Hi, I'm trying to use the microphone jack on my thinkpad to do some
recording of acoustic guitar music and notice that there is a lot of
distortion on the bass strings when I turn the volume up loud. Is this
a recording issue on the laptop? Or is it a playback issue (the
speakers weren't meant to play that loud?) pre-recorded commercial
CD's sound fine. This is a brand new T40 thinkpad. I'm wondering if
the pre-amp (?) in the laptop is not really suited to music recording?

Is there separate equipment I need to make high quality recordings on
the laptop?

Thanks,
-Ellen

On 30 Nov 2003 06:09:13 -0800, (Ellen Quaadgras)
wrote:

Hi, I'm trying to use the microphone jack on my thinkpad to do some
recording of acoustic guitar music and notice that there is a lot of
distortion on the bass strings when I turn the volume up loud. Is this
a recording issue on the laptop? Or is it a playback issue (the
speakers weren't meant to play that loud?) pre-recorded commercial
CD's sound fine. This is a brand new T40 thinkpad. I'm wondering if
the pre-amp (?) in the laptop is not really suited to music recording?

Is there separate equipment I need to make high quality recordings on
the laptop?

Thanks,
-Ellen

The preamp in a stock laptop is usually not a very good one.
If you cant get a good sound no matter what you try, give this link a
look.

http://www.zzounds.com/cat--USB-Audio-Interfaces--2424

There are a lot of usb interfaces listed there, any of which would be
simple to use on a laptop.And the sound quality would be superior to a
stock laptop preamp/converter

Randall

If you're trying to play the sound back on the dinky little speakers in the
computer -- it's no wonder you're getting distortion!

Try playing the recording over a _good_ system before making any final
judgements.

Ellen Quaadgras wrote:
Hi, I'm trying to use the microphone jack on my thinkpad to do some
recording of acoustic guitar music and notice that there is a lot of
distortion on the bass strings when I turn the volume up loud. Is this
a recording issue on the laptop? Or is it a playback issue (the
speakers weren't meant to play that loud?) pre-recorded commercial
CD's sound fine. This is a brand new T40 thinkpad. I'm wondering if
the pre-amp (?) in the laptop is not really suited to music recording?

What microphone are you using, and what do you have between the microphone
and the thinkpad?

You can find out if it's a playback issue by burning the recording on a
CD-R and taking it somewhere else to listen to.

Is there separate equipment I need to make high quality recordings on
the laptop?

What is your standard for high quality?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Abyssmal wrote in message . ..
On 30 Nov 2003 06:09:13 -0800, (Ellen Quaadgras)
wrote:

Hi, I'm trying to use the microphone jack on my thinkpad to do some
recording of acoustic guitar music and notice that there is a lot of
distortion on the bass strings when I turn the volume up loud. Is this
a recording issue on the laptop? Or is it a playback issue (the
speakers weren't meant to play that loud?) pre-recorded commercial
CD's sound fine. This is a brand new T40 thinkpad. I'm wondering if
the pre-amp (?) in the laptop is not really suited to music recording?

Is there separate equipment I need to make high quality recordings on
the laptop?

Thanks,
-Ellen

The preamp in a stock laptop is usually not a very good one.
If you cant get a good sound no matter what you try, give this link a
look.

http://www.zzounds.com/cat--USB-Audio-Interfaces--2424

There are a lot of usb interfaces listed there, any of which would be
simple to use on a laptop.And the sound quality would be superior to a
stock laptop preamp/converter

Randall

I make the best USB box from sound quality stand point, and the
package includes the easiest to use recording software. Go to
www.lavryengineering.com and look for the Mini PRS-2 (PRS for personal
recording studio), under new products.

I too use an IBM thinkpad, but that does not matter. As was correctly
pointed out, listning to a laptop speaker is hopeless. You do better
with headphones, but still far from OK. My recorder parks the data on
the hard drive, so it is one step from making a music CD (than you can
go to a good listning setup - music CD player with good amp and
speakers). You could do a high rate MP3 and go to your desktop for
better speakers. Still poor, but 1000 better than the laptop.

Am I bashing of the laptop? Not so. The laptop provides not just
portability, but also freedom from that loud fan noise of a typical
desktop. That is so much better for recording!

I have both consulted with a lot of experts and tried things in the
lab and decided that portable applications work better with dynamic
mics. You put DC voltage on a cable (for condensers), and it becomes a
secondary microphone - you tap it and hear a thump. Also condensers
are very suceptible to vibrations. They are the mic of choice to many
fixed facilities, where you can keep things steady (mics and cables).
But do to broadcasting facilities, or for portable applications, and
you see dynamics. But look at the specs and make sure you are getting
the frequency range you need, or better yet, talk to folks you trust
and get recomandations.

In my development work, I soon found out that any 2 wire cabling
system, such as the slew of electret mics for comupter voice
applications, is good enough for just that, computer voice
applications... It is not just the mics, it is also the cables. A 1.5V
phantom is enough to make it so the the slightest movment of cable
makes real noise, not subtle. With a 2 wire system, I piked up radio
and TV! The only way for good mics is the 3 wire connection (balanced
pair and a shield).

Computers are great for computing, storing, displaying... But if you
are looking for a place where the enviornment is really hostile for
analog signals, it is the inside of a computer. Huge amount of
electromagnetic radiation and dirty supply, pefectly suited for
digital work, are worst for small analog signals, AD converters
(including clock jitter problem).
So I decided to have the mic preamps, AD's and crystal clock on
outside the computer. Everything else is inside your laptop.

Actualy, the mic pre gain control is outside at the mic preamp, but
the gain steps (1dB steps) is controled via the software. It is sent
to the Mini PRS-2 by the usb connection.

One last comment for now: the unit work with a lot of operating
systems and all sorts of software. Much of the software is very
powerfull and often expansive. Not a bad thing for some, but much of
the softawre seems to take some seriuos investment in both learning
and experince. I opted for "stste of the art in user friendliness". My
software is limited to basic recording, but nothing is simpler or
easier than that! The music can always (and probably should) be
processed with other software, or sent to a mastering person, for EQ
fades reverb balance or whatever...

Sorry for the self serving parts. I am sure some of what I said is of
general interest. I stand by what I said.

BR

Dan Lavry
www.lavryengineering.com

dan lavry wrote:

I make the best USB box from sound quality stand point, and the
package includes the easiest to use recording software. Go to
www.lavryengineering.com and look for the Mini PRS-2 (PRS for personal
recording studio), under new products.

Yes, I noticed it a couple days back. Any way to make it work with a
Mac? Are you using a common USB chipset that might allow some sort of
generic drivers to work?


--thanks

If I'm not mistaken, the T40 only hs a microphone jack, not a line in jack.
Problem #1. The speakers in the T40 are horrible, are for some odd reason
pointed at the surface the laptop is sitting on! Problem #2.

Have you got the 20db boost turned on for the mic input, if so, you might
want to try turning it off. Go into volume control (doubleclick the speaker
icon down near the clock), go to options and make sure advanced controls is
ticked. Then go to properties, and click in the radio button that says ( )
Recording. then make sure the box next to Microphone is ticked. Click
ok.Under Microphone, click the Advanced button. There's usually an option
labelled something like "Microphone 20dB Boost" or something. If it's
ticked, untick it, click close and try again. If it's unticked, click close
and move the microphone slider down a bit.

If you're using a decent recording program (not sound recorder.....) then it
should have input VU meters so you can monitor the volume you're sending
into the computer. Make sure you don't go into the red, red is distortion.

Good luck with the recording.

"Ellen Quaadgras" wrote in message
om...
Hi, I'm trying to use the microphone jack on my thinkpad to do some
recording of acoustic guitar music and notice that there is a lot of
distortion on the bass strings when I turn the volume up loud. Is this
a recording issue on the laptop? Or is it a playback issue (the
speakers weren't meant to play that loud?) pre-recorded commercial
CD's sound fine. This is a brand new T40 thinkpad. I'm wondering if
the pre-amp (?) in the laptop is not really suited to music recording?

Is there separate equipment I need to make high quality recordings on
the laptop?

Thanks,
-Ellen

dan lavry wrote:

I make the best USB box from sound quality stand point, and the
package includes the easiest to use recording software. Go to
www.lavryengineering.com and look for the Mini PRS-2 (PRS for personal
recording studio), under new products.

I did go there, but I didn't see mention of Mac drivers. You got 'em?
Very interesting little box, Dan. Cool. Would fit a teacher friend's
needs precisely, if it had Mac drivers.

--
ha

In article ,
(LeBaron & Alrich) wrote:

I did go there, but I didn't see mention of Mac drivers. You got 'em?
Very interesting little box, Dan. Cool. Would fit a teacher friend's
needs precisely, if it had Mac drivers.

http://www.lavryengineering.com/miniprs2.html 3rd paragraph, 2nd sentence:
"It also operates with Mac OS 9 and OS X machines."

Kurt Albershardt wrote in message ...
dan lavry wrote:

I make the best USB box from sound quality stand point, and the
package includes the easiest to use recording software. Go to
www.lavryengineering.com and look for the Mini PRS-2 (PRS for personal
recording studio), under new products.

Yes, I noticed it a couple days back. Any way to make it work with a
Mac? Are you using a common USB chipset that might allow some sort of
generic drivers to work?


--thanks

Yes, it works with Mac OS 9 or later, and it is a going to work with
the generic USB drivers. Mac has a lot of music software, and anything
that can deal with AIFF files will be fine. The included recording
software is for PC only, but the Mini PRS-2 is a fundumentaly a
hardware piece.

BR

Dan Lavry

David Morton wrote:

Alrich wrote:

I did go there, but I didn't see mention of Mac drivers. You got 'em?
Very interesting little box, Dan. Cool. Would fit a teacher friend's
needs precisely, if it had Mac drivers.

http://www.lavryengineering.com/miniprs2.html 3rd paragraph, 2nd sentence:
"It also operates with Mac OS 9 and OS X machines."

Thanks, David. I should have looked longer and harder. But what a neat
discovery. I'm liable to be able to suggest that little thing to several
folks.

--
ha

(David Morton) wrote in message .uk...
In article ,
(LeBaron & Alrich) wrote:

I did go there, but I didn't see mention of Mac drivers. You got 'em?
Very interesting little box, Dan. Cool. Would fit a teacher friend's
needs precisely, if it had Mac drivers.

http://www.lavryengineering.com/miniprs2.html 3rd paragraph, 2nd sentence:
"It also operates with Mac OS 9 and OS X machines."

Third paragraph down, it says that it will operate with Mac OS9 an
OSX.
But yes, I will have to evolve the web site a bit.

I put a lot more into the PC compatibility, partly because the Mac is
already so oriented towards audio, partly because the PC is more
widley used. But I am quickly finding out that the Mac suport of USB
is very seemless and fine.

Speaking about drivers, I had 2 ways to go. The stable and robust way
was to use the generic drivers. The other way was to develop my own.
Some of those are less than stable at times... The advatage(?) of the
customized drivers is that you can have 24 bits. I opted for a stable
16 bits. Frankley, there is no AD out there that yields 24 bits (144dB
dynamic range). Add the mic pre in front, and be honest about it: It
will be good if the combination of mic pre and AD will give you a real
16 bits. That is assuming you spend a lot of money for AD's and
preamps. So the Mini PRS-2 will give you a pretty good 16 bits
performance at low cost $250.

The combination is pretty high up on that "diminishing returns" curve.
Of course you will get better results from a dB4496 converter, not to
mention the AD122 MKII. But at what costs? So I designed it to offer
value - maximum performance at a given low cost. Speaking of costs, we
do not knock them off using 30 cents an hour kids in a dark basment in
China. It is a made by America (Seattle area) and each unit is tested
and re tested by my excelent techs here. So the profit margins are a
bit smaller, but we are feeling good about it, and the buyers will
too.

You are right on target! I was thinking about music teachers as one of
the primary markets. The first unit sold went to my son's ex piano
teacher. The second one also to a music teacher...

The unit comes with Lavry recording software for the PC, I do not have
software for the MAC. But it would work with most of the Mac music
software. If the software can handle AIFF format, it certainly will.

BR
Dan Lavry

In article writes:

http://www.lavryengineering.com/miniprs2.html

Thanks, David. I should have looked longer and harder. But what a neat
discovery. I'm liable to be able to suggest that little thing to several
folks.

The thing you need to realize (and I didn't because I'm so accustomed
to seeing something else that looks like this) is that Dan's USB audio
interface is an input-only device. Playback is through something else.
The auido playback of a current Powerbook is probably good enough to
check that you have actually recorded something, and of course you can
burn the WAV files direct to a CD in the computer and play that. Also,
if you need phantom power for the mics, it has to be external.

This is a high quality limited-purpose device. Nothing wrong with
designing things like that - it lets the designer concentrate on the
parts that he thinks are really important, in this case accurately
caputring incoming audio. But (in many ways) it's not a TASCAM US-122
or M-Audio MobilePre or Apogee MiniMe.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo