[Bret L]

Cornscala?

"What Is a Cornscala?

It is not a Klipsch speaker, but was inspired by a couple of different
Klipsch speakers. I own lots of speakers including 3 pairs of
Lascalas and a pair of Cornwalls. Used to drive me nuts listening to
Lascalas and to Cornwalls alternately. I loved the top end of the
Lascala, but did not like the fact that the Lascala has no ability to
produce really low bass. Just about nothing there below 50 hz. Now,
the Cornwalls excel in the bass area with good solid lows down into
the 30s, but with the small midrange horn, something always seemed
lacking in the higher frequencies. Just not as open and clear
sounding as the Lascala.

OK, the Lascalas are fully horn loaded and therefore are extremely
efficient. About 104 db at one watt. The Cornwall is efficient, but
not that efficient. About 100 db at one watt because the bass is a
direct radiator. That is the trade off we have. And there is always
a trade off. In the Lascala, we give up really low bass in exchange
for efficiency. In the Cornwall, we give up some efficiency for
really low bass.

I mulled over those differences for quite awhile and finally decided
to try to merge the Lascala and Cornwall into a box. I really did not
know how this would sound in the end, but I needed a "test speaker" in
the shop anyway. I wanted to be able to quickly put in a tweeter or a
mid-range driver after a repair to give it a quick listen and thought
at least this project could be used for that.

I figured the size of the bass bin to be a cube of 24 inches per side
(outside measurement). That yields an internal volume of 22.5 X 22.5
X 22.5 = 11390.6 cu. in. or about 6.59 cu. ft. or about 186.6 liters.
It is ported in the front with about 50 square inches of port. The
shelf forming the top of the port extends back 9 inches from the motor
board and is placed 3 1/4 inches above the floor of the cabinet. I
had a local cabinet shop build the cabinet out of 3/4 inch MDF. The
motor board just extends up above the bass bin enough to install the
K-401 midrange horn and a tweeter. The first of these I built
actually has cutouts for 3 tweeters. That was to allow me to use
switches to switch between two tweeters to see how well they match.
Remember, part of the reason for building the first one of these was
to be able to quickly and easily test repaired drivers.


This thing sounded so good that I almost immediately had another
cabinet built so I could have a pair. This time without the extra
tweeter slots.


So, there you have it, the Cornscala. I have all the parts to build
these except the midrange horns. For those, you would have to find a
used pair of Klipsch Metal K-400 horns or buy from Klipsch a pair of
new composite K-401 horns. You can perhaps find a rough set of
Lascalas to use to get most of the parts, or a set of Cornwall 1s.
Cornwall 1s would have all the parts except the crossovers and
midrange horns. Lascalas would have all the parts except the
crossovers.

If you want to build these with all new parts, I can provide those
parts (except for the midrange horn).

Pair of CW1526C Cast Frame Woofers $250.00

Pair of CT125 Tweeters $160.00

Pair of Atlas PD-5VH Midrange Drivers $275.00

Pair of Cornscala Crossovers $210.00


CORNSCALA II

Not being one to leave well enough alone, I starting thinking again.
I wonder if I could get all that in one box to clean it up a bit.

OK, we are not going to get that K400/K401 horn in any reasonable size
box, so the search started for a horn that would fit the box. Wanted
the biggest one I could get in there. The Pyle Pro PH-2380P would
just fit. So, that project started.

Pictures..

Cabinet is same as a Cornwall except the motor board has different
size cut out for midrange horn. Had these made out of cabinet grade
Maple plywood.

Here is a drawing of a Cornwall cabinet. This would have all the
information needed to build the Cornscala II cabinet except the
details for the cutouts on the motor board. I suggest that the person
building these first obtain the woofers, midrange horn and tweeters so
the motorboard cutouts can be made accurately using the actual drivers
and horns for the pattern.



Works very good and could be dressed up with your choice of nice
finish. Too bad, Pyle discontinued the midrange horn shortly after I
discovered it. Now the PH-800 horn I used in place of the Pyle Pro
horn has also been discontinued. We are testing more horns now (March
1, 2010) and hope to soon have another suitable horn available.

UPDATE ON MIDRANGE HORNS

Still working on this (March 6, 2010). I have a promising horn and
driver. The horn is a Selenium HM4750SLF and the driver is a Selenium
D405. This is a 2 inch horn and driver. Testing looks like it is a
good match and good for a replacement for the K-55 or Atlas PD-5VH and
any of the horns that have been used so far. You can see information
on these in the Selenium section of this website.

Still am working on finding a good 1 inch horn also. I am supposed to
have one to evaluate soon.

UPDATE March 14, 2010

I am ready to say that the Selenium D-405 is a good driver to use in a
Cornscala. I have in a couple of weeks of listening and testing on
these drivers and I think they sound very good. The typical crossover
we have been making for the Cornscala II just needs a small mod to
work with these drivers. So, as a list, the following parts apply.

Pair of CW1256C Cast Frame woofers $250.00

Pair of CT125 Tweeters $160.00

Pair of Cornscala crossovers $210.00

Pair of Selenium D405 2 inch midrange drivers $260.00

Pair of Selenium HM4750SLF 2 inch inlet horns $170.00

OR Pair of M2380 2 inch horns $130.00

Pair of support brackets for the M2380 horn and D405 driver. $10.00

To talk a bit about these two horns, they sound the same to me and
test the same. The M2380 is a copy of the JBL 2380 horn. The main
difference between these two horns is the mounting flange. The M2380
is a "flat face" horn with about a 1/2 inch thick flange. It needs to
be flush mounted with the front of the motorboard, so that will
require it to be mounted on some sort of "doubler" from the back that
extends it through the front to be flush with the front. Or, you
could make the motorboard out of thick enough material so that it
could be front mounted recessed into the motorboard. Since no one has
built a Cornscala using this horn, this will be something to be worked
out.

The Selenium horn is made to be front mounted only. It has some
"lips" that protrude from the front about 1/2 inch, which will make
installing a grill somewhat more difficult. Add the thickness of the
flange and you would have to allow about 3/4 inch distance from the
motor board to the grill fabric.

To continue this a bit, the D405 driver weighs about 18 pounds. I
have had it on both of these horns with the horns mounted on a
motorboard. Everything seems plenty sturdy mounted like that, but I
would feel better if the driver was supported from the back. The
Selenium horn comes with a bracket meant to be used between the driver
and horn as a support. The M2380 horn does not come with a bracket.
The maker of the M2380 seems to think it does not need a support for
the driver. That may be right. I think I will see about getting a
local shop to fabricate a bracket suitable to support the M2380 horn
in case some may want it.

UPDATE April 12, 2010

I now have the horn and driver support brackets for use with the
Selenium D405 and M2380 horn. Those will be $10.00 per pair."


http://www.critesspeakers.com/cornscala.html




B & K Sound, 1925 East Gum Log Rd. Russellville, AR, 72802
phone-479-967-1542

[Boon[_2_]]

On Apr 21, 6:32�pm, Bret L wrote:
Cornscala?

"What Is a Cornscala?

It is not a Klipsch speaker, but was inspired by a couple of different
Klipsch speakers. �I own lots of speakers including 3 pairs of
Lascalas and a pair of Cornwalls. �Used to drive me nuts listening to
Lascalas and to Cornwalls alternately. �I loved the top end of the
Lascala, but did not like the fact that the Lascala has no ability to
produce really low bass. �Just about nothing there below 50 hz. �Now,
the Cornwalls excel in the bass area with good solid lows down into
the 30s, but with the small midrange horn, something always seemed
lacking in the higher frequencies. �Just not as open and clear
sounding as the Lascala.

OK, the Lascalas are fully horn loaded and therefore are extremely
efficient. �About 104 db at one watt. �The Cornwall is efficient, but
not that efficient. �About 100 db at one watt because the bass is a
direct radiator. �That is the trade off we have. �And there is always
a trade off. � In the Lascala, we give up really low bass in exchange
for efficiency. �In the Cornwall, we give up some efficiency for
really low bass.

I mulled over those differences for quite awhile and finally decided
to try to merge the Lascala and Cornwall into a box. �I really did not
know how this would sound in the end, but I needed a "test speaker" in
the shop anyway. �I wanted to be able to quickly put in a tweeter or a
mid-range driver after a repair to give it a quick listen and thought
at least this project could be used for that.

I figured the size of the bass bin to be a cube of 24 inches per side
(outside measurement). �That yields an internal volume of 22.5 X 22.5
X 22.5 = 11390.6 cu. in. or about 6.59 cu. ft. or about 186.6 liters.
It is ported in the front with about 50 square inches of port. �The
shelf forming the top of the port extends back 9 inches from the motor
board and is placed 3 1/4 inches above the floor of the cabinet. �I
had a local cabinet shop build the cabinet out of 3/4 inch MDF. �The
motor board just extends up above the bass bin enough to install the
K-401 midrange horn and a tweeter. �The first of these I built
actually has cutouts for 3 tweeters. �That was to allow me to use
switches to switch between two tweeters to see how well they match.
Remember, part of the reason for building the first one of these was
to be able to quickly and easily test repaired drivers.

This thing sounded so good that I almost immediately had another
cabinet built so I could have a pair. �This time without the extra
tweeter slots.

So, there you have it, the Cornscala. �I have all the parts to build
these except the midrange horns. �For those, you would have to find a
used pair of Klipsch Metal K-400 horns or buy from Klipsch a pair of
new composite K-401 horns. �You can perhaps find a rough set of
Lascalas to use to get most of the parts, or a set of Cornwall 1s.
Cornwall 1s would have all the parts except the crossovers and
midrange horns. �Lascalas would have all the parts except the
crossovers.

If you want to build these with all new parts, I can provide those
parts (except for the midrange horn).

Pair of CW1526C Cast Frame Woofers $250.00

Pair of CT125 Tweeters �$160.00

Pair of Atlas PD-5VH Midrange Drivers $275.00

Pair of Cornscala Crossovers $210.00

CORNSCALA II

Not being one to leave well enough alone, I starting thinking again.
I wonder if I could get all that in one box to clean it up a bit.

OK, we are not going to get that K400/K401 horn in any reasonable size
box, so the search started for a horn that would fit the box. �Wanted
the biggest one I could get in there. �The Pyle Pro PH-2380P would
just fit. �So, that project started.

Pictures..

Cabinet is same as a Cornwall except the motor board has different
size cut out for midrange horn. �Had these made out of cabinet grade
Maple plywood.

Here is a drawing of a Cornwall cabinet. �This would have all the
information needed to build the Cornscala II cabinet except the
details for the cutouts on the motor board. �I suggest that the person
building these first obtain the woofers, midrange horn and tweeters so
the motorboard cutouts can be made accurately using the actual drivers
and horns for the pattern.

Works very good and could be dressed up with your choice of nice
finish. �Too bad, Pyle discontinued the midrange horn shortly after I
discovered it. �Now the PH-800 horn I used in place of the Pyle Pro
horn has also been discontinued. �We are testing more horns now (March
1, 2010) and hope to soon have another suitable horn available.

UPDATE ON MIDRANGE HORNS

Still working on this (March 6, 2010). �I have a promising horn and
driver. �The horn is a Selenium HM4750SLF and the driver is a Selenium
D405. �This is a 2 inch horn and driver. �Testing looks like it is a
good match and good for a replacement for the K-55 or Atlas PD-5VH and
any of the horns that have been used so far. �You can see information
on these in the Selenium section of this website.

Still am working on finding a good 1 inch horn also. �I am supposed to
have one to evaluate soon.

UPDATE March 14, 2010

I am ready to say that the Selenium D-405 is a good driver to use in a
Cornscala. �I have in a couple of weeks of listening and testing on
these drivers and I think they sound very good. �The typical crossover
we have been making for the Cornscala II just needs a small mod to
work with these drivers. �So, as a list, the following parts apply.

Pair of CW1256C Cast Frame woofers $250.00

Pair of CT125 Tweeters $160.00

Pair of Cornscala crossovers $210.00

Pair of Selenium D405 2 inch midrange drivers $260.00

Pair of Selenium HM4750SLF 2 inch inlet horns $170.00

OR Pair of M2380 2 inch horns $130.00

Pair of support brackets for the M2380 horn and D405 driver. �$10..00

To talk a bit about these two horns, they sound the same to me and
test the same. �The M2380 is a copy of the JBL 2380 horn. �The main
difference between these two horns is the mounting flange. �The M2380
is a "flat face" horn with about a 1/2 inch thick flange. �It needs to
be flush mounted with the front of the motorboard, so that will
require it to be mounted on some sort of "doubler" from the back that
extends it through the front to be flush with the front. �Or, you
could make the motorboard out of thick enough material so that it
could be front mounted recessed into the motorboard. �Since no one has
built a Cornscala using this horn, this will be something to be worked
out.

The Selenium horn is made to be front mounted only. �It has some
"lips" that protrude from the front about 1/2 inch, which will make
installing a grill somewhat more difficult. �Add the thickness of the
flange and you would have to allow about 3/4 inch distance from the
motor board to the grill fabric.

To continue this a bit, the D405 driver weighs about 18 pounds. �I
have had it on both of these horns with the horns mounted on a
motorboard. �Everything seems plenty sturdy mounted like that, but I
would feel better if the driver was supported from the back. The
Selenium horn comes with a bracket meant to be used between the driver
and horn as a support. �The M2380 horn does not come with a bracket.
The maker of the M2380 seems to think it does not need a support for
the driver. �That may be right. �I think I will see about getting a
local shop to fabricate a bracket suitable to support the M2380 horn
in case some may want it.

UPDATE April 12, 2010

I now have the horn and driver support brackets for use with the
Selenium D405 and M2380 horn. �Those will be $10.00 per pair."

http://www.critesspeakers.com/cornscala.html

B & K Sound, 1925 East Gum Log Rd. Russellville, AR, 72802
phone-479-967-1542

I never liked the old Klipsches until I strapped a pair of Cornwalls
to my 2wpc Yamamoto Sound Craft amp. Too much power and Cornwalls, La
Scalas and K-Horns are aggressive, forward and screechy. Mate them to
a nice 2A3 or 45 amp and they're quite a treat.

[Bret L]

On Apr 21, 6:35*pm, Boon wrote:
On Apr 21, 6:32 pm, Bret L wrote:



I never liked the old Klipsches until I strapped a pair of Cornwalls
to my 2wpc Yamamoto Sound Craft amp. Too much power and Cornwalls, La
Scalas and K-Horns are aggressive, forward and screechy. Mate them to
a nice 2A3 or 45 amp and they're quite a treat.

You've been listening to those godawful EV T-35 tweeters. Put in a
decent tweeter and you don't need to crap up the signal with a single
ended amp.

It's worth noting that in the tube days PWK endorsed one amp, the
Brook, which was a triode design but was push-pull. He actually had a
mod which was a damping factor mod for the model that he preferred
which Brook offered.

IMO this type of amplifier is best for highly efficient horn
speakers, I consider single ended amplifiers good only for treble
drivers in multi-amp, active crossover systems. No one makes such a
push pull, choke driver triode amp commercially. The twiode ****s
aren't interested either.

[Boon[_2_]]

On Apr 22, 4:09�pm, Bret L wrote:
On Apr 21, 6:35�pm, Boon wrote:

On Apr 21, 6:32 pm, Bret L wrote:

I never liked the old Klipsches until I strapped a pair of Cornwalls
to my 2wpc Yamamoto Sound Craft amp. Too much power and Cornwalls, La
Scalas and K-Horns are aggressive, forward and screechy. Mate them to
a nice 2A3 or 45 amp and they're quite a treat.

�You've been listening to those godawful EV T-35 tweeters. Put in a
decent tweeter and you don't need to crap up the signal with a single
ended amp.

�It's worth noting that in the tube days PWK endorsed one amp, the
Brook, which was a triode design but was push-pull. �He actually had a
mod which was a damping factor mod for the model that he preferred
which Brook offered.

�IMO this type of amplifier is best for highly efficient horn
speakers, I consider single ended amplifiers good only for treble
drivers in multi-amp, active crossover systems. No one makes such a
push pull, choke driver triode amp commercially. The twiode ****s
aren't interested either.

Twiode ****s? Really?

Those people are having fun with audio. God bless 'em.

This whole idea that people who can't solder can't be audiophiles, or
that people who enjoy triodes are "****s" is really getting old. This
is supposed to be a fun hobby, and people like you who claim
audiophiles are killing audio are really missing the point. DIY is
only one aspect of audio...the other is the enjoyment of music.

I don't think I ever loved another amp as much as that Yamamoto, and
I've owned a lot of amps. It sounded wonderful with HE speakers; I've
never heard the human voice sound as real.

[Bret L]

It's worth noting that in the tube days PWK endorsed one amp, the
Brook, which was a triode design but was push-pull. He actually had a
mod which was a damping factor mod for the model that he preferred
which Brook offered.

IMO this type of amplifier is best for highly efficient horn
speakers, I consider single ended amplifiers good only for treble
drivers in multi-amp, active crossover systems. No one makes such a
push pull, choke driver triode amp commercially. The twiode ****s
aren't interested either.

Twiode ****s? Really?

Those people are having fun with audio. God bless 'em.

This whole idea that people who can't solder can't be audiophiles, or
that people who enjoy triodes are "****s" is really getting old. This
is supposed to be a fun hobby, and people like you who claim
audiophiles are killing audio are really missing the point. DIY is
only one aspect of audio...the other is the enjoyment of music.

I call them "twiode ****s" because although they have learned to
solder, they have no more than the most rudimentary electronics
skills, nor do they want to improve, but more importantly they are
utterly impervious to common sense. They are like Mme. d'Urfe, deluded
by the Casanovas on the sensible grounds that if he hadn't fleeced the
fools surely someone else would have.

The common single ended triode amplifier is a disaster when used full
range, but they do it and like it. The fidelity is nil. You can't tell
them that. What the three watt SET does when hooked to a normal
speaker is to compress and round off the music, coloring it greatly.

Can the triode tube give excellent fidelity when used properly? Of
course it can, and I am not disparaging it. The problem is they are
not doing so.

You can enjoy music without being an audiophile, and in fact the
great majority of music fans and musicians themselves are NOT
audiophiles per se. And you need not necessarily even be a music lover
to be an audiophile, though most are. They are two different things
you, not I, insist on confusing. But being an audiophile means having
a hands on interest in the technology, "Theorie und Praxis" so to
speak. If you just want music you can go to Best Buy and be perfectly
happy, and in fact probably ought to if audiophilia bothers you.

That is why the high end audio saloons quit sponsoring music events:
the music lovers show up and are perfectly happy with a 1980s Sansui
receiver and a pair of garage sale speakers. They buy nothing.