killermike wrote:

I would like to propose the creation of a new newsgroup explicitly for
the discusion of amateur/home studio recoring called alt.music.home-
recording.

And why is alt.music.4-track not suitable for your purposes?

What do you figure another group could offer that is not already offered
by existing froups?

There is a certain amount of expertise around; how thinly would you like
it spread?

RAP has no problem with dicussions of home or amateur recording and
production work. We be fine with that.

alt.music.4-track is loaded with people using stuff that has moved
beyond the implied limitations of the group name, and loaded with the
expertise you seek to enjoy.

Why not get to asking questions and skip the new group thing? Aren't
there almost enough groups in Usenet now? g

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

In this place, LeBaron & Alrich was recorded as saying ...
killermike wrote:

I would like to propose the creation of a new newsgroup explicitly for
the discusion of amateur/home studio recoring called alt.music.home-
recording.

And why is alt.music.4-track not suitable for your purposes?

What do you figure another group could offer that is not already offered
by existing froups?

There is a certain amount of expertise around; how thinly would you like
it spread?

RAP has no problem with dicussions of home or amateur recording and
production work. We be fine with that.

alt.music.4-track is loaded with people using stuff that has moved
beyond the implied limitations of the group name, and loaded with the
expertise you seek to enjoy.

Why not get to asking questions and skip the new group thing? Aren't
there almost enough groups in Usenet now? g


Hank - I think I just heard the sound of a nail being hit on the head

--
George {ò¿ó}

Newcastle, England
(please remove leading 'x' from email address to reply, thanks)

Problems worthy of attack
Prove their worth, by hitting back - Piet Hein

In article ,
says...
killermike wrote:

I would like to propose the creation of a new newsgroup explicitly for
the discusion of amateur/home studio recoring called alt.music.home-
recording.

And why is alt.music.4-track not suitable for your purposes?

For the reasons I stated.

What do you figure another group could offer that is not already offered
by existing froups?

A decent amount of traffic.


There is a certain amount of expertise around; how thinly would you like
it spread?

I would like it applied more efficiently than it is now.

RAP has no problem with dicussions of home or amateur recording and
production work. We be fine with that.

RAP is difficult to read as it is overloaded with traffic.

alt.music.4-track is loaded with people using stuff that has moved
beyond the implied limitations of the group name, and loaded with the
expertise you seek to enjoy.

It's not 'loaded' it's a very low traffic group.

Why not get to asking questions and skip the new group thing? Aren't
there almost enough groups in Usenet now? g

So your argument against the a new group of this type is that there are
too many groups at the moment?

--
***Please remove the word not from my email address to reply.

killermike wrote:

says...

killermike wrote:

I would like to propose the creation of a new newsgroup explicitly for
the discusion of amateur/home studio recoring called alt.music.home-
recording.

And why is alt.music.4-track not suitable for your purposes?

For the reasons I stated.

Insufficient evidence, IMO.

What do you figure another group could offer that is not already offered
by existing froups?

A decent amount of traffic.

Beg pardon? alt.music.4-track & rec.audio.pro together haven't enough
traffic for you?

There is a certain amount of expertise around; how thinly would you like
it spread?

I would like it applied more efficiently than it is now.

Good luck.

RAP has no problem with dicussions of home or amateur recording and
production work. We be fine with that.

RAP is difficult to read as it is overloaded with traffic.

RAP is easy to read for those who have filter-capable newreaders and can
figure out how to configure them.

alt.music.4-track is loaded with people using stuff that has moved
beyond the implied limitations of the group name, and loaded with the
expertise you seek to enjoy.

It's not 'loaded' it's a very low traffic group.

Any group that gets Harvey Gerst's participation is _loaded with
expertise_, period. Reality might be that as the available systems have
moved beyond original parameters golkds from am4t have moved over to
RAP, where they are most welcome.

Why not get to asking questions and skip the new group thing? Aren't
there almost enough groups in Usenet now? g

So your argument against the a new group of this type is that there are
too many groups at the moment?

My argument is that the forums to talk about what you suggest are right
her in Usenet already; hence, there is little sense in creating another
group. YMMV.

--
ha

George Perfect wrote:
In this place, LeBaron & Alrich was recorded as saying ...

killermike wrote:


I would like to propose the creation of a new newsgroup explicitly for
the discusion of amateur/home studio recoring called alt.music.home-
recording.

And why is alt.music.4-track not suitable for your purposes?

What do you figure another group could offer that is not already offered
by existing froups?

There is a certain amount of expertise around; how thinly would you like
it spread?

RAP has no problem with dicussions of home or amateur recording and
production work. We be fine with that.

alt.music.4-track is loaded with people using stuff that has moved
beyond the implied limitations of the group name, and loaded with the
expertise you seek to enjoy.

Why not get to asking questions and skip the new group thing? Aren't
there almost enough groups in Usenet now? g


Hank - I think I just heard the sound of a nail being hit on the head


I disagree. I long ago stopped reading RAP because there was so little
relevant to home recording so it was a pain to wade through a load of
uninteresting stuff, not to mention the regular flame wars. The fact
that home recording posts are split between RAP and A4T amply
demonstrates that neither group fully fullfills the need. I fully
support the idea of a home recording group.

Ian

alt.music.4-track is loaded with people using stuff that has moved
beyond the *implied* limitations of the group name, and loaded with the
expertise you seek to enjoy. [emphasis added]

There is nothing "implied" about it. It is an explicit reference to a
particular recording tool.
Therefore the vast majority of home-recording question are technically
off-topic in 4-track

The fact
that home recording posts are split between RAP and A4T amply
demonstrates that neither group fully fullfills the need. I fully
support the idea of a home recording group.

Ian

I think I just heard the sound of a nail being hit on the head

killermike wrote in
:

I would like to propose the creation of a new newsgroup explicitly for
the discusion of amateur/home studio recoring called alt.music.home-
recording. The first step in creating an alt.* hirachy group would be to
post a proposal message in alt.config. I have written a draft of the
proposal and included it below.

This subject has been discussed here before (search Google for the subject
"Is this newsgroup still relevant" to see one theread). In that particular
one, I provided some relevant information that you might want to look over;
you can find it he http://makeashorterlink.com/?V1CA234E5

The most salient point is that it's not that hard to create a new alt...
gropu, but for it to be useful it's got to propagate which may take
considerably more grass level work.

I can still find 4-tracks in the Musician's Friend catalog. Hell, I've
just used my own within the last 2 weeks.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but I'm skeptical of the value.

Dave L

Ian Bell wrote:

I long ago stopped reading RAP because there was so little
relevant to home recording so it was a pain to wade through a load of
uninteresting stuff, not to mention the regular flame wars.

You read a forum but don't ask the questions to which you seek answers?
You just hope someone else asks those so you can learn something?

At this point in time a whole lot of the pros are also recording stuff
at home, and RAP deals with that regularly. But if you have "home"
recording quesitons, why not _ask them_? There are some well informed,
vastly experienced, articulate and generous audio humans here. They
might have an answer or too if you have a quesiton or one.

They may or may not follow you to another group.

The fact that home recording posts are split between RAP and A4T amply
demonstrates that neither group fully fullfills the need. I fully support
the idea of a home recording group.

Unless you get some experienced participants it's likely to be one
ignoranti leading another to nowhere worthwhile. If that kind of jabber
appeals to you, groovy, but I can't see how it would lead to a higher
quality of information exchange.

Now, what was your question? g

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

Unless you get some experienced participants it's likely to be one
ignoranti leading another to nowhere worthwhile.

Obviously, people wil be referred to the new group and in time a decent
membership would be built up. Noone is claiming that it will be instantly
full of brainy folk begging for people to impart their knowledge onto.

Sure glad you cowboys showed up to save usenet from itself. With over
fifty thousand groups, why not add another one...

why so negative?

Amen, and given the number of home recording posts dealt with in RAP....

Thats exactly the point. Home recordings are generally not "pro" recordings

Brothermark wrote:

Amen, and given the number of home recording posts dealt with in RAP....

Thats exactly the point. Home recordings are generally not "pro" recordings

??? _Most_ "pros" nowadays have a recording setup at _home_. Lots of
"pro" work gets done at home, both in terms of livings earned and
quality achieved. Further, every single "home" recordist I know who does
not make their living in audio still aims to achieve professional level
quality. I guess I just don't understand why, if a.m.4-t seems obsolete,
"home" recording questions aren't cool for RAP. RAP gets those all the
time and it's cool. They get dealt with appropriately with good info
distributed cheaply. g

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

Brothermark wrote:

There is nothing "implied" about it. It is an explicit reference to a
particular recording tool.
Therefore the vast majority of home-recording question are technically
off-topic in 4-track


Man, I thought *I* was a nitpicker. But you're right in the sense that
you'll rarely see a phone that allows you to dial a number, and that
most Aspirin's aren't. Do you have a problem with the am4t group?


Chris

Amen, and given the number of home recording posts dealt with in
RAP....

Thats exactly the point. Home recordings are generally not "pro"
recordings

??? _Most_ "pros" nowadays have a recording setup at _home_.

We are talking about volume & nature of posts to RAP, not how many pro
recorders have home studios.

RAP has too much traffic so why not reserve RAP for strictly "pro" questions
and have a new home for amateur recording questions?

"Brothermark" wrote in message
...

Unless you get some experienced participants it's likely to be one
ignoranti leading another to nowhere worthwhile.

Obviously, people wil be referred to the new group and in time a decent
membership would be built up. Noone is claiming that it will be instantly
full of brainy folk begging for people to impart their knowledge onto.


Out of curiosity, if you're going to expend the effort anyway, why not just
refer people to alt.music.4-track? It already exists, is carried by just about
all news servers already, and is seeded with people.

There really is no big process involved in newgrouping a Usenet alt group. The
trick is getting all of the news server admins to add it. It ain't easy, believe
me.

John

"John LeBlanc" wrote in message
...

"Brothermark" wrote in message
...

Unless you get some experienced participants it's likely to be one
ignoranti leading another to nowhere worthwhile.

Obviously, people wil be referred to the new group and in time a decent
membership would be built up. Noone is claiming that it will be
instantly
full of brainy folk begging for people to impart their knowledge onto.


Out of curiosity, if you're going to expend the effort anyway, why not
just
refer people to alt.music.4-track? It already exists, is carried by just
about
all news servers already, and is seeded with people.

There really is no big process involved in newgrouping a Usenet alt
group. The
trick is getting all of the news server admins to add it. It ain't easy,
believe
me.

As simple as perpetually explaining the secret code to everybody might be,
this discussion is going to come up four or five times a year, forever,
until somebody bites the bullet and finally sets up group with a name that
works for the current state of technology. May as well do it now and start
getting news server admins on board.

We can have an election in the current newsgroups to select and seed it
with one cognoscenti, one curmudgeon, one prolific obsessive+clueless, a
spammer and two political debaters.

dtk

At this point in time a whole lot of the pros are also recording stuff
at home, and RAP deals with that regularly. But if you have "home"
recording quesitons, why not _ask them_? There are some well informed,
vastly experienced, articulate and generous audio humans here. They
might have an answer or too if you have a quesiton or one.


I agree with this. I also tend to stick to the school of thought that says
there is only recording. That is to say, the principles of how to get a
good recording and how to get a good mix etc are the same regarless of where
you are or what you're using. The _method_ may change, but the _principles_
remain the same. It's like someone saying that they coudlnt ever record a
jazz trio because all they've ever recorded is rock. We're all adaptable
people (we HAVE to be or we'd never survive in this industry), and the
knowledge we gain in the studio is just as important to someone recording at
home. As long as we can answer the questions with the information adapted
to use (which we are mostly all capable of doing).

None of us would say "I can't answer your question about home recording
because I've only worked in a studio"

Usenet already has thousands of groups. Why add another one when the
resource you need is right here and on a.m.4trk??

Unless you get some experienced participants it's likely to be one
ignoranti leading another to nowhere worthwhile. If that kind of jabber
appeals to you, groovy, but I can't see how it would lead to a higher
quality of information exchange.

This is why _another_ group would be a bad idea. Unless you can get some of
the talent that lies in here and in a.m.4trk to follow you over, it's the
blind leading the blind.

Like David said before I don¹t disagree with the sentiment but I question
the value.

J

--
josh.snider
cave.productions
416.524.6927

Chris Smalt wrote:

Brothermark wrote:

There is nothing "implied" about it. It is an explicit reference to a
particular recording tool.
Therefore the vast majority of home-recording question are technically
off-topic in 4-track


Man, I thought *I* was a nitpicker. But you're right in the sense that
you'll rarely see a phone that allows you to dial a number, and that
most Aspirin's aren't. Do you have a problem with the am4t group?

Dude, four is not enough.

--
ha

Brothermark wrote:

RAP has too much traffic

For what? For whom? I don't read every post; I don't even see some
subjects. I see the threads relating to stuff I've not filtered out and
mark what I want to read; the newsreader goes and gets me those and I'm
good to learn something.

so why not reserve RAP for strictly "pro" questions
and have a new home for amateur recording questions?

What's an "amateur recording question"?

All the pros I regard highly have a strong dose of amateur in their
approach to the craft and science of this work, given the roots of the
word. If they're lucky and smart they also make some money at it.

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

Dude, four is not enough.

Hey, three was enough for Sam Phillips, Johnny Cash and Elvis. Anybody
can make a hit with 8 tracks, it takes real talent to do it with four! ;^)

AT

--
ha

Brothermark wrote:
The fact
that home recording posts are split between RAP and A4T amply
demonstrates that neither group fully fullfills the need. I fully
support the idea of a home recording group.

Ian


I think I just heard the sound of a nail being hit on the head




So why are you holding the hammer?

Ian

LeBaron & Alrich wrote:
Ian Bell wrote:


I long ago stopped reading RAP because there was so little
relevant to home recording so it was a pain to wade through a load of
uninteresting stuff, not to mention the regular flame wars.


You read a forum but don't ask the questions to which you seek answers?
You just hope someone else asks those so you can learn something?


Hank, I have a lot of respect for you and all the other helpfull and
experienced posters to RAP and I like to think I have made my own small
contribution there in the past as well. However, as well as asking and
answering questions I like to browse a newsgroup because there are often
topics of interest and you learn lots of stuff. However, as my
interests changed RAP became less and less relevant and alt4t did not
cover them either. I am a member of several yahoo groups to do with
specific home recording products, reel to reel tape and so on, which
cover much of my intersts. Even there though there are many questions
that would be better addressed by a home recording forum of some sort.
I think there are enough like minded individuals to justify a specific
group and I fully support the idea.

Ian

dt king wrote:
"John LeBlanc" wrote in message
...

"Brothermark" wrote in message
...

Unless you get some experienced participants it's likely to be one
ignoranti leading another to nowhere worthwhile.

Obviously, people wil be referred to the new group and in time a decent
membership would be built up. Noone is claiming that it will be

instantly

full of brainy folk begging for people to impart their knowledge onto.


Out of curiosity, if you're going to expend the effort anyway, why not

just

refer people to alt.music.4-track? It already exists, is carried by just

about

all news servers already, and is seeded with people.

There really is no big process involved in newgrouping a Usenet alt

group. The

trick is getting all of the news server admins to add it. It ain't easy,

believe

me.


As simple as perpetually explaining the secret code to everybody might be,
this discussion is going to come up four or five times a year, forever,
until somebody bites the bullet and finally sets up group with a name that
works for the current state of technology. May as well do it now and start
getting news server admins on board.

Precisely, which is anther reason I fully support the creation of this
group.

Ian

"dt king" wrote in
ink.net:

"John LeBlanc" wrote in message
...


As simple as perpetually explaining the secret code to everybody might
be, this discussion is going to come up four or five times a year,
forever, until somebody bites the bullet and finally sets up group
with a name that works for the current state of technology.

I guess I'd have to concede that there is some truth to this.


May as
well do it now and start getting news server admins on board.

Maybe. I guess one lingering question is whether it's possible to "retire"
AM4T once the new group is well established.

If I appear to be on both sides of the fence, that's because I see both
sides of the argument and am somewhat ambivalent, overall.

Dave L

The fact
that home recording posts are split between RAP and A4T amply
demonstrates that neither group fully fullfills the need. I fully
support the idea of a home recording group.

I think I just heard the sound of a nail being hit on the head

So why are you holding the hammer?
Ian

Huh? I'm not holding any hammers?

Obviously, people wil be referred to the new group and in time a decent
membership would be built up. Noone is claiming that it will be
instantly
full of brainy folk begging for people to impart their knowledge onto.

Out of curiosity, if you're going to expend the effort anyway, why not
just
refer people to alt.music.4-track? It already exists, is carried by just
about
all news servers already, and is seeded with people.
John

You clearly haven't read the whole thread. Your question has been answered
at least 3 times
mark

May as
well do it now and start getting news server admins on board.

Maybe. I guess one lingering question is whether it's possible to
"retire"
AM4T once the new group is well established.
Dave L

No need to retire the 4-track group. It is still relevent because 4-tracks
are still in use by many musicians.
Mark

RAP has too much traffic

For what? For whom? I don't read every post; I don't even see some
subjects.

You don't even see some subjects. There's my answer. You might have liked to
participate in that subject that you didn't even see. Threads disappear down
the bottom of the page too quickly so that someone who only visits twice a
week misses out on lots of threads.

so why not reserve RAP for strictly "pro" questions
and have a new home for amateur recording questions?

What's an "amateur recording question"?

Are you serious?

Amateur:
"our band just made this recording in my bedroom. please let me know how we
can improve it."

Pro:
"A client is coming to my studio next week. he has a big, dirty voice. Which
of these high-end mics that I own should I use?"

Of course there might be a grey dividing line when the 2 worlds of pro & am
meet in the middle but in general its easy to define.

mark

In Article , killermike
wrote:
I would like to propose the creation of a new newsgroup explicitly for
the discusion of amateur/home studio recoring called alt.music.home-
recording. The first step in creating an alt.* hirachy group would be to
post a proposal message in alt.config. I have written a draft of the
proposal and included it below.

SNIP
Charter
I would like to propose the creation of a group called alt.music.home-
studio. The group would be for the discussion of home studio based or
other amateur recording for musicians. The group would be unmoderated
and naturally, it would discourage spam. The group would not be for
binaries but posting links to online audio files would be permitted and
encouraged.

Reason
There is, as far as I am aware, no current newsgroup for the discussion
of this topic. Most of the discussion of the subject takes place in two
somewhat inappropriate newsgroups, namely alt.music.4-track and
rec.audio.pro.

alt.music.4-track
Briefly, the '4-track' part of the name of the alt.music.4-track
newsgroup refers to a tape format which contains four discrete audio
tracks. In the early 80's manufactures started to produce 'portastudio'
devices which could record four separate audio tracks to an standard
audio cassette tape. The technology has now moved on and home studio
recording is normally done with stand alone HD based recorder or a
computer with appropriate recording software.

rec.audio.pro
Question 1.1 of the rec.audio.pro FAQ at
http://www.recaudiopro.net/FAQ/current.htm defines the purpose of the
group as:

"This newsgroup exists for the discussion of issues and topics related
to professional audio engineering. We generally do not discuss issues
relating to home audio reproduction, though they do occasionally come
up. The rec.audio.* hierarchy of newsgroups is as follows:"

The current economy and the current state of the art of electronics has
resulted in the devastation of mid-tier audio recording facilities. As a
result, more and more facilities that offer professional services are
"home-studios."

The specific location of the facility is not the issue. The differences are
in the experiental level of the operator, the equipment and the acoustic
environment. Perhaps rec.audio.budgetstudio would be a better name.

Of course my concern there is that, in talking just amongst themselves, they
would not get as much of a chance to know what truly good sound was and how
to get it. Rec.audio.pro has allowed me to learn a lot over the years. As a
result, I've been able to improve the quality of my work.

The current situation
I would estimate that around 1/4 of the traffic in rec.audio.pro is
actually off-topic because it is concerned with amateur or home studio
based recording. rec.audio.pro gets a large amount of traffic (sometimes
hitting five hundred messages a day).

I'd say 1/4 of the OT traffic on rec.audio.pro has more to do with things
completely outside of the purview of audio. I do agree that some percentage
is entry level inquiries. They come to rec.audio.pro to find answers from
more experienced folks. I don't see that as being a problem.


Some people have suggested that alt.music-4-track could be used for the
discussion of these topics but unfortunately the name is confusing, no
longer appropriate and consequently, very few people use the group.
alt.music.4-track often gets around five messages per day. This means
that a query posted to alt.music.4-track might only produce a small
handful of responses from the regulars of that group whereas
rec.audio.pro is actually difficult to read due to the huge amount of
traffic.

Numerical justification
It is difficult to provide numerical justification in the accepted way
in this case due to the nature of the subject. There are not many
keywords or phrases that can be searched for to provide proof as people
interested in the subject are apt to discuss topics as diverse (but in
keeping with subject of home recording) as DIY room modifications,
computer software, instrument recording, electronics projects,
mastering, mixing desks, synthesisers, etc so you can't really search
for it in google.

Lifetime
Interest in this subject is probably at an all time high due to recent
technological advancements in the field of computer technology. I
propose that the name alt.music.home-studio is descriptive and to a
large extent, future-proof.


Regardles of my comments, I think you're on to something.

Regards,

Ty

For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

"Brothermark" wrote in message
...

You clearly haven't read the whole thread. Your question has been answered
at least 3 times

Oh yeah, I read the whole thread. I just don't understand why rec.audio.pro is
being asked for an opinion when apparently the decision to make a new group has
already been made.

Here's what I know: when someone gets it in their head to start a new newsgroup,
it's all but impossible to persuade him such a thing is not necessary, whether
it really is or not. Read alt.config for a while and notice how many people went
ahead and created a new group after being given countless valid reasons why it
is unneccessary.

Lest you get the wrong impression, I don't care whether or not you start a new
group. I really don't. The alt hierarchy is set up to allow people just like you
and Mike to avoid the political and concensus processes involved in newgrouping
a Big 8 newsgroup. You don't need anyone's permission, you obviously aren't
interested in an opinion that varies with your own, so why are you asking for
opinions?

Just issue the newgroup control message already. The sooner you do that, the
more time you'll have to pester and beg news admins to add your new group, and
for sending booster messages until the cows come home.

John

"Brothermark" wrote in message
...

You don't even see some subjects. There's my answer.

Well, if you don't see subjects that interest you, why not start one yourself?
One of your arguments for starting this thing is that no one is asking a
question you're champing at the bit to answer? Maybe no one is asking because no
one is interested.


You might have liked to
participate in that subject that you didn't even see. Threads disappear down
the bottom of the page too quickly so that someone who only visits twice a
week misses out on lots of threads.

And, just out of curiosity, what would be your suggestion if
alt.music.multitracking (or whatever) gets so wildly popular that its traffic
exceeds that of r.a.p. today? Can we count on you to resurrect these arguments
and start a new group that doesn't have so much traffic?

As for "threads that disappear" I have three solutions: keep up, use a premium
service (mine currently has over 100,000 rap messages available) or Google
Groups.


What's an "amateur recording question"?

Are you serious?

Amateur:
"our band just made this recording in my bedroom. please let me know how we
can improve it."

Pro:
"A client is coming to my studio next week. he has a big, dirty voice. Which
of these high-end mics that I own should I use?"

An amateur is defined as "a person who engages in an art, science, study, or
athletic activity as a pastime rather than as a profession." Maybe you mean to
use the word "hobbyist" rather than amateur. Although I know lots of hobbyists
who take a professional approach to things.

If you think the bedroom-recroding questions don't get asked here on r.a.p., you
need to do some more Google research. I'd venture a guess that more of those
questions get asked here than anywhere else. And they get answered. By
professionals, often enough.

John

John LeBlanc wrote:

"Brothermark" wrote:

You clearly haven't read the whole thread. Your question has been answered
at least 3 times

Oh yeah, I read the whole thread. I just don't understand why
rec.audio.pro is being asked for an opinion when apparently the decision
to make a new group has already been made.

Bingo. Ask uf RAP thinks this is a good idea; if the answer is "no",
ignore it. Maybe they need a group after all. No real reason for anybody
here to care what answers they get.

--
ha

Ian Bell wrote:

Hank, I have a lot of respect for you and all the other helpfull and
experienced posters to RAP and I like to think I have made my own small
contribution there in the past as well. However, as well as asking and
answering questions I like to browse a newsgroup because there are often
topics of interest and you learn lots of stuff. However, as my
interests changed RAP became less and less relevant and alt4t did not
cover them either. I am a member of several yahoo groups to do with
specific home recording products, reel to reel tape and so on, which
cover much of my intersts. Even there though there are many questions
that would be better addressed by a home recording forum of some sort.
I think there are enough like minded individuals to justify a specific
group and I fully support the idea.

Ian,

I'm fine with your statements but I still have a question: what is a
question that would be specific to a "home" recording group?

I have asked that in several different ways and so far none of the folks
promoting a new group, who alledgedly seek "discussion", have
demonstrated _what is such a question_.

So how about it, folks? Are you just showing how your group will work?
You ask for discussion; you get it; the opinions are not to your liking;
you ignore the opinions offered; you get asked a specific question
pertinent to your "discussion" and you don't bother to answer.

Whaddafuk??

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

Brothermark wrote:

RAP has too much traffic

For what? For whom? I don't read every post; I don't even see some
subjects.

You don't even see some subjects. There's my answer. You might have liked to
participate in that subject that you didn't even see. Threads disappear down
the bottom of the page too quickly so that someone who only visits twice a
week misses out on lots of threads.

The reason I don't see some types of material is that _I have set my
newsreader to ignore those threads_. By choice I do not see stuff to do
with Windozer machinery, FA, sometimes FS, and a few other things.
Believe me, were I to start chiming in on non-Mac PC recording **** I'd
lose all credibility, because I know _nothing_ about it. And I think I
post enough crap in here to warrant avoiding more. My ignorance is
already well demonstrated. g

And I'm not sypmathetic to claims of too many posts. Last time I
returned from Texas there were over six thousand posts in RAP. Didn't
take me long to find out where I could help, make funny, make a mess, or
learn something. So on a daily or weekly basis it would be no trouble at
all for me to see every damned post if I wanted to.

Mind you, MacSOUP is a very handy newsreader that saves me tons of time
and handles Usenet nicely. Yeah, it cost me thirty bucks to license the
shareware, but I've now been here for years and on a per-post basis I
consider that fee fully amortized.

so why not reserve RAP for strictly "pro" questions
and have a new home for amateur recording questions?

What's an "amateur recording question"?

Are you serious?

j

Oh, of course not; that's why I am participating in this thread...

/j

Amateur:
"our band just made this recording in my bedroom. please let me know how we
can improve it."

Answer: How's it sound _to you_? Can you give folks a listen to it? If
not, what do you feel are the shortcomings of your present achievement?

Pro:
"A client is coming to my studio next week. he has a big, dirty voice. Which
of these high-end mics that I own should I use?

Answer: What do you mean by dirty? Does he growl on the bottom or does
he break-up in the midrange? Really, it's a shot in the dark to spec a
mic for something I haven't heard in a room of which I have no
experience, but can you better describe his vocal tone?

Of course there might be a grey dividing line when the 2 worlds of pro & am
meet in the middle but in general its easy to define.

Notice that in both cases insufficient information has been provided for
the questioner to get a well informed answer. So the first answers are
questions in reply, trying to spot what is important in context. This is
not because you posted both questions, but because that's how it most
often goes with any of our questions. Like Garth said so wonderfully
recent, if we knew enough to ask the question perfectly we'd already
know the answer.

Recording is recording. Doesn't make a gnat's penis worth of difference
whre it happens, though environmental aspects can apply, such as
location and outdoors work. You gots your input transducers, ways of
raising their level, places and means of storage, devices to mangle,
etc.

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

Still_Slanted wrote:

"killermike" wrote in message
...
I would like to propose the creation of a new newsgroup explicitly for
the discusion of amateur/home studio recoring called alt.music.home-
recording. The first step in creating an alt.* hirachy group would be to
post a proposal message in alt.config. I have written a draft of the
proposal and included it below.

The argument is moot anyway . . . that group (alt.music.home-recording)
already exists

Whoa, good work!

and has a post every week or so, mostly off topic.

Well, now, the add-a-groupers can fix that right away.

So what's the point here . . . obviously there's not much REAL need is
there or there would be traffic there already? Just my $.02 !

I think the point is that nobody proposing a new group looked to see,
among the 50K+ groups available, if a suitable forum was already up. And
that bangs on my point that it ain't likely another gorup would help
things.

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

"LeBaron & Alrich" wrote in message
.. .
John LeBlanc wrote:

"Brothermark" wrote:

You clearly haven't read the whole thread. Your question has been answered
at least 3 times

Oh yeah, I read the whole thread. I just don't understand why
rec.audio.pro is being asked for an opinion when apparently the decision
to make a new group has already been made.

Bingo. Ask uf RAP thinks this is a good idea; if the answer is "no",
ignore it. Maybe they need a group after all. No real reason for anybody
here to care what answers they get.

And have we ever seen this in action on r.a.p.? g

John

In article ,
says...

"Brothermark" wrote in message
...

You clearly haven't read the whole thread. Your question has been answered
at least 3 times

Oh yeah, I read the whole thread. I just don't understand why rec.audio.pro is
being asked for an opinion when apparently the decision to make a new group has
already been made.

Not at all. This thread was created to stimulate discussion about the
subject. Perhaps, we'll have to see how things stand by the end of the
week or so. Maybe longer if productive debate continues.


Here's what I know: when someone gets it in their head to start a new newsgroup,
it's all but impossible to persuade him such a thing is not necessary, whether
it really is or not. Read alt.config for a while and notice how many people went
ahead and created a new group after being given countless valid reasons why it
is unneccessary.

I think I have made good, reasoned arguments for the creation of the
group. I want to hear counter arguments, statements of agreement and
suggestions from people. Not everyone agrees with your point of view (or
mine).


Lest you get the wrong impression, I don't care whether or not you start a new
group. I really don't. The alt hierarchy is set up to allow people just like you
and Mike to avoid the political and concensus processes involved in newgrouping
a Big 8 newsgroup. You don't need anyone's permission, you obviously aren't
interested in an opinion that varies with your own, so why are you asking for
opinions?

Because if the group is created I want it to reflect the opinions and
needs of of the people who are going to use it. I want to create
something on the basis of justification and utility.

I am happy to do the 'work' involved. Although, as I indicated before,
there isn't really much 'work' involved in the process assuming that a
carefully considered and reasoned proposal is presented to alt.config.
Then, if things go smoothly, all that has to be done is the control
message possibly followed by some booster messages. If their is still
work to be done beyond that point and the thing is still worth pursuing,
I'm volunteering for that too.

Just issue the newgroup control message already. The sooner you do that, the

No. I want the group to be useful and to used.

more time you'll have to pester and beg news admins to add your new group, and
for sending booster messages until the cows come home.

John




--
***Please remove the word not from my email address to reply.
www.unmusic.co.uk

Still_Slanted wrote:
"killermike" wrote in message
...

I would like to propose the creation of a new newsgroup explicitly for
the discusion of amateur/home studio recoring called alt.music.home-
recording. The first step in creating an alt.* hirachy group would be to
post a proposal message in alt.config. I have written a draft of the
proposal and included it below.


The argument is moot anyway . . . that group (alt.music.home-recording)
already exists and has a post every week or so, mostly off topic. So what's
the point here . . . obviously there's not much REAL need is there or there
would be traffic there already? Just my $.02 !

Mike



Not on my news server and it has loads of alt.music.* entries.

Ian

In this place, killermike was recorded as saying ...
Not at all. This thread was created to stimulate discussion about the
subject. Perhaps, we'll have to see how things stand by the end of the
week or so. Maybe longer if productive debate continues.

Sheesh - how many people have to say 'boo' before you turn round?

You kicked this idea off in am4t three months ago and took it nowhere.
IIRC you got the same lukewarm reaction you are getting this time round.

Now you've chosen to take up bandwidth in rap, just for good measure
cross-posting to both the groups that fail - in some still unspecified
way - to meet your expectations.


Here's what I know: when someone gets it in their head to start a new newsgroup,
it's all but impossible to persuade him such a thing is not necessary, whether
it really is or not. Read alt.config for a while and notice how many people went
ahead and created a new group after being given countless valid reasons why it
is unneccessary.

Read the above quoted paragraph.

Then read it again. Maybe even do what is suggested.

People who have already trodden the road you intend to tread are trying
to give you good advice based on their experience.


I think I have made good, reasoned arguments for the creation of the
group. I want to hear counter arguments, statements of agreement and
suggestions from people. Not everyone agrees with your point of view (or
mine).

Each time somebody puts forward a reason for not starting a new group
you recite "but, it's a good idea".

You're obviously convinced so just get on and do it. Start your new
group and invite everyone to join in. It's the only way you'll find your
answer. Maybe it will become as popular and busy as rap - maybe you'll
get less traffic than am4t. Maybe you'll get people to answer the
questions you don't want to post in either of the existing groups. Maybe
you won't.

Nobody's preventing you starting a new group. Nobody has objected to
your choice of name. Nobody is likely to object if you post the
occasional poilte announcement in rap and am4t advertising the new
group.

You say you are willing to do all the work yourself so ... go to it!


Because if the group is created I want it to reflect the opinions and
needs of of the people who are going to use it. I want to create
something on the basis of justification and utility.

But you've already put forward your case to justify the new group.
You've had some modest support and some old farts like me who are happy
the way things are.

If you still can't make your mind up whether to do it, flip a coin.


I am happy to do the 'work' involved. Although, as I indicated before,
there isn't really much 'work' involved in the process assuming that a
carefully considered and reasoned proposal is presented to alt.config.
Then, if things go smoothly, all that has to be done is the control
message possibly followed by some booster messages. If their is still
work to be done beyond that point and the thing is still worth pursuing,
I'm volunteering for that too.

If you would just listen for a second, you might hear the good folks who
have been there and done that telling you it ain't that easy.


Just issue the newgroup control message already. The sooner you do that, the

No. I want the group to be useful and to used.

The very best of luck. Genuinely.


more time you'll have to pester and beg news admins to add your new group, and
for sending booster messages until the cows come home.

Now .. can we please get back to discussing something that might be
relevant to either am4t or rap?

Please?


--
George {ò¿ó}

Newcastle, England
(please remove leading 'x' from email address to reply, thanks)

Problems worthy of attack
Prove their worth, by hitting back - Piet Hein