Doobie-Doo wrote:
Hi all!

I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to car audio. Scratch that. I'm a HUGE
newbie when it comes to car audio, so I think I need a little help here so's
I don't get ripped off.


Admitting you have a problem is the first step towards solving it.

I just recently bought a used car, and the factory stereo sucks big time. I
just want to put in a decent system. A CD and MP3 player with some decent
speakers. I've been reading some websites trying to learn about car audio
systems, but they don't really help you understand what would be the best
for you. I just want a clean sounding system. I don't think I need any
subs or amps. I was just thinking a nice deck and some new speakers (2 way?
3 way?). Any recommendations?


The best for you is going to be what you are happy with. Dont listen to
what ANYONE says about "buy this", or "get that". Go with what you (a)
feel comfortable with, and (b) what sounds good to you.

Now, the best advice I can give along these lines is this:

First, spend some time in the listening room at your local stereo store.
Take a few CD's, and listen to music until you find a set of speakers
you're comfortable with (make sure you're listening to speakers that fit
your car). Take your sweet time. If the sales people start to push, walk
out. If you buy a set of speakers in under an hour, you will likely have
made a poor choice. And check with various car audio shops. Give
everyone a try from Wal-Mart and Best Buy on down to the mom & pop
shops. Don't focus on price either. If you have to pay a few extra bucks
for good speakers, do it - those are the speakers you will have to
listen to every damn day for as long as you own your car. If you prefer
speakers that are actually less expensive, then great! I have often
found that less expensive speakers from certain brands sound just as
good or better than the much more expensive speakers from another brand.

With speakers, it's about the sound. But with headunits, they all sound
the same. They all have "high power" output, they all have pretty much
the same DSP and eq features nowadays. What you're looking for in a
headunit is features. If MP3 is important, make sure you can get one
that will read the ID3 tags and display the info. With 220 songs, it can
get tedious looking for the right one, so it also helps if they have
large displays and can read directories. Finally, make sure they will
read the CD's you burn to. Some will advertise that they are compatible
with CD-R's,b ut they won't work on the el-cheapo Fry's specials (the
blue ones). More importantly, make sure you are paying for features you
aren't using. I still have my Alpine CDA7985, which has BBE (which
sounds horrible when you have a good system), high pass and low pass
outputs built in (which are inflexible compared to the ability of my DEI
three way four channel crossover), RDS (which is great for the three
statiosn that actually display RDS data, assuming I care what the
stations call letters are - RDS is much underused in the US), CD Changer
control / AI-Net control (never used any of this). As you can see, it's
really easy to pay for features you never use, which means you wasted
your money.

Most of all, shop around and take your time on your decision.

--
Lizard

teamROCS #007 / Technical Director / Founding Member *res derelicta*
http://www.teamrocs.com/
X-Header-PO: This Line Exists to Violate Usenet Protocol, Disregard

"The Lizard" wrote in message
...
Doobie-Doo wrote:
Hi all!

I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to car audio. Scratch that. I'm a
HUGE
newbie when it comes to car audio, so I think I need a little help here
so's
I don't get ripped off.


Admitting you have a problem is the first step towards solving it.

I just recently bought a used car, and the factory stereo sucks big
time. I
just want to put in a decent system. A CD and MP3 player with some
decent
speakers. I've been reading some websites trying to learn about car
audio
systems, but they don't really help you understand what would be the
best
for you. I just want a clean sounding system. I don't think I need any
subs or amps. I was just thinking a nice deck and some new speakers (2
way?
3 way?). Any recommendations?


The best for you is going to be what you are happy with. Dont listen to
what ANYONE says about "buy this", or "get that". Go with what you (a)
feel comfortable with, and (b) what sounds good to you.

Now, the best advice I can give along these lines is this:

First, spend some time in the listening room at your local stereo store.
Take a few CD's, and listen to music until you find a set of speakers
you're comfortable with (make sure you're listening to speakers that fit
your car). Take your sweet time. If the sales people start to push, walk
out. If you buy a set of speakers in under an hour, you will likely have
made a poor choice. And check with various car audio shops. Give
everyone a try from Wal-Mart and Best Buy on down to the mom & pop
shops. Don't focus on price either. If you have to pay a few extra bucks
for good speakers, do it - those are the speakers you will have to
listen to every damn day for as long as you own your car. If you prefer
speakers that are actually less expensive, then great! I have often
found that less expensive speakers from certain brands sound just as
good or better than the much more expensive speakers from another brand.

With speakers, it's about the sound. But with headunits, they all sound
the same. They all have "high power" output, they all have pretty much
the same DSP and eq features nowadays. What you're looking for in a
headunit is features. If MP3 is important, make sure you can get one
that will read the ID3 tags and display the info. With 220 songs, it can
get tedious looking for the right one, so it also helps if they have
large displays and can read directories. Finally, make sure they will
read the CD's you burn to. Some will advertise that they are compatible
with CD-R's,b ut they won't work on the el-cheapo Fry's specials (the
blue ones). More importantly, make sure you are paying for features you
aren't using. I still have my Alpine CDA7985, which has BBE (which
sounds horrible when you have a good system), high pass and low pass
outputs built in (which are inflexible compared to the ability of my DEI
three way four channel crossover), RDS (which is great for the three
statiosn that actually display RDS data, assuming I care what the
stations call letters are - RDS is much underused in the US), CD Changer
control / AI-Net control (never used any of this). As you can see, it's
really easy to pay for features you never use, which means you wasted
your money.

Most of all, shop around and take your time on your decision.

--
Lizard

teamROCS #007 / Technical Director / Founding Member *res derelicta*
http://www.teamrocs.com/
X-Header-PO: This Line Exists to Violate Usenet Protocol, Disregard


Great advice Lizard... I just joined the group and was going to ask the same
exact question as Doobie-Doo...

Thanks L, that sounds like great advice.

D

"The Lizard" wrote in message
...
Doobie-Doo wrote:
Hi all!

I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to car audio. Scratch that. I'm a
HUGE
newbie when it comes to car audio, so I think I need a little help here
so's
I don't get ripped off.


Admitting you have a problem is the first step towards solving it.

I just recently bought a used car, and the factory stereo sucks big
time. I
just want to put in a decent system. A CD and MP3 player with some
decent
speakers. I've been reading some websites trying to learn about car
audio
systems, but they don't really help you understand what would be the
best
for you. I just want a clean sounding system. I don't think I need any
subs or amps. I was just thinking a nice deck and some new speakers (2
way?
3 way?). Any recommendations?


The best for you is going to be what you are happy with. Dont listen to
what ANYONE says about "buy this", or "get that". Go with what you (a)
feel comfortable with, and (b) what sounds good to you.

Now, the best advice I can give along these lines is this:

First, spend some time in the listening room at your local stereo store.
Take a few CD's, and listen to music until you find a set of speakers
you're comfortable with (make sure you're listening to speakers that fit
your car). Take your sweet time. If the sales people start to push, walk
out. If you buy a set of speakers in under an hour, you will likely have
made a poor choice. And check with various car audio shops. Give
everyone a try from Wal-Mart and Best Buy on down to the mom & pop
shops. Don't focus on price either. If you have to pay a few extra bucks
for good speakers, do it - those are the speakers you will have to
listen to every damn day for as long as you own your car. If you prefer
speakers that are actually less expensive, then great! I have often
found that less expensive speakers from certain brands sound just as
good or better than the much more expensive speakers from another brand.

With speakers, it's about the sound. But with headunits, they all sound
the same. They all have "high power" output, they all have pretty much
the same DSP and eq features nowadays. What you're looking for in a
headunit is features. If MP3 is important, make sure you can get one
that will read the ID3 tags and display the info. With 220 songs, it can
get tedious looking for the right one, so it also helps if they have
large displays and can read directories. Finally, make sure they will
read the CD's you burn to. Some will advertise that they are compatible
with CD-R's,b ut they won't work on the el-cheapo Fry's specials (the
blue ones). More importantly, make sure you are paying for features you
aren't using. I still have my Alpine CDA7985, which has BBE (which
sounds horrible when you have a good system), high pass and low pass
outputs built in (which are inflexible compared to the ability of my DEI
three way four channel crossover), RDS (which is great for the three
statiosn that actually display RDS data, assuming I care what the
stations call letters are - RDS is much underused in the US), CD Changer
control / AI-Net control (never used any of this). As you can see, it's
really easy to pay for features you never use, which means you wasted
your money.

Most of all, shop around and take your time on your decision.

--
Lizard

teamROCS #007 / Technical Director / Founding Member *res derelicta*
http://www.teamrocs.com/
X-Header-PO: This Line Exists to Violate Usenet Protocol, Disregard

Do I really need amps? I just want a decent system. I'm not going to
compete, and I'm not looking to play music for other people as I drive by.

D

"alon levy" wrote in message
s.com...
get a pioneer headunit a few jl audio 1000/1 amps and a pair of 13w7's
and your ready to go!
--
alon levy
------------------------------------------------------------------------
CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over half a million post online!
View this thread:
http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb2/sh...hreadid=148265

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 at 14:15 GMT, Doobie-Doo wrote:
Do I really need amps? I just want a decent system. I'm not
going to compete, and I'm not looking to play music for other
people as I drive by.

No, but it is a well known fact that the amps in the head units just
are not very good. If you stop and think about it, even in a $500
head unit, they have a radio, CD player, and an amp all in that
space, how good of an amp are you going to be getting?

It is for this reason that many of us, myself included, who have no
desire for anything other then a nice sounding system invest in
external amps.

Sam

So what should I be looking for in an amp? How much power does one need to
power 4 speakers and 2 tweeters? One is enough, I assume.

D

"Sam Carleton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 at 14:15 GMT, Doobie-Doo wrote:
Do I really need amps? I just want a decent system. I'm not
going to compete, and I'm not looking to play music for other
people as I drive by.

No, but it is a well known fact that the amps in the head units just
are not very good. If you stop and think about it, even in a $500
head unit, they have a radio, CD player, and an amp all in that
space, how good of an amp are you going to be getting?

It is for this reason that many of us, myself included, who have no
desire for anything other then a nice sounding system invest in
external amps.

Sam

Yeah definitly take yer music in to pick speakers cause different
speakers play different one diff music. but you deffinately need an amp
you caint starv your highs not good but for the size a 600watt 4 channel
would most likely be enough. but also it depends on what speakers. But
alot of speakers will be compatible. Make sure you get a 2 ohm stable
amp(more power) But yeah talk to the dealers and they'll help you get a
good match of speakers to amp. But im gonna tell you now once you get
started dabbling in car audio it becomes very addictive. Good luck
--
DirtyChevyBoy
------------------------------------------------------------------------
CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over half a million post online!
View this thread: http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb2/sh...hreadid=148265

Ok, this is how big of a newbie I am. I have no idea what you just said
there.

What is a 2 or 3 way? That's the type of speaker right? Read coaxle? It's
one channel per speaker correct? What does the number of watts do per
channel? Would one amp be enough for me?

D

"Sam Carleton" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 at 17:03 GMT, Doobie-Doo wrote:

So what should I be looking for in an amp? How much power does
one need to power 4 speakers and 2 tweeters? One is enough, I
assume.

Well, I won't tell you want to do, but I will enlighten you as to
what I am doing. My car has a 3-way system in the front and 2-way
coaxle in the back. I am going to put the 6.5" in the front on a
seperate amp from the 4" and tweeter.


I have not desided on an amp yet, but once I do, the tweeter/4" and
read coaxle will have a 4 channel amp. I am looking to put anywhere
from 35 watts to 50 watts per channel. The 6.5" and sub will get
the next larger amp from the same manufacture. It seems that this
is normally a 2X increase in power.

I don't see any reason why you would not be very happy with a small
35 watts to 60 watts 4 way amp.

Sam

2 ohm stable amp. Gotcha, no idea what that means, but I gotcha.

The only reason I bought this car was for road trips. I just want a decent
system to pump out some tunes on the highway. I don't want to be pumping
out tunes for 5 blocks. Do I really need an amp just for 'windows up'
listening?

D

"DirtyChevyBoy" wrote in
message s.com...
Yeah definitly take yer music in to pick speakers cause different
speakers play different one diff music. but you deffinately need an amp
you caint starv your highs not good but for the size a 600watt 4 channel
would most likely be enough. but also it depends on what speakers. But
alot of speakers will be compatible. Make sure you get a 2 ohm stable
amp(more power) But yeah talk to the dealers and they'll help you get a
good match of speakers to amp. But im gonna tell you now once you get
started dabbling in car audio it becomes very addictive. Good luck
--
DirtyChevyBoy
------------------------------------------------------------------------
CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over half a million post online!
View this thread:
http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb2/sh...hreadid=148265

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 at 18:12 GMT, Doobie-Doo wrote:

Ok, this is how big of a newbie I am. I have no idea what you
just said there.

What is a 2 or 3 way? That's the type of speaker right? Read
coaxle? It's one channel per speaker correct? What does the
number of watts do per channel? Would one amp be enough for me?

Oh, ok, that is easy to explane. There are three types of car audio
speakers:

Sub woofers -- You said you don't waht one
component -- normally a 2 or 3 speakers (also know as drivers)
full range -- normally all one piece

Full range speakers have both the woofer and tweeter build into one
unit. It is all one peice so all you have to do is hookup the two
wires mount the speaker and you are good to go. Here is a Boston
Acoustic full range speaker:

http://www.bostonacoustics.com/ca_pr...&CategoryID=14

Component speakers come in multiple peices. There are two or three
drivers. In a two driver system (2-way system) there is a woofer
and a tweeter. In a three driver system, there is also a midrange.
Here is an example of a Boston Acoustic component system:

http://www.bostonacoustics.com/ca_pr...&CategoryID=14

You will notice the box that comes with this set. That is the
crossover, it takes the one signle and splits things up so that the
highs go to the tweeter and the lows goto the woofer. The full
range has a crossover, too, it is build into the one unit, though.

The component system will normally sound better, but a lot of cars
come stock with full range speakers so one has to find some place to
mount the tweeter. One always has to find space for the crossover.

In my system, I am going to use a 3-way system in the front, tweeter
and 4" driver in the dashboard and a 6.5" in the door. I am going
to treat it as a 2-way (tweeter & 4") and woofer (6.5") because I am
going to use one amp for the 2-way and another for the woofer. Then
there is going to be one amp for the rear full range speakers, and
finally one amp for the sub woofer.

Now if you count that up, there are four amps. What is an amp?
Well in a stereo, there are two amps, left side amp and right side
amp. So in reality, I need not four, but eight amps! Normally
folks refer to each one of these amps as a "channel" and refer to
the case as an "amp". Thus if you have a 4 channel amp, you have
one box that has four amps. For my system I need two 4-channel
amps, thus two boxes with four amps each.

Then there is WATTS. That is just how folks measure how loud an amp
is. The other poster mentioned a 4x600 WATT amp. That would be 150
watts per channel, but more then likely that is peak power (RMS).
Peak power is how loud it can get for a short period of time.
Normally devide that by two and that is the normal wattage, thus 75
watts.

The real advantage in the larger amp is not how loud it gets, but
having more hump to drive the speakers at a moderate level. I don't
think I could tell the different in loudness from a 50 watt amp and
a 75 watt amp, but all things being the same, the 75 watt amp should
be cleaner sounding because it has more hump at the same volume.
Personally I think that you don't need to exceed 50 watts per
channel. The only reason I am is because the sub woofer and mid
basses (those 6.5" in the door) will need the extra hump to keep up
with the midrange and tweeters.

Hope this helps!

Sam

Oh, and how much should I be looking to spend? I don't want to drop too
much because I'm still paying for the damn car, but I need something quick
because I'm heading to Jasper. I know I'll have to spend about $250 for a
deck that plays MP3's, but what about the speakers and amp?

D


"Sam Carleton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 at 18:12 GMT, Doobie-Doo wrote:

Ok, this is how big of a newbie I am. I have no idea what you
just said there.

What is a 2 or 3 way? That's the type of speaker right? Read
coaxle? It's one channel per speaker correct? What does the
number of watts do per channel? Would one amp be enough for me?

Oh, ok, that is easy to explane. There are three types of car audio
speakers:

Sub woofers -- You said you don't waht one
component -- normally a 2 or 3 speakers (also know as drivers)
full range -- normally all one piece

Full range speakers have both the woofer and tweeter build into one
unit. It is all one peice so all you have to do is hookup the two
wires mount the speaker and you are good to go. Here is a Boston
Acoustic full range speaker:

http://www.bostonacoustics.com/ca_pr...&CategoryID=14

Component speakers come in multiple peices. There are two or three
drivers. In a two driver system (2-way system) there is a woofer
and a tweeter. In a three driver system, there is also a midrange.
Here is an example of a Boston Acoustic component system:

http://www.bostonacoustics.com/ca_pr...&CategoryID=14

You will notice the box that comes with this set. That is the
crossover, it takes the one signle and splits things up so that the
highs go to the tweeter and the lows goto the woofer. The full
range has a crossover, too, it is build into the one unit, though.

The component system will normally sound better, but a lot of cars
come stock with full range speakers so one has to find some place to
mount the tweeter. One always has to find space for the crossover.

In my system, I am going to use a 3-way system in the front, tweeter
and 4" driver in the dashboard and a 6.5" in the door. I am going
to treat it as a 2-way (tweeter & 4") and woofer (6.5") because I am
going to use one amp for the 2-way and another for the woofer. Then
there is going to be one amp for the rear full range speakers, and
finally one amp for the sub woofer.

Now if you count that up, there are four amps. What is an amp?
Well in a stereo, there are two amps, left side amp and right side
amp. So in reality, I need not four, but eight amps! Normally
folks refer to each one of these amps as a "channel" and refer to
the case as an "amp". Thus if you have a 4 channel amp, you have
one box that has four amps. For my system I need two 4-channel
amps, thus two boxes with four amps each.

Then there is WATTS. That is just how folks measure how loud an amp
is. The other poster mentioned a 4x600 WATT amp. That would be 150
watts per channel, but more then likely that is peak power (RMS).
Peak power is how loud it can get for a short period of time.
Normally devide that by two and that is the normal wattage, thus 75
watts.

The real advantage in the larger amp is not how loud it gets, but
having more hump to drive the speakers at a moderate level. I don't
think I could tell the different in loudness from a 50 watt amp and
a 75 watt amp, but all things being the same, the 75 watt amp should
be cleaner sounding because it has more hump at the same volume.
Personally I think that you don't need to exceed 50 watts per
channel. The only reason I am is because the sub woofer and mid
basses (those 6.5" in the door) will need the extra hump to keep up
with the midrange and tweeters.

Hope this helps!

Sam

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 at 19:58 GMT, Doobie-Doo wrote:

Wow! That's great! That clears up so many questions. What
****es me off is that I spent most of yesterday trying to learn
this stuff, but there's no good websites that explain this at a
basic level. Thanks, I appreciate this.

I found these two sites to have a lot of useful info:

http://www.teamrocs.com/
http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/caraudio.htm

I have links to a number of manufactures on my web site:

http://www.miltonstreet.com/~carleton/links.html

So I guess I have to figure out what I can put in my vehicle. I
have a 97 neon (I know..I know...) and I'm not sure what I can fit
in the doors and dash.

Goto http://www.crutchfield.com they will allow you to select your
car and then they will show you the stereo (head unit), and speakers
that fit your car.

In the dash, I'm sure there are 2 tweeters (I can see the little
grills, but no idea how to remove the dash), and I don't know
what's in the door.

Well, there might not be tweeters there. There is a gill on both my
dash and in the windshield piller. I thought the tweeter was in the
piller, but it is also in the dash. The grill on the piller is for
the other system VW puts in the New Beetle that only has a 2-way
system in it.

If your order the stuff from Crutchfile, they will send you the
howto info on how to install everything. Go check it out on their
web site, very cool in my opinion.

So I'm thinking that I should use 2 tweeters in the dash, then two
subs in the doors (if they fit). Does that sound right? or
should I have a midrange up front?

Your have four different ranges of speakers, normally. In order of
lowest to highest:

sub woofer
woofer
mid-range
tweeter

It is VERY common to have systems that only has woofers and
tweeters. It is sort of complicated why I am going with a 3-way
system, but the bottoml line is because that is what is currently
there. There is no need to spend the money, 2-way systems sound
very good!

I have room for two speakers in the back window, so I'll probably
put two mids there. Would that sound good?

I would put a full range speakers in the back, that has both the
woofer and tweeter built into one unit.

I'll probably get an amp then, just a 4 channel for the 2 drivers
and 2 subs. I can probably run the tweeters off the deck to avoid
buying another amp. I have no idea if this sounds idiotic. I'm
just going off the information that I've learned in the last day.

The woofer/tweeter combo will come with the crossover so one amp
will power both that woofer and tweeter. All you will need is one 4
channel amp: Front two components (tweeter/woofer) and back two
full range.

Sam

So I can have a good system without an amp?

D

"The Lizard" wrote in message
...
Doobie-Doo wrote:
Do I really need amps? I just want a decent system. I'm not going to
compete, and I'm not looking to play music for other people as I drive
by.

Amps will allow you to play your system louder with less distortion, but
you don't necessarily need them. Most people are happy with a head + 4,
and a decent amplified sub. Some people need to wake the neighbors up.

This guys post (snipped) is a good example of what I'm talking about.
Granted, I would'nt argue with JL being good stuff, but you may find the
price to be too steep for the benefit. On the other hand, you might want
to buy something more high end than JL.





--
Lizard

teamROCS #007 / Technical Director / Founding Member *res derelicta*
http://www.teamrocs.com/
X-Header-PO: This Line Exists to Violate Usenet Protocol, Disregard

Doobie-Doo wrote:
So I can have a good system without an amp?


That word, "good", is subjective. I've heard quite a few decent sounding
systems that consisted of nothing more than 4 really high quality
speakers installed properly, and a high power headunit. More than that
have had the same plus a small amp driving a sub.

I've heard some really ****ty systems with multi-amp multi-speaker setups.

The bottom line with an amp is how loud do you want to be? Because after
a certain point, you just can't turn your factory radio up and not have
it sound ****ty. Best thing you can do is upgrade your headunit and four
speakers, and try that for a week or so. If you're not happy, add an
amplified subwoofer. After that, consider getting an amplifier for four
speakers for more clarity.

It's all a matter of opinion and taste though. Without a vulcan mind
meld, I can't make this easy. But then, if it was easy, you'd miss out
on the joy and pride of having a system.

--
Lizard

teamROCS #007 / Technical Director / Founding Member *res derelicta*
http://www.teamrocs.com/
X-Header-PO: This Line Exists to Violate Usenet Protocol, Disregard

Well, Sam convinced me to get at least one amp. I don't want any distortion
if I really want to crank it.

D

"The Lizard" wrote in message
...
Doobie-Doo wrote:
So I can have a good system without an amp?


That word, "good", is subjective. I've heard quite a few decent sounding
systems that consisted of nothing more than 4 really high quality
speakers installed properly, and a high power headunit. More than that
have had the same plus a small amp driving a sub.

I've heard some really ****ty systems with multi-amp multi-speaker setups.

The bottom line with an amp is how loud do you want to be? Because after
a certain point, you just can't turn your factory radio up and not have
it sound ****ty. Best thing you can do is upgrade your headunit and four
speakers, and try that for a week or so. If you're not happy, add an
amplified subwoofer. After that, consider getting an amplifier for four
speakers for more clarity.

It's all a matter of opinion and taste though. Without a vulcan mind
meld, I can't make this easy. But then, if it was easy, you'd miss out
on the joy and pride of having a system.

--
Lizard

teamROCS #007 / Technical Director / Founding Member *res derelicta*
http://www.teamrocs.com/
X-Header-PO: This Line Exists to Violate Usenet Protocol, Disregard

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 at 21:18 GMT, The Lizard wrote:

The bottom line with an amp is how loud do you want to be? Because
after a certain point, you just can't turn your factory radio up
and not have it sound ****ty. Best thing you can do is upgrade
your headunit and four speakers, and try that for a week or so. If
you're not happy, add an amplified subwoofer. After that, consider
getting an amplifier for four speakers for more clarity.

First off, you took a shot at me in the last posting, I am going to
let it pass simply because I can tell that you know a lot more about
this stuff then I do...

Enlighten me please...

I know that there are sum sub woofers that have a minimum amp size
because they are so damn big that a small amp simply cannot make
them move. An example of such a beast might be the MTX's RFL
Subwoofer.

It has been my understanding for a while now that independent of
watts, there are some amps with a higher current then others. It
has been my impression that the higher current amps have an easier
time of moving the speakers which result in a cleaner sound. I am
thinking about home audio as much as car audio.

This has always lead me to believe that a 4x200 watt external amp is
going to have a higher current then the say the 4x65 WATT amp in the
Alpine 9815 that I will be getting soon. Because of this, at the
same volume, the 4x200 would sound better. Am I correct or am I
missing something? (Other the the obvious screws missing up stairs,
that is)

Sam

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 at 21:40 GMT, Doobie-Doo wrote:

Goto http://www.crutchfield.com they will allow you to select
your car and then they will show you the stereo (head unit), and
speakers that fit your car.

Ok, I can put 6-3/4" in the doors and 6"X9" in the back. Doesn't
mention tweeters, so I guess there's nothing in the dash.

Guessing is a mistake, when you play the radio, do you hear anything
coming from the dash? It might be that Crutchfield simply does not
bother to mention the tweeter because they are all basically the
same size, 1 inch.

Your have four different ranges of speakers, normally. In order
of lowest to highest:

sub woofer
woofer
mid-range
tweeter

There's a woofer now?

Yes. The Crutchfield Guild "Car Stereo Installation" talks about
the different configurations:

1: 2-way system: Sub woofer and Full Range speaker
20Hz~110Hz for the Sub woofer
110Hz~20,000 Hz for the full range

2: 3-way system: Sub woofer, mid-range, and tweeter
20Hz~110Hz for the Sub woofer
110Hz~3,000 Hz for the mid-range
3,000Hz~20,000 Hz for the tweeter

3: 4-way system: Sub woofer, woofer, mid-range, and tweeter
20Hz~110Hz for the Sub woofer
110Hz~400 Hz for the woofer
400Hz~3,000 Hz for the mid-range
3,000Hz~20,000 Hz for the tweeter

Like I said before, I am also installing a system now. The factory
system that came with my car is pretty nice. It has #3 minus the
sub. Because there is no sub, the woofer goes down to around
50Hz~60Hz. I cannot feel the bass, but I can hear it, unless the
windows are down when I am on the highway.

Crutchfield has a lot of helpful info at:

http://tinyurl.com/fwjc

Ok, so two full range 6" X 9"s in the back. Great! Making some
progress. :-)

Sounds good to me!

I'll probably get an amp then, just a 4 channel for the 2
drivers and 2 subs. I can probably run the tweeters off the
deck to avoid buying another amp. I have no idea if this
sounds idiotic. I'm just going off the information that I've
learned in the last day.

The woofer/tweeter combo will come with the crossover so one amp
will power both that woofer and tweeter. All you will need is
one 4 channel amp: Front two components (tweeter/woofer) and
back two full range.

Good, so just one amp. How much do they go for and how much power
should I be looking at? What if there are no tweeters in the
front? What if I get them built into the speakers?

If you install componant speakers (see this link for an example:
http://tinyurl.com/fwjm ) then you hook the amp upto the crossover
(box in the upper left corner). Then the crossover will have one
set of wires for the woofer and one set for the tweeter. This will
use only one channel of the amp.

If you install full-range speakers (see this link for an example:
http://tinyurl.com/fwjt ). Notice that the tweeter that was in the
lower right of the last link is not dead center of the woofer and
there is no crossover. The crossover is built into this speaker.
Because of this, you simply hook the amp to the speaker and you are
done.

There are a number of advantages in the component speakers. One is
that you can place the tweeters higher up to improve "imaging" (see
http://tinyurl.com/fwk4 for info on imaging). Also the crossover in
the componants are going to be of higher quality. Depending, the
speakers themself can also be better.

Sam

"Sam Carleton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 at 21:40 GMT, Doobie-Doo wrote:

Goto http://www.crutchfield.com they will allow you to select
your car and then they will show you the stereo (head unit), and
speakers that fit your car.

Ok, I can put 6-3/4" in the doors and 6"X9" in the back. Doesn't
mention tweeters, so I guess there's nothing in the dash.

Guessing is a mistake, when you play the radio, do you hear anything
coming from the dash? It might be that Crutchfield simply does not
bother to mention the tweeter because they are all basically the
same size, 1 inch.


I'm pretty sure I hear something in the dash. I can't check now as the car
is in the shop.


Your have four different ranges of speakers, normally. In order
of lowest to highest:

sub woofer
woofer
mid-range
tweeter

There's a woofer now?

Yes. The Crutchfield Guild "Car Stereo Installation" talks about
the different configurations:

1: 2-way system: Sub woofer and Full Range speaker
20Hz~110Hz for the Sub woofer
110Hz~20,000 Hz for the full range

2: 3-way system: Sub woofer, mid-range, and tweeter
20Hz~110Hz for the Sub woofer
110Hz~3,000 Hz for the mid-range
3,000Hz~20,000 Hz for the tweeter

3: 4-way system: Sub woofer, woofer, mid-range, and tweeter
20Hz~110Hz for the Sub woofer
110Hz~400 Hz for the woofer
400Hz~3,000 Hz for the mid-range
3,000Hz~20,000 Hz for the tweeter

I don't understand why all but #3 have mids. You think that would be the
most important speaker since it has the range which the human ears can hear
most easily.


Like I said before, I am also installing a system now. The factory
system that came with my car is pretty nice. It has #3 minus the
sub. Because there is no sub, the woofer goes down to around
50Hz~60Hz. I cannot feel the bass, but I can hear it, unless the
windows are down when I am on the highway.

Crutchfield has a lot of helpful info at:

http://tinyurl.com/fwjc

Cool site! I have some reading to do.


Ok, so two full range 6" X 9"s in the back. Great! Making some
progress. :-)

Sounds good to me!

I'll probably get an amp then, just a 4 channel for the 2
drivers and 2 subs. I can probably run the tweeters off the
deck to avoid buying another amp. I have no idea if this
sounds idiotic. I'm just going off the information that I've
learned in the last day.

The woofer/tweeter combo will come with the crossover so one amp
will power both that woofer and tweeter. All you will need is
one 4 channel amp: Front two components (tweeter/woofer) and
back two full range.

Good, so just one amp. How much do they go for and how much power
should I be looking at? What if there are no tweeters in the
front? What if I get them built into the speakers?

If you install componant speakers (see this link for an example:
http://tinyurl.com/fwjm ) then you hook the amp upto the crossover
(box in the upper left corner). Then the crossover will have one
set of wires for the woofer and one set for the tweeter. This will
use only one channel of the amp.


There's two boxes, so does that mean there are two crossovers for each set
of woofer and tweeter?

If you install full-range speakers (see this link for an example:
http://tinyurl.com/fwjt ). Notice that the tweeter that was in the
lower right of the last link is not dead center of the woofer and
there is no crossover. The crossover is built into this speaker.
Because of this, you simply hook the amp to the speaker and you are
done.

It looks dead centre to me. I like these. They look easy! :-)


There are a number of advantages in the component speakers. One is
that you can place the tweeters higher up to improve "imaging" (see
http://tinyurl.com/fwk4 for info on imaging). Also the crossover in
the componants are going to be of higher quality. Depending, the
speakers themself can also be better.

Well, I guess it all depends now on wether or not I have tweeters in the
dash. I still feel odd having a system with no mids. Just woofers and
tweeters. How would that sound differently from a 4-way system?


Sam

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 at 14:31 GMT, Doobie-Doo wrote:

Yes. The Crutchfield Guild "Car Stereo Installation" talks about
the different configurations:

1: 2-way system: Sub woofer and Full Range speaker
20Hz~110Hz for the Sub woofer
110Hz~20,000 Hz for the full range

2: 3-way system: Sub woofer, mid-range, and tweeter
20Hz~110Hz for the Sub woofer
110Hz~3,000 Hz for the mid-range
3,000Hz~20,000 Hz for the tweeter

3: 4-way system: Sub woofer, woofer, mid-range, and tweeter
20Hz~110Hz for the Sub woofer
110Hz~400 Hz for the woofer
400Hz~3,000 Hz for the mid-range
3,000Hz~20,000 Hz for the tweeter

I don't understand why all but #3 have mids. You think that would
be the most important speaker since it has the range which the
human ears can hear most easily.

Well, make note that the min-range (or woofer) in #2 has the same
range as both the woofer and mid-range in #3. A lot of folks like
to go with 2-way's as not to break up the vocals between two
speakers. I am in agreement with that attitude which is why I will
drive my 4" mid-ranges down to about 150Hz~200Hz while driving the
woofers from 60Hz~80Hz to 200Hz~400Hz. I want the voices on my
dash, for the most part. I might keep the woofer cut back real far
(below 200Hz) so that they are really just a "midbass" driver. I
won't know until the system is installed and I am tweeking it.

If I did not have mids on the dash, I would simply go with a 2-way
system, it is easier to work with then what I am doing.

If you install componant speakers (see this link for an example:
http://tinyurl.com/fwjm ) then you hook the amp upto the
crossover (box in the upper left corner). Then the crossover
will have one set of wires for the woofer and one set for the
tweeter. This will use only one channel of the amp.


There's two boxes, so does that mean there are two crossovers for
each set of woofer and tweeter?

Yes, one box for the left and one for the right side speakers.

If you install full-range speakers (see this link for an example:
http://tinyurl.com/fwjt ). Notice that the tweeter that was in
the lower right of the last link is not dead center of the woofer
and there is no crossover. The crossover is built into this
speaker. Because of this, you simply hook the amp to the speaker
and you are done.

It looks dead centre to me. I like these. They look easy! :-)

That is one of the advantages to full-range speakers, they have
everything in one package, they are much easier to install


There are a number of advantages in the component speakers. One
is that you can place the tweeters higher up to improve "imaging"
(see http://tinyurl.com/fwk4 for info on imaging). Also the
crossover in the componants are going to be of higher quality.
Depending, the speakers themself can also be better.

Well, I guess it all depends now on wether or not I have tweeters
in the dash. I still feel odd having a system with no mids. Just
woofers and tweeters. How would that sound differently from a
4-way system?

Oh, I don't think you would really miss them, all that much.

The sole reason I am putting in mids in my system is because of what
is already there... I am upgrading in phases, first speakers, then
amps and old head unit (stereo), and finally I will get a new head
unit. The problem I am faced with is the fact that my stock system
already has an external amp that is a small 8x200 watt system (25
watts across 8 channels). Two channels for the rear midranges, two
channels for the front woofers, two for the front mid ranges, and
the final two for the tweeters. The crossover that is spliting all
this stuff up is build into the amp! Considering the fact that I am
only upgrading speakers, I HAVE to use a 3-way system in the front
if I am going to use the factory amp.

Sam

Ok, thanks Sam. I think I have a good idea of what I want. So I'm going to
get it tomorrow morning. Thanks for all of your input. I talked to my
buddy who works at an international stereo and he told me to get the Alpine
9807. What do you think of that head?

D

"Sam Carleton" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 at 14:31 GMT, Doobie-Doo wrote:

Yes. The Crutchfield Guild "Car Stereo Installation" talks about
the different configurations:

1: 2-way system: Sub woofer and Full Range speaker
20Hz~110Hz for the Sub woofer
110Hz~20,000 Hz for the full range

2: 3-way system: Sub woofer, mid-range, and tweeter
20Hz~110Hz for the Sub woofer
110Hz~3,000 Hz for the mid-range
3,000Hz~20,000 Hz for the tweeter

3: 4-way system: Sub woofer, woofer, mid-range, and tweeter
20Hz~110Hz for the Sub woofer
110Hz~400 Hz for the woofer
400Hz~3,000 Hz for the mid-range
3,000Hz~20,000 Hz for the tweeter

I don't understand why all but #3 have mids. You think that would
be the most important speaker since it has the range which the
human ears can hear most easily.

Well, make note that the min-range (or woofer) in #2 has the same
range as both the woofer and mid-range in #3. A lot of folks like
to go with 2-way's as not to break up the vocals between two
speakers. I am in agreement with that attitude which is why I will
drive my 4" mid-ranges down to about 150Hz~200Hz while driving the
woofers from 60Hz~80Hz to 200Hz~400Hz. I want the voices on my
dash, for the most part. I might keep the woofer cut back real far
(below 200Hz) so that they are really just a "midbass" driver. I
won't know until the system is installed and I am tweeking it.

If I did not have mids on the dash, I would simply go with a 2-way
system, it is easier to work with then what I am doing.

If you install componant speakers (see this link for an example:
http://tinyurl.com/fwjm ) then you hook the amp upto the
crossover (box in the upper left corner). Then the crossover
will have one set of wires for the woofer and one set for the
tweeter. This will use only one channel of the amp.


There's two boxes, so does that mean there are two crossovers for
each set of woofer and tweeter?

Yes, one box for the left and one for the right side speakers.

If you install full-range speakers (see this link for an example:
http://tinyurl.com/fwjt ). Notice that the tweeter that was in
the lower right of the last link is not dead center of the woofer
and there is no crossover. The crossover is built into this
speaker. Because of this, you simply hook the amp to the speaker
and you are done.

It looks dead centre to me. I like these. They look easy! :-)

That is one of the advantages to full-range speakers, they have
everything in one package, they are much easier to install


There are a number of advantages in the component speakers. One
is that you can place the tweeters higher up to improve "imaging"
(see http://tinyurl.com/fwk4 for info on imaging). Also the
crossover in the componants are going to be of higher quality.
Depending, the speakers themself can also be better.

Well, I guess it all depends now on wether or not I have tweeters
in the dash. I still feel odd having a system with no mids. Just
woofers and tweeters. How would that sound differently from a
4-way system?

Oh, I don't think you would really miss them, all that much.

The sole reason I am putting in mids in my system is because of what
is already there... I am upgrading in phases, first speakers, then
amps and old head unit (stereo), and finally I will get a new head
unit. The problem I am faced with is the fact that my stock system
already has an external amp that is a small 8x200 watt system (25
watts across 8 channels). Two channels for the rear midranges, two
channels for the front woofers, two for the front mid ranges, and
the final two for the tweeters. The crossover that is spliting all
this stuff up is build into the amp! Considering the fact that I am
only upgrading speakers, I HAVE to use a 3-way system in the front
if I am going to use the factory amp.

Sam