[David Nebenzahl]

Question is about a Kyocera R-851 receiver, ca. 1985, 85 w./channel.
Unit is in fine condition (many capacitators have been replaced) except
for one thing: it doesn't remember radio stations.

This receiver has 7 "presets" each for AM and FM. These can be set, and
the unit will remember them so long as the power is on. Leave it
overnight and the settings are gone.

I'm ASSuming that these are stored in memory that may have battery
backing. Opening the unit reveals no such battery/cell.

Does anyone know enough about this unit to tell me what the likely
culprit is here? Any links to schematics?

Any help would be much appreciated.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[Chuck[_10_]]

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:18:03 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

Question is about a Kyocera R-851 receiver, ca. 1985, 85 w./channel.
Unit is in fine condition (many capacitators have been replaced) except
for one thing: it doesn't remember radio stations.

This receiver has 7 "presets" each for AM and FM. These can be set, and
the unit will remember them so long as the power is on. Leave it
overnight and the settings are gone.

I'm ASSuming that these are stored in memory that may have battery
backing. Opening the unit reveals no such battery/cell.

Does anyone know enough about this unit to tell me what the likely
culprit is here? Any links to schematics?

Any help would be much appreciated.


Look for a .47 to 1 Farad capacitor on the front panel. Used to do
warranty service on these and I believe that is how the back up
voltage was stored. Chuck

[David Nebenzahl]

On 4/21/2010 12:42 PM Chuck spake thus:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:18:03 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

Question is about a Kyocera R-851 receiver, ca. 1985, 85
w./channel. Unit is in fine condition (many capacitators have been
replaced) except for one thing: it doesn't remember radio stations.

Does anyone know enough about this unit to tell me what the likely
culprit is here? Any links to schematics?

Look for a .47 to 1 Farad capacitor on the front panel. Used to do
warranty service on these and I believe that is how the back up
voltage was stored. Chuck

Thanks for the quick reply.

So by "front panel" you mean the back of the front panel inside, right?
Would that be accessible from the top or bottom of the unit?


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[David Nebenzahl]

On 4/21/2010 12:58 PM David Nebenzahl spake thus:

On 4/21/2010 12:42 PM Chuck spake thus:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:18:03 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

Question is about a Kyocera R-851 receiver, ca. 1985, 85
w./channel. Unit is in fine condition (many capacitators have been
replaced) except for one thing: it doesn't remember radio stations.

Does anyone know enough about this unit to tell me what the likely
culprit is here? Any links to schematics?

Look for a .47 to 1 Farad capacitor on the front panel. Used to do
warranty service on these and I believe that is how the back up
voltage was stored. Chuck

Thanks for the quick reply.

So by "front panel" you mean the back of the front panel inside, right?
Would that be accessible from the top or bottom of the unit?

Found it. But it's not a supercap as you said; on the left side of the
front panel there's a 3-volt cell, a Sanyo marked "LF-1/2W" that says
it's a Li-Mn cell (never heard of that chemistry before). I'm going to
the local electronics store to see if they have a replacement.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[Chuck[_10_]]

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:16:35 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 4/21/2010 12:58 PM David Nebenzahl spake thus:

On 4/21/2010 12:42 PM Chuck spake thus:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:18:03 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

Question is about a Kyocera R-851 receiver, ca. 1985, 85
w./channel. Unit is in fine condition (many capacitators have been
replaced) except for one thing: it doesn't remember radio stations.

Does anyone know enough about this unit to tell me what the likely
culprit is here? Any links to schematics?

Look for a .47 to 1 Farad capacitor on the front panel. Used to do
warranty service on these and I believe that is how the back up
voltage was stored. Chuck

Thanks for the quick reply.

So by "front panel" you mean the back of the front panel inside, right?
Would that be accessible from the top or bottom of the unit?

Found it. But it's not a supercap as you said; on the left side of the
front panel there's a 3-volt cell, a Sanyo marked "LF-1/2W" that says
it's a Li-Mn cell (never heard of that chemistry before). I'm going to
the local electronics store to see if they have a replacement.
Sorry about my mistake but it's been 22 years since I worked on one.
Chuck

[Arny Krueger]

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com
On 4/21/2010 12:58 PM David Nebenzahl spake thus:

On 4/21/2010 12:42 PM Chuck spake thus:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:18:03 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

Question is about a Kyocera R-851 receiver, ca. 1985,
85 w./channel. Unit is in fine condition (many
capacitators have been replaced) except for one thing:
it doesn't remember radio stations. Does anyone know enough about this
unit to tell me
what the likely culprit is here? Any links to
schematics?

Look for a .47 to 1 Farad capacitor on the front panel.
Used to do warranty service on these and I believe that
is how the back up voltage was stored. Chuck

Thanks for the quick reply.

So by "front panel" you mean the back of the front panel
inside, right? Would that be accessible from the top or
bottom of the unit?

Found it. But it's not a supercap as you said; on the
left side of the front panel there's a 3-volt cell, a
Sanyo marked "LF-1/2W" that says it's a Li-Mn cell (never
heard of that chemistry before). I'm going to the local
electronics store to see if they have a replacement.

Yes, the mention of Lithium Manganese batteries is a bit of a flash from the
past.

A moment of silence for a technology that does not seem to have passed the
test of time.

In many cases your current problem has been circumvented by simply wiring a
2-cell AA battery holder in
parallel with the on-board cells.
would monitor the temperature of the new batteries for aI would monitor the
temperature of the AA celll for a fewessboard cell.
I would monitor the temperature of the alkaline cells
for a few minutes after installtion to ensure that there was no shorting.

This was a commonly-accepted dodge back in the old days of PCs before the CR
2021 cells became the de-facto standard.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 4/22/2010 5:54 AM Arny Krueger spake thus:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com

On 4/21/2010 12:58 PM David Nebenzahl spake thus:

On 4/21/2010 12:42 PM Chuck spake thus:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:18:03 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

Question is about a Kyocera R-851 receiver, ca. 1985, 85
w./channel. Unit is in fine condition (many capacitators have
been replaced) except for one thing: it doesn't remember
radio stations. Does anyone know enough about this
unit to tell me what the likely culprit is here? Any links to
schematics?

Look for a .47 to 1 Farad capacitor on the front panel.
Used to do warranty service on these and I believe that
is how the back up voltage was stored. Chuck

Thanks for the quick reply.

So by "front panel" you mean the back of the front panel
inside, right? Would that be accessible from the top or
bottom of the unit?

Found it. But it's not a supercap as you said; on the
left side of the front panel there's a 3-volt cell, a
Sanyo marked "LF-1/2W" that says it's a Li-Mn cell (never
heard of that chemistry before). I'm going to the local
electronics store to see if they have a replacement.

Yes, the mention of Lithium Manganese batteries is a bit of a flash from the
past.

A moment of silence for a technology that does not seem to have passed the
test of time.

In many cases your current problem has been circumvented by simply wiring a
2-cell AA battery holder in
parallel with the on-board cells.
would monitor the temperature of the new batteries for aI would monitor the
temperature of the AA celll for a fewessboard cell.
I would monitor the temperature of the alkaline cells
for a few minutes after installtion to ensure that there was no shorting.

This was a commonly-accepted dodge back in the old days of PCs before the CR
2021 cells became the de-facto standard.

Thanks, but I'm not going to sweat any of that.

Rummaging around in my battery collection, I found another similar
3-volt lithium cell. (Like a large hearing aid battery, not an axial
one.) It was good, so I soldered it in place of the old one. The
receiver works fine. I'm letting it sit a couple days without power to
confirm that the memory is being backed up.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[William R. Walsh]

Hi!

Does anyone know enough about this unit to tell me what the likely
culprit is here? Any links to schematics?

Well, I'd wonder if there is a battery compartment on the unit
anywhere. Not trying to be disrespectful or anything, just saying that
a lot of older equipment used conventional batteries (AA/AAA cells) to
keep the memory running.

I have a Pioneer SX-5 stereo receiver that uses two AA batteries.
Lifetime seems to be around a year or so.

William

[Cydrome Leader]

In sci.electronics.repair William R. Walsh wrote:
Hi!

Does anyone know enough about this unit to tell me what the likely
culprit is here? Any links to schematics?

Well, I'd wonder if there is a battery compartment on the unit
anywhere. Not trying to be disrespectful or anything, just saying that
a lot of older equipment used conventional batteries (AA/AAA cells) to
keep the memory running.

I have a Pioneer SX-5 stereo receiver that uses two AA batteries.
Lifetime seems to be around a year or so.

William

hillarious. I was just about to mention that stereo when AA batteries were
mentioned.

do you know what the weird "AM stereo" RCA jack on the back is for?

[Chuck[_10_]]

On Mon, 3 May 2010 19:35:32 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

In sci.electronics.repair William R. Walsh wrote:
Hi!

Does anyone know enough about this unit to tell me what the likely
culprit is here? Any links to schematics?

Well, I'd wonder if there is a battery compartment on the unit
anywhere. Not trying to be disrespectful or anything, just saying that
a lot of older equipment used conventional batteries (AA/AAA cells) to
keep the memory running.

I have a Pioneer SX-5 stereo receiver that uses two AA batteries.
Lifetime seems to be around a year or so.

William

hillarious. I was just about to mention that stereo when AA batteries were
mentioned.

do you know what the weird "AM stereo" RCA jack on the back is for?

It was for an AM stereo decoder. Chuck

[David Nebenzahl]

On 5/3/2010 12:51 PM Chuck spake thus:

On Mon, 3 May 2010 19:35:32 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

In sci.electronics.repair William R. Walsh wrote:

Does anyone know enough about this unit to tell me what the likely
culprit is here? Any links to schematics?

Well, I'd wonder if there is a battery compartment on the unit
anywhere. Not trying to be disrespectful or anything, just saying that
a lot of older equipment used conventional batteries (AA/AAA cells) to
keep the memory running.

I have a Pioneer SX-5 stereo receiver that uses two AA batteries.
Lifetime seems to be around a year or so.

hillarious. I was just about to mention that stereo when AA
batteries were mentioned.

do you know what the weird "AM stereo" RCA jack on the back is for?

It was for an AM stereo decoder.

Ayup.

Does anyone still broadcast AM stereo? How great an idea was *that*?


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[Audio Empire]

On Mon, 3 May 2010 16:11:49 -0700, David Nebenzahl wrote
(in article ):

On 5/3/2010 12:51 PM Chuck spake thus:

On Mon, 3 May 2010 19:35:32 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

In sci.electronics.repair William R. Walsh wrote:

Does anyone know enough about this unit to tell me what the likely
culprit is here? Any links to schematics?

Well, I'd wonder if there is a battery compartment on the unit
anywhere. Not trying to be disrespectful or anything, just saying that
a lot of older equipment used conventional batteries (AA/AAA cells) to
keep the memory running.

I have a Pioneer SX-5 stereo receiver that uses two AA batteries.
Lifetime seems to be around a year or so.

hillarious. I was just about to mention that stereo when AA
batteries were mentioned.

do you know what the weird "AM stereo" RCA jack on the back is for?

It was for an AM stereo decoder.

Ayup.

Does anyone still broadcast AM stereo? How great an idea was *that*?




Don't some AM stations broadcast in digital stereo? I read somewhere that
the recent digital tuners do both AM and FM digital.

[William Sommerwerck]

Do you know what the weird "AM stereo" RCA jack
on the back is for?

It's likely for a stereo AM adapter.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 4/21/2010 12:18 PM David Nebenzahl spake thus:

Question is about a Kyocera R-851 receiver, ca. 1985, 85 w./channel.
Unit is in fine condition (many capacitators have been replaced) except
for one thing: it doesn't remember radio stations.

This receiver has 7 "presets" each for AM and FM. These can be set, and
the unit will remember them so long as the power is on. Leave it
overnight and the settings are gone.

I'm ASSuming that these are stored in memory that may have battery
backing. Opening the unit reveals no such battery/cell.

But of course, as readers of this thread know, further investigation did
in fact reveal a battery (3-volt Li cell).

Clipped off the old cell (it was attached to the board with little
spot-welded-on "legs"). Found a very similar cell in my battery
collection (flat 3-volt Li large "hearing-aid" style cell). Soldered a
couple wires to it, soldered it to old battery connections, wrapped it
with electrical tape and tucked it into a slot behind the front panel.
The receiver now remembers all presets.

By the way, wasn't there a thread here recently about the difficulties
of soldering connections to such batteries/cells? I had no problem at
all; I cleaned up spots using fine sandpaper (320-400 grit silicon
carbide), then used my old non-lead-free solder and a clean tip on my
iron. Connection was bright and solid.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

[William Sommerwerck]

It's interesting how many expensive products (and I'm including devices that
sell or sold for over $1000) use soldered-in backup cells, rather than a
battery holder. The battery in a product that gets regular use will often
last long behind its nominal life (10 or 15 years, versus 5), but that's
still no excuse. Indeed, one of the advantages of using a socket is that you
can replace the cell /while the unit is operating/.

My hall synthesizers use a lithium coin cell for backup, and I've replaced
their soldered-in cells with sockets.