the problem with that is, something like 1 guy out of 500 actually knows
what a "good ground" is, how to connect to it, much less how to test for
it....

JD

Phil Sharkey wrote:

Almost by definition it makes no difference, as long as they are all
good grounds.

Best,

Phil

Not only do I in fact know all of those things, I also know better than
to waste my time arguing with you about it.

JD
nice try though

Eddie Runner wrote:

even durbin doesnt know...
ha ha ha

John Durbin wrote:



the problem with that is, something like 1 guy out of 500 actually knows
what a "good ground" is, how to connect to it, much less how to test for
it....

JD

Phil Sharkey wrote:



Almost by definition it makes no difference, as long as they are all
good grounds.

Best,

Phil

Umm, a good ground is actually one where the resistance from the negative
terminal of the amp to the negative terminal of the battery is less than
0.2ohm. You can test this with any multimeter..

Ben Dennis
"John Durbin" wrote in message:
Not only do I in fact know all of those things, I also know better than to
waste my time arguing with you about it.

JD
nice try though

Eddie Runner wrote:

even durbin doesnt know...
ha ha ha

John Durbin wrote:


the problem with that is, something like 1 guy out of 500 actually knows
what a "good ground" is, how to connect to it, much less how to test for
it....

JD

Phil Sharkey wrote:


Almost by definition it makes no difference, as long as they are all
good grounds.

Best,

Phil

One and all.

There always seems to be an argument regarding "good grounding" in a
vehicle. There really isn't a "ground" in a vehicles electrical system. We
do however have electrical return paths that terminate at the batteries
negative terminal. Check out your amp power end panel and/or your manual.
Most often it is labeled "B-". We just simply refer to this as "ground" as
a convenience.

There is also no hard and fast rule that tells us how much return path
resistance is too much. It all depends upon the maxumum instantaneous
current draw that an amplifier requires. Ideally the return path resistance
should be zero. That is not possible with modern day wiring unless we are
talking about superconductors. Even .2 Ohm is too much for a current
hungry amplifier!! In fact, most of todays digital multimeters cannot even
measure with certainty that low. To accurately and reliably measure
resistance this low, one needs a milli or micro ohmmeter. Very expensive.

A better method is to measure the voltage drop between the battery (-)
terminal and your amplifiers (-) terminal. Typically, you would want this
to be less then 1 volt when your amplifier is drawing its maximum current.
Say, during a sustained low frequency note. Iin the old days, a drop of .25
Volts was generally considered good. The same thing applies for the B+
wiring as well. You do not want to starve either side of the amplifiers
supply lines.

If, by using your vehicle's chassis as the amplifier return path and you
measure little voltage drop, then by all means use the chassis. Conversely,
if by using your vehicle's chassis as the return path and you measure an
excessive voltage drop, then you should consider using a large return wire
to your battery from your amplifier(s). Either way, no real harm will come
to the amplifiers. You, might however hear your amplifiers clipping early
and consequently sounding distorted if your amplifiers power supply is
choked during musical periods of high intensity sound. It all depends on
the type of amplifier and its regulation scheme. No two installations are
exactly alike. Good install = Good sound.

BTW, all you guys that live where they salt the roads should periodically
check the resistance in your amplifiers supply lines. Rust is a very poor
conductor of electricity.

JD any thoughts or additions?

Robbo

"Warren" wrote in message
...
Umm, a good ground is actually one where the resistance from the negative
terminal of the amp to the negative terminal of the battery is less than
0.2ohm. You can test this with any multimeter..

Ben Dennis
"John Durbin" wrote in message:
Not only do I in fact know all of those things, I also know better than to
waste my time arguing with you about it.

JD
nice try though

Eddie Runner wrote:

even durbin doesnt know...
ha ha ha

John Durbin wrote:


the problem with that is, something like 1 guy out of 500 actually knows
what a "good ground" is, how to connect to it, much less how to test for
it....

JD

Phil Sharkey wrote:


Almost by definition it makes no difference, as long as they are all
good grounds.

Best,

Phil

Only that personally I would always use chassis ground path as a first
choice, and supplement that with an extra run of heavy gauge cable if
the chassis proves inadequate. I don't see any logical way that the
cable by itself will ever be a better choice than one of these two methods.

JD

Robbo wrote:

One and all.

There always seems to be an argument regarding "good grounding" in a
vehicle. There really isn't a "ground" in a vehicles electrical system. We
do however have electrical return paths that terminate at the batteries
negative terminal. Check out your amp power end panel and/or your manual.
Most often it is labeled "B-". We just simply refer to this as "ground" as
a convenience.

There is also no hard and fast rule that tells us how much return path
resistance is too much. It all depends upon the maxumum instantaneous
current draw that an amplifier requires. Ideally the return path resistance
should be zero. That is not possible with modern day wiring unless we are
talking about superconductors. Even .2 Ohm is too much for a current
hungry amplifier!! In fact, most of todays digital multimeters cannot even
measure with certainty that low. To accurately and reliably measure
resistance this low, one needs a milli or micro ohmmeter. Very expensive.

A better method is to measure the voltage drop between the battery (-)
terminal and your amplifiers (-) terminal. Typically, you would want this
to be less then 1 volt when your amplifier is drawing its maximum current.
Say, during a sustained low frequency note. Iin the old days, a drop of .25
Volts was generally considered good. The same thing applies for the B+
wiring as well. You do not want to starve either side of the amplifiers
supply lines.

If, by using your vehicle's chassis as the amplifier return path and you
measure little voltage drop, then by all means use the chassis. Conversely,
if by using your vehicle's chassis as the return path and you measure an
excessive voltage drop, then you should consider using a large return wire
to your battery from your amplifier(s). Either way, no real harm will come
to the amplifiers. You, might however hear your amplifiers clipping early
and consequently sounding distorted if your amplifiers power supply is
choked during musical periods of high intensity sound. It all depends on
the type of amplifier and its regulation scheme. No two installations are
exactly alike. Good install = Good sound.

BTW, all you guys that live where they salt the roads should periodically
check the resistance in your amplifiers supply lines. Rust is a very poor
conductor of electricity.

JD any thoughts or additions?

Robbo

"Warren" wrote in message
. ..


Umm, a good ground is actually one where the resistance from the negative
terminal of the amp to the negative terminal of the battery is less than
0.2ohm. You can test this with any multimeter..

Ben Dennis
"John Durbin" wrote in message:
Not only do I in fact know all of those things, I also know better than to
waste my time arguing with you about it.

JD
nice try though

Eddie Runner wrote:

even durbin doesnt know...
ha ha ha

John Durbin wrote:


the problem with that is, something like 1 guy out of 500 actually knows
what a "good ground" is, how to connect to it, much less how to test for
it....

JD

Phil Sharkey wrote:


Almost by definition it makes no difference, as long as they are all
good grounds.

Best,

Phil

yeah... what he said....

FHLH
"John Durbin" wrote in message
. ..
Only that personally I would always use chassis ground path as a first
choice, and supplement that with an extra run of heavy gauge cable if the
chassis proves inadequate. I don't see any logical way that the cable by
itself will ever be a better choice than one of these two methods.

JD

Robbo wrote:

One and all.

There always seems to be an argument regarding "good grounding" in a
vehicle. There really isn't a "ground" in a vehicles electrical system. We
do however have electrical return paths that terminate at the batteries
negative terminal. Check out your amp power end panel and/or your manual.
Most often it is labeled "B-". We just simply refer to this as "ground" as
a convenience.

There is also no hard and fast rule that tells us how much return path
resistance is too much. It all depends upon the maxumum instantaneous
current draw that an amplifier requires. Ideally the return path resistance
should be zero. That is not possible with modern day wiring unless we are
talking about superconductors. Even .2 Ohm is too much for a current
hungry amplifier!! In fact, most of todays digital multimeters cannot even
measure with certainty that low. To accurately and reliably measure
resistance this low, one needs a milli or micro ohmmeter. Very expensive.

A better method is to measure the voltage drop between the battery (-)
terminal and your amplifiers (-) terminal. Typically, you would want this
to be less then 1 volt when your amplifier is drawing its maximum current.
Say, during a sustained low frequency note. Iin the old days, a drop of .25
Volts was generally considered good. The same thing applies for the B+
wiring as well. You do not want to starve either side of the amplifiers
supply lines.

If, by using your vehicle's chassis as the amplifier return path and you
measure little voltage drop, then by all means use the chassis. Conversely,
if by using your vehicle's chassis as the return path and you measure an
excessive voltage drop, then you should consider using a large return wire
to your battery from your amplifier(s). Either way, no real harm will come
to the amplifiers. You, might however hear your amplifiers clipping early
and consequently sounding distorted if your amplifiers power supply is
choked during musical periods of high intensity sound. It all depends on
the type of amplifier and its regulation scheme. No two installations are
exactly alike. Good install = Good sound.

BTW, all you guys that live where they salt the roads should periodically
check the resistance in your amplifiers supply lines. Rust is a very poor
conductor of electricity.

JD any thoughts or additions?

Robbo

"Warren" wrote in message
...

Umm, a good ground is actually one where the resistance from the negative
terminal of the amp to the negative terminal of the battery is less than
0.2ohm. You can test this with any multimeter..

Ben Dennis
"John Durbin" wrote in message:
Not only do I in fact know all of those things, I also know better than to
waste my time arguing with you about it.

JD
nice try though

Eddie Runner wrote:

even durbin doesnt know...
ha ha ha

John Durbin wrote:


the problem with that is, something like 1 guy out of 500 actually knows
what a "good ground" is, how to connect to it, much less how to test for
it....

JD

Phil Sharkey wrote:


Almost by definition it makes no difference, as long as they are all
good grounds.

Best,

Phil