i ordered a piece of music merchandise. it is defective. my idea is
that they should pay for the return shipping since it's not my fault
they shipped me a lame item.

they're saying they don't do that.

what do you think's fair?

it's a small shipping cost, so i'm not going to "sweat the small
stuff". but it does leave a bad taste in my mouth. i did my job by
ordering the correct item, providing the correct shipping address, and
paying in a timely manner with legitimate funds. why is it *my*
responsibility to compensate for their not delivering a satisfactory
product?

"xy" wrote in message
...
i ordered a piece of music merchandise. it is defective. my idea is
that they should pay for the return shipping since it's not my fault
they shipped me a lame item.

they're saying they don't do that.

what do you think's fair?

it's a small shipping cost, so i'm not going to "sweat the small
stuff". but it does leave a bad taste in my mouth. i did my job by
ordering the correct item, providing the correct shipping address, and
paying in a timely manner with legitimate funds. why is it *my*
responsibility to compensate for their not delivering a satisfactory
product?

I believe it "is " your responsibility
if you got a defective unit from a local store would you "expect" them to
come to your house to get it?

Some stores have policies thatmake allowences for defective returns, call
tags and such
usually with a little sugar in your approach you can get this
George

"George Gleason" wrote in message
I believe it "is " your responsibility

No, it's your resposibility to find out, but I'm with Brian: if they make
me pay shipping on a damaged item then I probably won't buy from them.
There are plenty of online vendors out there who have FedEx accounts set up
just for that. I got an extra item from Musician's Friend once, I called
them, they gave me an ID number and an e-mail, I printed an e-mail, taped
the label on the box, and shipped the item out.

if you got a defective unit from a local store would you "expect" them to
come to your house to get it?

You're comparing apples and oranges. If I had to pay money to bring the
item home (other than gas money which isn't near the cost of shipping,
unless you're buying in another town) then I would expect to be reimbursed
for the trip home.

"Thomas Bishop" wrote in message
...
"George Gleason" wrote in message
I believe it "is " your responsibility

No, it's your resposibility to find out, but I'm with Brian: if they make
me pay shipping on a damaged item then I probably won't buy from them.
There are plenty of online vendors out there who have FedEx accounts set
up
just for that. I got an extra item from Musician's Friend once, I called
them, they gave me an ID number and an e-mail, I printed an e-mail, taped
the label on the box, and shipped the item out.

if you got a defective unit from a local store would you "expect" them
to
come to your house to get it?

You're comparing apples and oranges. If I had to pay money to bring the
item home (other than gas money which isn't near the cost of shipping,
unless you're buying in another town) then I would expect to be reimbursed
for the trip home.


but you are buying from another town when you by mail order
It is the responsibility of the buyer to know the return policy before the
purchase
not to assume that what one vendor offers as a value added service is a
universial right
I buy from both dealers that will do anything i ask and those that won't It
all depends on the product
George

Different shops have different policies.

Just for reference I got an item from Mercenary Audio once that after a
couple weeks I realized had a defective switch. I called Mercenary and the
lady I talked to was very nice and her main concern seemed to be getting my
problem resolved as quickly as possible with the least possible hassle and
down time for me. She put me on hold for a couple minutes and when she came
back she said that they didn't have any in stock but that the manufacturer
had some. She said they would have the manufacturer drop ship me a
replacement ASAP and when I installed the replacement and it checked out OK,
just give her a call and she would issue a call tag that I could attach to
the defective unit to send it back. There was no cost for shipping charges
or anything else. Complete awesome service!

It's too bad that Mercenary doesn't sell vehicles and homes.

John L Rice


"xy" wrote in message
...
i ordered a piece of music merchandise. it is defective. my idea is
that they should pay for the return shipping since it's not my fault
they shipped me a lame item.

they're saying they don't do that.

what do you think's fair?

it's a small shipping cost, so i'm not going to "sweat the small
stuff". but it does leave a bad taste in my mouth. i did my job by
ordering the correct item, providing the correct shipping address, and
paying in a timely manner with legitimate funds. why is it *my*
responsibility to compensate for their not delivering a satisfactory
product?

In article writes:

i ordered a piece of music merchandise. it is defective. my idea is
that they should pay for the return shipping since it's not my fault
they shipped me a lame item.

they're saying they don't do that.

Well, you could carry it in. It's conventional that you pay all
shipping costs for any mail order transaction no matter whose fault it
is that you have to ship it more times than you expected. Some dealers
will do you a favor if they feel guilty, but most don't have enough
margin to absorb the cost.

1. You most likely did some shopping and bought from the cheapest
place on the net you could find.

2. You probably didn't pay sales tax, and you were happy to pay for
shipping because you didn't have to pay sales tax.

Those are two reasons why they probably can't afford to pay the
shipping on an item that you return. It isn't their fault that it was
defective either. Maybe you can get the manufacturer to reimburse you
(when hell freezes over).



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

In article znr1064112952k@trad, says...
It's conventional that you pay all
shipping costs for any mail order transaction no matter whose fault it
is that you have to ship it more times than you expected.

Conventional, but not necessarily legal. Most versions of the Uniform
Commercial Code I've seen make it clear that it is the seller's
responsibility to not only pay for, but arrange the return shipping -
all the buyer has to do is reject the merchandise, which can be done
"within a reasonable time after...delivery". And in some states (MA
being one), the buyer *cannot* waive their rights no matter what the
terms of sale say.

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?

"Jay Levitt" wrote in message
...
In article znr1064112952k@trad, says...
It's conventional that you pay all
shipping costs for any mail order transaction no matter whose fault it
is that you have to ship it more times than you expected.

Conventional, but not necessarily legal. Most versions of the Uniform
Commercial Code I've seen make it clear that it is the seller's
responsibility to not only pay for, but arrange the return shipping -
all the buyer has to do is reject the merchandise, which can be done
"within a reasonable time after...delivery". And in some states (MA
being one), the buyer *cannot* waive their rights no matter what the
terms of sale say.

Like speeding 5 mph overthe limit may be illegal but you will not get a
lawyer or attorny general to even take your call over this
moot point
you will no more force action to get return freight off a unwilling
company than you will get your sherrif to arrest someone for passing a bad
check
worth 10$
george

No, you refuse to pay, contact your credit company, and refuse to send the
goods back unless pre-paid by them! Get bolshey, get results!


"George Gleason" wrote in message
...

"Jay Levitt" wrote in message
...
In article znr1064112952k@trad, says...
It's conventional that you pay all
shipping costs for any mail order transaction no matter whose fault it
is that you have to ship it more times than you expected.

Conventional, but not necessarily legal. Most versions of the Uniform
Commercial Code I've seen make it clear that it is the seller's
responsibility to not only pay for, but arrange the return shipping -
all the buyer has to do is reject the merchandise, which can be done
"within a reasonable time after...delivery". And in some states (MA
being one), the buyer *cannot* waive their rights no matter what the
terms of sale say.

Like speeding 5 mph overthe limit may be illegal but you will not get a
lawyer or attorny general to even take your call over this
moot point
you will no more force action to get return freight off a unwilling
company than you will get your sherrif to arrest someone for passing a
bad
check
worth 10$
george

"MH" wrote in message
...
No, you refuse to pay, contact your credit company, and refuse to send the
goods back unless pre-paid by them! Get bolshey, get results!

One reason I do not take Credit cards, I will not [pay for return freight
on some defective unit that I never even handled)(drop shipped from mfg to
end user)
I only offer items "as is where is" if you choose not to buy from me that
is fine with me, plenty of other to buy from
I do not accept returns FOR ANY REASON WHAT SO EVER
this is VERY clearly stated and acknowledged by any one i do business with
and yes thank you I am doing very well
George

You must have some fantastic prices to do well with a policy like that.
Do
you have a website?

I do but they are quoted at time of sale
I sell factory authorized
Community
QSC
Radial(JDI peopele)
Se Electronics(chinese mics)
CBI cables
SlS Loudspeakers
Belisle acoustic labs
radian
On-Stage stands
Audio-Technica(though mass merchendisers get well under my cost and can sell
chaeper while making more onAT products)
and thinking about taking on Phonic
I sell what I use and give as honest as I can opinion of if it fits your
needs

George

"George Gleason" wrote in message
...
and thinking about taking on Phonic

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Phildo

"Phildo" wrote in message
...

"George Gleason" wrote in message
...
and thinking about taking on Phonic


Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Phildo

I can't afford to buy in to behringer as a dealer and I need someting for
old folks home and boy scout troops to buy
there is a market for just about everything that is sold

George

In article Banbb.148243$0v4.10960423@bgtnsc04-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net, says...
I will not [pay for return freight
on some defective unit
[snip]
I do not accept returns FOR ANY REASON WHAT SO EVER

and, later...

Se Electronics(chinese mics)

and, still later...

I need someting for
old folks home and boy scout troops to buy

Do you *really* want to be known as "the guy who sells Chinese mics to
Boy Scouts and the elderly and refuses to accept defective returns"?


--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?

"John L Rice" wrote in message
...
Just for reference I got an item from Mercenary Audio once that after a
couple weeks I realized had a defective switch. I called Mercenary and
the
lady I talked to was very nice and her main concern seemed to be getting
my
problem resolved as quickly as possible with the least possible hassle and
down time for me. She put me on hold for a couple minutes and when she
came
back she said that they didn't have any in stock but that the manufacturer
had some. She said they would have the manufacturer drop ship me a
replacement ASAP and when I installed the replacement and it checked out
OK,
just give her a call and she would issue a call tag that I could attach to
the defective unit to send it back. There was no cost for shipping
charges
or anything else. Complete awesome service!

What else would you expect from Fletcher? One of the nicest guys in pro
audio.

Phildo

wow, i never thought i'd find a reasoning fault in one of Mr. Rivers
arguments! My not paying sales tax due to it being an out-of-state
sale has *nothing* to do with their margins. How does a company make
money off of a state tax? I've never heard of such an accounting
procedure.

Also, I don't know if it's the cheapest on the net. It was reasonably
priced and met my needs, so I went through with the purchase. It was
a low-ticket item, so it wouldn't make sense to chew up 20 minutes to
save a few dollars.




1. You most likely did some shopping and bought from the cheapest
place on the net you could find.

2. You probably didn't pay sales tax, and you were happy to pay for
shipping because you didn't have to pay sales tax.

Those are two reasons why they probably can't afford to pay the
shipping on an item that you return. It isn't their fault that it was
defective either. Maybe you can get the manufacturer to reimburse you
(when hell freezes over).

In article writes:

Conventional, but not necessarily legal. Most versions of the Uniform
Commercial Code I've seen make it clear that it is the seller's
responsibility to not only pay for, but arrange the return shipping -
all the buyer has to do is reject the merchandise, which can be done
"within a reasonable time after...delivery".

It depends on how strongly you feel about this. You don't really want
to "reject the merchandise", you want to reject THAT merchandise and
get a replacement (which of course costs the seller even more money).
But some are nice and some aren't. Same with customers.

Best policy is not to buy anything mail order that's expensive enough
to ship that you would worry about the cost if you had to pay it
again.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

(xy) wrote:

Also, I don't know if it's the cheapest on the net. It was reasonably
priced and met my needs, so I went through with the purchase. It was
a low-ticket item, so it wouldn't make sense to chew up 20 minutes to
save a few dollars.

Yes, that's time much better spent bitching on the internet.

Were you aware of the store's policy before you purchased? If not,
then that's your fault. If you were aware, then, well, it's your
fault, too.

On a related note, make sure you're 100% right before you play the
"deny the credit card charge" game. You will really damage your
credit if you lose a dispute.

--Erik

In article writes:

I can't afford to buy in to behringer as a dealer and I need someting for
old folks home and boy scout troops to buy

there is a market for just about everything that is sold

That's the crucial thing, and it's what keeps the best and the worst
of them in business.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

In article writes:

wow, i never thought i'd find a reasoning fault in one of Mr. Rivers
arguments! My not paying sales tax due to it being an out-of-state
sale has *nothing* to do with their margins. How does a company make
money off of a state tax? I've never heard of such an accounting
procedure.

It's not an issue of making money. I only mentioned not paying sales
tax as one powerful incentive to buy mail order rather than to buy
locally. Sales tax has nothing to do with the dealer's selling policy,
but it has a lot to do with the customer's buying policy in some
cases. However, by not having to charge you sales tax, the dealer
actually may save himself some paperwork since he doesn't have to
collect and send out money, only document out-of-state sales.

Also, I don't know if it's the cheapest on the net. It was reasonably
priced and met my needs, so I went through with the purchase. It was
a low-ticket item, so it wouldn't make sense to chew up 20 minutes to
save a few dollars.

I don't know you and I don't know your buying habits. However I DO
read this newsgroup and I know that many people DO scour the net for
the lowest price, and use the resoruces of this newsgroup and others
to help them locate the best price. Others have their favorite dealers
who just feel like they're being treated well there and order whatever
they can from those dealers. One of the things that can make you feel
good is to know that you won't have to spend any money chasing after a
DOA piece of grar. And one of the things at a dealer may do for a
regular customer is to offer free return shipping when necessary even
if the company policy is to not do so, or for for the salesman to use
his discretion.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

xy wrote:

i ordered a piece of music merchandise. it is defective. my idea is
that they should pay for the return shipping since it's not my fault
they shipped me a lame item.

they're saying they don't do that.

Ahhh... you have encountered one of the small minded/dumbass/no ****ing
brains dealers that has not even the slightest clue of how little good
public relations costs in relation to **** poor public relations.

The cornerstone of effective public relations is to gain 'goodwill,
acceptance, and understanding for your product or service'... but these
chuckleheads are nickel and dime idiots who have no idea that the goodwill
they've just burned is worth a hell of a lot more than the price of a UPS
"call tag". In the world of 'low margin/high volume' discount sales there
are a few who "get it", and more like the idiots with whom you're dealing
that will cut their hand off to save an overhead expense...

Unfortunately, there are no laws against being a moron [nor having dumbass
return policies]... so there is nothing you can do except suck it up and
pay the return freight for the defective unit... but in the grand scheme
of things... you'll know better next time and will most likely shop
elsewhere.

Sorry to hear of your struggles...
--
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio
TEL: 508-543-0069
FAX: 508-543-9670
http://www.mercenary.com
"this is not a problem"

you'll know better next time and will most likely shop
elsewhere.

Sorry to hear of your struggles...

two sides to every coin
I respect the fact you offer a high level of privledges to your customers
I am not courting customes I already have as many orders as I have time to
deal with
I do not need or desire more sales volume than I am currently handleing

hence my policies are best for me as a seller
and best for my buyers (who appreciate my upfrontness about what I will and
won't do)
for people who need more I will gladly refer them to you
George

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1064195019k@trad...

In article
writes:

wow, i never thought i'd find a reasoning fault in one of Mr. Rivers
arguments! My not paying sales tax due to it being an out-of-state
sale has *nothing* to do with their margins. How does a company make
money off of a state tax? I've never heard of such an accounting
procedure.

It's not an issue of making money. I only mentioned not paying sales
tax as one powerful incentive to buy mail order rather than to buy
locally. Sales tax has nothing to do with the dealer's selling policy,
but it has a lot to do with the customer's buying policy in some
cases. However, by not having to charge you sales tax, the dealer
actually may save himself some paperwork since he doesn't have to
collect and send out money, only document out-of-state sales.


Zzounds.com makes it a point to mention on their home page that there's no sales
tax (except in New Jersey.) Free shipping, too.

Their return policy is golden, too. If there's a defect, they pay shipping.
Those are three reasons they're in line for selling us eight QSC PLX3002
amplifiers.

John