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#1
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At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that),
why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? |
#2
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They sound better because most musicians play better when they're
getting energy back from a real live audience. No way to simulate that. Peace, Paul |
#3
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On 10/7/2010 9:59 PM, gjsmo wrote:
At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? You're making a value judgment that not everyone shares. I love live recordings. My brother detests them. There are two primary differences between live and studio recordings, in my view. The first is enthusiasm. Many artists perform much better in front of an admiring audience than they do in front of a studio microphone in a sterile room. Red light fever can be a killer. A second major contributor is acoustics. Some live venues work better for recordings than some poorly acoustically treated rooms. This second effect became even more apparent to me when I was working with some omni wireless lapel mics. In a small room, they sound terrible. In a large room, such as a live venue, they sound great. The reason was that the small room acoustics were terrible. There are many more reasons why there are major differences. In a live venue, bands crank their amps and beat the hell out of the drums. Sometimes in a studio, they are more subdued. It can be a major undertaking to try to capture the live momentum in a studio recording. Some musicians totally suck a playing live and cannot exist without AutoTune (think Taylor Swift.) Most live recordings have moderate to excessive overdubbing. At that point, the live recording really becomes a composite of the best of the live performance enhanced by the best of the studio technology. Don't worry about being new. I've been here for 15 years, and I still don't know much. One of the pros will probably jump all over my answer, which is fine. It's just my humble opinion. |
#4
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On Oct 8, 4:24*pm, mcp6453 wrote:
On 10/7/2010 9:59 PM, gjsmo wrote: At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? You're making a value judgment that not everyone shares. I love live recordings. My brother detests them. There are two primary differences between live and studio recordings, in my view. The first is enthusiasm. Many artists perform much better in front of an admiring audience than they do in front of a studio microphone in a sterile room. Red light fever can be a killer. A second major contributor is acoustics. Some live venues work better for recordings than some poorly acoustically treated rooms. This second effect became even more apparent to me when I was working with some omni wireless lapel mics. In a small room, they sound terrible. In a large room, such as a live venue, they sound great. The reason was that the small room acoustics were terrible. There are many more reasons why there are major differences. In a live venue, bands crank their amps and beat the hell out of the drums. Sometimes in a studio, they are more subdued. It can be a major undertaking to try to capture the live momentum in a studio recording. Ok... then if I told the audience to be quiet, ... nawww, that won't work. Some musicians totally suck a playing live and cannot exist without AutoTune (think Taylor Swift.) Most live recordings have moderate to excessive overdubbing. At that point, the live recording really becomes a composite of the best of the live performance enhanced by the best of the studio technology. Huh? You mean that what I hear isn't what was at the concert? THEY LIE! Don't worry about being new. I've been here for 15 years, and I still don't know much. One of the pros will probably jump all over my answer, which is fine. It's just my humble opinion. |
#5
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"gjsmo" wrote in message
... At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? What kind of music? "Better" in what way? With respect to classical music, live recordings often sound better because the recording engineer is less able to **** with the sound. |
#6
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On Oct 8, 4:38*pm, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote: "gjsmo" wrote in message ... At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? What kind of music? "Better" in what way? With respect to classical music, live recordings often sound better because the recording engineer is less able to **** with the sound. Classic/Hard Rock mostly. I haven't noticed it so much with classical. |
#7
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gjsmo wrote:
At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? It depends on what kind of music. Just IMO, but the Zappa Plays Zappa DVD sounds pretty much better than Frank's own studio efforts except for the Synclavier albums ( and those frequently suffer from FM synthesis ). Back in the day, live albums were frequently nothing more than contractual obligation filler. Still, I have a guy I've recorded live, and we'll see how he likes the studio experience. -- Les Cargill |
#8
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gjsmo wrote:
At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? When it is Take #1-and-only, a performer can deliver something not available when there's a chance of Take #17. Group performances multiply the results. One can not "re-create" the magic of "live". Do the "studio recording" "live" and go from there. -- ~ Roy "If you notice the sound, it's wrong!" |
#9
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gjsmo wrote:
At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? I've heard very many live recordings that sound far worse than studio ones. geoff |
#10
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On 08 Oct 2010, "geoff" wrote in
rec.audio.pro: I've heard very many live recordings that sound far worse than studio ones. I love good live albums - some of my favorite records are live ones, but there are many mediocre and bad ones. It's difficult to capture the live experience, and many or most modern live albums are heavily sweetened in the studio. Sometimes the performance is so energetic and immediate that the sound quality itself becomes secondary importance and can be overlooked or go unnoticed (by me, at least.) |
#11
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William Sommerwerck wrote:
"gjsmo" wrote in message ... At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? What kind of music? "Better" in what way? With respect to classical music, live recordings often sound better because the recording engineer is less able to **** with the sound. You wouldn't call measure by measure and note by note editing ****ing with the sound? -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman |
#12
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PStamler wrote:
They sound better because most musicians play better when they're getting energy back from a real live audience. No way to simulate that. Peace, Paul There is also the factor that when sound from various sources gets mixed in air before hitting storage things happen which are not easily emulated in processing. I like to have enryone playing live, all together now, and even with close mic'ing, a stereo pair that get s a nice image of the whole picture. This requires consideration of placement of players and mics, but to me, it's worth the trouble. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman |
#13
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gjsmo wrote:
At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? The audience brings the show. The band just acts as a fuse. -- Les Cargill |
#14
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hank alrich wrote:
William wrote: wrote in message ... At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? What kind of music? "Better" in what way? With respect to classical music, live recordings often sound better because the recording engineer is less able to **** with the sound. You wouldn't call measure by measure and note by note editing ****ing with the sound? So what's the best reverb for playing back the sound of a tree falling in the forest? -- Les Cargill |
#15
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With respect to classical music, live recordings often sound better
because the recording engineer is less able to **** with the sound. You wouldn't call measure by measure and note by note editing ****ing with the sound? Correcting bad notes doesn't change the "sound" of the recording -- it changes the performance. The OP did not clarify what he meant by "sounding better". To me, that means the /sound/ -- not the performance. The OP should have said "more exciting" or "greater involvement", or something like that. |
#16
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So what's the best reverb for playing back the sound
of a tree falling in the forest? Doesn't that depend on whether the engineer was present? |
#17
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So what's the best reverb for playing back the sound
of a tree falling in the forest? Which reminds me of "Bicycle Thieves". Virtually the entire soundtrack is looped -- in an essentially dead studio. It drives me crazy. |
#18
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On Thu, 7 Oct 2010 21:59:42 -0400, gjsmo wrote
(in article ): At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? Better as in how? It's not unusual for live performances to sound "better" from a performing perspective when they capture the vibe and energy transfer between the act and the audience. If that's all you're talking about then that's a small part of better. I remember concerts by the Moody Blues and Beach Boys where the vocals were obviously not in tune. Definitely not better. Other problems may make live worse. When I was in AOR radio and we were playing albums at midnight., I spoke to a listener who said he already owned the album, but liked the way the station processing punched up the sound. (Thank you Bob Orban) Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWaPRHMGhGA |
#19
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On Oct 9, 7:16*am, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote: With respect to classical music, live recordings often sound better because the recording engineer is less able to **** with the sound. You wouldn't call measure by measure and note by note editing ****ing with the sound? Correcting bad notes doesn't change the "sound" of the recording -- it changes the performance. The OP did not clarify what he meant by "sounding better". To me, that means the /sound/ -- not the performance. The OP should have said "more exciting" or "greater involvement", or something like that. Good point. I'll say that I THINK it's the sound, but I can't be sure. A good example of what I'm talking about is You Shook Me All Night Long: Live: http://dream.maker303.free.fr/music/shook.mp3 Studio: http://davewhitman.com/Music/My%20Mu...0-%20AC-DC.mp3 There are better ones, but this seems to be the best example of what I'm thinking of off the top of my head. In general, the good live albums have a certain on-going quality that isn't there in studio albums. Maybe it's the audience cheering, maybe it's the amps being cranked farther, but they have a certain intangible quality which escapes me. I suppose it's possible that this only happens in live performances, but I'm just wondering why. |
#20
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Les Cargill wrote:
gjsmo wrote: At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? The audience brings the show. The band just acts as a fuse. -- Les Cargill That can be a huge part of it. Audients can be inspiring. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman |
#21
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gjsmo writes:
-snips - There are better ones, but this seems to be the best example of what I'm thinking of off the top of my head. In general, the good live albums have a certain on-going quality that isn't there in studio albums. Maybe it's the audience cheering, maybe it's the amps being cranked farther, but they have a certain intangible quality which escapes me. I suppose it's possible that this only happens in live performances, but I'm just wondering why. Live performance energy can mean a lot for the "vibe". But purely for the sonic signature aspect, sometimes it's just the additional bleed between mics in a "bigger" acoustical setting that adds sonic "dimension." 99% of my work is on location; I use this all the time -- not that I don't mic for isolation and control when doing non-classical work, but when bleed does happen I don't wring my hands; I figure out how to use it beneficially. This usually means fiddling with channel delays, adding reverb differently than had the tracks been completely isolated and dry, and so on. I do have one client who complains he can't use autotune effectively if there's bleed. Response #1: Awwwwwww, darn... Response #2: "No worries, man, it's called 'chorusing'..." Frank Mobile Audio -- |
#22
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William Sommerwerck wrote:
So what's the best reverb for playing back the sound of a tree falling in the forest? Which reminds me of "Bicycle Thieves". Virtually the entire soundtrack is looped -- in an essentially dead studio. It drives me crazy. If you mean "The Bicycle Thief," that is done deliberately to make it like a 1950s Italian film. It was standard practice back then to film MOS and dub, since it would regularly be dubbed into multiple languages anyway. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#23
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So what's the best reverb for playing back the sound
of a tree falling in the forest? Which reminds me of "Bicycle Thieves". Virtually the entire soundtrack is looped -- in an essentially dead studio. It drives me crazy. If you mean "The Bicycle Thief," that is done deliberately to make it like a 1950s Italian film. It was standard practice back then to film MOS... "Mit out sound", for those who are unfamiliar. ...and dub, since it would regularly be dubbed into multiple languages, anyway. Actually, the correct title is "Bicycle Thieves". I don't like it, because it misses the irony of the "original" English title. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_Thieves There is also a parody I've never seen, "The Icicle Thief". |
#24
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gjsmo wrote:
Huh? You mean that what I hear isn't what was at the concert? THEY LIE! Lying is what recording is all about. I remember working a concert in a horrible stadium once, and a friend came from the audience and got into the recording truck and listened to the rough monitor mix. He said, "Wow, it sounds a lot better in here than it does in there." Done right, everything about the live album should sound better than the concert, beginning with the control of the hall acoustics. You can overdub vocals that were screwed up, and you can edit several performances together to get the bass solo from one day and the drum solo from another day. But you _still_ get the energy and the immediacy of the live performance even so. I think it's the best way to record when you have a band that can really play together and is actually tight. When a band _isn't_ tight, though, there's really no way to fix it because the amount of leakage just makes cut and paste work impossible. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#25
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hank alrich wrote:
William Sommerwerck wrote: "gjsmo" wrote in message ... At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? What kind of music? "Better" in what way? With respect to classical music, live recordings often sound better because the recording engineer is less able to **** with the sound. You wouldn't call measure by measure and note by note editing ****ing with the sound? It is _really_ hard to do that with live classical recordings the way it is commonly done with studio classical stuff. I can often patch together pieces from two different performances but invariably the noise floors are different due to the different audiences. With a lot of orchestras the tone is not quite the same from day to day either, so it can be hard to keep it from sticking out. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#27
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gjsmo wrote:
At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? A recording where all instruments plays simultanously has the sound of all instruments influencing the sound of all instruments and that makes all instruments sound a lot more interesting. Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#28
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![]() "Peter Larsen" wrote in message k... gjsmo wrote: At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? work mosdtly in lIVE production and I loath when someone wants me to play thier "live" recording, mostly done as a direct to two track bootleg, not professional multitracked and mixed down IMO the results are almost always unlistenable the exception being samll theater acoustic artists george |
#29
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George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:
work mosdtly in lIVE production and I loath when someone wants me to play thier "live" recording, mostly done as a direct to two track bootleg, not professional multitracked and mixed down IMO the results are almost always unlistenable Yeah, but that's not because they are recordings of live events, that is because they are bizarre mixes that bear no actual resemblance to the live event. It's not so bad with huge stadium acts where everything is in the PA because the audience is unable to hear the backline directly; there the FOH feed usually reflects the sound in the house reasonably well. Also, of course.... you may have noticed that most live sound is really awful. You record awful sound, you get an awful recording. And so much of it is awful. the exception being samll theater acoustic artists Even with a guitar and vocal act, the board tape is apt to be vocal-heavy since the guitar makes so much direct sound in the hall. But it's certainly harder to mess up when you only have two channels. Also the acoustic acts may care about their PA quality more. Or maybe not. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#30
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![]() Also, of course.... you may have noticed that most live sound is really awful. You record awful sound, you get an awful recording. And so much of it is awful. I think this is where I was pointing to. George |
#31
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George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:
Also, of course.... you may have noticed that most live sound is really awful. You record awful sound, you get an awful recording. And so much of it is awful. I think this is where I was pointing to. Well, it's a shame that the recording sounds so awful. But it's even worse that people paid money for tickets to listen to something awful. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#32
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in my opinion, the reason they sound "better" is the live energy. I
love listening to live recordings, although they almost invariably inferior in terms of sonic quality. And studio recording are generally better sonically, but lack the energy, excitement, and un- self-consciousness of a live performance in front of an audience. i doubt re-recording a studio session in an auditorium will help you achieve what you're looking for. On Oct 24, 5:13*am, "Peter Larsen" wrote: gjsmo wrote: At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? |
#33
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![]() On 2010-10-24 said: Also, of course.... you may have noticed that most live sound is really awful. You record awful sound, you get an awful recording. And so much of it is awful. I think this is where I was pointing to. OF course, but even if the live sound is great the requirements for a good recording and what's needed for the butts in the seats are totally different. The same mic placement for capturing an element might not even be right. Richard webb, replace anything before at with elspider ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com |
#34
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"jonothon" wrote in message
in my opinion, the reason they sound "better" is the live energy. I love listening to live recordings, although they almost invariably inferior in terms of sonic quality. And studio recording are generally better sonically, but lack the energy, excitement, and un- self-consciousness of a live performance in front of an audience. i doubt re-recording a studio session in an auditorium will help you achieve what you're looking for. Agreed. The live versus studio comparison is where your personal values show. Do you favor sound quality over musical quality, and what are the musical qualities that you favor the most? I can't state a global preference because any pair of recordings can go either way. I like the energy and teamwork of live, but sometimes the carefully thought out, carefully planned, carefully played and carefully edited studio work can be very pleasing. Studio work where all the musicans actually play together can be very good. A live concert where the band and venue are well-prepared can also be very good. Sometimes everything seems to be technically wrong, but the musicans come together and do something that is beautiful and even exceptional. If we could all predict and control when great music was going to happen, many of us wouldn't have time to post on Usenet! ;-) |
#35
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Il 08/10/2010 3.59, gjsmo ha scritto:
At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? IMHO they sound "better" because the correct ambience which help things to sound more natural even with mix errors. |
#36
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alex wrote:
Il 08/10/2010 3.59, gjsmo ha scritto: At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? IMHO they sound "better" because the correct ambience which help things to sound more natural even with mix errors. Also there is live in studio and live In Concert, the difference being the interaction with the audience. Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#37
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![]() "Peter Larsen" wrote in message k... alex wrote: Il 08/10/2010 3.59, gjsmo ha scritto: At the risk of sounding like the newbie I am (you didn't hear that), why do live recordings always sound "better" than studio recordings, even with mix level errors, people coughing or yelling, and absence of the numerous overdubbings/effects such as one hears in songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Additionally, can I re-create this sound - maybe playing back a studio recording in an auditorium, and recording that? IMHO they sound "better" because the correct ambience which help things to sound more natural even with mix errors. Also there is live in studio and live In Concert, the difference being the interaction with the audience. Kind regards Peter Larsen I am not aware of any mass marketed "live" albums of popular music that was not a assemblage of multi tracks from dozens of concerts mixed, remixed and edited until the final result bore no resemblence to any one actual live concert bootlegs are another story. George |
#38
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George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:
I am not aware of any mass marketed "live" albums of popular music that was not a assemblage of multi tracks from dozens of concerts mixed, remixed and edited until the final result bore no resemblence to any one actual live concert bootlegs are another story. Well, some of them were 2-track mixes that were then spliced together into something simulating but not representing a concert. How was the Steppenwolf Live album done? That has some of the most glaringly obvious edits, but the performances are stunning. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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