[Gary Eickmeier]

I have a problem that even I can't solve. It's an impossible situation, yet
here it is.

I recorded my concert band yesterday. I took the sound of the soloist singer
off the sound board by using a little extra recorder and a patch cord. The
take out was a mono phone jack split to a stereo input to my recorder. So I
am recording a mono signal into both tracks, OK?

So I come home to edit this, and I get no sound on playback on the computer.
I drag it into Audition so that I can see the waveform, and sure enough a
strong signal was recorded. So hey, play it back from the timeline in
Audition, and.... still nothing! A big fat signal! The stereo track from the
main recorder plays just fine, but this mono track doesn't even squeak!

So by now you are thinking of a phase reversal, right? So I look at the
signal on screen and magnify the crap out of it and both channels are in
phase just fine! It HAS to have sound! I tried reversing the phase
(polarity) of one channel anyway, but when I did that, guess what happened?
The signal on screen went from this big fat signal to two straight lines -
no signal at all! Undo the phase reversal and back come the waveforms!

If I play just one of the channels, I get the sound just fine, but I simply
cannot conceive what is going on here. I would be ever so grateful if
someone out there could supply me with what is happening. I even tried the
Channel Mixer function and told it to "Duplicate Left Channel" in both
channels, but it did not work!

HELP!

Gary Eickmeier

[Dieter Michel]

Hi Gary,

is it possible that you somehow have a polarity reversal
in the output of your processing chain? That would explain
why you can see both stereo channels in phase (sorry: polarity)
but still hear nothing on your mono sum.

I tried reversing the phase
(polarity) of one channel anyway, but when I did that, guess what happened?
The signal on screen went from this big fat signal to two straight lines -
no signal at all! Undo the phase reversal and back come the waveforms!

Which signal changed? A mono sum? A polarity reversal on one
of the mono channels should change the polaryty on that channel,
not make both stereo signals disappear. Just to make su Do I
misunderstand what channels you are looking at on the screen?

Best regards

Dieter Michel

[Gary Eickmeier]

Dieter Michel wrote:
Hi Gary,

is it possible that you somehow have a polarity reversal
in the output of your processing chain? That would explain
why you can see both stereo channels in phase (sorry: polarity)
but still hear nothing on your mono sum.

I tried reversing the phase
(polarity) of one channel anyway, but when I did that, guess what
happened? The signal on screen went from this big fat signal to two
straight lines - no signal at all! Undo the phase reversal and back
come the waveforms!

Which signal changed? A mono sum? A polarity reversal on one
of the mono channels should change the polaryty on that channel,
not make both stereo signals disappear. Just to make su Do I
misunderstand what channels you are looking at on the screen?

Best regards

Dieter Michel

Hi Dieter -

I don't know what you are assuming, so just let me tell you if the above
wasn't clear or complete enough. In Audition you are looking at both
channels, one above the other on the screen. They are identical for my
example - two of the same mono channel. They are in polarity, but no sound
is output, even tho each channel individually has fine sound. But even if I
Duplicate Left into both channels, there is no output.

Reversing phase in one of them creates an on-screen display that is two flat
lines.

There must be a phase reversal somewhere in this chain, I just can't figure
out where.

Gary Eickmeier

[mcp6453[_2_]]

On 4/8/2013 7:18 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Dieter Michel wrote:
Hi Gary,

is it possible that you somehow have a polarity reversal
in the output of your processing chain? That would explain
why you can see both stereo channels in phase (sorry: polarity)
but still hear nothing on your mono sum.

I tried reversing the phase
(polarity) of one channel anyway, but when I did that, guess what
happened? The signal on screen went from this big fat signal to two
straight lines - no signal at all! Undo the phase reversal and back
come the waveforms!

Which signal changed? A mono sum? A polarity reversal on one
of the mono channels should change the polaryty on that channel,
not make both stereo signals disappear. Just to make su Do I
misunderstand what channels you are looking at on the screen?

Best regards

Dieter Michel

Hi Dieter -

I don't know what you are assuming, so just let me tell you if the above
wasn't clear or complete enough. In Audition you are looking at both
channels, one above the other on the screen. They are identical for my
example - two of the same mono channel. They are in polarity, but no sound
is output, even tho each channel individually has fine sound. But even if I
Duplicate Left into both channels, there is no output.

Reversing phase in one of them creates an on-screen display that is two flat
lines.

There must be a phase reversal somewhere in this chain, I just can't figure
out where.

Do you get the same result if you open the file in Audacity (or another editing
program?)

[Gary Eickmeier]

mcp6453 wrote:


Do you get the same result if you open the file in Audacity (or
another editing program?)

Will have to get back to you after work today. In the meantime, I can hear
the output on headphone plugged into the recorder, and there was fine
monitoring during the session when I listened as we recorded. There is good
sound on the recorder, in mono, in phase in both channels, but in editing
something VERY strange happening.

Gary Eickmeier

[Luxey]

Set bit depth and sampling freq in your PC application, or resample recording to match.

[Scott Dorsey]

Gary Eickmeier wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:

Do you get the same result if you open the file in Audacity (or
another editing program?)

Will have to get back to you after work today. In the meantime, I can hear
the output on headphone plugged into the recorder, and there was fine
monitoring during the session when I listened as we recorded. There is good
sound on the recorder, in mono, in phase in both channels, but in editing
something VERY strange happening.

First of all, on most of those DAW packages you are seeing only the waveform
envelope, not the waveform itself, so drilling down and trying to match phase
is problematic.

Secondly, what has happened almost certainly is that you have lost the ground
connection on the unbalanced outputs of your editing system... so what you are
hearing in the monitors is the difference between the two channels, out of
phase.

Play a pop music record and you should hear the vocals drop out. Also you
will hear the sound coming from the two speakers instead of from the center.
--scott



--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Tom McCreadie]

So I come home to edit this, and I get no sound on playback on the computer.
I drag it into Audition so that I can see the waveform, and sure enough a
strong signal was recorded. So hey, play it back from the timeline in
Audition, and.... still nothing! A big fat signal! The stereo track from the
main recorder plays just fine, but this mono track doesn't even squeak!

Gary, just to be clear:

(a) you loaded your main stereo wav file from your primary location-recorder
into Audition (in Edit mode) on your pc. When you played that back through your
pc's soundcard to your headphones it sounded fine - and was clearly still
stereo, not mono? Also. that sounded the same as a direct playback from your
location-recorder? (maybe (laptop) pc/Audition was your location-recorder?)

(b) you loaded your 'stereo' (= dual mono) wav file from your secondary
location-recorder into Audition Edit mode on the pc. You could see two fat
waveforms, of identical appearance, on the respective L- and R channels. But
when you did a straight playback from Audition Edit mode, you heard no sound
from the headphones.

Headphone wiring OK? You got the same outcome via other monitor speakers?
(And that mono Y- splitter was wired OK?

So by now you are thinking of a phase reversal, right? So I look at the
signal on screen and magnify the crap out of it and both channels are in
phase just fine!

How exactly did "'magnifying the crap out of it" (zooming in on the timeline?)
help you to decide on the polarity?

It HAS to have sound! I tried reversing the phase
(polarity) of one channel anyway, but when I did that, guess what happened?
The signal on screen went from this big fat signal to two straight lines -
no signal at all! Undo the phase reversal and back come the waveforms!

That is, one big fat signal per channel became one straight line per channel?

What specific steps did you take in Audition Edit mode to reverse the polarity
of one channel? (e.g. new L = -100%L, 0%R ; new R = 0%L, +100%R)

If I play just one of the channels, I get the sound just fine, but I simply
cannot conceive what is going on here.

Do you hear anything on playback of your rogue channels after having summed them
to mono via the Audition Channel Mixer? (new L = 50%L + 50%R; new R = 50%L +
50%R)

I even tried the Channel Mixer function and told it to "Duplicate Left Channel" in both
channels, but it did not work!

Please re-check that the 'command algebra' of Audition's mixer channel Preset is
actually doing what its Preset Title states. Thus, "Duplicate left channel"
should be: new L = +100%L, 0%R; new R = +100%L, 0%R. Indeed, check the algebra
integrity of all the presets you have been using. Believe me, it is very easy to
have opened a preset in the past, fiddled around with the numbers, then
inadvertently over-written it into the corrupted state. Been there, done that.
:-)

You may get some further insights by loading your stereo- and dual-mono tracks
into Audition Multitrack mode', then do test bounces to a fresh track while
playing with various channel mixing and panning scenario's.

[Nil]

On 08 Apr 2013, "Gary Eickmeier" wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

So I come home to edit this, and I get no sound on playback on the
computer. I drag it into Audition so that I can see the waveform,
and sure enough a strong signal was recorded. So hey, play it back
from the timeline in Audition, and.... still nothing! A big fat
signal! The stereo track from the main recorder plays just fine,
but this mono track doesn't even squeak!

So by now you are thinking of a phase reversal, right? So I look
at the signal on screen and magnify the crap out of it and both
channels are in phase just fine! It HAS to have sound! I tried
reversing the phase (polarity) of one channel anyway, but when I
did that, guess what happened? The signal on screen went from this
big fat signal to two straight lines - no signal at all! Undo the
phase reversal and back come the waveforms!

If I play just one of the channels, I get the sound just fine, but
I simply cannot conceive what is going on here. I would be ever so
grateful if someone out there could supply me with what is
happening. I even tried the Channel Mixer function and told it to
"Duplicate Left Channel" in both channels, but it did not work!

You don't say what version of Audition you use or what bitrate the
files are at or what version of Windows you use, but this reminds me of
an issue I encountered a while back.

In my case, I had used Audition 1.5 to convert a 32-bit 2-channel file
to a 32-bit mono single-channel file, and was surprised to find that
when played back through Audition, I could only hear sound from my left
monitor. Turned out the solution had to do with Audition 1.5's flaky
handling of Windows WDM sound interface. The solution was to disable
Audition's "Try as WDM" option in Device Properties.

Your situation isn't the same as mine, but maybe it's related to the
same Audition bug.

My other suggestion is to convert your dual-channel file to a single-
channel. If I understand your description, two aren't necessary, and
this would eliminate the possibility of channels canceling each other
out.

[swanny]

On 8/04/2013 4:52 PM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
I have a problem that even I can't solve. It's an impossible situation, yet
here it is.

I recorded my concert band yesterday. I took the sound of the soloist singer
off the sound board by using a little extra recorder and a patch cord. The
take out was a mono phone jack split to a stereo input to my recorder. So I
am recording a mono signal into both tracks, OK?

So I come home to edit this, and I get no sound on playback on the computer.
I drag it into Audition so that I can see the waveform, and sure enough a
strong signal was recorded. So hey, play it back from the timeline in
Audition, and.... still nothing! A big fat signal! The stereo track from the
main recorder plays just fine, but this mono track doesn't even squeak!

So by now you are thinking of a phase reversal, right? So I look at the
signal on screen and magnify the crap out of it and both channels are in
phase just fine! It HAS to have sound! I tried reversing the phase
(polarity) of one channel anyway, but when I did that, guess what happened?
The signal on screen went from this big fat signal to two straight lines -
no signal at all! Undo the phase reversal and back come the waveforms!

If I play just one of the channels, I get the sound just fine, but I simply
cannot conceive what is going on here. I would be ever so grateful if
someone out there could supply me with what is happening. I even tried the
Channel Mixer function and told it to "Duplicate Left Channel" in both
channels, but it did not work!

HELP!

Gary Eickmeier



What does the pan control do to the output?

[Gary Eickmeier]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:

Do you get the same result if you open the file in Audacity (or
another editing program?)

Will have to get back to you after work today. In the meantime, I
can hear the output on headphone plugged into the recorder, and
there was fine monitoring during the session when I listened as we
recorded. There is good sound on the recorder, in mono, in phase in
both channels, but in editing something VERY strange happening.

First of all, on most of those DAW packages you are seeing only the
waveform envelope, not the waveform itself, so drilling down and
trying to match phase is problematic.

Secondly, what has happened almost certainly is that you have lost
the ground connection on the unbalanced outputs of your editing
system... so what you are hearing in the monitors is the difference
between the two channels, out of phase.

Play a pop music record and you should hear the vocals drop out.
Also you will hear the sound coming from the two speakers instead of
from the center. --scott

That is pretty close to what I think happened. I have solved most of it,
but there is still a problem. Let me explain.

I downloaded the files to the computer
at work, and they played normally. At home, on the problem computer, I know
everything is OK in Audition, because it is trying its heart out to play
audio, the meters bouncing and showing that I should be hearing stuff, but I
don't.

Conclusion - the wiring of my computer's output is screwed up - out of phase
somehow. I don't know how this can happen, but it clears up a few mysteries
for me in the sound department! You see, I didn't detect this situation
before, because I am always doing stereo in Audition, so there was always
some signal because there was always some difference between channels. But
when I tried to play some mono, shezam, no diff between channels = no output
to the speakers.

The phase problem has to be at the amplifier, because speakers wired out of
phase just sound funky, but still put out plenty of sound. But if the leads
from the sound card to the amp are out of phase, then a mono signal would
put a perfect null into the amplifier!

Just got to do a little hands and knees duty now to find what the hell. Will
let y'all know how it happened.

Gary

OK I am done for the time being, and I got sound out of the speakers now,
but still have a problem at the headphones. The main culprit was a Y cord
out of the sound card that was used to split the signal to two different
speaker/amp aystems. I didn't think that would be a problem when I did it,
but apparently the Y cord is causing some grounding or phase reversal error,
so I de-commissioned one set of speakers and now I have speaker sound but
not headphone output.

So what the hell? A good, healthy sound coming out of the computer and heard
on my speakers just fine. Then plug in a headphone into the same system, and
no sound. The speaker system is a Logitech cheap 5.1 system, and the
headphone output is on the right speaker, where the volume knob and control
system are.

I'm talking about just the mono track here - the stereo sound comes out fine
on both the speakers and the headphones.

Gary Eickmeier

[Gary Eickmeier]

Tom McCreadie wrote:

How exactly did "'magnifying the crap out of it" (zooming in on the
timeline?) help you to decide on the polarity?

Hi Tom -

Yes, most of your assumptions above were right and I responded to Scott with
an update.

But to answer your question above, obviously if you magnify a waveform
enough you can see if it is in phase with another duplicate one. If the two
waveforms are clones of each other, in phase. If the hills and valleys are
opposite each other, out of phase (polarity).

What specific steps did you take in Audition Edit mode to reverse the
polarity of one channel? (e.g. new L = -100%L, 0%R ; new R = 0%L,
+100%R)

There is a function called invert, I believe. So I highlight one channel and
invert it.

Do you hear anything on playback of your rogue channels after having
summed them to mono via the Audition Channel Mixer? (new L = 50%L +
50%R; new R = 50%L + 50%R)

I even tried the Channel Mixer function and told it to "Duplicate
Left Channel" in both channels, but it did not work!

Please re-check that the 'command algebra' of Audition's mixer
channel Preset is actually doing what its Preset Title states. Thus,
"Duplicate left channel" should be: new L = +100%L, 0%R; new R =
+100%L, 0%R. Indeed, check the algebra integrity of all the presets
you have been using. Believe me, it is very easy to have opened a
preset in the past, fiddled around with the numbers, then
inadvertently over-written it into the corrupted state. Been there,
done that. :-)

You may get some further insights by loading your stereo- and
dual-mono tracks into Audition Multitrack mode', then do test bounces
to a fresh track while playing with various channel mixing and
panning scenario's.

Same result, same problem, but I am getting closer!

Thanks to all for now,

Gary Eickmeier

[Bill[_20_]]

If this is Audition 1.5 (or earlier) I would look at whether "Mono (Edit
view only)" in Device Properties was ticked. It can silence an out of
phase signal.
--
Bill

[Scott Dorsey]

Gary Eickmeier wrote:

The phase problem has to be at the amplifier, because speakers wired out of
phase just sound funky, but still put out plenty of sound. But if the leads
from the sound card to the amp are out of phase, then a mono signal would
put a perfect null into the amplifier!

Let me guess, you have a 3.5mm jack on the output of the soundcard....
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Tom McCreadie]

OK I am done for the time being, and I got sound out of the speakers now,
but still have a problem at the headphones. The main culprit was a Y cord
out of the sound card that was used to split the signal to two different
speaker/amp aystems. I didn't think that would be a problem when I did it,
but apparently the Y cord is causing some grounding or phase reversal error,
so I de-commissioned one set of speakers and now I have speaker sound but
not headphone output.

Still some questions: Exactly what kind of "Y cord" were you using to come out
of your computer sound card?

Was it a 'splitter'. where its (1/4"or 1/8") trs phone plug splits out the
signal into unbalanced Left channel (from tip & sleeve) and Right channel (from
ring & sleeve), these unbalanced signals getting passed along via rca, or
1/4"mono (ts) plugs or 1/8" mono (ts) miniplugs?

Or was it actually a 'duplicator', where the stereol trs signal is converted
into _two_ stereol trs signals, probably with contraplug termination? What's
the input connector type on the Logitec amp/speaker?

And was this the same Y cord used at the recording location? . That may have
been inappropriate for the soundboard, which could have been outputting a
balanced mono vocal signal (tip +ve, ring -ve, sleeve ground).
--
Tom McCreadie

Live at The London Palindrome - ABBA

[Mike Rivers]

On 4/8/2013 7:18 AM, Gary Eickmeier wrote:

I don't know what you are assuming, so just let me tell you if the above
wasn't clear or complete enough. In Audition you are looking at both
channels, one above the other on the screen. They are identical for my
example - two of the same mono channel. They are in polarity, but no sound
is output, even tho each channel individually has fine sound. But even if I
Duplicate Left into both channels, there is no output.

Reversing phase in one of them creates an on-screen display that is two flat
lines.

Inverting the polarity of one of the two channels in the stereo pair
makes both of them change to straight lines? I've never heard of such a
thing.

Did you check the mixer in Audition carefullly? Are you sure you don't
have the output level all the way down? Can you hear the track if you
set the pan fully left or fullly right?

Does Audition have a convenient way to split a stereo track into two
mono tracks? That might give you some more insight.



--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without
a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be
operated without a passing knowledge of audio" - John Watkinson

Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

[Tom McCreadie]

Does Audition have a convenient way to split a stereo track into two
mono tracks? That might give you some more insight.

Yes it does..and I'd urge Gary just to split that problematic stereo track
into two mono's..then throw one away! :-)
He only needs one mono vocal track for the Audition mixing operation with the
band's stereo track...and he can suss out the misconfiguration issues later at
his leisure.
--
Tom McCreadie

Live at The London Palindrome - ABBA

[Gary Eickmeier]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:

The phase problem has to be at the amplifier, because speakers wired
out of phase just sound funky, but still put out plenty of sound.
But if the leads from the sound card to the amp are out of phase,
then a mono signal would put a perfect null into the amplifier!

Let me guess, you have a 3.5mm jack on the output of the soundcard....
--scott

Yes of course. What choice do I have?

Gary

[Gary Eickmeier]

Tom McCreadie wrote:
OK I am done for the time being, and I got sound out of the speakers
now, but still have a problem at the headphones. The main culprit
was a Y cord out of the sound card that was used to split the signal
to two different speaker/amp aystems. I didn't think that would be a
problem when I did it, but apparently the Y cord is causing some
grounding or phase reversal error, so I de-commissioned one set of
speakers and now I have speaker sound but not headphone output.

Still some questions: Exactly what kind of "Y cord" were you using to
come out of your computer sound card?

Was it a 'splitter'. where its (1/4"or 1/8") trs phone plug splits
out the signal into unbalanced Left channel (from tip & sleeve) and
Right channel (from ring & sleeve), these unbalanced signals getting
passed along via rca, or 1/4"mono (ts) plugs or 1/8" mono (ts)
miniplugs?

Or was it actually a 'duplicator', where the stereol trs signal is
converted into _two_ stereol trs signals, probably with contraplug
termination? What's the input connector type on the Logitec
amp/speaker?

And was this the same Y cord used at the recording location? . That
may have been inappropriate for the soundboard, which could have been
outputting a balanced mono vocal signal (tip +ve, ring -ve, sleeve
ground).

Two different Y adapters. The one on site is a mono phone jack leading to
two RCA females. I then connected another Y adapter, two male RCA ends
leading down to a stereo mini 3.5mm phone plug. On the computer it is just a
3.5mm out of the sound card - whoops - I just had a flash - I don't have
just a stereo sound card, it is a 5.1 card, with six connections to the
amplifier. Well, actually they have 3 stereo pairs going to the amp and
thence to the speakers. However, I also have a Matrox processor looped in
there somehow, so I need to check out my whole audio wiring setup. Hard to
see down in there. I will keep trying!

Gary

[Gary Eickmeier]

Tom McCreadie wrote:
Does Audition have a convenient way to split a stereo track into two
mono tracks? That might give you some more insight.

Yes it does..and I'd urge Gary just to split that problematic
stereo track into two mono's..then throw one away! :-)
He only needs one mono vocal track for the Audition mixing operation
with the band's stereo track...and he can suss out the
misconfiguration issues later at his leisure.

Sure, I can work around the problem, but I am just curious what is going on
down there. I have mostly fixed it now, and I have my mixdown already, and
it is pretty good.

You know how a singer being amplified during a performance that you are
trying to record can sound horrible - echoey and indistinct? The only
solution is to take her voice off the mike that she is holding in her hand
and get the pure clean source and mix it into your orchestra sound. It
worked.

Mike, I am surprised at your question. Everyone knows that if you reverse
the polarity of one of the two mono tracks and add them together you will
null them out. What you do is highlight just one channel and hit Invert
polarity and you get not two out of phase channels but rather two flat
lines. Isn't that what you would expect?

Gary

[Gary Eickmeier]

Bill wrote:
If this is Audition 1.5 (or earlier) I would look at whether "Mono
(Edit view only)" in Device Properties was ticked. It can silence an
out of phase signal.

Sorry, forgot to tell you - Audition 2.0. I do have a 5.5 handy, but have
heard so many bad things about it I just haven't installed it yet.

Gary

[Tom McCreadie]

On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 15:07:29 +0200, Tom McCreadie
wrote:


OK I am done for the time being, and I got sound out of the speakers now,
but still have a problem at the headphones. The main culprit was a Y cord

Was it a 'splitter'. where its (1/4"or 1/8") trs.......

Oops - should have been: '6.35 mm or 3.5 mm' (the latter ain't 1/8".)
--
Tom McCreadie

Live at The London Palindrome - ABBA

[Tom McCreadie]

Mike, I am surprised at your question. Everyone knows that if you reverse
the polarity of one of the two mono tracks and add them together you will
null them out. What you do is highlight just one channel and hit Invert
polarity and you get not two out of phase channels but rather two flat
lines. Isn't that what you would expect?

But you threw us off by not mentioning anything about 'and add them together' in
your original post.
--
Tom McCreadie

[John Williamson]

On 09/04/2013 15:39, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:

The phase problem has to be at the amplifier, because speakers wired
out of phase just sound funky, but still put out plenty of sound.
But if the leads from the sound card to the amp are out of phase,
then a mono signal would put a perfect null into the amplifier!

Let me guess, you have a 3.5mm jack on the output of the soundcard....
--scott

Yes of course. What choice do I have?

On motherboard sound, probably not a lot.

On various external units here, anything from 3.5mm stereo jacks, to
balanced, +10dbu 14 inch jacks via phonos.

Just a thought, you are using a stereo (TRS) 3.5mm plug, and none of the
connections in the system are shorting the ring to ground? Some
soundcards will mute both channels if either channel is shorted to earth.

And you are, of course, sure that you haven't made my favourite mistake
with 3.5mm socketed sound cards while working upside down with no light
and my head under the desk? You *have* connected the plug to an output? :-)


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Luxey]

But you threw us off by not mentioning anything about 'and add them together' in

your original post.

He's just trolling. Again.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article ,
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:

The phase problem has to be at the amplifier, because speakers wired
out of phase just sound funky, but still put out plenty of sound.
But if the leads from the sound card to the amp are out of phase,
then a mono signal would put a perfect null into the amplifier!

Let me guess, you have a 3.5mm jack on the output of the soundcard....

Yes of course. What choice do I have?

I think you have just discovered the difference between professional and
consumer equipment.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[jason]

On Tue, 9 Apr 2013 10:59:05 -0400 "Gary Eickmeier"
wrote in article c_V8t.84653$b01.1403
@fx34.am4

Bill wrote:
If this is Audition 1.5 (or earlier) I would look at whether "Mono
(Edit view only)" in Device Properties was ticked. It can silence an
out of phase signal.

Sorry, forgot to tell you - Audition 2.0. I do have a 5.5 handy, but have
heard so many bad things about it I just haven't installed it yet.

Gary

5.5 wasn't "bad," it was just missing a lot from earlier versions because
they rewrote all the code and didn't finish it in time for the CS
release. The CS6 version has 'em back (except for a couple) and has some
new features as well. I recommend upgrading. Both CS5.5 and CS6 versions
will take advantage of multiple cpu cores, unlike all the earlier
versions.

Jason

[William Sommerwerck]

Both CS5.5 and CS6 versions take advantage of multiple
CPU cores, unlike all the earlier versions.

It pays to wait for a sale. I lucked out and got both CS6 and LR4 for $380
total.

[Gary Eickmeier]

Jeff Henig wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article ,
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:

The phase problem has to be at the amplifier, because speakers
wired out of phase just sound funky, but still put out plenty of
sound. But if the leads from the sound card to the amp are out of
phase, then a mono signal would put a perfect null into the
amplifier!

Let me guess, you have a 3.5mm jack on the output of the
soundcard....

Yes of course. What choice do I have?

I think you have just discovered the difference between professional
and consumer equipment.
--scott

Roger that.

What you guys sayin - they have sound cards with XLR jacks on them? Or do
you use USB connections to something external? Spill!

Gary

[John Williamson]

On 10/04/2013 13:21, Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Jeff Henig wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

I think you have just discovered the difference between professional
and consumer equipment.
--scott

Roger that.

What you guys sayin - they have sound cards with XLR jacks on them? Or do
you use USB connections to something external? Spill!

USB or Firewire. It keeps the analogue bits away from the electrical
noise inside the computer.

Or one like this:-

http://www.dv247.com/computer-hardwa...interface--173

Fits into a PCI slot on the motherboard and is *much* better quality
than motherboard sound.

Cards like this were around in 1995, and I'm still using one with a PCI
card in the computer and a breakout box with 8 ins, 4 outs, and a midi
synth built in. It's a bit noisy by modern standards, but it does the
job for some sources.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Gary Eickmeier]

Luxey wrote:
But you threw us off by not mentioning anything about 'and add them
together' in

your original post.

He's just trolling. Again.

OK Lux-O, that is uncalled for. I have an obvious problem that I am trying
to get to the bottom of. I think maybe you are the one trolling for trouble.

I would have to think about Tom's question for a minute - what I did was
invert one of the channels of a mono pair. I guess what I should have seen
was two out of polarity channels, which if played back would sound like a
mono track of speakers that were wired out of phase - hole in the middle.
But what I did get was two flat lines. No, I didn't do anythng specific to
add them together, as I remember. I can imagine that if I had (just a
minute...)

OK, I just brought it up and tried some things. If I load the mono recording
into Audition, I can hear it on speakers but not on headphones. The
headphone function works jst fine on stereo tracks. I invert one channel to
get two channels out of polarity. They play OK on speakers but nothing from
headphones! I take it to Multichannel for editing. If I export it to
mixdown, it remains just two out of polarity channels.

The only way I could duplicate the flatlining problem was to go to channel
mixer and hit Average, which takes half of each channel and adds them
together to make two mono channels. Now I get two flat lines.

All of that makes sense, but not being able to get sound out the headphone
output only with that mono signal does not make sense. Note that if I
deselect one channel and play just one "ear" I can hear it on headphones in
one side. But if I try to play both channels at once to the headphones,
nothing! The headphone signal comes right out of the amp for the six channel
computer speaker system. That amp feeds the speakers just like it feeds the
headphone jack, I would think. Its output goes to the right channel speaker,
which acts as the control unit for the system. The headphone is not mono-ing
up the sound at its cord, because I have listened to a stereo track on it,
and it has stereo and it does not mute the center signal.

Gary Eickmeier

[Gary Eickmeier]

Jason wrote:

5.5 wasn't "bad," it was just missing a lot from earlier versions
because they rewrote all the code and didn't finish it in time for
the CS release. The CS6 version has 'em back (except for a couple)
and has some new features as well. I recommend upgrading. Both CS5.5
and CS6 versions will take advantage of multiple cpu cores, unlike
all the earlier versions.

Jason

I have an Athlon 64 processor, but just a 32 bit OS - will it work with XP
Pro 32 bit?

Gary

[Scott Dorsey]

Gary Eickmeier wrote:

OK, I just brought it up and tried some things. If I load the mono recording
into Audition, I can hear it on speakers but not on headphones. The
headphone function works jst fine on stereo tracks. I invert one channel to
get two channels out of polarity. They play OK on speakers but nothing from
headphones! I take it to Multichannel for editing. If I export it to
mixdown, it remains just two out of polarity channels.

This is the symptom of a lifted ground caused by a failed mini phone plug,
as I said repeatedly. Mini phone plugs have no place in any application
where you actually expect things to work properly.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Phil W[_3_]]

Gary Eickmeier:
Jason wrote:

5.5 wasn't "bad," it was just missing a lot from earlier versions
because they rewrote all the code and didn't finish it in time for
the CS release. The CS6 version has 'em back (except for a couple)
and has some new features as well. I recommend upgrading. Both CS5.5
and CS6 versions will take advantage of multiple cpu cores, unlike
all the earlier versions.

Jason

I have an Athlon 64 processor, but just a 32 bit OS - will it work with XP
Pro 32 bit?

Man, learn to use a web search engine like Google! It´s so easy, that even
you should be able to find thousands of correct answers! Do you also need
somebody telling and showing you how to breath in and out?

What CPU you´ve got, does not matter! What matters is the OS, though 64 bit
Windows 7 should run most 32 bit programs flawlessly.

BTW: XP works fine on a 64 bit CPU - hope, that is clear enough for you!
You´re just limiting yourself by installing something "smaller", than the
CPU can work with.
Nothing more, nothing less!

Next step: get a brain and learn to use it!

[Gary Eickmeier]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:

OK, I just brought it up and tried some things. If I load the mono
recording into Audition, I can hear it on speakers but not on
headphones. The headphone function works jst fine on stereo tracks.
I invert one channel to get two channels out of polarity. They play
OK on speakers but nothing from headphones! I take it to
Multichannel for editing. If I export it to mixdown, it remains just
two out of polarity channels.

This is the symptom of a lifted ground caused by a failed mini phone
plug, as I said repeatedly. Mini phone plugs have no place in any
application where you actually expect things to work properly.
--scott

OK, thanks Scott. Then the bad mini jack must be somewhere before the
headphones, because the headphones work just fine with a stereo signal, and
they work fine on monitoring the recorder's output. So how could there be a
fault before the headphone jack that doesn't affect the speaker output as
well?

Rhetorical question - let me investigate further after work today.

Gary

[Luxey]

Could be, also, one of my my guesses is, it's (half) normalized thing, where plugging headphones cuts off speakers, and he did not plug good enough, sometimes those small stereo jacks have convex base, or something like that, you push hard to make it into slot, I can't read that much words about nothing, as Gary can write, so blame me, ... If he messed with it a lot, the result could well be cold solder, ..., so again, we come to your conclusion.

I still think he's trolling. I mean how long it takes to switch cable if you suspect it's bad? But, no, he keeps writing....

[Scott Dorsey]

Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:

This is the symptom of a lifted ground caused by a failed mini phone
plug, as I said repeatedly. Mini phone plugs have no place in any
application where you actually expect things to work properly.

OK, thanks Scott. Then the bad mini jack must be somewhere before the
headphones, because the headphones work just fine with a stereo signal, and
they work fine on monitoring the recorder's output. So how could there be a
fault before the headphone jack that doesn't affect the speaker output as
well?

That's why I suggested it was a plug rather than the jack.

Welcome to the world of crappy consumer electronics.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Luxey]

As long as there are 2 outputs, ther's a posibillity only one's faulty. That's how.

[Luxey]

Interesting, over here we say jack for both plugs and jacks, only we say male/ female. In above post, I was talking about male jack, ie. plug, now I'm definetly out of this ...

[Phil W[_3_]]

Luxey:

I still think he's trolling. I mean how long it takes to switch cable if
you suspect it's bad? But, no, he keeps writing....

I guess, it´s just more fun to keep a bunch of people around the world busy
with thinking about it, than just trying it and have the problem solved
within a few minutes, without yelling it out and getting on other´s nerves.
Must be something like that.

Recently I heard a "music teacher" complain, that the MIDI notation in his
DAW program would add numerous help lines for the bass notes. This "music
teacher" had not considered to set the low notes to a bass clef, rather than
using the default violin clef...
IMHO that´s purely embarassing, but the number of people who know
embarassment is obviously decreasing constantly. "The less you know about
something, the more urgent you need to make this your profession!" seems to
be today´s motto for most... :-\

Just makes me wanna puke more, than I could ever eat!