With a huge number of inexpensive condensor mics on the market now, are there
any that are considered a good choice for a flatpicked/strummed acoustic guitar
(w/o an internal pickup) onstage with an all-acoustic (no drum kit) ensemble ?

I'm way out of touch with all the new mics out lately...

Are there any large diaphragm mics that you folks would recommend?

The Oktave MC012s are well regarded as bang-for-the-buck, but I haven't been
very happy about the sound of them on fine guitars...

thanks,

stv

TarBabyTunes wrote:

With a huge number of inexpensive condensor mics on the market now, are there
any that are considered a good choice for a flatpicked/strummed acoustic guitar
(w/o an internal pickup) onstage with an all-acoustic (no drum kit) ensemble ?

What's your budget?

How much (if any) monitor level onstage, and from where?

In Article , Kurt Albershardt
wrote:
TarBabyTunes wrote:

With a huge number of inexpensive condensor mics on the market now, are there
any that are considered a good choice for a flatpicked/strummed acoustic
guitar
(w/o an internal pickup) onstage with an all-acoustic (no drum kit) ensemble
?

What's your budget?

How much (if any) monitor level onstage, and from where?

Audio Technica AE5100.

Regards,

Ty Ford


**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

Audio Technica AE5100.

Thanks, Ty!

Most interesting! I had wondered about these.

steveV

Audio Technica AE5100.

Thanks, Ty!

Most interesting! I had wondered about these.

steveV

What's your budget?

Well... the benchmark is probably the cost of a KM184, which is the orthodox
favorite, but I can be flexible...

How much (if any) monitor level onstage, and from where?

Not much. Some wedges but they carry a set of Galaxy Hot Spots and are pretty
good with them, which is to say, in the times I've heard these guys, monitor
feedback wasn't really apparent.

I know I'm asking a very general question, and I expect to be scolded for that,
but I did want to find out what other folks had used in a range of situations,
or just what mics y'all thought would be interesting for this application.

thanks,

stv

In Article ,
(TarBabyTunes) wrote:
What's your budget?

Well... the benchmark is probably the cost of a KM184, which is the orthodox
favorite, but I can be flexible...


On the top Schoeps cmc641 in the mids an Audio Technica AE5100.

Regards,

Ty Ford
**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

In Article ,
(TarBabyTunes) wrote:
What's your budget?

Well... the benchmark is probably the cost of a KM184, which is the orthodox
favorite, but I can be flexible...


On the top Schoeps cmc641 in the mids an Audio Technica AE5100.

Regards,

Ty Ford
**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

What's your budget?

Well... the benchmark is probably the cost of a KM184, which is the orthodox
favorite, but I can be flexible...

How much (if any) monitor level onstage, and from where?

Not much. Some wedges but they carry a set of Galaxy Hot Spots and are pretty
good with them, which is to say, in the times I've heard these guys, monitor
feedback wasn't really apparent.

I know I'm asking a very general question, and I expect to be scolded for that,
but I did want to find out what other folks had used in a range of situations,
or just what mics y'all thought would be interesting for this application.

thanks,

stv

TarBabyTunes wrote:

With a huge number of inexpensive condensor mics on the market now, are there
any that are considered a good choice for a flatpicked/strummed acoustic guitar
(w/o an internal pickup) onstage with an all-acoustic (no drum kit) ensemble ?

I'm way out of touch with all the new mics out lately...

Are there any large diaphragm mics that you folks would recommend?

The Oktave MC012s are well regarded as bang-for-the-buck, but I haven't been
very happy about the sound of them on fine guitars...

Next step up would be the Josephson Series Four, or the Audio-Technica AT 4053,
or maybe the Neumann KMS184. A lot more detail on a good guitar, without
being harsh. Probably the Neumann is the harshest of the three, even.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Next step up would be the Josephson Series Four, or the Audio-Technica AT
4053,
or maybe the Neumann KMS184. A lot more detail on a good guitar, without
being harsh. Probably the Neumann is the harshest of the three, even.

The guitar player is -usually- pretty steady on the mic, but how are the
Josephson and the 4053 off-axis?

I'm familiar with the Neumann.

Thanks, Scott!

stv

TarBabyTunes wrote:
Next step up would be the Josephson Series Four, or the Audio-Technica AT
4053,
or maybe the Neumann KMS184. A lot more detail on a good guitar, without
being harsh. Probably the Neumann is the harshest of the three, even.

The guitar player is -usually- pretty steady on the mic, but how are the
Josephson and the 4053 off-axis?

They are both very flat off-axis, but the pattern is somewhat narrow. The
Josephson is maybe about as wide as the KMS184. The 4053 is narrower. You
can get a 4051 which is the same thing as the 4053 but with a wider capsule,
or the 4049, which is the omni version of the same thing. (Sadly the Josephson
does not have any additional capsules available.)

Thanks, Scott!

Also, don't forget the Sennheiser 441. It's really an amazing thing and
people tend to neglect it these days. If you want smooth, it's smooth,
and it's also very tight.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

They are both very flat off-axis, but the pattern is somewhat narrow. The
Josephson is maybe about as wide as the KMS184. The 4053 is narrower. You
can get a 4051 which is the same thing as the 4053 but with a wider capsule,
or the 4049, which is the omni version of the same thing. (Sadly the Josephson
does not have any additional capsules available.)

Do I gather that you prefer the Josephson? GG


Also, don't forget the Sennheiser 441. It's really an amazing thing and
people tend to neglect it these days. If you want smooth, it's smooth,
and it's also very tight.

I use my 441s (a pair) a lot, and it seems that everyone in the world has
forgotten about them.
I love them. They used to be the SM57 (in the sense of ubiquity) of Europe!

Thanks!

stv

TarBabyTunes wrote:
They are both very flat off-axis, but the pattern is somewhat narrow. The
Josephson is maybe about as wide as the KMS184. The 4053 is narrower. You
can get a 4051 which is the same thing as the 4053 but with a wider capsule,
or the 4049, which is the omni version of the same thing. (Sadly the Josephson
does not have any additional capsules available.)

Do I gather that you prefer the Josephson? GG

Yes, but the Josephson isn't in the same league as the Schoeps or B&K (or
the Josephson Series Six for that matter). It's about as close as you'll
get at that price, though.

The different capsules for the 4051 series mikes are a huge advantage, though.

Also, don't forget the Sennheiser 441. It's really an amazing thing and
people tend to neglect it these days. If you want smooth, it's smooth,
and it's also very tight.

I use my 441s (a pair) a lot, and it seems that everyone in the world has
forgotten about them.
I love them. They used to be the SM57 (in the sense of ubiquity) of Europe!

I am always torn between going off my head telling people how wonderful they
are, and trying to keep quiet for fear people will start finding out about them
again and the prices will go up.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

TarBabyTunes wrote:
They are both very flat off-axis, but the pattern is somewhat narrow. The
Josephson is maybe about as wide as the KMS184. The 4053 is narrower. You
can get a 4051 which is the same thing as the 4053 but with a wider capsule,
or the 4049, which is the omni version of the same thing. (Sadly the Josephson
does not have any additional capsules available.)

Do I gather that you prefer the Josephson? GG

Yes, but the Josephson isn't in the same league as the Schoeps or B&K (or
the Josephson Series Six for that matter). It's about as close as you'll
get at that price, though.

The different capsules for the 4051 series mikes are a huge advantage, though.

Also, don't forget the Sennheiser 441. It's really an amazing thing and
people tend to neglect it these days. If you want smooth, it's smooth,
and it's also very tight.

I use my 441s (a pair) a lot, and it seems that everyone in the world has
forgotten about them.
I love them. They used to be the SM57 (in the sense of ubiquity) of Europe!

I am always torn between going off my head telling people how wonderful they
are, and trying to keep quiet for fear people will start finding out about them
again and the prices will go up.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

They are both very flat off-axis, but the pattern is somewhat narrow. The
Josephson is maybe about as wide as the KMS184. The 4053 is narrower. You
can get a 4051 which is the same thing as the 4053 but with a wider capsule,
or the 4049, which is the omni version of the same thing. (Sadly the Josephson
does not have any additional capsules available.)

Do I gather that you prefer the Josephson? GG


Also, don't forget the Sennheiser 441. It's really an amazing thing and
people tend to neglect it these days. If you want smooth, it's smooth,
and it's also very tight.

I use my 441s (a pair) a lot, and it seems that everyone in the world has
forgotten about them.
I love them. They used to be the SM57 (in the sense of ubiquity) of Europe!

Thanks!

stv

TarBabyTunes wrote:
Next step up would be the Josephson Series Four, or the Audio-Technica AT
4053,
or maybe the Neumann KMS184. A lot more detail on a good guitar, without
being harsh. Probably the Neumann is the harshest of the three, even.

The guitar player is -usually- pretty steady on the mic, but how are the
Josephson and the 4053 off-axis?

They are both very flat off-axis, but the pattern is somewhat narrow. The
Josephson is maybe about as wide as the KMS184. The 4053 is narrower. You
can get a 4051 which is the same thing as the 4053 but with a wider capsule,
or the 4049, which is the omni version of the same thing. (Sadly the Josephson
does not have any additional capsules available.)

Thanks, Scott!

Also, don't forget the Sennheiser 441. It's really an amazing thing and
people tend to neglect it these days. If you want smooth, it's smooth,
and it's also very tight.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Next step up would be the Josephson Series Four, or the Audio-Technica AT
4053,
or maybe the Neumann KMS184. A lot more detail on a good guitar, without
being harsh. Probably the Neumann is the harshest of the three, even.

The guitar player is -usually- pretty steady on the mic, but how are the
Josephson and the 4053 off-axis?

I'm familiar with the Neumann.

Thanks, Scott!

stv

Next step up would be the Josephson Series Four

That's a pretty marked +3db boost at 6k - 10k on the graph at from the website
....

??

But the pic of Chris Hillman and Herb Pedersen using them is impressive!

Thanks,

stv

TarBabyTunes wrote:
Next step up would be the Josephson Series Four

That's a pretty marked +3db boost at 6k - 10k on the graph at from the website
...

??

Try it and see. There is definitely a presence rise there, but it's not a
ragged one. The website graph, though, is actually believeable, unlike the
graphs from most manufacturers.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

TarBabyTunes wrote:
Next step up would be the Josephson Series Four

That's a pretty marked +3db boost at 6k - 10k on the graph at from the website
...

??

Try it and see. There is definitely a presence rise there, but it's not a
ragged one. The website graph, though, is actually believeable, unlike the
graphs from most manufacturers.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Next step up would be the Josephson Series Four

That's a pretty marked +3db boost at 6k - 10k on the graph at from the website
....

??

But the pic of Chris Hillman and Herb Pedersen using them is impressive!

Thanks,

stv

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
TarBabyTunes wrote:

With a huge number of inexpensive condensor mics on the market now, are
there
any that are considered a good choice for a flatpicked/strummed acoustic
guitar
(w/o an internal pickup) onstage with an all-acoustic (no drum kit)
ensemble ?

I'm way out of touch with all the new mics out lately...

Are there any large diaphragm mics that you folks would recommend?

The Oktave MC012s are well regarded as bang-for-the-buck, but I haven't
been
very happy about the sound of them on fine guitars...

Next step up would be the Josephson Series Four, or the Audio-Technica AT
4053,
or maybe the Neumann KMS184. A lot more detail on a good guitar, without
being harsh. Probably the Neumann is the harshest of the three, even.
--scott


Actually somewhere in between are the new Studio Projects C4 omni/cardiod
small capsule condensers. The SP large diagphram stuff has all been well
reveiwed, although these are so new I haven't seen a review yet. Matched
pair is, I believe, about $600.

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
TarBabyTunes wrote:

With a huge number of inexpensive condensor mics on the market now, are
there
any that are considered a good choice for a flatpicked/strummed acoustic
guitar
(w/o an internal pickup) onstage with an all-acoustic (no drum kit)
ensemble ?

I'm way out of touch with all the new mics out lately...

Are there any large diaphragm mics that you folks would recommend?

The Oktave MC012s are well regarded as bang-for-the-buck, but I haven't
been
very happy about the sound of them on fine guitars...

Next step up would be the Josephson Series Four, or the Audio-Technica AT
4053,
or maybe the Neumann KMS184. A lot more detail on a good guitar, without
being harsh. Probably the Neumann is the harshest of the three, even.
--scott


Actually somewhere in between are the new Studio Projects C4 omni/cardiod
small capsule condensers. The SP large diagphram stuff has all been well
reveiwed, although these are so new I haven't seen a review yet. Matched
pair is, I believe, about $600.

With a huge number of inexpensive condensor mics on the market now, are there
any that are considered a good choice for a flatpicked/strummed acoustic
guitar
(w/o an internal pickup) onstage with an all-acoustic (no drum kit) ensemble
?

Good review of the SE Electronics SE1 in Sound on sound mag..they loved it on
acoustics.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

Good review of the SE Electronics SE1 in Sound on sound mag..they loved it
on
acoustics.

Thanks, John!

This is what I meant, I haven't seen any of these reviews, so thanks!

stv

Good review of the SE Electronics SE1 in Sound on sound mag..they loved it
on
acoustics.

Thanks, John!

This is what I meant, I haven't seen any of these reviews, so thanks!

stv

in article , TarBabyTunes at
wrote on 10/16/03 8:23 AM:

With a huge number of inexpensive condensor mics on the market now, are there
any that are considered a good choice for a flatpicked/strummed acoustic
guitar
(w/o an internal pickup) onstage with an all-acoustic (no drum kit) ensemble ?

I'm way out of touch with all the new mics out lately...

Are there any large diaphragm mics that you folks would recommend?

The Oktave MC012s are well regarded as bang-for-the-buck, but I haven't been
very happy about the sound of them on fine guitars...

thanks,

stv

There have been many good suggestions from earlier posts. I agree that
the Josephson Series 4 and the Neumann KM184 are good choices. You might
also want to consider the Neumann 185 (hypercartoid) to assist in mitigating
bleeding from other acoustic instruments.

That being said, I think you will find that the sound you eventually
produce will depend much more on the remaining signal chain, as well as the
instrument you are playing (and playing with), particularly in a live
setting. The difference between a Josephson Series 4 and a Neumann KM184 is
subtle, even in a controlled studio setting. Indeed, the differences
between these two mid-level mics and an Octava MC012, although much more
apparent, might not show up much at all to a listener in the audience
hearing a mix of your instrument with several other acoustic instruments and
vocals through a mixing board and PA speakers.
--
Stephen T. Boyke

I think you will find that the sound you eventually
produce will depend much more on the remaining signal chain, as well as the
instrument you are playing (and playing with), particularly in a live
setting. The difference between a Josephson Series 4 and a Neumann KM184 is
subtle, even in a controlled studio setting. Indeed, the differences
between these two mid-level mics and an Octava MC012, although much more
apparent, might not show up much at all to a listener in the audience
hearing a mix of your instrument with several other acoustic instruments and
vocals through a mixing board and PA speakers.

We also track to a computer fairly regularly, so the recommendations here have
been of great value.

I promise to pay close attention to the integrity of my signal chain in live
situations. GG

Thanks!

steveV

We also track to a computer fairly regularly, so the recommendations here
have
been of great value.

This should read:

We also track to a computer fairly regularly during live performances, so the
recommendations here have been of great value.

Thanks,

steveV

We also track to a computer fairly regularly, so the recommendations here
have
been of great value.

This should read:

We also track to a computer fairly regularly during live performances, so the
recommendations here have been of great value.

Thanks,

steveV

I think you will find that the sound you eventually
produce will depend much more on the remaining signal chain, as well as the
instrument you are playing (and playing with), particularly in a live
setting. The difference between a Josephson Series 4 and a Neumann KM184 is
subtle, even in a controlled studio setting. Indeed, the differences
between these two mid-level mics and an Octava MC012, although much more
apparent, might not show up much at all to a listener in the audience
hearing a mix of your instrument with several other acoustic instruments and
vocals through a mixing board and PA speakers.

We also track to a computer fairly regularly, so the recommendations here have
been of great value.

I promise to pay close attention to the integrity of my signal chain in live
situations. GG

Thanks!

steveV

in article , TarBabyTunes at
wrote on 10/16/03 8:23 AM:

With a huge number of inexpensive condensor mics on the market now, are there
any that are considered a good choice for a flatpicked/strummed acoustic
guitar
(w/o an internal pickup) onstage with an all-acoustic (no drum kit) ensemble ?

I'm way out of touch with all the new mics out lately...

Are there any large diaphragm mics that you folks would recommend?

The Oktave MC012s are well regarded as bang-for-the-buck, but I haven't been
very happy about the sound of them on fine guitars...

thanks,

stv

There have been many good suggestions from earlier posts. I agree that
the Josephson Series 4 and the Neumann KM184 are good choices. You might
also want to consider the Neumann 185 (hypercartoid) to assist in mitigating
bleeding from other acoustic instruments.

That being said, I think you will find that the sound you eventually
produce will depend much more on the remaining signal chain, as well as the
instrument you are playing (and playing with), particularly in a live
setting. The difference between a Josephson Series 4 and a Neumann KM184 is
subtle, even in a controlled studio setting. Indeed, the differences
between these two mid-level mics and an Octava MC012, although much more
apparent, might not show up much at all to a listener in the audience
hearing a mix of your instrument with several other acoustic instruments and
vocals through a mixing board and PA speakers.
--
Stephen T. Boyke