[Flying V]

I realize this may not be the best forum for this question, but you
never know--someone may have a good suggestion.

I work in radio and am looking for suggestions, for a new way to do
remote "on location" broadcasts.

In the past, we'd use a transmitter (Marti). But, that's really only
useful for voice.

We're looking for something that would be suitable for broadcasting live
musical performances (classical, jazz, etc.). I realize there is the
internet....but, wouldn't you need something better than a standard
broadband connection? Something more like VOIP? Such connections are
still difficult to get in my area--unless you're on or near the
university campus.

What about something that uses 3G/cell technology? Anything there that
might be suitable?

We're just now starting to look for options, so I have very little
information--so far.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

If you have experience in this area, what are you using?

Thanks,

Mike

[Scott Dorsey]

Flying V wrote:
I work in radio and am looking for suggestions, for a new way to do
remote "on location" broadcasts.

In the past, we'd use a transmitter (Marti). But, that's really only
useful for voice.

IS it? If you have a boatanchor M30B, you can get 20-15 Khz response
across the board and remarkably low distortion if you are using the
matching receiver.

Much of the bad rap that Martis get have to do with people using crappy
narrowband scanners as receivers. The things can be remarkably hi-fi
if they are set up and maintained properly.

I have done symphony remotes with a Marti (although I added a control
to disable the limiter).

We're looking for something that would be suitable for broadcasting live
musical performances (classical, jazz, etc.). I realize there is the
internet....but, wouldn't you need something better than a standard
broadband connection? Something more like VOIP? Such connections are
still difficult to get in my area--unless you're on or near the
university campus.

There are plenty of such devices available, and you can see ads for lots
of them in Radio World. For the most part, they work as well as the
connection given them. You can get remarkably good fidelity or remarkably
poor fidelity depending on the connection.

Consequently there are still a lot of people using ISDN circuits for
this. ISDN bandwidth is pretty low, but the bandwidth is guaranteeed,
unlike with an IP connection. However, you now need to get the telco
to install ISDN, which can be easy or hard depending on the circumstances
and the local telco. Again, lots of folks are adverting ISDN boxes with
MUSICAM encoders in them in Radio World and Broadcast Engineering magazines.

What about something that uses 3G/cell technology? Anything there that
might be suitable?

As soon as there is actual 3G technology, we'll let you know.

We're just now starting to look for options, so I have very little
information--so far.

If you're doing a lot of them in one place, you can still get the telephone
company to install 16KC radio loop circuits. They don't want to do it,
they will work really hard not to do it and it will take forever to find
the one person in the business office who knows how to do it. But they
are reliable and can't be jammed (although they can nynex your pair when
you aren't looking and when you go out for a remote you find it's down).

If you have experience in this area, what are you using?

Today, I do concerts "Live Via Nagra Tape Delay." I record it, then drive
over to the station and they play it over the air in almost realtime.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Flying V]

On 12/14/2010 5:44 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Flying wrote:
I work in radio and am looking for suggestions, for a new way to do
remote "on location" broadcasts.

In the past, we'd use a transmitter (Marti). But, that's really only
useful for voice.

IS it? If you have a boatanchor M30B, you can get 20-15 Khz response
across the board and remarkably low distortion if you are using the
matching receiver.

Much of the bad rap that Martis get have to do with people using crappy
narrowband scanners as receivers. The things can be remarkably hi-fi
if they are set up and maintained properly.

I have done symphony remotes with a Marti (although I added a control
to disable the limiter).

We're looking for something that would be suitable for broadcasting live
musical performances (classical, jazz, etc.). I realize there is the
internet....but, wouldn't you need something better than a standard
broadband connection? Something more like VOIP? Such connections are
still difficult to get in my area--unless you're on or near the
university campus.

There are plenty of such devices available, and you can see ads for lots
of them in Radio World. For the most part, they work as well as the
connection given them. You can get remarkably good fidelity or remarkably
poor fidelity depending on the connection.

Consequently there are still a lot of people using ISDN circuits for
this. ISDN bandwidth is pretty low, but the bandwidth is guaranteeed,
unlike with an IP connection. However, you now need to get the telco
to install ISDN, which can be easy or hard depending on the circumstances
and the local telco. Again, lots of folks are adverting ISDN boxes with
MUSICAM encoders in them in Radio World and Broadcast Engineering magazines.

What about something that uses 3G/cell technology? Anything there that
might be suitable?

As soon as there is actual 3G technology, we'll let you know.

We're just now starting to look for options, so I have very little
information--so far.

If you're doing a lot of them in one place, you can still get the telephone
company to install 16KC radio loop circuits. They don't want to do it,
they will work really hard not to do it and it will take forever to find
the one person in the business office who knows how to do it. But they
are reliable and can't be jammed (although they can nynex your pair when
you aren't looking and when you go out for a remote you find it's down).

If you have experience in this area, what are you using?

Today, I do concerts "Live Via Nagra Tape Delay." I record it, then drive
over to the station and they play it over the air in almost realtime.
--scott


Hey Scott,

Thanks for your reply! I'm really just getting into this and have very
little experience with live remotes. We typically do as you--record the
concert and play it back later.

We have a pair of RPU's that we've used in the past. I don't recall the
brand/type, but they don't sound very good. That could be due to the
way they're setup, etc. They are quite old, too....so it's time to
replace them. One or the other is always crapping out, just when you
really need it!

We'd like to find something that has better range too, so that we can
travel to area towns for remote broadcasts.

And, since we're not usually in the same place twice, going for
something like ISDN or Radio Loop circuits won't work for us. We
literally need something that we can grab and go.

I know that's asking a lot....but, that's the assignment I've been given.

I'm looking at a Tieline Commander remote unit. It claims to do 15kz
mono, even over POTS. With 2 POTS lines, it claims dual mono/stereo
capability. It also works with cell/IP connections, wi-fi, ISDN and more.

I've never used anything from Tieline, but our chief engineer swears by
the company. (We have used Telos ISDN gear for years and have had great
luck with it!)

Anyway, I have lots more research to do. Thanks again for your reply
and information!

Mike

[Scott Dorsey]

Flying V wrote:
We have a pair of RPU's that we've used in the past. I don't recall the
brand/type, but they don't sound very good. That could be due to the
way they're setup, etc. They are quite old, too....so it's time to
replace them. One or the other is always crapping out, just when you
really need it!

What are they? The old tube-type Marti units using the 160 Mhz band are
pretty bulletproof. Some of the 950 Mhz stuff is touchy. If they are
actually real Marti gear, though Marti will refurb for reasonable rates.

I'm looking at a Tieline Commander remote unit. It claims to do 15kz
mono, even over POTS. With 2 POTS lines, it claims dual mono/stereo
capability. It also works with cell/IP connections, wi-fi, ISDN and more.

It does, but it does that with very severe compression.... the more bandwidth
you can give it, the better they will do. There are a bunch of parameters
you can set up in order to deal with particular line characteristics, but
if you have bursty connections you will have trouble no matter what.

A lot of your question becomes how willing to put up with compression artifacts
your listeners are... and I am amazed at how much younger people are willing to
put up with. Classical listeners are even willing to put up with a lot more
than I would ever consider acceptable myself. Note also that if you have any
other lossy encoding in the broadcast chain (like on the STL or on a media
server), the problems build up exponentially.

I've never used anything from Tieline, but our chief engineer swears by
the company. (We have used Telos ISDN gear for years and have had great
luck with it!)

Telos also makes some IP-based boxes now, like the current Zephyr model
and your old ISDN stuff may be eligible for a trade-in.

Anyway, I have lots more research to do. Thanks again for your reply
and information!

I would call BSW and see if you can arrange for a loan of a couple different
models to try out. All of these systems sound okay with a good connection,
the question is what they do when the connection gets lousy.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."