I play a Santa Cruz OM PW on stage accompanying trad Irish music, and I'm
wondering what you folks think would be a good mic to use on it.

Just curious... G

Thanks,

steveV

In article writes:

I play a Santa Cruz OM PW on stage accompanying trad Irish music, and I'm
wondering what you folks think would be a good mic to use on it.

These days, I'd look at a built-in mic. You can start on the cheap
with an Audio Technica and work your way up to a Countryman or even a
DPA. If you're playing in a typical ceilidh style band with fiddle,
accordiong and maybe flute, you're not going to want a full, wide,
warm tone, you'd going to want it to sound a bit like a washboard
playing chords, so you want to be able to get a lot of higher midrange
and not a lot of bass out of it. Also, my experience with Irish
musicians is that they're usually deaf on stage and want really high
stage levels (as well as house levels) so putting a nice condenser mic
like a KM84 a foot or so out from your guitar is out of the question.

But then it all depends on your band.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

(TarBabyTunes) wrote in message ...
I play a Santa Cruz OM PW on stage accompanying trad Irish music, and I'm
wondering what you folks think would be a good mic to use on it.

Just curious... G

Thanks,


I use an Octava MC-01...or whatever the part is for thier small
diaphram condesor on a D-28 in my solo singer/songewriter gig. It
sounds good, way better than a pick-up, and it's cheap enough that, if
it gets broke or stolen, it's no big deal. You'll find it usefull in
the studio as well. I love it for the price.

Tom Paul

On 10/13/03 11:42 PM, TarBabyTunes eloquently wrote:


I play a Santa Cruz OM PW on stage accompanying trad Irish music, and I'm
wondering what you folks think would be a good mic to use on it.

Just curious... G

Thanks,

steveV

Steve:

Sounds like you've already ruled out a pickup. However, the SC OMPW is, if
I remember correctly, quite a responsive and resonant guitar. I have such a
guitar - a Tippin OMT, and a mic on stage is disastrous with feedback
problems. I have an undersaddle pickup in my Tippin and I am able to dial
in a great sound

If the on-stage monitor volume isn't too high, you'll be okay for feedback,
but even then you'll have issue with proximity and positioning with this
guitar. My opinion is for onstage work one wants a neutral and not very
resonant guitar, not necessarily one which has a wonderful voice all its
own.

Having said all that, though, in the last six months I have given up on
using pickups in two of the three instruments I use onstage. I now play
mostly cittern and banjo and just use a mic. I got really tired of cables
and preamps circling my feet and snagging in the instrument stands. I also
got tired of two or three gain levels with each instrument and dealing with
that. I simply started using a SM57. It really captures a lot of the
instruments' fidelity. I guess I'm a lot better at dealing with a mic than
I used to be because it doesn't feel like any big deal to dance around in
front of it to control gain or even tone. But I still have problems with
that resonant Tippin, though, and in the gigs when I play that I still use
the pickup.

Carlos

I'll second the DPA recommendation: their 4060/4061 miniature mics are
a favorite of mine for lavalier/spoken word use as well as the
occasional instrumental application.

Michael


These days, I'd look at a built-in mic. You can start on the cheap
with an Audio Technica and work your way up to a Countryman or even a
DPA. If you're playing in a typical ceilidh style band with fiddle,
accordiong and maybe flute, you're not going to want a full, wide,
warm tone, you'd going to want it to sound a bit like a washboard
playing chords, so you want to be able to get a lot of higher midrange
and not a lot of bass out of it. Also, my experience with Irish
musicians is that they're usually deaf on stage and want really high
stage levels (as well as house levels) so putting a nice condenser mic
like a KM84 a foot or so out from your guitar is out of the question.

But then it all depends on your band.

TarBabyTunes wrote:

I play a Santa Cruz OM PW on stage accompanying trad Irish music, and I'm
wondering what you folks think would be a good mic to use on it.

On-stage use of an acoustic is tough, piezos make anything good sound
like a cigar box with rubber strings.

You're not in the optimal situation but some things which work decently
are lavalier-type mics with instrument clips, which let you clip the mic
on right by the sound hole. This has the advantage that you can move
around and still get the same sound. Feedback may still be a problem,
though.

One to look at is at http://www.audiotechnica.com/prodpro...es/AT831b.html

The L.R.Baggs I-beam pickup, which goes inside the body under the
bridge, has in what I've heard of it produced very good amplified tones.

http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products...ps_ibeam.shtml

--
in days somehow distracted / in nights of troubled sleep
these memories long suppressed emerge / too difficult to keep
To reach me reverse: moc(dot)xobop(at)ggestran

In Article , Jonathan Roberts
wrote:
TarBabyTunes wrote:

I play a Santa Cruz OM PW on stage accompanying trad Irish music, and I'm
wondering what you folks think would be a good mic to use on it.

On-stage use of an acoustic is tough, piezos make anything good sound
like a cigar box with rubber strings.

You're not in the optimal situation but some things which work decently
are lavalier-type mics with instrument clips, which let you clip the mic
on right by the sound hole. This has the advantage that you can move
around and still get the same sound. Feedback may still be a problem,
though.

One to look at is at http://www.audiotechnica.com/prodpro...es/AT831b.html

The L.R.Baggs I-beam pickup, which goes inside the body under the
bridge, has in what I've heard of it produced very good amplified tones.

http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products...ps_ibeam.shtml


Or one Schoeps CMC641


Regards,

Ty Ford

**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

Or one Schoeps CMC641


Regards,

Ty Ford

**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford



You beat me to this one Ty.

I used aCMC6/41 on a live gig and the sound was fabulous.

How one monitors is important, but I have heard no better microphone in this
situation.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

Biggest problem in live work isn't necessarily the mic but the monitoring.
Internal mics, external mics, piezo transducers, all provide sound, but they
also have a situation where without the proper monitoring, you are simply
feedback waiting to happen. Personally, I don't like the idea of frontline
monitoring of an acoustic guitar one way or the other unless there's someone
really qualified at the monitor system. I'd prefer that the artist have a
decent backline amp to work with and set it up on a chair or something where
the guitar monitoring comes from something other than the frontline
monitoring. You always ask for problems. A live mic in front of the guitar
just presents that many more problems, feedback not being the most
significant (although the most immediate). You'll still have room noise and
bleed.

I'm working with a latin/cuban band, small by normal circumstances (more
closely related to mexican tejano in instrumentation) and their choices of
miking the guitars has been somewhat problematic because they play small
clubs with inadequate PA solutions. There are so many factors that one has
to wonder just how to solve your problem because you're most likely in the
same situation, meaning small club and small stage.

So what I seriously suggest is to forget the idea of monitoring and check
out either a Countryman or other transducer with a decent acoustic amp where
YOU control the specifics, don't have any guitar come back through the
minimal monitoring system you might have for vocals, and just learn to adapt
to how the others in your traditional Irish band play. Often, out of the
700+ live shows I've done, the best FOH sound comes from an accomplished
group that mixes themselves on stage. I love it when my problems are solved
by a good group of musicians! g

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"TarBabyTunes" wrote in message
...

I play a Santa Cruz OM PW on stage accompanying trad Irish music, and I'm
wondering what you folks think would be a good mic to use on it.

Just curious... G

Thanks,

steveV

Roger wrote:

Biggest problem in live work isn't necessarily the mic but the monitoring.
Internal mics, external mics, piezo transducers, all provide sound, but they
also have a situation where without the proper monitoring, you are simply
feedback waiting to happen. Personally, I don't like the idea of frontline
monitoring of an acoustic guitar one way or the other unless there's someone
really qualified at the monitor system.


Yeah well, "someone really qualified" at the monitor system is key for sure.
Depends on the venue I guess. For little clubs I don't mind an acoustic amp in
back of me but in big halls it never cuts it, specially with drum kit compared
to a full blown monitor rig altho most times piezos sound like **** coming back
that way also IMO of course.

I'd prefer that the artist have a
decent backline amp to work with and set it up on a chair or something where
the guitar monitoring comes from something other than the frontline
monitoring. You always ask for problems. A live mic in front of the guitar
just presents that many more problems, feedback not being the most
significant (although the most immediate). You'll still have room noise and
bleed.

I'm working with a latin/cuban band, small by normal circumstances (more
closely related to mexican tejano in instrumentation) and their choices of
miking the guitars has been somewhat problematic because they play small
clubs with inadequate PA solutions. There are so many factors that one has
to wonder just how to solve your problem because you're most likely in the
same situation, meaning small club and small stage.

So what I seriously suggest is to forget the idea of monitoring and check
out either a Countryman or other transducer with a decent acoustic amp where
YOU control the specifics, don't have any guitar come back through the
minimal monitoring system you might have for vocals, and just learn to adapt
to how the others in your traditional Irish band play. Often, out of the
700+ live shows I've done, the best FOH sound comes from an accomplished
group that mixes themselves on stage. I love it when my problems are solved
by a good group of musicians! g

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"TarBabyTunes" wrote in message
...

I play a Santa Cruz OM PW on stage accompanying trad Irish music, and I'm
wondering what you folks think would be a good mic to use on it.

Just curious... G

Thanks,

steveV

I'll give you your experience, but unless you have a good crew presenting
you the way you need to sound, it's all **** anyway. An acoustic guitar
doesn't "cut" if it isn't presentable. Like I said, 700 shows and I feel
pretty comfortable with how it would ideally be handled. Not all shows are
the same, however, and that's the rub.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Mondoslug1" wrote in message
...
Roger wrote:

Biggest problem in live work isn't necessarily the mic but the
monitoring.
Internal mics, external mics, piezo transducers, all provide sound, but
they
also have a situation where without the proper monitoring, you are simply
feedback waiting to happen. Personally, I don't like the idea of
frontline
monitoring of an acoustic guitar one way or the other unless there's
someone
really qualified at the monitor system.


Yeah well, "someone really qualified" at the monitor system is key for
sure.
Depends on the venue I guess. For little clubs I don't mind an acoustic
amp in
back of me but in big halls it never cuts it, specially with drum kit
compared
to a full blown monitor rig altho most times piezos sound like **** coming
back
that way also IMO of course.

I'd prefer that the artist have a
decent backline amp to work with and set it up on a chair or something
where
the guitar monitoring comes from something other than the frontline
monitoring. You always ask for problems. A live mic in front of the
guitar
just presents that many more problems, feedback not being the most
significant (although the most immediate). You'll still have room noise
and
bleed.

I'm working with a latin/cuban band, small by normal circumstances (more
closely related to mexican tejano in instrumentation) and their choices
of
miking the guitars has been somewhat problematic because they play small
clubs with inadequate PA solutions. There are so many factors that one
has
to wonder just how to solve your problem because you're most likely in
the
same situation, meaning small club and small stage.

So what I seriously suggest is to forget the idea of monitoring and check
out either a Countryman or other transducer with a decent acoustic amp
where
YOU control the specifics, don't have any guitar come back through the
minimal monitoring system you might have for vocals, and just learn to
adapt
to how the others in your traditional Irish band play. Often, out of the
700+ live shows I've done, the best FOH sound comes from an accomplished
group that mixes themselves on stage. I love it when my problems are
solved
by a good group of musicians! g

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"TarBabyTunes" wrote in message
...

I play a Santa Cruz OM PW on stage accompanying trad Irish music, and
I'm
wondering what you folks think would be a good mic to use on it.

Just curious... G

Thanks,

steveV

Roger wrote:

I'll give you your experience, but unless you have a good crew presenting
you the way you need to sound, it's all **** anyway. An acoustic guitar
doesn't "cut" if it isn't presentable. Like I said, 700 shows and I feel
pretty comfortable with how it would ideally be handled. Not all shows are
the same, however, and that's the rub.


I'm not necessarily disagreeing at all. For me the few times I've tried to use
my little amp on a big stage it was virtually unhearable. Best live thing I
ever had for acoustic guitar was ear buds but then you definitely need a good
monitor engineer not to hurt you. Having a pickup & external mic is somethign I
like. Depends on the music though. If it's slamming the mic's pretty useless
but if it's an acoustic vibey thing with broke down drums, cool to have the
mic...even if it's just a psychological thing....for me

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Mondoslug1" wrote in message
...
Roger wrote:

Biggest problem in live work isn't necessarily the mic but the
monitoring.
Internal mics, external mics, piezo transducers, all provide sound, but
they
also have a situation where without the proper monitoring, you are simply
feedback waiting to happen. Personally, I don't like the idea of
frontline
monitoring of an acoustic guitar one way or the other unless there's
someone
really qualified at the monitor system.


Yeah well, "someone really qualified" at the monitor system is key for
sure.
Depends on the venue I guess. For little clubs I don't mind an acoustic
amp in
back of me but in big halls it never cuts it, specially with drum kit
compared
to a full blown monitor rig altho most times piezos sound like **** coming
back
that way also IMO of course.

I'd prefer that the artist have a
decent backline amp to work with and set it up on a chair or something
where
the guitar monitoring comes from something other than the frontline
monitoring. You always ask for problems. A live mic in front of the
guitar
just presents that many more problems, feedback not being the most
significant (although the most immediate). You'll still have room noise
and
bleed.

I'm working with a latin/cuban band, small by normal circumstances (more
closely related to mexican tejano in instrumentation) and their choices
of
miking the guitars has been somewhat problematic because they play small
clubs with inadequate PA solutions. There are so many factors that one
has
to wonder just how to solve your problem because you're most likely in
the
same situation, meaning small club and small stage.

So what I seriously suggest is to forget the idea of monitoring and check
out either a Countryman or other transducer with a decent acoustic amp
where
YOU control the specifics, don't have any guitar come back through the
minimal monitoring system you might have for vocals, and just learn to
adapt
to how the others in your traditional Irish band play. Often, out of the
700+ live shows I've done, the best FOH sound comes from an accomplished
group that mixes themselves on stage. I love it when my problems are
solved
by a good group of musicians! g

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"TarBabyTunes" wrote in message
...

I play a Santa Cruz OM PW on stage accompanying trad Irish music, and
I'm
wondering what you folks think w

I spoke in relation to the query. An acoustic guitar with an Irish band.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Mondoslug1" wrote in message
...
Roger wrote:

I'll give you your experience, but unless you have a good crew presenting
you the way you need to sound, it's all **** anyway. An acoustic guitar
doesn't "cut" if it isn't presentable. Like I said, 700 shows and I feel
pretty comfortable with how it would ideally be handled. Not all shows
are
the same, however, and that's the rub.


I'm not necessarily disagreeing at all. For me the few times I've tried to
use
my little amp on a big stage it was virtually unhearable. Best live thing
I
ever had for acoustic guitar was ear buds but then you definitely need a
good
monitor engineer not to hurt you. Having a pickup & external mic is
somethign I
like. Depends on the music though. If it's slamming the mic's pretty
useless
but if it's an acoustic vibey thing with broke down drums, cool to have
the
mic...even if it's just a psychological thing....for me

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Mondoslug1" wrote in message
...
Roger wrote:

Biggest problem in live work isn't necessarily the mic but the
monitoring.
Internal mics, external mics, piezo transducers, all provide sound,
but
they
also have a situation where without the proper monitoring, you are
simply
feedback waiting to happen. Personally, I don't like the idea of
frontline
monitoring of an acoustic guitar one way or the other unless there's
someone
really qualified at the monitor system.


Yeah well, "someone really qualified" at the monitor system is key for
sure.
Depends on the venue I guess. For little clubs I don't mind an acoustic
amp in
back of me but in big halls it never cuts it, specially with drum kit
compared
to a full blown monitor rig altho most times piezos sound like ****
coming
back
that way also IMO of course.

I'd prefer that the artist have a
decent backline amp to work with and set it up on a chair or something
where
the guitar monitoring comes from something other than the frontline
monitoring. You always ask for problems. A live mic in front of the
guitar
just presents that many more problems, feedback not being the most
significant (although the most immediate). You'll still have room
noise
and
bleed.

I'm working with a latin/cuban band, small by normal circumstances
(more
closely related to mexican tejano in instrumentation) and their
choices
of
miking the guitars has been somewhat problematic because they play
small
clubs with inadequate PA solutions. There are so many factors that
one
has
to wonder just how to solve your problem because you're most likely in
the
same situation, meaning small club and small stage.

So what I seriously suggest is to forget the idea of monitoring and
check
out either a Countryman or other transducer with a decent acoustic amp
where
YOU control the specifics, don't have any guitar come back through the
minimal monitoring system you might have for vocals, and just learn to
adapt
to how the others in your traditional Irish band play. Often, out of
the
700+ live shows I've done, the best FOH sound comes from an
accomplished
group that mixes themselves on stage. I love it when my problems are
solved
by a good group of musicians! g

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"TarBabyTunes" wrote in message
...

I play a Santa Cruz OM PW on stage accompanying trad Irish music,
and
I'm
wondering what you folks think w

(TarBabyTunes) wrote in message ...
I play a Santa Cruz OM PW on stage accompanying trad Irish music, and I'm
wondering what you folks think would be a good mic to use on it.

Just curious... G

Thanks,

steveV


A few years ago I wanna say i saw Gordon Lightfoot on stage(pbs). He
was not plugged in. Want to say it looked like an sm81 but can't
picture it. It sounded good. I didn't hear feedback. Like other have
probably suggested make sure though you have an eq unit to cut out an
frequencies that might scream like a banshee! That would be too Irish.

I have been looking through the Neumann site. They have a bunch of
testimonials(pretty blatently pro neumann). But it's another opinion
you might want to read through the KM180 series "what others are
saying" section. Http://www.neumann.com

Richard,

How did you monitor?

Martin
"Richard Kuschel" wrote in message
...

Or one Schoeps CMC641


Regards,

Ty Ford

**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email
address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford



You beat me to this one Ty.

I used aCMC6/41 on a live gig and the sound was fabulous.

How one monitors is important, but I have heard no better microphone in
this
situation.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

I would recommed the Crown CM700 condenser mic for stage amplifying. I got
great results with this mic even in large enssebles. It wont be my first
choice in the studio but on stage there are other parametres.
Recently I've used the L.R.Baggs DI which was fantastic too but you will
have to modify the guitar for that and I am not sure it worth the while.

--
Joav Shdema
Producer/Engineer
dB Studio A
Joav Shdema Inc.

"TarBabyTunes" wrote in message
...

I play a Santa Cruz OM PW on stage accompanying trad Irish music, and I'm
wondering what you folks think would be a good mic to use on it.

Just curious... G

Thanks,

steveV

JoavS ) wrote:
Recently I've used the L.R.Baggs DI which was fantastic too but you will
have to modify the guitar for that and I am not sure it worth the while.

Are you referring to one of their pickups/systems? (the Para Acoustic
DI is an external preamp/DI with eq)


- Brian

ichard,

How did you monitor?

Martin
"Richard Kuschel" wrote in message
...

Or one Schoeps CMC641


Regards,

Ty Ford

**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email
address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford



You beat me to this one Ty.

I used aCMC6/41 on a live gig and the sound was fabulous.

How one monitors is important, but I have heard no better microphone in
this
situation.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty


In one situation I didn't and that worked best .

Another time I used a Hot Spot.

Since the CMC6/41 is supercardioid,there is a heavy null at about 120 degrees
from the front of the mic. Work with that and keep monitors low.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

ichard,

How did you monitor?

Martin
"Richard Kuschel" wrote in message
...

Or one Schoeps CMC641


Regards,

Ty Ford

**Until the worm goes away, I have put "not" in front of my email
address.
Please remove it if you want to email me directly.
For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford



You beat me to this one Ty.

I used aCMC6/41 on a live gig and the sound was fabulous.

How one monitors is important, but I have heard no better microphone in
this
situation.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty


In one situation I didn't and that worked best .

Another time I used a Hot Spot.

Since the CMC6/41 is supercardioid,there is a heavy null at about 120 degrees
from the front of the mic. Work with that and keep monitors low.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty