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The sound of AKG C-414 B-ULS
Hello there,
After some serious lurking, there are some questions that have been in my mind for some time... I have AKG C-414 B-ULS mic, which I've been using for recording almost everything through my Mackie 1202 VLZ mixer. But often for some more uptempo, rockish material my SM-57 has seemed to suite my voice better. I have a kind of muddy (some would say soft) voice, not a rock voice at all, although that's what I seem to sing with it It just seems that it benefits from Shure's presence and straightforward treble end. Then again, I don't think SM-57 works too well on slow songs, which would demand more accuracy, softness and details from the mic. Yesterday I made some tests, recording my singing with both mics on my Mackie 1202 VLZ mixer, and compared the results. I truly find the AKG to sound a little flat with my voice. The sound doesn't have much treble or punch, it's a little boomy and even bassy compared to SM-57. Which to me seems strange, since 414 is supposed to be suitable for various recording purposes, and it's supposed to be more sensitive (which in theory would be a quality which would suit my voice better). I tested with & without 75hz bass cut and various polar patterns, and distances (proximity effect) with my 414 with similar results. So my questions are as follows: 1. Has any of you have had experiences with recording male vocal with C414 B-ULS with similar results (the voice not coming out with enough treble or presence) 2. Do you use 414's bass cut options with male voices? 75 or 150 hz? 3. Is my main problem my Mackie (hiding some main character that the 414 has?), and could it be solved with a better mic preamp? 4. Do you have any suggestions as what could be a good vocal mic (within the $100-500 price range) for my type of (soft, deep, not very powerful) voice. Unfortunately my town has a very poor selection of mics so I cannot really try out too many, otherwise I would of course take a listen to them. Any advice & opinions would be appreciated! Thanks Kalle |
#3
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The sound of AKG C-414 B-ULS
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#4
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The sound of AKG C-414 B-ULS
1. Has any of you have had experiences with recording male vocal with
C414 B-ULS with similar results (the voice not coming out with enough treble or presence) Yes. The proximity of the 414B-ULS is something I find very unnattractive, & causes a very woolly response in the 150Hz region. Some male vocals sound fantastic on this mic, some suck. It's almost never my first choice. 2. Do you use 414's bass cut options with male voices? 75 or 150 hz? No. I use other means to get around the problem range. 3. Is my main problem my Mackie (hiding some main character that the 414 has?), and could it be solved with a better mic preamp? Don't know. A 414 can sound very good through certain preamps, as well as not very good at all with some high end preamps. 4. Do you have any suggestions as what could be a good vocal mic (within the $100-500 price range) for my type of (soft, deep, not very powerful) voice. Voices are way too individual to know what mic will compliment your sound. Trial & error is indispensible. Scott Fraser |
#5
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The sound of AKG C-414 B-ULS
3. Is my main problem my Mackie (hiding some main character that the
414 has?), and could it be solved with a better mic preamp? Don't know. A 414 can sound very good through certain preamps, as well as not very good at all with some high end preamps. Take the $500. and get a FMR RNMP or Grace and try your 414 again or the SM57. A better preamp might do more good than a different mic. :) 4. Do you have any suggestions as what could be a good vocal mic (within the $100-500 price range) for my type of (soft, deep, not very powerful) voice. Voices are way too individual to know what mic will compliment your sound. Trial & error is indispensible. Scott Fraser For your voice and price point I suggest you try the following mics if you're gonna use the Mackie: Chinese knockoffs - MXL's or Studio Projects. AT4040 EV RE-20 Sennheiser MD421 --Wayne -"sounded good to me"- |
#6
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The sound of AKG C-414 B-ULS
(Kalle L.) wrote in message . com...
1. Has any of you have had experiences with recording male vocal with C414 B-ULS with similar results (the voice not coming out with enough treble or presence) FWIW, I've felt that the 414 sounds good on higher male or female voices. For instance, I work with a singer/songwriter who sounds somewhat like Don Henley, kinda high and airy, and it's great on his voice. 4. Do you have any suggestions as what could be a good vocal mic (within the $100-500 price range) for my type of (soft, deep, not very powerful) voice. Beyer M500? You could probably pick one of those up for maybe two hundred. But, as others have said, if there's any way possible to try it first I would highly recommend that. |
#7
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The sound of AKG C-414 B-ULS
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#8
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The sound of AKG C-414 B-ULS
In Article ,
(ScotFraser) wrote: Voices are way too individual to know what mic will compliment your sound. Trial & error is indispensible. Scott Fraser Truer words were never spoken. Regards, Ty Ford **Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address. Please remove it if you want to email me directly. For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews, click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford |
#9
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The sound of AKG C-414 B-ULS
I've got to say I love my pair of 414 buls se mics. I use them often
but rarely for vocals. Evryone here has given some great advice for other mics but I want to really drive the point home that each person's voice has so many qualities that what works for one person may or may not work well for another. You really, must audition various mics to find what will work for you. One of the advantages of well equiped pro facilities is that they can often line up a bunch of mics and pre's and do a quick test of your voice on each then you can know at least in that room, what combo captures your voice most favorably. You may consider booking an hour of time at a few studio's as the time you save by being able to audition the mics may be worth it to you, not to mention all the info you may get from a good engineer during your mic shootout. good luck on your search and by the way a good vocal mic that often gets overlooked and that is affordable is the AKG C535. You'll not regret having it around for other instrument later on to if your mic budget grows. Chris wavetrap (WillStG) wrote in message ... (Kalle L.) I have AKG C-414 B-ULS mic, which I've been using for recording almost everything through my Mackie 1202 VLZ mixer. But often for some more uptempo, rockish material my SM-57 has seemed to suite my voice better. I have a kind of muddy (some would say soft) voice, not a rock voice at all, although that's what I seem to sing with it It just seems that it benefits from Shure's presence and straightforward treble end. Then again, I don't think SM-57 works too well on slow songs, which would demand more accuracy, softness and details from the mic. If you sound good on an SM57, you sound good on an SM57. You have plenty of Rock & Roll company in that, many rock singers have used them to record their vocals although Neumanns and mics costing more were available. Maybe you should consider yourself lucky you sound good on a cheap mic? As for the 414BULS, most people around here don't really like them much anyway. The original 414's were very different sounding. If you want a condenser for more subtle songs though, the MXL mics like the V67 are cheap enough around $100, the AT4050 is decent around $500 - maybe you'll get lucky again... g Will Miho NY Music & TV Audio Guy Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits |
#10
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The sound of AKG C-414 B-ULS
Hi,
First of all, I really want to thank everyone who answered my questions, you've given me some valuable information. I've asked advice a couple times here, and I've always received great answers. I would love to be able to test mics somewhere near (or even far), but that just isn't possible. I live in a small country & a small town, and the selection of mics in the local shops & towns nearby is very very limited. I gather that it's a fact that for my type of voice 414 isn't too good. My voice is exactly the opposite from Don Henley's by the way Someone asked for the proximity that I record with...I am usually around one feet away from the mic, using a pop shield. And I mainly use cardioid pattern. But I guess I'm lucky that SM57 can deliver the goods for me at least in faster, rocking songs. But I have a firm belief that there is a deeper quality to my voice, that's yet to be captured by it, so I'll keep on looking. When checking out the specs of Studio Projects v67 it looks like it could suit my voice very well. I've been also looking at SE Electronic mic line, mostly the Z5600 model.... they might not be that good, but heck: with them it doesn't cost too much to try, either! Have a good one! Kalle from Finland |
#11
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The sound of AKG C-414 B-ULS
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#12
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The sound of AKG C-414 B-ULS
I've been trying to use my 414 ULS for vocals for 10 years and have
never been happy. The high end peak on it is too high to help with vocals. The presence peak should be lower (4000 - 8000 khz). Also it is so sensitive to proximity effect, that an inch or two difference changes the whole sound of the mic (in cardiod). The wooley sound can be lost if you place the mic just the right distance from the singer (I've found 9 inches to be best), but what singer holds that still? I am now using a Studio Pro C3 (large diaphram, multi pattern) with much more success. It's only $325. It's wonderful sounding on voices, as well as drum overheads, accordions, clarinets (and probably a lot of other instruments). |
#13
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The sound of AKG C-414 B-ULS
In Article ,
(Junkmetal) wrote: I've been trying to use my 414 ULS for vocals for 10 years and have never been happy. The high end peak on it is too high to help with vocals. The presence peak should be lower (4000 - 8000 khz). Also it is so sensitive to proximity effect, that an inch or two difference changes the whole sound of the mic (in cardiod). The wooley sound can be lost if you place the mic just the right distance from the singer (I've found 9 inches to be best), but what singer holds that still? I am now using a Studio Pro C3 (large diaphram, multi pattern) with much more success. It's only $325. It's wonderful sounding on voices, as well as drum overheads, accordions, clarinets (and probably a lot of other instruments). Ewww! Ty **Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address. Please remove it if you want to email me directly. For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews, click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford |
#14
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The sound of AKG C-414 B-ULS
In Article ,
(Junkmetal) wrote: I've been trying to use my 414 ULS for vocals for 10 years and have never been happy. The high end peak on it is too high to help with vocals. The presence peak should be lower (4000 - 8000 khz). Also it is so sensitive to proximity effect, that an inch or two difference changes the whole sound of the mic (in cardiod). The wooley sound can be lost if you place the mic just the right distance from the singer (I've found 9 inches to be best), but what singer holds that still? I am now using a Studio Pro C3 (large diaphram, multi pattern) with much more success. It's only $325. It's wonderful sounding on voices, as well as drum overheads, accordions, clarinets (and probably a lot of other instruments). Ewww! Ty Translation please :) And remember, I like the TLII better than the BULS (BULS - - -), especially thru the GR 2NV. --Wayne -"sounded good to me"- |
#15
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The sound of AKG C-414 B-ULS
In article , Ty Ford
wrote: 4. Do you have any suggestions as what could be a good vocal mic (within the $100-500 price range) for my type of (soft, deep, not very powerful) voice. Unfortunately my town has a very poor selection of mics so I cannot really try out too many, otherwise I would of course take a listen to them. Which of the four patterns on the 414 are you using? Figure of eight and hypercardioid will give you more bass boost, especially when set less than a foot away. How close are you? You should be at least a foot away from the mic. I am a fan of the current 414, but not for singing. It is my fave voiceover mic 'tho. I cut vocals with the singer as close to the mic as I can get him/her, to get the sound I like. It is always less than a foot. Of course I am using nice mic pre's. I think Ty's question of which pickup pattern was one I was also going to raise. Do you know which pattern you are using? The original poster said he wasn't getting something bright enough. I reach for a 414 when I am looking to brighten something up. David Correia Celebration Sound Warren, Rhode Island www.CelebrationSound.com |
#16
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The sound of AKG C-414 B-ULS
Hi there,
I am a fan of the current 414, but not for singing. It is my fave voiceover mic 'tho. I've noticed also that it sometimes seems to work on voiceovers, even with my voice. But someone mentioned the "wooly" quality in it. I agree, 100%, at least that's how it sounded with my vocal. "mud" would be one term, but maybe too strong. I think Ty's question of which pickup pattern was one I was also going to raise. Do you know which pattern you are using? I tested with cardioid and hyper-cardioid. The latter seemed somehow have less that "woolly" character but it lacked punch at the same time. The original poster said he wasn't getting something bright enough. I reach for a 414 when I am looking to brighten something up. Yeah, I do that too. But with my voice it just...well it sounds "wooly" 'Junkmetal' wrote that he had noticed how proximity effect played very prominent role with trying to record vocals with 414 and I agree. And I hate that, cannot seem to correct that with a compressor either. willp17 wrote: BTW, by pointing out that the singer I work with has a voice similiar to Don Henley and uses a 414 very successfully, I had hoped to convey that the 414 was exactly the wrong mic for your voice as you described it. Sorry if that fell flat. No you didn't... I got that. I guess I didn't achieve very well in stating that I agree with you: my voice in the opposite from Don Henley-ish voice (I really don't have highs or air in my voice), and therefore it makes sense why you succeeded where I failed. But anyway, I'm happy that I tested my mics really extensively this time, cause it clearly is better to understand their characters more before I start my next session... Until now, I've stubled into my problems usually at session time, and that's not so cool to face them when I have the best artistic drive on and should get something on tape. Again, thanks to everyone for advices & insights. This forum is the coolest! Best Regards, Kalle |
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