Greetings all, I've been using a Senn. 416 mic for broadcast VO more
frequently, having previously relied on a TLM 103 pretty regularly.
Given the 103's low self-noise, by comparison the 416's higher noise
floor is
noticeable particularly if using the latter for a track delivered
"dry" elsewhere for mix or post. My booth is very dead so long
pauses
on a narration piece using the 416' reveal its self-noise more
prominently.

I would welcome any thoughts on how i might deal with this issue.
Processing at present does not incorporate any gate or downward
expander as I've always maintained a pretty "minimalist" attitude
toward having such stuff in my signal path if i don't absolutely have
to.

Processing for both mics is essentially a Great River preNeve9098 EQ
ExpressorWaves L2, into a Lynx card and Bias Peak 2-trak on a Mac G4.

Happy to hear any opinions on how this. Given the gear I already
have,
if an expander/gate seems in order, i'd welcome opinions on good names
to consider.

Thanks as always, RAP Folks,

Mike

On 23 Oct 2003 13:47:55 -0700, (mike e) wrote:

Greetings all, I've been using a Senn. 416 mic for broadcast VO more
frequently, having previously relied on a TLM 103 pretty regularly.
Given the 103's low self-noise, by comparison the 416's higher noise
floor is
noticeable particularly if using the latter for a track delivered
"dry" elsewhere for mix or post. My booth is very dead so long
pauses
on a narration piece using the 416' reveal its self-noise more
prominently.

I would welcome any thoughts on how i might deal with this issue.
Processing at present does not incorporate any gate or downward
expander as I've always maintained a pretty "minimalist" attitude
toward having such stuff in my signal path if i don't absolutely have
to.

Processing for both mics is essentially a Great River preNeve9098 EQ
ExpressorWaves L2, into a Lynx card and Bias Peak 2-trak on a Mac G4.

Happy to hear any opinions on how this. Given the gear I already
have,
if an expander/gate seems in order, i'd welcome opinions on good names
to consider.

Thanks as always, RAP Folks,

Mike


If you are referring to an mkh 416, it shouldn't be noisy by any
stretch of the imagination. Send it back to Sennheiser to get cleaned
and tuned up.


Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com

"Rick Ruskin" wrote in message
...
On 23 Oct 2003 13:47:55 -0700, (mike e) wrote:

Greetings all, I've been using a Senn. 416 mic for broadcast VO more
frequently, having previously relied on a TLM 103 pretty regularly.
Given the 103's low self-noise, by comparison the 416's higher noise
floor is
noticeable particularly if using the latter for a track delivered
"dry" elsewhere for mix or post. My booth is very dead so long
pauses
on a narration piece using the 416' reveal its self-noise more
prominently.

I would welcome any thoughts on how i might deal with this issue.
Processing at present does not incorporate any gate or downward
expander as I've always maintained a pretty "minimalist" attitude
toward having such stuff in my signal path if i don't absolutely have
to.

Processing for both mics is essentially a Great River preNeve9098 EQ
ExpressorWaves L2, into a Lynx card and Bias Peak 2-trak on a Mac G4.

Happy to hear any opinions on how this. Given the gear I already
have,
if an expander/gate seems in order, i'd welcome opinions on good names
to consider.

Thanks as always, RAP Folks,

Mike


If you are referring to an mkh 416, it shouldn't be noisy by any
stretch of the imagination. Send it back to Sennheiser to get cleaned
and tuned up.


Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com

I use a 416. It may be noisier than a TLM 103, the difference is
insignificant in my VO recordings. Unless you are recording the sound of a
leaf dropping on foam rubber you should be good to go. Ideally, try to find
a studio that has a 416 so that you can compare. Otherwise, send it to
Sennheiser.

Steve King

mike e wrote:
My booth is very dead so long
pauses
on a narration piece using the 416' reveal its self-noise more
prominently.

I would welcome any thoughts on how i might deal with this issue.

Stop worrying about it so much. Add a music bed to hide the noise floor.

Processing at present does not incorporate any gate or downward
expander as I've always maintained a pretty "minimalist" attitude
toward having such stuff in my signal path if i don't absolutely have
to.

In general, any compression you do is going to make the problem a lot
worse. Using an AVC box that holds level between words (like an Audimax)
won't be as much of a problem as a standard compressor.

Happy to hear any opinions on how this.

You worry too much. Nobody will hear it with the music bed up anyway,
especially not on their 3" TV speaker.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Mike E. wrote:

Given the 103's low self-noise, by comparison the 416's higher noise
floor is
noticeable....

If the selfnoise of your MKH-416 is noticeable, you've got a problem with it.
(Or, like Scott said, maybe you're just hypersensitive.) I'm inclined to
believe you might have a problem, because the 416 is very quiet.

If you have an older 416, the caps in the RF circuit change over a long period
of time, de-tuning the circuit, possibly decreasing the output and increasing
noise. If your 416 is old enough to be silver, it might need a tweek from
Sennheiser.

Another possibility is that you've got a 416T that you're running off P48V
phantom power using a converter. Sometimes those don't work as well as a
dedicated T-power supply, which you can get for around $100 bucks.

Or, maybe you're just hearing things. Remember that using headphones not only
presents a superquiet listening environment, but many phones sport a brilliant
peak in the upper-mids and highs. Sony 7506 and Sennheiser "Ultra Linear"
snicker come to mind.

Are you actually hearing the selfnoise on speaker monitors at a *reasonable*
level? In my studio into a Symetrix 628 digital voice processor, the selfnoise
of my TLM103 and 416 are inaudible below the room noise even with heavy
compression and EQ.

Jeff Jasper
Jeff Jasper Productions, West Funroe, La.

In Article ,
(mike e) wrote:
Greetings all, I've been using a Senn. 416 mic for broadcast VO more
frequently, having previously relied on a TLM 103 pretty regularly.
Given the 103's low self-noise, by comparison the 416's higher noise
floor is
noticeable particularly if using the latter for a track delivered
"dry" elsewhere for mix or post. My booth is very dead so long
pauses
on a narration piece using the 416' reveal its self-noise more
prominently.

I would welcome any thoughts on how i might deal with this issue.
Processing at present does not incorporate any gate or downward
expander as I've always maintained a pretty "minimalist" attitude
toward having such stuff in my signal path if i don't absolutely have
to.

Processing for both mics is essentially a Great River preNeve9098 EQ
ExpressorWaves L2, into a Lynx card and Bias Peak 2-trak on a Mac G4.

Happy to hear any opinions on how this. Given the gear I already
have,
if an expander/gate seems in order, i'd welcome opinions on good names
to consider.

Thanks as always, RAP Folks,

Mike

Mike,

Having read the other's comments, I can partially agree, but.... Yes the
416 is more noisy. When you use any sort of gain reduction (assuming that's
whhy you're using the expressor and Waves) the noise is exacerbated; you'll
hear it a LOT more in the spaces because of the comressor suck up.

Having said that, the chain you mentioned might also be adding noise so a
TLM 103 might not improve things much.

If you're sending discreet files instead of contiguous audio, you may well
notice the drop out between files, sometimes even with music.

I did my last dozen or so narrations with a TLM 103/GML mic pre and no
processing. I send discreet files. They sounded great. I don't need
contiguous room tone.

Regards,

Ty Ford


**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

If you have an older 416, the caps in the RF circuit change over a long period of time, de-tuning the circuit, possibly decreasing the output and increasing
noise. If your 416 is old enough to be silver, it might need a tweak from

Not that old - bought used tho - it's at least 10-12 years old i suspect...
and not a 'T' --

Or, maybe you're just hearing things. Remember that using headphones not only
presents a superquiet listening environment, but many phones sport a brilliant
peak in the upper-mids and highs. Sony 7506 and Sennheiser "Ultra Linear"
snicker come to mind Are you actually hearing the selfnoise on speaker monitors at a *reasonable*
level?
Noticeable on my 7506s, not so much so tho at reasonable levels on
NS10s or Mackie monitors...

It definitely may be my hypersensitivity esp. with the compression and
comparing with something as quiet as a 103.... tending to think it isn't a
defect based on you guys' opinions but for a few bucks to have it checked
i'm thinking why not have it checked -

Appreciate the input once again,

MS