Howdy. I have a Fostex D2424LV that backs up (annoyingly) to an external,
scsi, DVD-Ram drive. My computer is on the other side of the house from my
studio. If I get a scsi card, can I import the tracks into my computer?

"Doc Gorpon" wrote in message
...
Howdy. I have a Fostex D2424LV that backs up (annoyingly) to an
external,
scsi, DVD-Ram drive. My computer is on the other side of the house from my
studio. If I get a scsi card, can I import the tracks into my computer?

I'm pretty sure you can't do that. I think some of the confusion comes from
the way certain rack mount samplers can do that. The sampler is setup to
look like a SCSI device, the D2424LV and the computer SCSI card are
controllers looking for SCSI devices. Besides, I don't think SCSI is going
to work well all the way across a house, unless it's a really small house.

You might want to look into getting the ethernet option for your D2424LV.
It's the 8360 ethernet option card. List is $299, street is $249 (
according to http://www.bayviewproaudio.com/fostex_d2424lv.html ) I don't
have this option myself.

Best of luck Doc!

John L Rice

I'm pretty sure you can't do that. I think some of the confusion comes from
the way certain rack mount samplers can do that. The sampler is setup to
look like a SCSI device, the D2424LV and the computer SCSI card are
controllers looking for SCSI devices. Besides, I don't think SCSI is going
to work well all the way across a house, unless it's a really small house.

Thanks for the answers guys. However, I wanted to clarify what I think is a
misconception about my intention.
I was hoping to get a scsi card, so that I could take the external dvd-ram
drive (with the disc inside that has the fostex backup material) and hook THAT
up to my computer. Somehow get the info from the backup source onto the
computer that way. Not hook the fostex directly into the computer.
I'm thinking the ethernet thing might be the way to go. But one more
question:
What if I get a dvd-ram drive, internal, on my pc? Will it be able to read
the backup discs made from the external scsi drive? Is it possible to get a
dvd-ram drive put into a pc these days?
And this is all assuming that there is some sort of rip available so that my
computer can read whatever proprietary fostex files the backup disc will be.

Just a thought,
I don't know anything about the dvd-ram backups or the newer software used
for it but I used to track with a D80 which I backed up to dat tape.
(yea..annoying!!)

But, it transfered the audio to dat intact, ...each stereo pair (1-2/3-4
etc) was recorded(backed up) in sequence and in realtime to the dat tape
with a short beep at the project start of each pair so all could be easily
aligned once I recorded/transfered them into my daw. You might be able to do
something similar with the files on the dvdram....(mabye??).

Good luck,
Mike


"Doc Gorpon" wrote in message
...
I'm pretty sure you can't do that. I think some of the confusion comes
from
the way certain rack mount samplers can do that. The sampler is setup to
look like a SCSI device, the D2424LV and the computer SCSI card are
controllers looking for SCSI devices. Besides, I don't think SCSI is
going
to work well all the way across a house, unless it's a really small
house.

Thanks for the answers guys. However, I wanted to clarify what I think
is a
misconception about my intention.
I was hoping to get a scsi card, so that I could take the external
dvd-ram
drive (with the disc inside that has the fostex backup material) and hook
THAT
up to my computer. Somehow get the info from the backup source onto the
computer that way. Not hook the fostex directly into the computer.
I'm thinking the ethernet thing might be the way to go. But one more
question:
What if I get a dvd-ram drive, internal, on my pc? Will it be able to
read
the backup discs made from the external scsi drive? Is it possible to get
a
dvd-ram drive put into a pc these days?
And this is all assuming that there is some sort of rip available so
that my
computer can read whatever proprietary fostex files the backup disc will
be.

You said it well enough to understand, but some synths allowed a scsi drive
to sit between a synth and a computer and still have access from both,
because the synth looked like a scsi device. Yours has a controller, which
is what John was talking about. Can have multiple devices on a controller,
not multiple controllers on a device.

However, since the unit HAS dual drive capability, why the hassle about the
DVD-RAM? Why not just use another drive, assuming that the Fostex will
output (export) the raw wave data to .wav on the second drive? Then you
simply carry that drive in and slap it into your computer. And yes, you
could probably do the same thing with DVD-RAM, and it would be easier, but
DVD-RAM is SLOOOOWWWW in comparison to hard disk transfers. I just did some
more backups of some shows I'd left on the hard drive, and the DVD-RAM
transfer was about an hour each for 8 tracks of 24/44.1. Now I admit, I'm
not all that knowledgable on the D2424LV, but I make the wild hair
assumption that one cannot do backups during a session, so that means X
amount of time for the export/transfer function, and then about the same
amount of time for the transfer to HD in the computer, of which both will
significantly be slower than simply transferring digitally on playback. And
as far as my computer system is concerned, I can load in the tracks of a
DVD-RAM, but I can't play them back from that source without tons of
stutter, so a transfer to hd is imperative.

So my view would be, internal second hard drive, export tracks to that hard
drive and put it in your computer, OR, digitally transfer the tracks on
playback to the computer, OR DVD-RAM in that order, going from fastest to
slowest respectively.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Doc Gorpon" wrote in message
...
I'm pretty sure you can't do that. I think some of the confusion comes
from
the way certain rack mount samplers can do that. The sampler is setup to
look like a SCSI device, the D2424LV and the computer SCSI card are
controllers looking for SCSI devices. Besides, I don't think SCSI is
going
to work well all the way across a house, unless it's a really small
house.

Thanks for the answers guys. However, I wanted to clarify what I think
is a
misconception about my intention.
I was hoping to get a scsi card, so that I could take the external
dvd-ram
drive (with the disc inside that has the fostex backup material) and hook
THAT
up to my computer. Somehow get the info from the backup source onto the
computer that way. Not hook the fostex directly into the computer.
I'm thinking the ethernet thing might be the way to go. But one more
question:
What if I get a dvd-ram drive, internal, on my pc? Will it be able to
read
the backup discs made from the external scsi drive? Is it possible to get
a
dvd-ram drive put into a pc these days?
And this is all assuming that there is some sort of rip available so
that my
computer can read whatever proprietary fostex files the backup disc will
be.

In article writes:

I was hoping to get a scsi card, so that I could take the external dvd-ram
drive (with the disc inside that has the fostex backup material) and hook THAT
up to my computer.

Are you asking if you can get an external DVD-RAM drive, connect it to
your Fostex SCSI port, and copy files to it? Then take the same drive,
connect it to a SCSI card (that you add to your computer) and then
copy files from that drive to the computer?

That sounds like it would work. These days, most external DVD drives
are set up for Firewire (probably an IDE drive inside the case) so it
might not be the simplest solution when it comes to finding the parts.

First, though, I'd puzzle through the Fostex manual (I know how hard
that is, I've seen some, though not that one) and maybe the buttons
and menus to see if it's actually possible to export files in WAV
format to a drive connected to the external SCSI port. I believe it
is, but be sure that you can actually do what you need to do before
you go off buying hardware.

What if I get a dvd-ram drive, internal, on my pc? Will it be able to read
the backup discs made from the external scsi drive? Is it possible to get a
dvd-ram drive put into a pc these days?

Yes, and yes. Once it's on the disk (there's an ISO format that they
all write and read) it should be able to be read by any drive capable
of reading that type of disk.

And this is all assuming that there is some sort of rip available so that my
computer can read whatever proprietary fostex files the backup disc will be.

Didn't John or somebody say that even though it stored files in its
own format, that there was a button on there that exports in the WAV
format? (see above) The Alesis HD24 works like that - it stores files
the way it likes them, and converts them to WAV or AIFF on the fly as
it spits them out the Ethernet port.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

I was hoping to get a scsi card, so that I could take the external
dvd-ram
drive (with the disc inside that has the fostex backup material) and
hook THAT
up to my computer.


edit

First, though, I'd puzzle through the Fostex manual (I know how hard
that is, I've seen some, though not that one) and maybe the buttons
and menus to see if it's actually possible to export files in WAV
format to a drive connected to the external SCSI port. I believe it
is, but be sure that you can actually do what you need to do before
you go off buying hardware.


Yes, you are correct.

Fostex D2424LV manual :
Page 93 Save/load data using SCSI
Page 99 Save/load data using onternal hard drive 2 or DVD
Page 101 Save/load WAV data

Notes about saving loading WAV files :
You have to use an MS DOS FAT 16 formated drive
The D2424LV can't format disks as MS DOS FAT 16. You'll have to format them
first on your PC.
Hard drives formatted FAT 16 are limited to one partition with a max size of
2 gigs. ( I'd assume that DVD's are also limited to 2 gigs until someone
proves different )
If you expect to import WAV files back into the D2424LV a very strict file
naming convention must be used.


And this is all assuming that there is some sort of rip available so
that my
computer can read whatever proprietary fostex files the backup disc will
be.

Didn't John or somebody say that even though it stored files in its
own format, that there was a button on there that exports in the WAV
format? (see above) The Alesis HD24 works like that - it stores files
the way it likes them, and converts them to WAV or AIFF on the fly as
it spits them out the Ethernet port.

Yup, that's the Fostex recommended way of doing it. There 'is' that third
party beta experimental ripper that 'can' take Fostex proprietary FDMS-3
format files and convert them to WAV files but, it has little or no support
so I wouldn't count on it working for any particular person. There have been
a couple reports of it working pretty good though. I haven't tried it
myself.

John L Rice

Notes about saving loading WAV files :
You have to use an MS DOS FAT 16 formated drive
The D2424LV can't format disks as MS DOS FAT 16. You'll have to format them
first on your PC.

Yes, I was thinking about this. So let's say I get the scsi adapter card for
my PC. Can I hook the external scsi dvd-ram drive to it, format it properly for
the wav files, hook up the drive to my fostex for backup in wav file format,
then come BACK to the pc with the dvd-ram drive and dump the info onto the pc?

In article writes:

Notes about saving loading WAV files :
You have to use an MS DOS FAT 16 formated drive
The D2424LV can't format disks as MS DOS FAT 16. You'll have to format them
first on your PC.
Hard drives formatted FAT 16 are limited to one partition with a max size of
2 gigs.

So you also need to know how to format a drive as FAT16, which on most
modern PCs isn't an automatic process. I can hear the echos of "My
head hurts!" The fact that you need some sort of rig to make a drive
portable between the recorder and the computer (a couple of SCSI
removable drive bays) seems like a whole lot of trouble to avoid using
a mixing console.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Doc,
Yes, you can do what you're talking about doing. In fact, I have a
Panasonic DVD-RAM drive I'd sell you cheap if you like. But you should
know that DVD-RAM as a format is pretty much dead and before too long
you won't be able to buy the drives anymore. I don't know if typical
DVD drives can read DVD-RAM discs or not. And I haven't been able to
get my DVD-RAM drive to work with a Macintosh. But on W2K it works
just fine. Not that I actually use it.

ulysses


Doc Gorpon wrote:

I'm pretty sure you can't do that. I think some of the confusion comes from
the way certain rack mount samplers can do that. The sampler is setup to
look like a SCSI device, the D2424LV and the computer SCSI card are
controllers looking for SCSI devices. Besides, I don't think SCSI is going
to work well all the way across a house, unless it's a really small house.

Thanks for the answers guys. However, I wanted to clarify what I think is a
misconception about my intention.
I was hoping to get a scsi card, so that I could take the external dvd-ram
drive (with the disc inside that has the fostex backup material) and hook THAT
up to my computer. Somehow get the info from the backup source onto the
computer that way. Not hook the fostex directly into the computer.
I'm thinking the ethernet thing might be the way to go. But one more
question:
What if I get a dvd-ram drive, internal, on my pc? Will it be able to read
the backup discs made from the external scsi drive? Is it possible to get a
dvd-ram drive put into a pc these days?
And this is all assuming that there is some sort of rip available so that my
computer can read whatever proprietary fostex files the backup disc will be.

Yes, you can do what you're talking about doing. In fact, I have a
Panasonic DVD-RAM drive I'd sell you cheap if you like.

How cheap, Jack?

Doc Gorpon wrote:

Yes, you can do what you're talking about doing. In fact, I have a
Panasonic DVD-RAM drive I'd sell you cheap if you like.

How cheap, Jack?


How much you got?

If you say more than $50 or less than $10, I won't take you seriously.


ulysses

In article writes:

Howdy. I have a Fostex D2424LV that backs up (annoyingly) to an external,
scsi, DVD-Ram drive. My computer is on the other side of the house from my
studio. If I get a scsi card, can I import the tracks into my computer?

How big is your house? I suspect that there's a practical limit of a
few feet for a SCSI cable. Does it have an Ethernet port? You can run
that several hundred feet.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

By the product literature it's a dual drive bay situation of which an
internal DVD-RAM drive could be used or an additional hard drive. Why not
use a hard drive. I don't know about the export to .wav function, but John
Rice owns one and probably will be able to give you better specifics on the
product. He's laid down some drums on some of my stuff and shipped the .wav
files out over the 'net without problems, or at least he didn't mention any.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Doc Gorpon" wrote in message
...
Howdy. I have a Fostex D2424LV that backs up (annoyingly) to an
external,
scsi, DVD-Ram drive. My computer is on the other side of the house from my
studio. If I get a scsi card, can I import the tracks into my computer?

internal DVD-RAM drive could be used or an additional hard drive. Why not
use a hard drive.

I already have the DVD drive hooked up.

He's laid down some drums on some of my stuff and shipped the .wav
files out over the 'net without problems, or at least he didn't mention any.

How did you do that John?

"Doc Gorpon" wrote in message
...
internal DVD-RAM drive could be used or an additional hard drive. Why
not
use a hard drive.

I already have the DVD drive hooked up.

He's laid down some drums on some of my stuff and shipped the .wav
files out over the 'net without problems, or at least he didn't mention
any.

How did you do that John?

Actually, for the stuff I did for Roger I was only using the converters in
the Fostex and running the lightpipes over to the MOTU 2408 to record in
Cubase in real time. My band has done a lot of recordings though where
tracks were recorded at one house on a D2424LV ( or other D series
recorder ) and then the hard drive was taken to my place and the hard drive
put in my machine, sync'd up with Cubase and the new tracks recorded in real
time via lightpipe again. We've been slowly moving to doing all PC stuff
though so the Fostex is getting less use.

John L Rice

Doc Gorpon wrote:

Howdy. I have a Fostex D2424LV that backs up (annoyingly) to an external,
scsi, DVD-Ram drive. My computer is on the other side of the house from my
studio. If I get a scsi card, can I import the tracks into my computer?

What version SCSI ? How many pins / what connector ?

The older 'flavours' were 18 feet maximum total cable length. Differential goes
further IIRC but you're unlikely to have that.


Graham

The older 'flavours' were 18 feet maximum total cable length. Differential
goes
further IIRC but you're unlikely to have that.

I would be removing the dvd drive and carrying it across my house for hookup
to my pc. So length of cable isn't an issue.

Doc Gorpon wrote:

I would be removing the dvd drive and carrying it across my house
for hookup to my pc. So length of cable isn't an issue.

Why not just have a 2nd DVD-RAM drive? One installed in your recorder,
one installed in your computer. Then you only need to carry the disk
itself across the room. You know, that's why they call it removable
media. And if you do the formatting on the Fostex, it'll probably be
easier than trying to pick the right format on the PC. I'm sure the
computer will still READ the FAT16 format, right?


ulysses

Why not just have a 2nd DVD-RAM drive? One installed in your recorder,
one installed in your computer.

I'll probably end up with that. But right now, I'm thinking cost effective.
I only have one drive at the moment.

And if you do the formatting on the Fostex, it'll probably be
easier than trying to pick the right format on the PC. I'm sure the
computer will still READ the FAT16 format, right?


ulysses

Unfortunately, while the D2424LV can read MS DOS FAT 16 drives/disks, it
doesn't have the ability to format disks as FAT 16. Which it pretty lame
along with the fact that they never moved up to a FAT 32 system so you could
effectively use disks bigger than 2 GB. I guess making that change would of
cost way to much money or something.

I just checked the Windows 2000 computer I'm currently on and I'm able to
format a ZIP disk as either FAT 16 ( just says FAT in the menu ), FAT 32 or
NTFS.

John L Rice

Doc Gorpon wrote:

The older 'flavours' were 18 feet maximum total cable length. Differential
goes
further IIRC but you're unlikely to have that.

I would be removing the dvd drive and carrying it across my house for hookup
to my pc. So length of cable isn't an issue.

Ok, check if it has a 50 pin cable going to it with a connector that looks like a
printer connector but bigger ( or a 25 pin D type ). That version of SCSI is/was
the most popular and adaptors widely available. They tend not to be that cheap
though, it's a bit of specialised market almost 'owned' by Adaptec.


Grham

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...
Doc Gorpon wrote:

The older 'flavours' were 18 feet maximum total cable length.
Differential
goes
further IIRC but you're unlikely to have that.

I would be removing the dvd drive and carrying it across my house for
hookup
to my pc. So length of cable isn't an issue.

Ok, check if it has a 50 pin cable going to it with a connector that looks
like a
printer connector but bigger ( or a 25 pin D type ). That version of SCSI
is/was
the most popular and adaptors widely available. They tend not to be that
cheap
though, it's a bit of specialised market almost 'owned' by Adaptec.


Grham


It's a 'half-pitch 50 pin' connector (from the D2424LV manual page 19 and
93).

John L Rice

John L Rice wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...
Doc Gorpon wrote:

The older 'flavours' were 18 feet maximum total cable length.
Differential
goes
further IIRC but you're unlikely to have that.

I would be removing the dvd drive and carrying it across my house for
hookup
to my pc. So length of cable isn't an issue.

Ok, check if it has a 50 pin cable going to it with a connector that looks
like a
printer connector but bigger ( or a 25 pin D type ). That version of SCSI
is/was
the most popular and adaptors widely available. They tend not to be that
cheap
though, it's a bit of specialised market almost 'owned' by Adaptec.


Grham


It's a 'half-pitch 50 pin' connector (from the D2424LV manual page 19 and
93).

Ok, that makes it pretty easy. That's the most popular, well, widely used
version of SCSI. A SCSI 2 adaptor will do nicely.

I checked some out btw. The basic ones aren't actually that expensive. Even the
entry level Adaptecs. I would recomment Adaptec btw since their documentation is
normally first class, although I used to buy bare ( OEM ) boards too, to save
money.

I'm assuming the the Drive is 'terminated' btw - i.e. it's at the end of the
lead. Otherwise you need a terminator too. The adaptor card has to have
termination enabled at its end too ( asuming you're not planning on adding any
internal SCSI devices ).

I found an Adaptec AVA-2904 here in the UK for £25 but can't see it on any US
site. It appears to be an old model maybe ? The similar AVA-2906 is $65 direct
from Adaptec -
http://www.adaptecstore.com/index.cf...ctid=1 772900

Typical - the 2904 has a 'half pitch' 50 pin connector as on your drive but the
2906 has a standard pitch 25 pin external ( like Macs used to have ). Means a
different cable. What cable do you currently have ?


Graham