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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
I have only been a lurker here for the longest time, but endless
reading here has done me better than I could ever imagine. I am considering my first "pro" level mic preamp and am leaning towards the John Hardy M-1 "personal." But before I drop a $1000 on one channel of preamp, I'd like to know where the money is really going. The Jensen transformer in the M-1 is $100, the 990 op-amp is $50. So after that $150, where is the rest of all that money_physically_ going in that preamp? Is it logical to think there is really only about $250 worth of parts inside one those? Is that about normal for all high-end mic pres? (Great River, Millennia, etc?) That being said, is there any pre where I can spend maybe, say, $500 on $250 worth of parts? Thanks-- Chris Wollard |
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#2
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
Power supplies, pots, cases, etc. ... the good ones cost.
Mr. Hardy's knowledge and attention to detail : .... PRICELESS. chris wollard writes: I have only been a lurker here for the longest time, but endless reading here has done me better than I could ever imagine. I am considering my first "pro" level mic preamp and am leaning towards the John Hardy M-1 "personal." But before I drop a $1000 on one channel of preamp, I'd like to know where the money is really going. The Jensen transformer in the M-1 is $100, the 990 op-amp is $50. So after that $150, where is the rest of all that money_physically_ going in that preamp? Is it logical to think there is really only about $250 worth of parts inside one those? Is that about normal for all high-end mic pres? (Great River, Millennia, etc?) That being said, is there any pre where I can spend maybe, say, $500 on $250 worth of parts? Thanks-- Chris Wollard |
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#3
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
chris wollard wrote:
I have only been a lurker here for the longest time, but endless reading here has done me better than I could ever imagine. I am considering my first "pro" level mic preamp and am leaning towards the John Hardy M-1 "personal." But before I drop a $1000 on one channel of preamp, I'd like to know where the money is really going. The Jensen transformer in the M-1 is $100, the 990 op-amp is $50. So after that $150, where is the rest of all that money_physically_ going in that preamp? Is it logical to think there is really only about $250 worth of parts inside one those? Is that about normal for all high-end mic pres? (Great River, Millennia, etc?) That being said, is there any pre where I can spend maybe, say, $500 on $250 worth of parts? Consider the following: What cost for a very low noise, specialized power supply? What cost for high quality external connectors? What cost for high quality internal connectors? Waht cost for internal wire & cabling which has ground noise minimized? What cost for well shielded, sturdy, rack mount case? What cost for durable, legible silk screening of front panel? What cost for high quality gain switch or pots? What cost for high quality switches for mute, reverse, phantom power, etc. What cost for signal metering? What cost for miscellaneous fasteners, metalwork, etc. What cost for assembly labor? What cost for test & alignment labor? How about the costs of running a low volume, specialized manufacturing facility? How about the costs for inventory, shipping, receiving, book keeping, building maintenance etc. How about the costs of test equipment, assembly equipment? How about paying the designer for his engineering time? Dealer margins? Anything left for some profit? I probably left some stuff out, but try and do all this for yourself and see if you can beat the prices. bobs Bob Smith BS Studios we organize chaos http://www.bsstudios.com |
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#4
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
"chris wollard" wrote in message
... I have only been a lurker here for the longest time, but endless reading here has done me better than I could ever imagine. I am considering my first "pro" level mic preamp and am leaning towards the John Hardy M-1 "personal." But before I drop a $1000 on one channel of preamp, I'd like to know where the money is really going. The Jensen transformer in the M-1 is $100, the 990 op-amp is $50. So after that $150, where is the rest of all that money_physically_ going in that preamp? Is it logical to think there is really only about $250 worth of parts inside one those? Is that about normal for all high-end mic pres? (Great River, Millennia, etc?) That being said, is there any pre where I can spend maybe, say, $500 on $250 worth of parts? Thanks-- Chris Wollard You appear not have factored in the actual preamp & the chassis and power supply yet, much less the R&D, and the labor required to assemble it, and package it. I'll leave it to others to explain the costs of manufacturing and retail pricing. What I think you should do is consider the bigger chassis that you can add three more preamps to later. Minimum increase in cost. Rick Knepper MicroComputer Support Services Knepper Audio Ft. Worth, TX 817-239-9632 413-215-1267 Fax PC Tech Support & Equipment Sales CDR Duplication & Audio Mastering Recording http://www.rknepper.com |
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#5
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
chris wollard wrote:
I have only been a lurker here for the longest time, but endless reading here has done me better than I could ever imagine. I am considering my first "pro" level mic preamp and am leaning towards the John Hardy M-1 "personal." But before I drop a $1000 on one channel of preamp, I'd like to know where the money is really going. The Jensen transformer in the M-1 is $100, the 990 op-amp is $50. So after that $150, where is the rest of all that money_physically_ going in that preamp? Is it logical to think there is really only about $250 worth of parts inside one those? Is that about normal for all high-end mic pres? (Great River, Millennia, etc?) That being said, is there any pre where I can spend maybe, say, $500 on $250 worth of parts? Thanks-- Chris Wollard These preamps are *the* bargain in high-end mic preamps, hands down. The designer is a perfectionist and entirely unmotivated by profit. They are damn near cost. The chassis and power supply is a part of the "buy-in" cost, but the system is modular, which means you can install (up to total of 4) preamp cards in the chassis for a very low price. So the initial purchase price is amortized as you buy more preamps modules for the original chassis. There's no down side. Service is excellent. The preamps' slight coloration is lovely on anything. Don't hesitate. Luke |
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#6
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
chris wollard wrote:
I have only been a lurker here for the longest time, but endless reading here has done me better than I could ever imagine. I am considering my first "pro" level mic preamp and am leaning towards the John Hardy M-1 "personal." But before I drop a $1000 on one channel of preamp, I'd like to know where the money is really going. The Jensen transformer in the M-1 is $100, the 990 op-amp is $50. So after that $150, where is the rest of all that money_physically_ going in that preamp? Is it logical to think there is really only about $250 worth of parts inside one those? Is that about normal for all high-end mic pres? (Great River, Millennia, etc?) That being said, is there any pre where I can spend maybe, say, $500 on $250 worth of parts? Consider the following: What cost for a very low noise, specialized power supply? What cost for high quality external connectors? What cost for high quality internal connectors? Waht cost for internal wire & cabling which has ground noise minimized? What cost for well shielded, sturdy, rack mount case? What cost for durable, legible silk screening of front panel? What cost for high quality gain switch or pots? What cost for high quality switches for mute, reverse, phantom power, etc. What cost for signal metering? What cost for miscellaneous fasteners, metalwork, etc. What cost for assembly labor? What cost for test & alignment labor? How about the costs of running a low volume, specialized manufacturing facility? How about the costs for inventory, shipping, receiving, book keeping, building maintenance etc. How about the costs of test equipment, assembly equipment? How about paying the designer for his engineering time? Dealer margins? Anything left for some profit? I probably left some stuff out, but try and do all this for yourself and see if you can beat the prices. bobs Bob Smith BS Studios we organize chaos http://www.bsstudios.com Bobs; You forgot one item: The cost of the time I spend answering questions in newsgroups (and e-mails, and the telephone, and at the AES conventions), including questions of why things cost as much as they do. Your list is a good one (and it does save me at least some time). If anyone thinks I'm getting rich doing this, think again. -- John Hardy The John Hardy Co. www.johnhardyco.com |
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#7
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
chris wollard wrote:
I have only been a lurker here for the longest time, but endless reading here has done me better than I could ever imagine. I am considering my first "pro" level mic preamp and am leaning towards the John Hardy M-1 "personal." But before I drop a $1000 on one channel of preamp, I'd like to know where the money is really going. The Jensen transformer in the M-1 is $100, the 990 op-amp is $50. So after that $150, where is the rest of all that money_physically_ going in that preamp? Is it logical to think there is really only about $250 worth of parts inside one those? Is that about normal for all high-end mic pres? (Great River, Millennia, etc?) That being said, is there any pre where I can spend maybe, say, $500 on $250 worth of parts? Thanks-- That is a VERY good ratio. On typical consumer gear, you can expect the parts cost to be about 1/10 the retail cost of the gear. That's about what you'll see on Mackie grade stuff. Equipment in which the parts cost is a maybe half the cost of the item (and the case fabrication, by the way, is a BIG high ticket item that you missed... also the power supply) is pretty amazing. I couldn't sell stuff that cheap, especially when it's low quantity stuff like this where you don't have hundreds of thousands of units to amortize your engineering costs. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#8
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
chris wollard wrote: That being said, is there any pre where I can spend maybe, say, $500 on $250 worth of parts? Chris, why re-invent the wheel? I have the M1 (2 channels currently) and highly recommend it. You won't find any better value in a high end pre. -Rob |
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#9
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
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#10
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
Where does all the money go when you buy a new car?
Or when buy a new sofa? Or when you buy a new custom shop guitar? Who cares as long as the price you pay gives you the highest quality and best value for what you paid? I'd be willing to bet that Mr.Hardy would be one of the first to tell you that if you can find a higher quality and better made preamp for less money, then go buy it. The only way to get a mic pre for what the parts cost alone is if you buy all the parts and put it together yourself. Many thousands of people have tried, but only a few can do this on the same level as what you can buy from John Hardy. -- AudioGaff "chris wollard" wrote in message ... I have only been a lurker here for the longest time, but endless reading here has done me better than I could ever imagine. I am considering my first "pro" level mic preamp and am leaning towards the John Hardy M-1 "personal." But before I drop a $1000 on one channel of preamp, I'd like to know where the money is really going. The Jensen transformer in the M-1 is $100, the 990 op-amp is $50. So after that $150, where is the rest of all that money_physically_ going in that preamp? Is it logical to think there is really only about $250 worth of parts inside one those? Is that about normal for all high-end mic pres? (Great River, Millennia, etc?) That being said, is there any pre where I can spend maybe, say, $500 on $250 worth of parts? Thanks-- Chris Wollard |
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#11
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
Add to this very good list things like buying food, mortgage, car
payment, insurance, rent for Hardy facility, paying employees fair wage, benefits, Hardy's half of employee SS withholding, and the list goes on... Bob Smith wrote in message ... chris wollard wrote: I have only been a lurker here for the longest time, but endless reading here has done me better than I could ever imagine. I am considering my first "pro" level mic preamp and am leaning towards the John Hardy M-1 "personal." But before I drop a $1000 on one channel of preamp, I'd like to know where the money is really going. The Jensen transformer in the M-1 is $100, the 990 op-amp is $50. So after that $150, where is the rest of all that money_physically_ going in that preamp? Is it logical to think there is really only about $250 worth of parts inside one those? Is that about normal for all high-end mic pres? (Great River, Millennia, etc?) That being said, is there any pre where I can spend maybe, say, $500 on $250 worth of parts? Consider the following: What cost for a very low noise, specialized power supply? What cost for high quality external connectors? What cost for high quality internal connectors? Waht cost for internal wire & cabling which has ground noise minimized? What cost for well shielded, sturdy, rack mount case? What cost for durable, legible silk screening of front panel? What cost for high quality gain switch or pots? What cost for high quality switches for mute, reverse, phantom power, etc. What cost for signal metering? What cost for miscellaneous fasteners, metalwork, etc. What cost for assembly labor? What cost for test & alignment labor? How about the costs of running a low volume, specialized manufacturing facility? How about the costs for inventory, shipping, receiving, book keeping, building maintenance etc. How about the costs of test equipment, assembly equipment? How about paying the designer for his engineering time? Dealer margins? Anything left for some profit? I probably left some stuff out, but try and do all this for yourself and see if you can beat the prices. bobs Bob Smith BS Studios we organize chaos http://www.bsstudios.com |
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#12
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
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#13
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
Actually he's *not* spending $250 on parts, that's just what you would spend on
them. He's paying somewhat less, because he's buying wholesale. Typically the total parts cost of a piece of audio gear is about 1/8 of the retail price. The rest is all the other stuff people have been talking about: labor costs, overhead for the factory (rent, insurance, heating, etc. etc.), shipping, taxes, and of course a little profit so the guy can eat. Probably Hardy's parts cost is a bit higher than 1/8 as he's relatively small, but that's the right order of magnitude. Like everyone else has said, it's not such a bad deal. You want a better deal, build something yourself; get the Great River boards, or do something like the preamps I've published, or find schematics on the net. It's called sweat equity, and typically you can get about $2000 worth of value for $1000 or so if you know what you're doing, and if you have more time than money. Otherwise, Hardy's preamps offer excellent value for money. Peace, Paul |
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#14
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
chris wollard wrote in message . ..
I have only been a lurker here for the longest time, but endless reading here has done me better than I could ever imagine. I am considering my first "pro" level mic preamp and am leaning towards the John Hardy M-1 "personal." But before I drop a $1000 on one channel of preamp, I'd like to know where the money is really going. The Jensen transformer in the M-1 is $100, the 990 op-amp is $50. So after that $150, where is the rest of all that money_physically_ going in that preamp? Is it logical to think there is really only about $250 worth of parts inside one those? Is that about normal for all high-end mic pres? (Great River, Millennia, etc?) That being said, is there any pre where I can spend maybe, say, $500 on $250 worth of parts? Thanks-- Chris Wollard I think you ought to take a look inside of one of these things...the build quality is incredible, it looks like the inside of a satellite, nothing out of place, all solder joints tight, parts precisely located, etc. In my day job I deal with large format (9" x 9") analog and now large format (similiar to the 9" analog in size) digital camera systems....these are built by German and Swiss companies and these things run from $600,000 for the analog ones to $1.2 - $1.6 million for the digital systems. I've looked inside of these things and I'd say the build quality of Hardy's pres is equal to or better than the PCB's and metalwork in those cameras. Other people have commented about the general costs of doing business, customer service, distribtuion, etc. One thing to keep in mind is that Hardy has been around well before it became trendy to use outboard preamps, his designs were originally meant to compete with expensive large format console preamps. He didn't jump on the preamp bandwagon after the dawn of the DAW era. Hell I remember the first time I saw an article about the M-1, I thought "why would anybody buy a separate mic pre when you already have them in a console". The guy was pretty ahead of his time if you ask me.... Analogeezer |
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#15
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
Hi,
"And unless you have need to travel around with your M-1 pre I'd suggest getting the 4 channel chassis with one pre channel installed to start. It will cost you a little more initially but in the long run as you add channels it will be a better value for you." Hi, I purchase the M1 personal and my only regret is not having spent the xtra money up front for a single pre in the 4 channel chassi as I will want to add another and it will cost me more. Carl |
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#16
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
The best way to see where the money goes is to build one yourself. I did that
several years ago, with the Jensen JT-115K-E/NE5534A circuit design and quickly found it wasn't an economical decision. It was a great learning experience. -Jay -- x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ----x x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x |
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#17
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
And in building myself , i have found that , sometimes only you know how good it is , as other people [ who have been influenced by thousands of dollars of promo / marketing ] may judge it by how it looks and that can often cost hundreds ! Regards Greg Jay Kadis wrote: The best way to see where the money goes is to build one yourself. I did that several years ago, with the Jensen JT-115K-E/NE5534A circuit design and quickly found it wasn't an economical decision. It was a great learning experience. -Jay -- x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ----x x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x |
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#18
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
John Hardy M-1 "personal." But before I drop a $1000 on one channel
of preamp, I'd like to know where the money is really going. The Jensen transformer in the M-1 is $100, the 990 op-amp is $50. So after that $150, where is the rest of all that money_physically_ going Also note that Hardy preamps use *two* Jensen transformers - one input and one output - and as you've already discovered, Jensen transformers are *expensive.* I build my own preamps and I can tell you from experience, you won't save any money building them yourself - especially if you're just building a single channel. My first successful preamp channel cost almost twice what a JH channel costs plus about 200 man hours.  It's worth it, and it's fun. I highly recommend preamp building to anyone with soldering skills (and a keen interest in masochism.) But don't do it to save money. After buying all the required tools, knobs, wires, connectors, chassis, etching chemicals, etc and spending weeks troubleshooting faulty circuits, you'll come to realize just what a bargain Hardy preamps are. (Also, John is saving you at least 25% by selling them direct.) Enjoy your new JH! You'll soon discover, one channel is never enough... |
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#19
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
and of course a little profit so the guy can eat.
That would be part of overhead. Profit would be making overhead and having money left over. --------------------------------------- "I know enough to know I don't know enough" |
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#20
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
chris wollard wrote:
I have only been a lurker here for the longest time, but endless reading here has done me better than I could ever imagine. I am considering my first "pro" level mic preamp and am leaning towards the John Hardy M-1 "personal." But before I drop a $1000 on one channel of preamp, I'd like to know where the money is really going. The Jensen transformer in the M-1 is $100, the 990 op-amp is $50. So after that $150, where is the rest of all that money_physically_ going in that preamp? Is it logical to think there is really only about $250 worth of parts inside one those? Is that about normal for all high-end mic pres? (Great River, Millennia, etc?) That being said, is there any pre where I can spend maybe, say, $500 on $250 worth of parts? Parts is parts, with good parts being more costly. What you are actually buying is the applied intelligence of the designer. In Mr. Hardy's case that would mean you are purchasing the effects of Wisdom. -- ha |
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#21
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
Analogeezer wrote:
Hell I remember the first time I saw an article about the M-1, I thought "why would anybody buy a separate mic pre when you already have them in a console". The guy was pretty ahead of his time if you ask me... Hell, John's still a head of his time. -- ha |
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#22
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
"Kato Jenkina" wrote in message om... John Hardy M-1 "personal." But before I drop a $1000 on one channel of preamp, I'd like to know where the money is really going. The Jensen transformer in the M-1 is $100, the 990 op-amp is $50. So after that $150, where is the rest of all that money_physically_ going Also note that Hardy preamps use *two* Jensen transformers - one input and one output - and as you've already discovered, Jensen transformers are *expensive.* Actually the output transformer is optional so someone could get an M-1 without the output transformers and save over $100 per channel. I got mine with all the options though. :-) John L Rice |
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#23
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
"EggHd" wrote in message ... and of course a little profit so the guy can eat. That would be part of overhead. Profit would be making overhead and having money left over. Not in my neck of the woods. "Overhead" is other people's salaries; "profit" is my salary. John |
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#24
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
My heartfelt thanks to everyone who had such generous
compliments about my products. I am grateful. I would say more, but I have to go fix the wave solder machine again. Add that to the list. Thank you. -- John Hardy The John Hardy Co. www.johnhardyco.com |
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#25
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
chris wollard wrote:
I have only been a lurker here for the longest time, but endless reading here has done me better than I could ever imagine. I am considering my first "pro" level mic preamp and am leaning towards the John Hardy M-1 "personal." But before I drop a $1000 on one channel of preamp, I'd like to know where the money is really going. The Jensen transformer in the M-1 is $100, the 990 op-amp is $50. So after that $150, where is the rest of all that money_physically_ going in that preamp? Is it logical to think there is really only about $250 worth of parts inside one those? Is that about normal for all high-end mic pres? (Great River, Millennia, etc?) That being said, is there any pre where I can spend maybe, say, $500 on $250 worth of parts? Thanks-- I think (John, please correct me if I am wrong) you can actually just buy the cards yourself---with the circuitry of one channel including the 990 for a pretty reasonable price. And then if you want to try to save money, you can attempt to put it together yourself. You still have to get hold of the input transformer and build a power supply. You can always find some piece of garbage like a used ART compressor remove the guts and attempt to build M-1 preamps into it. This way you already have the chassis and connectors. You might even be able to cannibalize part of the power supply. Of course, it likely won't be as good, unless you are very good at building a proper power supply. Plus, forget about installing the meters. I think Great River also sells just their preamp cards. I always thought that this could be a neat type of project for someone who had some rack gear with a really good PS built into it that had similar specs to what the M-1 or Great River needs. Okay John, now tell me why I am wrong. Rob R. |
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#26
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
Rob;
I think (John, please correct me if I am wrong) you can actually just buy the cards yourself---with the circuitry of one channel including the 990 for a pretty reasonable price. And then if you want to try to save money, you can attempt to put it together yourself. You still have to get hold of the input transformer and build a power supply. You can always find some piece of garbage like a used ART compressor remove the guts and attempt to build M-1 preamps into it. This way you already have the chassis and connectors. You might even be able to cannibalize part of the power supply. Of course, it likely won't be as good, unless you are very good at building a proper power supply. Plus, forget about installing the meters. I think Great River also sells just their preamp cards. I always thought that this could be a neat type of project for someone who had some rack gear with a really good PS built into it that had similar specs to what the M-1 or Great River needs. Okay John, now tell me why I am wrong. I think this would be much more trouble than it would be worth. Yes, you can get one or more basic channels of the mic preamp cards, either the MPC-1 (for the M-1) or the MPC-500C (for MCI 500C consoles), MPC-600 (for MCI 600 consoles) or MPC-3000 (for Sony MXP-3000 consoles) and put them into some type of cannibalized box. But the power supplies would be wrong, etc. Prior to the introduction of the M-1 in 1987, quite a few people bought MPC-500C or MPC-600 cards and built there own boxes and supplies - whatever it took to end up with a superior outboard mic preamp. But the mainframe for the M-1 is only $525, and all the details are completely worked out. I know there is always the personal satisfaction of doing something yourself, but at $525, why bother? Life is short. Just buy the frame (and mic preamp cards) and get on with it. Thanks. -- John Hardy The John Hardy Co. www.johnhardyco.com |
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#27
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
I meant to say "built THEIR own..." (not "there" own).
-- John Hardy The John Hardy Co. www.johnhardyco.com |
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#28
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
They the same to me.
John Hardy wrote: I meant to say "built THEIR own..." (not "there" own). |
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#29
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
"John Hardy" wrote in message
news:7P%sb.145476$275.449353@attbi_s53... My heartfelt thanks to everyone who had such generous compliments about my products. I am grateful. I would say more, but I have to go fix the wave solder machine again. Add that to the list. Thank you. When you're finished that can you come over and fix my dishwasher. Something about hearing arcing and then the machine stopped! g But I'll throw my compliments to John's products, too. First thing that showed me what an excellent mic pre was, and continues to show me that it's a fine piece of equipment as others continue to come out and play catchup. Alas, I'm still looking forward to a two channel purchase. Sorry about that John. One of these days! g -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net. See how far $20 really goes. -- John Hardy The John Hardy Co. www.johnhardyco.com |
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#30
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
"John LeBlanc" wrote in message
... Not in my neck of the woods. "Overhead" is other people's salaries; "profit" is my salary. You know better than that. As an employer, if you have other salaries to worry about, you still either pay yourself a set fee (i.e. you're an employee of the corporation) or you get whatever's left over, so in the latter scenario, there's never any profit, just a different lifestyle! g -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net. See how far $20 really goes. |
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#31
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
"P Stamler" wrote in message ... Typically the total parts cost of a piece of audio gear is about 1/8 of the retail price. The rest is all the other stuff people have been talking about: labor costs, overhead for the factory (rent, insurance, heating, etc. etc.), shipping, taxes, and of course a little profit so the guy can eat. Probably Hardy's parts cost is a bit higher than 1/8 as he's relatively small, but that's the right order of magnitude. One thing you have to admit, John makes quality for less because he's not spending major amounts of marketing money and developing a large network of distribution because that starts to eat into profit on his end. But the neat thing is that after all this time, John's still making a quality product that simply is one of the elite, and not a contender, and that he still does it for quite a bit less than the top echelon pay for their mic pre channels. Of course, that doesn't mean that one shouldn't have a number of pres available so that certain sounds can be achieved and that's just all part of being an engineer who has the knowledge to select rather than just use. But again, for the price there's absolutely no better product out there. When talking about hearing exactly what's being produced, I give it both thumbs and both big toes up! g -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net. See how far $20 really goes. Actually he's *not* spending $250 on parts, that's just what you would spend on them. He's paying somewhat less, because he's buying wholesale. Like everyone else has said, it's not such a bad deal. You want a better deal, build something yourself; get the Great River boards, or do something like the preamps I've published, or find schematics on the net. It's called sweat equity, and typically you can get about $2000 worth of value for $1000 or so if you know what you're doing, and if you have more time than money. Otherwise, Hardy's preamps offer excellent value for money. Peace, Paul |
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
"EggHd" wrote in message
... That would be part of overhead. Profit would be making overhead and having money left over. How about in a limited partnership when the only thing is drawing from profit, thus generally leaving no profit. You're too used to the corporate environment, although I'm not saying you're wrong. Just different circumstances. A corporation pays each employee while a limited partnership can easily be drawing from profit to offset investment without tax penalties. You'd get hit at the end of the year, but it's not even a quarterly estimate payment. Were I to have done what my tax accountant told me, I'd probably still be swimming in a little money, but I wouldn't take money from company profit to pay for my wife's or my vehicle travel, lease expenses, (after all, I would be leasing the vehicle to the company and it would pay me to do so), office space, etc. Even now my studio has exceeded one third of my living space, what with equipment storage and location recording equipment. Not to mention phone, computer access, trade mags, and other things that could/should be technically picked up by the company in a limited partnership. However, no matter what way you want to do it, business math says that Assets - Liabilities = Profit. No matter what one does after the fact or even before changes that. Of course, for anyone that wants me to, for a small price, I'll produce my categories for both Assets and Liabilities which may help someone if they don't know the difference or how to do business accounting. But you have to be committed to want to do it. I've run multi-million dollar businesses before as the retail director, and opened some 26 different stores with 5 different companies. The only reason I bring this up is that it's darned expensive to buy studio accounting type software, but a few simple pages in Excel or some other spreadsheet can do a lot for a good basic system of accounts. Plug in the figures and it's a nice database to have for tax purposes. I'm not talking about an entire studio based system here, with equipment amoritization and other tax related offsets, I'm just talking about the hows and whys of doing a basic system of accounts, charges, payments, summations, etc., from a couple of basic entry pages. So if anybody wants to ask some questions, you know where to find me. -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net. See how far $20 really goes. --------------------------------------- "I know enough to know I don't know enough" |
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Price of John Hardy Mic Pre's
John Hardy wrote in message news:Rl9tb.151565$ao4.483149@attbi_s51...
I meant to say "built THEIR own..." (not "there" own). I've read through this whole thread and found that most of the talk is about parts/buisiness costs and not much emphasis on circuit design or just design in general. Buying a Jensen transformer and a good op amp and throwing it in a box doesn't make a great sounding preamp. It takes a lot of time, research, and experimentation to come up with a great electronic circuit for musical purposes. This market of esoteric music equiptment is tough to design for. People want things to sound "big" and "harmonically complex" and have "air". These things are not easily quantified like it is in other electronic markets. It takes a lot of work to design a circuit that is musical without copying an existing design. A lot of what makes a circuit sound musical isn't even clearly understood; ie. extending the frequency response past 20k, it's pretty theoretical. And the rewards are so little that you would have to be either crazy or just very passionate about what you do to pursue a career in high-end musical electronics. There's simple market economics as well. If it's generally agreed that #1 preamp sounds better than #2 preamp, then #1 preamp is more dear, and worth more. Factor in forces of supply and demand. Neve modules go up in value as Studer tape machines lose value. Factor in volume. It should be obvious that John Hardy sells less volume than Peavey or Behringer and as a result John Hardy requires less materials and pays more for those materials. In the big picture this is no different than any other market. Even if John Hardy was getting rich making preamps, what would be wrong with that? Brendan Flaherty |
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