I don't really consider myself anywhere near the pro level, but since
there isn't a more appropriate group, I'm asking you guys to take pity
on a poor college student and help me decide what I would need to
record onto my computer.

I'm a computer engineering student, so I can handle setting up pretty
complex software/hardware combinations and changing things if
necessary

my current setup:

dual 2ghz G5 (I do UNIX programming and graphics/video, I can't really
replace often to this fulfills everything I need and I can upgrade it
for at least 5 years)
512 ram (more will be added later)
optical in/out
analog in/out (not the greatest quality, whatever is on board)
firewire 400/800
usb 2
pci+ or whatever the new thing is.. spoecial to G5s

I went to guitar center (just moved to a new location.. wasn't sure
where else to go to) and I think he might have been trying to rip me
off (not really that suprising)

my needs:
record an acoustic guitar or from an amp
I don't really forsee using multiple channels in the near future. If
I ever did want to play with someone else on a track we could record
it sperately, and considering that I am living in a single room right
now, I'm not sure that one could record two people without it sounding
like crap anyways.

They guy thought I should buy:
a 4 channel USB interface
mic preamp
condensor mic
all for about 500$

I'm wondering if it would be possible to get a preamp with a good a/d
to usb or firewire or if there are any economical ways of using the
optical port or perhaps a good pci card that I could use an analog
preamp with.

I'm not cheap, but right now I'm between jobs (it is bloody hard to
find decent work, thanks bush) so I would like to keep the cost down.
right now I have nothing but the computer for recording, so I need
advice on everything. I would like to keep it sub 200, but perhaps
sub 300 is more reasonable? I can go up to 500 if I really need to,
but I would prefer not to.

For software, I am trying to get ardour to install, but it is being a
pain (not meant for OSX and I am still learning how to program on it
too) and as of now i can't even get jack to install because it wants
to use apples libtool instead of the gnu one. any recomendations i I
cannot get this to work? (if Linux is released for the G5, which
should happen pretty soon I'll be able to get ardour for that, but it
would be nice to have something osx native. are there any tools that
have great student discounts?

I was talking to someone who records a bit who said that I should
definitely get a dynamic mic, because they are cheaper for the quality
of sound and work fine when there isn't a whole lot of background
noice. the gc guy seemed to really recommend a condensor.. perhaps it
gave a high commision? he didn't really go into reasons and he didn't
know anything about Macs, so I'm kinda worried about his advice.

It would also be nice if there were a way to do this in stages. I
prefer to buy equipment one piece at a time and get good stuff rather
than go for a whole setup of crap. Would it work to just get a mic
and pramp and run it through the onboard a/d or would this be
worthless? I'm jsut thinking that perhaps I could get a goot mic and
preamp and then when I have more money add a firewire interface or
something. I am also worried about USB for latency issues, but
perhaps these are in the past with USB2?

Thanks

Wow where to begin. Ok. Well you're going to want a mic that plays
with everything.

Scenario 1)
The Shure SM57 is a pretty good mic for about 90 dollars. They can be
had online (ebay) maybe 70 dollars but with shipping you're pretty
close to getting a new one anyway. So i guess we're half way out of
money you can get a Behringer 4 channel mixing board for on close
out for 99 dollars or maybe some cheapy mic pre. I think ART makes one
for 99 bucks. Misc cords etc. and you're under the 200 dollar mark if
you can get software for free by using the linux whatever you call it
program. Never heard of it anyway. Then just using the on board A/D
converts which you CAN use but they're less than ideal. When i first
started i used them on my Apple 6500/180 It didn't matter to us at the
time because we just turned the amp up to 11 and it was rock n roll.
We got some ok recordings. They were noisy tho.
Senario 2)
You use the onboard optical port on the G5. I don't know what program
other than Logic is going to support this. I know that someone
approved the G5 for *nix today. I doubt this means it's going to see
the optical port just yet. Anyway lets say you have logic which is
about 270. You can't hack it and it's well worth the money anyway.
You'll need the A/D converters and also a preamp and the Shure SM57.
So thats probably not a good option as you'd be in the 700 dollar mark
very quickly.
Scenario 3)
Check out the digidesign Mbox. Currently it's not supported on the
G5's but the software should be out this month so if you can wait a
few weeks... It's a good setup using industry standard software and
hardware. There is an upgrade path if you find you need more and it's
a software and hardware package. It's USB 1.1 you say that you don't
want to use USB but i had the Mbox for a while and there were no
problems on my machines. The A/D/A's are pretty good. Not great but
they work nicely and they have very reasonable preamps. Far better
than using a Behringer mixer. So you get that and the SM57 and you're
pretty well off however you'll be at 500. And i mean AT 500. There are
other packages but to me this is the best you're going to get if
you're just starting in on digital recording.

garrett

(Dobbie) wrote in message om...
I don't really consider myself anywhere near the pro level, but since
there isn't a more appropriate group, I'm asking you guys to take pity
on a poor college student and help me decide what I would need to
record onto my computer.

I'm a computer engineering student, so I can handle setting up pretty
complex software/hardware combinations and changing things if
necessary

my current setup:

dual 2ghz G5 (I do UNIX programming and graphics/video, I can't really
replace often to this fulfills everything I need and I can upgrade it
for at least 5 years)
512 ram (more will be added later)
optical in/out
analog in/out (not the greatest quality, whatever is on board)
firewire 400/800
usb 2
pci+ or whatever the new thing is.. spoecial to G5s

I went to guitar center (just moved to a new location.. wasn't sure
where else to go to) and I think he might have been trying to rip me
off (not really that suprising)

my needs:
record an acoustic guitar or from an amp
I don't really forsee using multiple channels in the near future. If
I ever did want to play with someone else on a track we could record
it sperately, and considering that I am living in a single room right
now, I'm not sure that one could record two people without it sounding
like crap anyways.

They guy thought I should buy:
a 4 channel USB interface
mic preamp
condensor mic
all for about 500$

I'm wondering if it would be possible to get a preamp with a good a/d
to usb or firewire or if there are any economical ways of using the
optical port or perhaps a good pci card that I could use an analog
preamp with.

I'm not cheap, but right now I'm between jobs (it is bloody hard to
find decent work, thanks bush) so I would like to keep the cost down.
right now I have nothing but the computer for recording, so I need
advice on everything. I would like to keep it sub 200, but perhaps
sub 300 is more reasonable? I can go up to 500 if I really need to,
but I would prefer not to.

For software, I am trying to get ardour to install, but it is being a
pain (not meant for OSX and I am still learning how to program on it
too) and as of now i can't even get jack to install because it wants
to use apples libtool instead of the gnu one. any recomendations i I
cannot get this to work? (if Linux is released for the G5, which
should happen pretty soon I'll be able to get ardour for that, but it
would be nice to have something osx native. are there any tools that
have great student discounts?

I was talking to someone who records a bit who said that I should
definitely get a dynamic mic, because they are cheaper for the quality
of sound and work fine when there isn't a whole lot of background
noice. the gc guy seemed to really recommend a condensor.. perhaps it
gave a high commision? he didn't really go into reasons and he didn't
know anything about Macs, so I'm kinda worried about his advice.

It would also be nice if there were a way to do this in stages. I
prefer to buy equipment one piece at a time and get good stuff rather
than go for a whole setup of crap. Would it work to just get a mic
and pramp and run it through the onboard a/d or would this be
worthless? I'm jsut thinking that perhaps I could get a goot mic and
preamp and then when I have more money add a firewire interface or
something. I am also worried about USB for latency issues, but
perhaps these are in the past with USB2?

Thanks

First of all, you're welcom at rec.audio.pro as long as you are
interested in RECreational AUDIO PROduction.

Next, go buy these three microphones, or at least two of them: MXL V57M
($49 at Musician's Friend right now); Oktava MC012 ($99 at Guitar
Center, sometimes 2 for $99); and a Shure SM57. Call these your
Starter Kit. They are all very good values and will show you what
their "type" of microphone basically does. There are, of course,
better micropones out there.

Next, you should buy a computer interface that has built-in microphone
preamps. I'm not going to recommend any particular model because I
haven't used any of them. But the only way you're going to fit your
budget is if the interface has built-in mic preamps. They won't be
very good preamps, but at your budget level you cannot buy good mic
preamps. This approach will allow you to upgrade the preamp later
when/if you want/need to and can afford it. There is NOT a worthwhile
mic preamp that you can buy for under $500 and still have enough money
left over to buy even the crappiest microphone, computer audio
interface, and software. And the built-in analog hardware on the G5 is
certainly going to be as crummy as the built-in analog audio hardware
on every other computer ever built with onboard audio. The onboard
optical is something I'd be surprised to see support for at this point
in time. Look for a USB, Firewire, or PCI system that not only has
built-in mic preamps, but also has line-level inputs, digital I/O, and
comes with some kind of basic software (in case you can't afford any
better software for a while).

Compatibility: Beware of incompatibility between the G5's PCI-X slots
and any old-fashion PCI cards. I know nothing about this, but I know
enough to know you need to be aware. Secondly, you need to figure out
what software you'll ultimately end up using BEFORE you buy the
hardware because you will kick yourself when you find out the interface
you already bought is incompatible with the software you decide you
want.

You can expect all of these variables to get better and better as time
marches on, so keep an eye toward upgrades.


ulysses

In article , Dobbie
wrote:

I don't really consider myself anywhere near the pro level, but since
there isn't a more appropriate group, I'm asking you guys to take pity
on a poor college student and help me decide what I would need to
record onto my computer.

I'm a computer engineering student, so I can handle setting up pretty
complex software/hardware combinations and changing things if
necessary

my current setup:

dual 2ghz G5 (I do UNIX programming and graphics/video, I can't really
replace often to this fulfills everything I need and I can upgrade it
for at least 5 years)
512 ram (more will be added later)
optical in/out
analog in/out (not the greatest quality, whatever is on board)
firewire 400/800
usb 2
pci+ or whatever the new thing is.. spoecial to G5s

I went to guitar center (just moved to a new location.. wasn't sure
where else to go to) and I think he might have been trying to rip me
off (not really that suprising)

my needs:
record an acoustic guitar or from an amp
I don't really forsee using multiple channels in the near future. If
I ever did want to play with someone else on a track we could record
it sperately, and considering that I am living in a single room right
now, I'm not sure that one could record two people without it sounding
like crap anyways.

They guy thought I should buy:
a 4 channel USB interface
mic preamp
condensor mic
all for about 500$

I'm wondering if it would be possible to get a preamp with a good a/d
to usb or firewire or if there are any economical ways of using the
optical port or perhaps a good pci card that I could use an analog
preamp with.

I'm not cheap, but right now I'm between jobs (it is bloody hard to
find decent work, thanks bush) so I would like to keep the cost down.
right now I have nothing but the computer for recording, so I need
advice on everything. I would like to keep it sub 200, but perhaps
sub 300 is more reasonable? I can go up to 500 if I really need to,
but I would prefer not to.

For software, I am trying to get ardour to install, but it is being a
pain (not meant for OSX and I am still learning how to program on it
too) and as of now i can't even get jack to install because it wants
to use apples libtool instead of the gnu one. any recomendations i I
cannot get this to work? (if Linux is released for the G5, which
should happen pretty soon I'll be able to get ardour for that, but it
would be nice to have something osx native. are there any tools that
have great student discounts?

I was talking to someone who records a bit who said that I should
definitely get a dynamic mic, because they are cheaper for the quality
of sound and work fine when there isn't a whole lot of background
noice. the gc guy seemed to really recommend a condensor.. perhaps it
gave a high commision? he didn't really go into reasons and he didn't
know anything about Macs, so I'm kinda worried about his advice.

It would also be nice if there were a way to do this in stages. I
prefer to buy equipment one piece at a time and get good stuff rather
than go for a whole setup of crap. Would it work to just get a mic
and pramp and run it through the onboard a/d or would this be
worthless? I'm jsut thinking that perhaps I could get a goot mic and
preamp and then when I have more money add a firewire interface or
something. I am also worried about USB for latency issues, but
perhaps these are in the past with USB2?

Thanks

Thank you both for your advice. I think that I'll hold off until I
can find a job and thus have some idea of whether I can put 1500 in
initially rather than 2-500. This will also give the market a bit of
time to adapt to the new architecture. Later on I hope to be
building/upgrading much of my audio hardware, but I haven't really the
time not expertise to do it now. (What else am I going to do with an
engineering degree?) There doesn't seem to be much support for pci-x
for under 1000 and a lot of the interfaces have not been upgraded to
work with either Panther or the G5. Gentoo Linux has been ported to
the G5, so when either they or YDL can fix the cooling issues (the
fans being on constantly is probably not a good idea for recording)
I'll install Adour and try to learn it. I've done a bit of A/V
editing in FCP, adobe's stuff, etc so I'm hoping that the transistion
to pure audio won't be too difficult. Adour seems to support most
cards and configurations, but I'll make sure to check out whatever I
intend to buy before hand. I'm especially attracted to the ability to
change things in the program and interface that I don't like (I wish
Photoshop and FCP had that option, but the Gimp just doesn't cut it)

Do you think that the manufacturers will have put out updated things
by January? I'm willing to be patient in order to get the capital I
need and for the items to be available.

What would you guys think about this as a beginning setup? (or
something similar)
I think that the DIGI96 can be had for about 300 (list 4-500 but
browsing around I saw it for 275), I'll install linux once the fan
issues are resolved and run http://ardour.sourceforge.net/ . The ALSA
page says that they hae drivers, so there shouldn't be any issues
there. I'm guessing that you can't mic straight into it, so I'm
thinking 250 for that. The Shure SM57 seems very highley recomended,
and perhaps another mic, figuring 100 each. That's 750, but it looks
like I should wait for a lot oof the companies to work out G5 issues
anyways, and in a few months I shouldn't have any problem with the
price. It seems that everyone I've talked to has pushed in to get
decent mics and not to use the stock audio. People seem to be big
fans of interfaces and I'm curious about this.. what is so good about
them? with adour I can get latencies down to 1.5ns or something (I
forget the exact value, but it was pretty small, smaller than most
interfaces I looked at the specs of) and I can keep adding soundcards.
I'm a big fan of expandability, but I don't have experience with
higher end audio hardware (well, at least compared to what most people
use), so I'm wondering why people go for interfaces. The main
advantages that I can see for going a card solution is that I can add
more and I would imagine that I'm getting a better audio from a 300
card compared to a 300 interface (aren't they basically cards with a
bunch of other stuff thrown in?) I tend to research for a long time,
pick a budget I think I can meet, research some more and then go out
and buy it all on a whim some saturday morning. Thanks again


(Dobbie) wrote in message om...
I don't really consider myself anywhere near the pro level, but since
there isn't a more appropriate group, I'm asking you guys to take pity
on a poor college student and help me decide what I would need to
record onto my computer.

I'm a computer engineering student, so I can handle setting up pretty
complex software/hardware combinations and changing things if
necessary

my current setup:

dual 2ghz G5 (I do UNIX programming and graphics/video, I can't really
replace often to this fulfills everything I need and I can upgrade it
for at least 5 years)
512 ram (more will be added later)
optical in/out
analog in/out (not the greatest quality, whatever is on board)
firewire 400/800
usb 2
pci+ or whatever the new thing is.. spoecial to G5s

I went to guitar center (just moved to a new location.. wasn't sure
where else to go to) and I think he might have been trying to rip me
off (not really that suprising)

my needs:
record an acoustic guitar or from an amp
I don't really forsee using multiple channels in the near future. If
I ever did want to play with someone else on a track we could record
it sperately, and considering that I am living in a single room right
now, I'm not sure that one could record two people without it sounding
like crap anyways.

They guy thought I should buy:
a 4 channel USB interface
mic preamp
condensor mic
all for about 500$

I'm wondering if it would be possible to get a preamp with a good a/d
to usb or firewire or if there are any economical ways of using the
optical port or perhaps a good pci card that I could use an analog
preamp with.

I'm not cheap, but right now I'm between jobs (it is bloody hard to
find decent work, thanks bush) so I would like to keep the cost down.
right now I have nothing but the computer for recording, so I need
advice on everything. I would like to keep it sub 200, but perhaps
sub 300 is more reasonable? I can go up to 500 if I really need to,
but I would prefer not to.

For software, I am trying to get ardour to install, but it is being a
pain (not meant for OSX and I am still learning how to program on it
too) and as of now i can't even get jack to install because it wants
to use apples libtool instead of the gnu one. any recomendations i I
cannot get this to work? (if Linux is released for the G5, which
should happen pretty soon I'll be able to get ardour for that, but it
would be nice to have something osx native. are there any tools that
have great student discounts?

I was talking to someone who records a bit who said that I should
definitely get a dynamic mic, because they are cheaper for the quality
of sound and work fine when there isn't a whole lot of background
noice. the gc guy seemed to really recommend a condensor.. perhaps it
gave a high commision? he didn't really go into reasons and he didn't
know anything about Macs, so I'm kinda worried about his advice.

It would also be nice if there were a way to do this in stages. I
prefer to buy equipment one piece at a time and get good stuff rather
than go for a whole setup of crap. Would it work to just get a mic
and pramp and run it through the onboard a/d or would this be
worthless? I'm jsut thinking that perhaps I could get a goot mic and
preamp and then when I have more money add a firewire interface or
something. I am also worried about USB for latency issues, but
perhaps these are in the past with USB2?

Thanks

Look at the MXL V67B mic (this is cheap and a bit better than the V57)
and the Tascam US 122 USB device. These two things will get you
recording for cheap. Listening to what you have recorded is a whole
nother ballgame, but get a decent pair of headphones and run out to
your car to check your mixes.

d


(Dobbie) wrote in message . com...
What would you guys think about this as a beginning setup? (or
something similar)
I think that the DIGI96 can be had for about 300 (list 4-500 but
browsing around I saw it for 275), I'll install linux once the fan
issues are resolved and run http://ardour.sourceforge.net/ . The ALSA
page says that they hae drivers, so there shouldn't be any issues
there. I'm guessing that you can't mic straight into it, so I'm
thinking 250 for that. The Shure SM57 seems very highley recomended,
and perhaps another mic, figuring 100 each. That's 750, but it looks
like I should wait for a lot oof the companies to work out G5 issues
anyways, and in a few months I shouldn't have any problem with the
price. It seems that everyone I've talked to has pushed in to get
decent mics and not to use the stock audio. People seem to be big
fans of interfaces and I'm curious about this.. what is so good about
them? with adour I can get latencies down to 1.5ns or something (I
forget the exact value, but it was pretty small, smaller than most
interfaces I looked at the specs of) and I can keep adding soundcards.
I'm a big fan of expandability, but I don't have experience with
higher end audio hardware (well, at least compared to what most people
use), so I'm wondering why people go for interfaces. The main
advantages that I can see for going a card solution is that I can add
more and I would imagine that I'm getting a better audio from a 300
card compared to a 300 interface (aren't they basically cards with a
bunch of other stuff thrown in?) I tend to research for a long time,
pick a budget I think I can meet, research some more and then go out
and buy it all on a whim some saturday morning. Thanks again


(Dobbie) wrote in message om...
I don't really consider myself anywhere near the pro level, but since
there isn't a more appropriate group, I'm asking you guys to take pity
on a poor college student and help me decide what I would need to
record onto my computer.

I'm a computer engineering student, so I can handle setting up pretty
complex software/hardware combinations and changing things if
necessary

my current setup:

dual 2ghz G5 (I do UNIX programming and graphics/video, I can't really
replace often to this fulfills everything I need and I can upgrade it
for at least 5 years)
512 ram (more will be added later)
optical in/out
analog in/out (not the greatest quality, whatever is on board)
firewire 400/800
usb 2
pci+ or whatever the new thing is.. spoecial to G5s

I went to guitar center (just moved to a new location.. wasn't sure
where else to go to) and I think he might have been trying to rip me
off (not really that suprising)

my needs:
record an acoustic guitar or from an amp
I don't really forsee using multiple channels in the near future. If
I ever did want to play with someone else on a track we could record
it sperately, and considering that I am living in a single room right
now, I'm not sure that one could record two people without it sounding
like crap anyways.

They guy thought I should buy:
a 4 channel USB interface
mic preamp
condensor mic
all for about 500$

I'm wondering if it would be possible to get a preamp with a good a/d
to usb or firewire or if there are any economical ways of using the
optical port or perhaps a good pci card that I could use an analog
preamp with.

I'm not cheap, but right now I'm between jobs (it is bloody hard to
find decent work, thanks bush) so I would like to keep the cost down.
right now I have nothing but the computer for recording, so I need
advice on everything. I would like to keep it sub 200, but perhaps
sub 300 is more reasonable? I can go up to 500 if I really need to,
but I would prefer not to.

For software, I am trying to get ardour to install, but it is being a
pain (not meant for OSX and I am still learning how to program on it
too) and as of now i can't even get jack to install because it wants
to use apples libtool instead of the gnu one. any recomendations i I
cannot get this to work? (if Linux is released for the G5, which
should happen pretty soon I'll be able to get ardour for that, but it
would be nice to have something osx native. are there any tools that
have great student discounts?

I was talking to someone who records a bit who said that I should
definitely get a dynamic mic, because they are cheaper for the quality
of sound and work fine when there isn't a whole lot of background
noice. the gc guy seemed to really recommend a condensor.. perhaps it
gave a high commision? he didn't really go into reasons and he didn't
know anything about Macs, so I'm kinda worried about his advice.

It would also be nice if there were a way to do this in stages. I
prefer to buy equipment one piece at a time and get good stuff rather
than go for a whole setup of crap. Would it work to just get a mic
and pramp and run it through the onboard a/d or would this be
worthless? I'm jsut thinking that perhaps I could get a goot mic and
preamp and then when I have more money add a firewire interface or
something. I am also worried about USB for latency issues, but
perhaps these are in the past with USB2?

Thanks