thank you!

Well, what monitors do you like the sound of?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Well, what monitors do you like the sound of?

I've listened to Event Tr6 and I like their clarity and spatiality so I
don't know if I'd better buy this model or choose the older NS10m. I'd like
to know if NS10m that have been a standard for many years, are still a good
choice, compared to new monitors on the market or if it is better to buy a
newer model.
Thank you again.
Bye.

with unquestioned accuracy of thought, Zed replied:

Well, what monitors do you like the sound of?

I've listened to Event Tr6 and I like their clarity and spatiality so I
don't know if I'd better buy this model or choose the older NS10m. I'd like
to know if NS10m that have been a standard for many years, are still a good
choice, compared to new monitors on the market or if it is better to buy a
newer model.
Thank you again.
Bye.


I don't think NS 10's can be thought of as better or worse. They were a de
facto standard in the industry when there were fewer standards. At one
point, and this grossly over simplifies things, there were Westlakes for the
standard big soffited monitors, JBL 4311's for standard bookshelf monitors,
NS 10's for smaller bookshelf speakers and Auratone 5c's for small radio/car
speaker reference monitors. It seemed like all studios had a version of
this line up. Swap out Uries for the JBL's, Tannoys for the Westlakes
etc...

It wasn't because they were the best speakers, it was because they were the
standards so everybody could be listening with a similar point of reference.
Each speaker reveals certain things and are used for that purpose.

The NS 10's have a sound that reveals certain things. Most say it is a
nasty midrange. The thinking, if you can make it sound great on NS 10's it
will sound great across a wide selection of speakers. So it is not about
the Yamahas being great speakers, itis more like they are a tool for getting
a mix sounding right.

I have a pair in my living room that I use with a sub. It is one of the
systems I use for listening to mixes on alternate systems. I have Auratone
5c's on the bridge in the control room and in 2 other rooms in my
house/studio also for reference. I also have 4311's, Century 100's and bose
901's I can hook up to listen to.

For me, I don't listen to speakers in terms of best/worst, good/bad. I
listen to them as different points of view.

BTW, I also have Tannoy PBM 8's and Hafler M5's on the bridge in the control
room. And a Tannoy sub.

I would get the NS 10's just to have them. They were classics. Gotta love
'em for that. That's my pea-brained view of things...Patric

Zed wrote:
Well, what monitors do you like the sound of?

I've listened to Event Tr6 and I like their clarity and spatiality so I
don't know if I'd better buy this model or choose the older NS10m. I'd like
to know if NS10m that have been a standard for many years, are still a good
choice, compared to new monitors on the market or if it is better to buy a
newer model.

The NS-10 is a standard because it is everywhere, and it sounds like crappy
home speakers, so you know what your mix sounds like on crappy home speakers.
If this is important to you (and if you are regularly going from one studio
to the next, this can be very important), get the NS-10s. If it is not, get
something else.

I found the TR-6 sort of harsh and forward on the top end, but nowhere near
as harsh and forward as the NS-10.

Go out and listen to some speakers. Buy the ones you like.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article , Scott Dorsey
wrote:

The NS-10 is a standard because it is everywhere, and it sounds like crappy
home speakers, so you know what your mix sounds like on crappy home speakers.
If this is important to you (and if you are regularly going from one studio
to the next, this can be very important), get the NS-10s. If it is not, get
something else.



Scott has this jihad against ns-10's. The fact that tons of pros use
them to get the job done (why do you think they're everywhere??) is
somehow inconsequential. Yes, like any pair of speakers, they take
getting used to.

So Scott, what are your fave small monitors for mixing? Do you mix much?




David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com

They're everywhere because (A) Yamaha gave many, many sets to studios when
they were introduced, in an attempt to take market share away from JBL and
AR (the most common near fields at that time next to Auratones, which were
really used for a different purpose). Since they were so prevalent,
engineers learned that they were at least consistently bad, and learned how
to use them as a recognizable reference when they took projects from studio
to studio. Then, as more beginners and amateurs subscribed to Mix Magazine
and saw all of those cover photos of big studios with NS-10's, the beginners
wrongly assumed that the NS-10's were common in high end studios because
they were 'good', when the reality was that they were 'good' because they
were common..
--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

"david" wrote in message
...


Scott has this jihad against ns-10's. The fact that tons of pros use
them to get the job done (why do you think they're everywhere??) is
somehow inconsequential. Yes, like any pair of speakers, they take
getting used to.

So Scott, what are your fave small monitors for mixing? Do you mix much?

In article ,
david wrote:
In article , Scott Dorsey
wrote:

The NS-10 is a standard because it is everywhere, and it sounds like crappy
home speakers, so you know what your mix sounds like on crappy home speakers.
If this is important to you (and if you are regularly going from one studio
to the next, this can be very important), get the NS-10s. If it is not, get
something else.

Scott has this jihad against ns-10's. The fact that tons of pros use
them to get the job done (why do you think they're everywhere??) is
somehow inconsequential. Yes, like any pair of speakers, they take
getting used to.

It does get the job done, and it's a great check mix monitor. But I cannot
imagine using them as mains. They are everywhere, but most of the places
where they are, they are being used as check mix boxes and they are not
the only monitor in the room.

I have a jihad against people using NS-10s as main mix boxes. Nothing wrong
with using them as check mix devices; that's what they are intended for.

So Scott, what are your fave small monitors for mixing? Do you mix much?

I'm still using the NHT Super Ones, and the NHT A-20s in the field. For
years I used the LS 3/5a, which is a spectacular sounding little box if you
can ignore the lack of low end. I like the little baby SLS monitors a lot
(though the sweet spot is small, the tight dispersion can be a real help in
a bad room). And for years I mixed on old AR-4X home speakers in the truck.
They didn't have great top end extension, but they weren't shrieky at least.

I'm sorry, but I want accurate midrange on monitors. With the NS-10, I can
make comparably large eq changes and not hear any difference in the monitors,
differences that are very obvious even on the cheap Super Ones.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

They're everywhere because (A) Yamaha gave many, many sets to studios when
they were introduced, in an attempt to take market share away from JBL and
AR (the most common near fields at that time next to Auratones, which were
really used for a different purpose).

I don't remember it quite that way. I remember everyone looking for something
"better" than was out there for nearfields. People had 4311's but they were
big and losing favor like things do.

The NS10 was only sold in stereo stores and was not a pro audio item when they
caught on. That's why years later the revamped NS10m was introduced and sold
at pro audio stores.

The original NS10's sounded like bigger, louder auratones and were easy to get
used to switching back and forth. I saw a couple guys using them and noticed
they sold them at Rogers Sound Labs in the Valley (L.A.). They spread like
wild fire, but I never witnessed Yamaha giving them away.




---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

david wrote:

In article , Scott Dorsey
wrote:

The NS-10 is a standard because it is everywhere, and it sounds like crappy
home speakers, so you know what your mix sounds like on crappy home speakers.
If this is important to you (and if you are regularly going from one studio
to the next, this can be very important), get the NS-10s. If it is not, get
something else.

Scott has this jihad against ns-10's. The fact that tons of pros use
them to get the job done (why do you think they're everywhere??) is
somehow inconsequential. Yes, like any pair of speakers, they take
getting used to.


The problem with NS10's is that they take far more getting used to than
other speakers. If you understand them then they're fine, but I switched
from NS10's to LS3/5a's and the number of people coming back to remix
because they'd originally mixed on the nearfields without understanding
what the nearfields were telling them dropped to zero.

Cheers.

James.

EggHd wrote:

The original NS10's sounded like bigger, louder auratones and were easy to get
used to switching back and forth. I saw a couple guys using them and noticed
they sold them at Rogers Sound Labs in the Valley (L.A.). They spread like
wild fire, but I never witnessed Yamaha giving them away.

They gave us some, but admittedly a lot of manufacturers gave free stuff to
the big studios back then.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I finally sold mine this year. Oddly, for about $150 more than I paid
for them new 7 years prior. I really liked them for the reasons
stated. I got used to guessing the bass and was able to mix on them. I
also had a pair of JBLs that were truer in the lows but pretty lousey.
What prompted me to sell them both was mixing a job I did on Dynaudio
Airs. I realized what I was missing in both the NS10s and JBLS - the
ability to hear sublety and detail. I don't miss them but if I had
unlimited money I'd probably own a pair and an amp, just for the hell
of it.

In article , Scott Dorsey
wrote:

Scott has this jihad against ns-10's. The fact that tons of pros use
them to get the job done (why do you think they're everywhere??) is
somehow inconsequential. Yes, like any pair of speakers, they take
getting used to.

It does get the job done, and it's a great check mix monitor. But I cannot
imagine using them as mains.


This is an interesting point, as I'd bet most of the folks asking the
ns10 question here will have small monitors for their "mains" in their
basement/bedroom studios.

I would say how can you have any small monitor as a main, but folks
gotta live with their situation. No room for soffit mounted 813's in
the spare bedroom.



They are everywhere, but most of the places
where they are, they are being used as check mix boxes and they are not
the only monitor in the room.

I have a jihad against people using NS-10s as main mix boxes. Nothing wrong
with using them as check mix devices; that's what they are intended for.


Scott, this is not accurate. They are not just check mix boxes. Tons of
us use them to mix. I'll typically spend about 60% of my time mixing
using them, 35% on my big monitors, and the rest final checking on AKG
240's and/or Grado 80's.

Power them with a nice amp like a 4B, don't blast them, and they won't
fatigue your ears. I'm sure I have something to do with it, but folks
love the mixes I create with them.





David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com

Get The NS10s

If you learn to mix on NS10s you can learn to mix on anything.
I've never met a pro that didn't know how to mix on ns10s. Unless all
they do is rap music...

"Jeremy Stephens" wrote in message
om...
Get The NS10s

If you learn to mix on NS10s you can learn to mix on anything.
I've never met a pro that didn't know how to mix on ns10s. Unless all
they do is rap music...

If you can learn to build cars with two pieces of wire and a tin can, you
can learn to build cars with anything. Your analogy is flawed for several
reasons. First, no full time mixer that I've ever met uses NS-10's alone to
mix; NS-10's are a reference speaker, but you simply cannot hear the bass
frequencies on them; therefore, you can't know what the low end is doing
(unless you're one of those guys who advocates watching the speaker
excursion to know what's happening below 100Hz). Second, the guys who use
NS-10's as part of their mixing process already know how to mix; they've
adapted their knowledge of what a mix should sound like to the inadequacies
of the Yamaha speakers. It doesn't work the other way around.

I can (and have) done mixes using NS-10s as one of the speaker pairs; I
would never try to do the whole mix with them alone. Your mileage apparently
differs...

--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

In article , EggHd
wrote:

They spread like
wild fire, but I never witnessed Yamaha giving them away.

I didn't either, everybody I know bought and paid good money for their
NS-10s.

In New York, there was a tradition of using whatever happened to be the
biggest selling consumer hi-fi speaker. This began with the KLH-6,
moved to the JBL L-100 and ended with the Yamaha NS-4 with a few others
used in betwen. As it happened, the NS-4 translated extraordinaraly
well so a lot of people, including me, began using them instead of JBL
4310/11s or L-100s.

Yamaha was never equipped to supply the amount of replacement drivers
needed for a pro studio speaker so NS-4s quickly disappeared after they
caught on. The NS-10 was a more expensive speaker that happened to be
the most like a NS-4 although the low-end wasn't as good and the top
end was pinched in comparison, but, you could get replacement drivers
so the NS-10 was the one. This was cemented by an article on Bob
Clearmountain that mentioned he used them with tissue over the tweeters
in order to make them sound more like NS-4s. `Like lemmings, almost
overnight everybody was using NS-10s with tissue paper.

I still use mine as a reference point but would never want them as my
only point of reference.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN 615.385.8051
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
http://www.hyperback.com/olhsson.html
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!

In article ,
Bob Olhsson wrote:

In New York, there was a tradition of using whatever happened to be the
biggest selling consumer hi-fi speaker. This began with the KLH-6,
moved to the JBL L-100 and ended with the Yamaha NS-4 with a few others
used in betwen. As it happened, the NS-4 translated extraordinaraly
well so a lot of people, including me, began using them instead of JBL
4310/11s or L-100s.

Slightly before my time, but I think some guys were also using Advents.

DC

This was cemented by an article on Bob
Clearmountain that mentioned he used them with tissue over the tweeters
in order to make them sound more like NS-4s.

My memory may be faulty but I remember this being about 2 or three years after
NS10's were being used by some.

It also was part of why Yamaha re did the crossover and tweaters to release the
NS10M Studio through pro audio shops.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

In article ,
Dave Collins wrote:

Slightly before my time, but I think some guys were also using Advents.

Yes indeed but I couldn't remember if it was before or after the JBLs.
Logically it would be right after the KLH-6s. I bought some Advents in
1973 but I think most folks were already using 4310s.

We were using AR-3s, 604Es and a 6x9 that Cal Harris took out of the
back of his 'vette.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN 615.385.8051
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
http://www.hyperback.com/olhsson.html
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!

In article , EggHd
wrote:

My memory may be faulty but I remember this being about 2 or three years after
NS10's were being used by some.

Yes it was. NS-4s had been really hard to get for a few years.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN 615.385.8051
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
http://www.hyperback.com/olhsson.html
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!

"Bob Olhsson" wrote in message
...
In article , EggHd
This was cemented by an article on Bob
Clearmountain that mentioned he used them with tissue over the tweeters
in order to make them sound more like NS-4s. `Like lemmings, almost
overnight everybody was using NS-10s with tissue paper.


Is there a specific brand or ply that works best....?

"Dave Martin" wrote in message
...

They're everywhere because (A) Yamaha gave many, many sets to studios when
they were introduced, in an attempt to take market share away from JBL and
AR (the most common near fields at that time next to Auratones, which were
really used for a different purpose). Since they were so prevalent,
engineers learned that they were at least consistently bad, and learned
how
to use them as a recognizable reference when they took projects from
studio
to studio. Then, as more beginners and amateurs subscribed to Mix Magazine
and saw all of those cover photos of big studios with NS-10's, the
beginners
wrongly assumed that the NS-10's were common in high end studios because
they were 'good', when the reality was that they were 'good' because they
were common..

And the white woofer cone was a maketing coupe, not a functional factor
(unless it was to match the inevitable white snotex taped over the tweeter
in an attempt to make them less ear-shredding).


geoff

"Ricky W. Hunt" wrote in message
news:yHCAb.254199$Dw6.875033@attbi_s02...
"Bob Olhsson" wrote in message
...
In article , EggHd
This was cemented by an article on Bob
Clearmountain that mentioned he used them with tissue over the tweeters
in order to make them sound more like NS-4s. `Like lemmings, almost
overnight everybody was using NS-10s with tissue paper.


Is there a specific brand or ply that works best....?

Snotex. If 'used' you don't even need sticky tape to hold them !

geoff

Someone (re-p?) did a test of the TP-over-the-tweeter business, and found a
whole lot of comb filtering and general bad performance. Remember that a comb
plus tissue paper equals a kazoo!

Peace,
Paul

Is there a specific brand or ply that works best....?

I think there was something about (if I recall) kimwipes.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

In article writes:

Someone (re-p?) did a test of the TP-over-the-tweeter business, and found a
whole lot of comb filtering and general bad performance.

As I recall the article, it didn't talk about bad performance (unless
that was your interpretation) but rather it explained the effect of
the tissue paper as being comb filtering rather than simple high
frequency attenuation due to added density.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article ,
Bob Olhsson wrote:

Yes indeed but I couldn't remember if it was before or after the JBLs.
Logically it would be right after the KLH-6s. I bought some Advents in
1973 but I think most folks were already using 4310s.

Those Boston records were mixed on Advents, as I recall.

We were using AR-3s, 604Es and a 6x9 that Cal Harris took out of the
back of his 'vette.

All probably better than 80% of what's available today....

Was the 6x9 put in a box?

DC

In article ,
Dave Collins wrote:

Was the 6x9 put in a box?

One of those 7x10x3 chrome boxes!

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN 615.385.8051
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
http://www.hyperback.com/olhsson.html
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!

If you can learn to build cars with two pieces of wire and a tin can,
you can learn to build cars with anything.

I think its called a ford focus.

Your analogy is flawed for several reasons. First, no full time mixer
that I've ever met uses NS-10's alone to mix;

Where did I use the word "alone"?

NS-10's are a reference speaker, but you simply cannot hear the bass
frequencies on them;

No ****....

therefore, you can't know what the low end is doing

Yet they're good at finding where the kick and bass "sit" in a
mix.

Second, the guys who use NS-10's as part of their mixing process
already know how to mix; they've adapted their knowledge of what a mix
should sound like to the inadequacies of the Yamaha speakers. It
doesn't work the other way around.

I'll buy that; they are using NS-10s to check a mix. I guess I do
this. but if I find the acoustic guitar is to dark and the drum reverb
is to loud, then proceed to make adjustments, by my definition of the
word, I am officially mixing on ns-10s.

I can (and have) done mixes using NS-10s as one of the speaker pairs;
I would never try to do the whole mix with them alone.

I tried it.........I rarely do mixes on just one pair of monitors
no matter what brand they are.

Your mileage apparently differs...

I'm sure it does....
You can talk all day about what sucks about ns-10s (they don't
sound good, they are fatiguing and they have little white woofers) but
at the end of the day, they translate amazingly well for cheap
speakers.

"P Stamler" wrote in message
...
Someone (re-p?) did a test of the TP-over-the-tweeter business, and found
a
whole lot of comb filtering and general bad performance. Remember that a
comb
plus tissue paper equals a kazoo!

And then they put the tissue on ....

geoff