I have been noticing more and more releases on vinyl, old and new
material. Can't say I'm not pleased, but a little surprised. And now I
see the Stones are doing it right after they released a bunch on SACD.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=769&e=1&u=/nm/20031111/music_nm/music_stones_dc

it never went away, just underground.


P h i l i p

______________________________

"I'm too ****ing busy and vice-versa"

- Dorothy Parker

I have been noticing more and more releases on vinyl, old and new
material.

It's been around in small runs on the "right" releases.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

Guitarist saved tubes and now Club and Hip Hop Dj's are saving vinyl.
What crazee trend is going to save FM synths or 16bit 44/1k ???- I wonder...

chris
wavetrap


(Fill X) wrote in message ...
it never went away, just underground.


P h i l i p

______________________________

"I'm too ****ing busy and vice-versa"

- Dorothy Parker

Rob Adelman )
in article wrote:
I have been noticing more and more releases on vinyl, old and new
material. Can't say I'm not pleased, but a little surprised. And now I
see the Stones are doing it right after they released a bunch on SACD.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=769&e=1&u=/nm/20031111/music_nm/music_stones_dc


Scott Dorsey also touched on this topic at the very end of his recent AES
report -- "Some folks are actually opening up a brand new LP pressing
plant in Brooklyn."

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue9/aes2003.htm


- Brian

In article writes:

What crazee trend is going to save FM synths or 16bit 44/1k ???- I wonder...

I suppose that in the right hands, there's still a lot of life left in
FM synthesis. And around here, we call 16-bit/44.1 kHz "real world."
No bootup required.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Fill X" wrote in message


it never went away, just underground.

Eliminate "turntablists" and the alleged vinyl boom turns to dust.

Brian Takei wrote:


Scott Dorsey also touched on this topic at the very end of his recent AES
report -- "Some folks are actually opening up a brand new LP pressing
plant in Brooklyn."

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue9/aes2003.htm


Thanks Brian. I have to admit with so much info in the report I didn't
make it that far into it the first time.

-Rob

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Fill X" wrote in message


it never went away, just underground.

Eliminate "turntablists" and the alleged vinyl boom turns to dust.

God bless turntablists.

dtk

I just reinstalled my turntable (Dual 1229 w/Shure V-15 III) after years of CDs
only. The albums I loved growing up, like the Byrds, Jefferson Airplane,
Rolling Stones, etc. sound strident and thin compared even to my own
recordings.

I'm going to check out some of the last LPs I bought (Police, Peter Gabriel,
English Beat, Elvis Costello) and see if they sound better. I sure hope they
do. I also have the Bob and Ray's Stereo Spectacular album that I should try
out, as it was pretty high fidelity for the time and I didn't play it to death.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ----x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x

Fill X wrote:
it never went away, just underground.

Yeah, but in the last year or so, I have been getting a lot more requests
to cut lacquers than I have had in some time. And there seem to be a few
brand new pressing plants opening up these days. That sounds like a bit of
a renaissance of sorts.

And I don't do dance music, so I have pretty much eliminated 90% of the
market for mastering work. This means that the increase I'm seeing is all
in non-dance stuff.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

And I don't do dance music, so I have pretty much eliminated 90% of the
market for mastering work. This means that the increase I'm seeing is all
in non-dance stuff.


I recently bought John Mayer's new release as well as his first one on
vinyl. Also Henley's 'Inside Job" (2000) and seeing many more non-dance
stuff coming out. Strange, but nice!

In article ,
Rob Adelman wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:

And I don't do dance music, so I have pretty much eliminated 90% of the
market for mastering work. This means that the increase I'm seeing is all
in non-dance stuff.


I recently bought John Mayer's new release as well as his first one on
vinyl. Also Henley's 'Inside Job" (2000) and seeing many more non-dance
stuff coming out. Strange, but nice!


I was in Virgin the other day and they had a pretty good vinyl display
upstairs. I was actually a little surprised at the variety and the floor
space they had dedicated to it.

(Chris Seifert) wrote in message . com...
Guitarist saved tubes and now Club and Hip Hop Dj's are saving vinyl.
What crazee trend is going to save FM synths or 16bit 44/1k ???- I wonder...

John Chowning's FM synthesis is a computationally cheap way to get
very complex timbres, and it doesn't need any trends, crazee or
otherwise, to save it. It does its thing very, very well.

-Matt

In article writes:

I was in Virgin the other day and they had a pretty good vinyl display
upstairs. I was actually a little surprised at the variety and the floor
space they had dedicated to it.

So how much do new LPs cost these days? Are they any better a deal
than CDs? Or worse? Or do you just get fewer songs for about the same
price as a CD? (which these days, mostly, is better)


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Mike Rivers wrote:

So how much do new LPs cost these days? Are they any better a deal
than CDs? Or worse? Or do you just get fewer songs for about the same
price as a CD? (which these days, mostly, is better)

They seem to cost about the same as the CD. So I would think there has
to be less profit in it. Henley's 'Inside Job' is a very long CD, and
ended up on a two record set, and it did cost a lot more. Excellent
cutting job though, don't recall any major crackles or pops.

In the home audio arena, sales numbers of really expensive turntables are
higher than they've ever been. Far, far higher than the numbers before cd
was invented. Case in point: If Nakamichi had continued making their $1740
DragonCT auto-centering turntable(a table for which I have lust in my
heart), rather than dropping it when cd caught on in 1984, I am absolutely
sure that they would still be a healthy company, and that they'd easily be
selling those tables for $3000 or more. The high-end turntable market is
way stronger than any level of the home cassette deck market nowadays.

--
Stephen Sank, Owner & Ribbon Mic Restorer
Talking Dog Transducer Company
http://stephensank.com
5517 Carmelita Drive N.E.
Albuquerque, New Mexico [87111]
505-332-0336
Auth. Nakamichi & McIntosh servicer
Payments preferred through Paypal.com
"Rob Adelman" wrote in message
...


Mike Rivers wrote:

So how much do new LPs cost these days? Are they any better a deal
than CDs? Or worse? Or do you just get fewer songs for about the same
price as a CD? (which these days, mostly, is better)

They seem to cost about the same as the CD. So I would think there has
to be less profit in it. Henley's 'Inside Job' is a very long CD, and
ended up on a two record set, and it did cost a lot more. Excellent
cutting job though, don't recall any major crackles or pops.

Mike Rivers wrote:

In article writes:

I was in Virgin the other day and they had a pretty good vinyl display
upstairs. I was actually a little surprised at the variety and the floor
space they had dedicated to it.

So how much do new LPs cost these days? Are they any better a deal
than CDs? Or worse? Or do you just get fewer songs for about the same
price as a CD? (which these days, mostly, is better)

http://store.acousticsounds.com/ has a lot of popular back catalog
re-releases and also new releases

Stephen Sank wrote:

In the home audio arena, sales numbers of really expensive turntables are
higher than they've ever been. Far, far higher than the numbers before cd
was invented. Case in point: If Nakamichi had continued making their $1740
DragonCT auto-centering turntable(a table for which I have lust in my
heart), rather than dropping it when cd caught on in 1984, I am absolutely
sure that they would still be a healthy company, and that they'd easily be
selling those tables for $3000 or more. The high-end turntable market is
way stronger than any level of the home cassette deck market nowadays.

and there's a market for $2k cartridges

In article znr1068672448k@trad, Mike Rivers wrote:
In article writes:

I was in Virgin the other day and they had a pretty good vinyl display
upstairs. I was actually a little surprised at the variety and the floor
space they had dedicated to it.

So how much do new LPs cost these days? Are they any better a deal
than CDs? Or worse? Or do you just get fewer songs for about the same
price as a CD? (which these days, mostly, is better)

Generally about the same price as the CD, although sometimes they will add
additional cuts to the LP that aren't on the CD. Isn't that a change?

It's possible to do a run of 300 LP pressings for a good bit less than a
run of 300 pressed CDs, but by the time you run a thousand off, the CD is
much cheaper. The difference is even more pronounced if you want fancy cover
art.

One of the advantages of vinyl is that for a lot of short pressings, people
don't expect fancy cover art and they don't mind cutout covers so you can
see the label. On the other hand, if you want fancy cover art, you have a
whole square foot to display it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article writes:

In the home audio arena, sales numbers of really expensive turntables are
higher than they've ever been. Far, far higher than the numbers before cd
was invented.

That's probably because there are far more on the market than ever. I
love looking at them at CES. They're such wonderful mechanical designs
and builds, and many look like sculpture that deserves a place in a
museum. I trust that they work better than my 1969 vintage Dual 1019.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

So how much do new LPs cost these days? Are they any better a deal
than CDs? Or worse? Or do you just get fewer songs for about the same
price as a CD? (which these days, mostly, is better)

http://store.acousticsounds.com/ has a lot of popular back catalog
re-releases and also new releases

And how does this answer my question? I asked for an answer, not a
source to do more research. If you know, tell me. If you don't know,
I'll wait for someone who has some experience.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

OK, before I go grab my old AR-XB out of storage (probably still
fitted with a Shure M91 cartridge, might be time for a new one...) can
anyone comment on the quality of the new vinyl releases?

Any of us old enough to remember the obscene degradation of major
label release quality between say the mid-sixties and the early 80's,
are gonna want to know what it is we're getting for our $15.99.

(warning: Old dude veering off topic - this "Let it Be Nekkid"
nonsense reminds me of the several times I walked over to the local
music store in Westwood, NJ and asked if they had the original Let it
Be in stock yet. This was in the days before every store in America
had the product for sale at the same instant. One day the clerk gave
me the same "not yet kid" look, but then pointed over to a stack of
45s with a white jacket; the unexpected Instant Karma single kept me
going until Let it Be finally came out. But we will NOT talk about
the flip side of that 45; my youthful ears are still scarred)

Anyway, back to quality - the last couple of dozen "current" releases
I purchased back in the later 70s were absolutely horrible quality.
I'm talking about vinyl manufacturing, not recording or mastering
problems. How do the new vinyl releases compare?

The only other thing stopping me from getting all excited about vinyl
again is knowing how many of my existing records are just beat to ****
and mostly unplayable. too many years of 3am post gig parties where
everything in the room got coated with booze, smoke and worse....

hollywood_steve wrote:
OK, before I go grab my old AR-XB out of storage (probably still
fitted with a Shure M91 cartridge, might be time for a new one...) can
anyone comment on the quality of the new vinyl releases?

In general they are pretty good, and they are good mostly because mastering
folks have the expectation that people are going to be playing back on good
equipment. So there isn't the push to make records that will track properly
on jukeboxes, Dynagroove crap, and stuff like that.

Also, when people are paying as much for an LP as for a CD, they tend to
expect a lot. So you'll find that 140 gram pressings have become pretty
much standard, with a lot of stuff out there on 180 gram discs. The days
of 60 gram flimsy junk are pretty much gone.

Any of us old enough to remember the obscene degradation of major
label release quality between say the mid-sixties and the early 80's,
are gonna want to know what it is we're getting for our $15.99.

I think in general the folks doing vinyl work today are people who care
about the music, rather than folks tossing off discs as quickly as possible,
as was happening in the early eighties.

Anyway, back to quality - the last couple of dozen "current" releases
I purchased back in the later 70s were absolutely horrible quality.
I'm talking about vinyl manufacturing, not recording or mastering
problems. How do the new vinyl releases compare?

Pretty good, because the people who are doing vinyl actually care about it.
It's been a while since I have seen a big blister in the middle of a record
or stuff made with worn cutters that never would track right.

The only other thing stopping me from getting all excited about vinyl
again is knowing how many of my existing records are just beat to ****
and mostly unplayable. too many years of 3am post gig parties where
everything in the room got coated with booze, smoke and worse....

Get yourself a vacuum machine like a Nitty Gritty or VPI, and a fineline
cartridge, and you'll be amazed how decent you can get some of those to sound.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Mike Rivers wrote:

In article writes:

So how much do new LPs cost these days? Are they any better a deal
than CDs? Or worse? Or do you just get fewer songs for about the same
price as a CD? (which these days, mostly, is better)

http://store.acousticsounds.com/ has a lot of popular back catalog
re-releases and also new releases

And how does this answer my question? I asked for an answer, not a
source to do more research. If you know, tell me. If you don't know,
I'll wait for someone who has some experience.

Gee, sorry the link upset you so much. Since there's different pressings
for most releases, as little as $9.99 to over $30 for audiophile
pressings. If you're interested in buying vinyl, they carry most titles
in print.

steve wrote:


http://store.acousticsounds.com/ has a lot of popular back catalog

If you're interested in buying vinyl, they carry most titles
in print.

I have also been buying most of my vinyl and SACD's from this store lately.

-Rob

http://store.acousticsounds.com/ has a lot of popular back catalog


Holy cow, 10 grand for a turntable! 10" records $50.00!

Who is buying this stuff besides Bill gates?


(Mark Steven Brooks/Elaterium Music)

"Mark Steven Brooks" wrote in message

http://store.acousticsounds.com/ has a lot of popular back catalog



Holy cow, 10 grand for a turntable! 10" records $50.00!

Who is buying this stuff besides Bill gates?

People who are sentimental?

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1068639139k@trad...
In article writes:

What crazee trend is going to save FM synths or 16bit 44/1k ???- I wonder...

I suppose that in the right hands, there's still a lot of life left in
FM synthesis. And around here, we call 16-bit/44.1 kHz "real world."
No bootup required.

amen.

In article writes:

So how much do new LPs cost these days?

Generally about the same price as the CD, although sometimes they will add
additional cuts to the LP that aren't on the CD. Isn't that a change?

Since CDs are typically longer than the maximum time you can cut on a
12" disk, I guess they'd have to drop a few cuts from the CD version,
so it's probalby safe to say that some of them are just plain
different, with maybe the hit songs in common.

Hopefully, they drop stuff that most people don't want to listen to
anyway.

One of the advantages of vinyl is that for a lot of short pressings, people
don't expect fancy cover art and they don't mind cutout covers so you can
see the label. On the other hand, if you want fancy cover art, you have a
whole square foot to display it.

That's the best part of a 12" record - you can actually read the
jacket notes and enjoy the artwork.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

hollywood_steve wrote:

OK, before I go grab my old AR-XB out of storage (probably still
fitted with a Shure M91 cartridge, might be time for a new one...) can
anyone comment on the quality of the new vinyl releases?

I think the last new vinyl I bought was one of Johnny Cash's American
Recordings record. Maybe the 3rd one. It sounds fantastic.

But the main reason I never stopped listening to vinyl is because I can
go buy old records for $2.50 at the used record store, or $0.50 at the
Salvation Army, if I stumble upon something interesting. And for
$0.50, it really doesn't have to be THAT interesting. I'm not going to
pay retail for a new (or even a used) CD just to get nostalgic on some
one-hit wonder, and I don't do the MP3 or P2P thing, so buying used
vinyl is my solution.

Any of us old enough to remember the obscene degradation of major
label release quality between say the mid-sixties and the early 80's,
are gonna want to know what it is we're getting for our $15.99.

Yeah, but by and large the stuff that turns up in used record stores is
pretty decent. I think the crap just hasn't survived.

Anyway, back to quality - the last couple of dozen "current" releases
I purchased back in the later 70s were absolutely horrible quality.
I'm talking about vinyl manufacturing, not recording or mastering
problems. How do the new vinyl releases compare?

The only other thing stopping me from getting all excited about vinyl
again is knowing how many of my existing records are just beat to ****
and mostly unplayable. too many years of 3am post gig parties where
everything in the room got coated with booze, smoke and worse....

Well, of you take care of them they last a lot longer. And the people
pressing vinyl today are mostly doing so because they like the way it
sounds, so they don't bother with cheap, ****ty pressings. There's
some good vinyl being made today, and there are some VERY good
pressings being done. The "audiophile" stuff on extra-thick vinyl can
be surprisingly quiet. It all depends on having your equipment set up
right, of course. I don't mean $10k turntables, but decent and in good
repair. And cleaning the records, of course.

ulysses

Mike Rivers wrote:

In article writes:

So how much do new LPs cost these days?

Generally about the same price as the CD, although sometimes they will add
additional cuts to the LP that aren't on the CD. Isn't that a change?

Since CDs are typically longer than the maximum time you can cut on a
12" disk, I guess they'd have to drop a few cuts from the CD version,
so it's probalby safe to say that some of them are just plain
different, with maybe the hit songs in common.

Hopefully, they drop stuff that most people don't want to listen to
anyway.

Among recent releases where the vinyl comes our concurrently to or
after the CD, I never see songs missing from the LP. Most people who
put out both CD and vinyl are either tasteful enough to keep the album
to a reasonable length, or pompous enough to put out a double album.
So it's not really a problem.

In the early days, I remember seeing CDs that had a "Bonus cut" that
wasn't on the LP or cassette. Having been accustomed to the continuity
of the original release, I've often been ****ed off by the disruption
caused by an outtake tacked onto the end of an otherwise
brilliantly-concluded album. Two examples that spring to mind are Soul
Asylum's Hang Time and Sonic Youth's Sister. Then there was the first
Crowded House record where they not only added a song that was
obviously left off for a reason, but they ****ed the song order all
around so it wasn't as cohesive. People need to learn that EVERY album
is a concept album. Failing to realize that only causes the concept of
your albums to be poorly constructed and not fully realized.


ulysses

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote:

There's
some good vinyl being made today, and there are some VERY good
pressings being done. The "audiophile" stuff on extra-thick vinyl can
be surprisingly quiet.

Check out that Acoustic Sounds link. You can get almost every Led
Zeppelin record on 200 gram vinyl.

Rob Adelman wrote:
Justin Ulysses Morse wrote:

There's
some good vinyl being made today, and there are some VERY good
pressings being done. The "audiophile" stuff on extra-thick vinyl can
be surprisingly quiet.

Check out that Acoustic Sounds link. You can get almost every Led
Zeppelin record on 200 gram vinyl.


Who is pressing these? Is anyone doing 200 gram pressings other than RTI?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Brian Takei wrote in message

"Some folks are actually opening up a brand new LP pressing
plant in Brooklyn."



I am one of the some folks at Brooklynphono. We see a healthy demand
for vinyl. It is both fun and frustrating to deal with. I'm the
mastering engineer and I see equal parts electronica and indie rock.
We like both and want to work primarily with those genres. We have
done some rap and reggae but we are concentrating on electronica and
rock.

Paul Gold

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...


Who is pressing these? Is anyone doing 200 gram pressings other than RTI?


I thought RTI was doing 180g max. I could be wrong. I dont think any
other US plant is doing records that heavy. We are doing 150g records.
It seemslike a nice compromise between nice feel and expensive
shipping. DJ's don't like the 180's too much either. They are harder
to handle.

The dies for the pressing machines are very expensive and you need
seperate dies for each profile you want to press. It's no small task
to change them and recalibrate the press. Once you have a good die in
a working press you leave it there.

I saw some 7" from the plant in the Czech Republic that would have
been upwards of 200g if they were 12".

Paul Gold

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote:


But the main reason I never stopped listening to vinyl is because I can
go buy old records for $2.50 at the used record store, or $0.50 at the
Salvation Army, if I stumble upon something interesting. And for
$0.50, it really doesn't have to be THAT interesting. I'm not going to
pay retail for a new (or even a used) CD just to get nostalgic on some
one-hit wonder, and I don't do the MP3 or P2P thing, so buying used
vinyl is my solution.

I picked up a ****load of used vinyl for as little as a nickel back in
the 80's when everybody thought CD was the **** and were dumping their
record collections. I got a lot of 60's British pressings that sound
better than the American pressings and just amazing compared to CD
releases.

Paul Gold wrote:


I am one of the some folks at Brooklynphono. We see a healthy demand
for vinyl. It is both fun and frustrating to deal with. I'm the
mastering engineer and I see equal parts electronica and indie rock.
We like both and want to work primarily with those genres. We have
done some rap and reggae but we are concentrating on electronica and
rock.


So is this the only pressing plant in the US?

ulysses

Rob Adelman wrote:

I have been noticing more and more releases on vinyl, old and new
material. Can't say I'm not pleased, but a little surprised. And now I
see the Stones are doing it right after they released a bunch on SACD.

In the UK, vinyl ( 12" singles ) is very popular with DJs who 'mix' as they like to call it. If
you're going to 'scratch' or whatever, vinyl's the one to have.

Friend of mine who's into it says there's a shortage of pressing capacity now !


Graham

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote in message news
So is this the only pressing plant in the US?

Nope. Not even close. There are three just in NYC. Another two in
north New Jersey. A few in California, a couple in Florida and some
other ones as well. The facility with the largest capacity is
Universal in Gloversville NY. Brooklynphono has two working presses to
Universals 30 or so.

Paul Gold
www.vinylmastering.net
www.brooklynphono.com