I'm looking for a small pair of monitors for location recording. I'd love to
get the Genelec 1029 but don't have enough business to justify them. Any one
try the Edifier, Ramble R1000 ? There's a bunch FS on ebay. They're certainly
cheap enough and look pretty good.

see link below.

ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2557199198

company site:
http://www.edifier.com/eng/products/r1000/r1000.html

(HenryShap) wrote in news:20030911030221.08239.00001009
@mb-m14.aol.com:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2557199198

Look at the specs. 15W RMS. 'SUPER BASS' control. You'd be as well off with
a 'boom box' I reckon.

(HenryShap) wrote in news:20030911030221.08239.00001009
@mb-m14.aol.com:

http://www.edifier.com/eng/products/r1000/r1000.html

Actually, just looked at the 2nd URL. 8W RMS. 'Treble upgrade of LINE-IN A:
about 9dB (@ 10kHz)' 4" Bass driver.

"HenryShap" wrote in message


I'm looking for a small pair of monitors for location recording. I'd
love to get the Genelec 1029 but don't have enough business to
justify them. Any one try the Edifier, Ramble R1000 ? There's a bunch
FS on ebay. They're certainly cheap enough and look pretty good.

see link below.

ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2557199198

Rather obviously, these are intended to be computer speakers.

Now, what do they sound like? I'm not willing to gamble $100 to find out.

Indications these are computer speakers in no particular order:

(1) Check the company's web site - they obviously specialize in making
computer speakers and nothing but. http://www.edifier.com/eng/products.html

(2) RCA jacks for inputs, not TRS or XLR

(3) Amplifier power rated in P.M.P.O.

(4) Spec sheet features a total nonsense specification - 8 ohm impedance
rating on speaker that has no actual speaker terminals that expose inputs
with that impedance.

(5) Bass tone control potentiometer. Ironically, a well-engineered bass
switch is a legitimate component of a studio monitor.

(6) Actual non-BS power rating of 15 watts is unqualified. RMS or what? No
matter, it's inadequate for a speaker as inefficient as this one has to be
if it had enough bass response for use a studio monitor.

(7) Two sets of identical input terminals.

(8) the speakers weigh about 7 pounds a piece. Small, decent studio monitors
weigh 20 pounds or more. I seriously doubt that at this price they're using
fancy magnets or carbon fiber in the enclosures to get the weight down.

I'm not saying that these speakers sound bad, just that they obviously are
computer speakers - maybe really nice ones, maybe ones that are clear and
uncolored and could be used as studio monitors. It just seems very unlikely
that they would be good general-purpose studio monitors.

I think they'd fall on their butts the first time anybody tries to get more
than 100 dB of wide-range audio out of them. It's even possible that Roland
or someone sells less capable speakers as studio monitors! But
nevertheless...

Just remember, I'm not using these to mix. Just want to give the client an idea
of how it's going. For playback between takes. Is there anything in the
$100-$200 range that'll do that?


I always check things thru my AKG 270 headphones in any case.

"HenryShap" wrote in message


Just remember, I'm not using these to mix. Just want to give the
client an idea of how it's going. For playback between takes. Is
there anything in the $100-$200 range that'll do that?

If you've got an amplifier or a receiver with decent output, look at the
small passive 2-ways that sell in the $100-200 price range. In the old days
you could get a pair of NHT S0s for under $200 regular net. I don't know
what the Y2003 equivalent is.

A few years ago I had this problem and picked up a few pairs of Infinity
2000.1 "studio monitors" on close-out for like $90 a pair (!!! did I really
do that???). I had to replace a woofer in one, but other than that everybody
who listens to them seems to be really happy with them hooked to a 70 wpc
amp (two applications) or a 100 wpc receiver (one application). They can
generally take a pretty good licking. I think the woofer started rubbing
after being dropped.

Smaller speakers like the RS Minimus series are IME too fragile. They may
live through stressful times or not, but your ears will probably not be
happy with how they take stress. I see of lot of speakers in this category
with fried tweeters.

I have one friend who has pretty critical ears, but he tracks and mixes
light rock, pop and classical with a Monsoon 1000 system. So, a true
higher-end 3-piece PC multimedia system can work for some people in some
circumstances.

While the typical computer speaker system seems to be unmitigated crap,
there are a few gems in the rough out there if your sights are set low
enough. I put in a $50 Altec Lansing 4-speaker PC system that lots of people
like to listen to, even pretty loud. It even sounds good to me.

I always check things thru my AKG 270 headphones in any case.

For tracking and mixing headphones can work. For mastering, you need other
opinions, numbered something like two through at least five. In the old days
the worst case test was probably to check and see what the recording sounded
like on an AM radio. Today, it seems valid to ask what it sounds like on a
POS computer speaker system after a trip through MP3 and cheap sound card
land.

HenryShap wrote:
I'm looking for a small pair of monitors for location recording. I'd love to
get the Genelec 1029 but don't have enough business to justify them. Any one
try the Edifier, Ramble R1000 ? There's a bunch FS on ebay. They're certainly
cheap enough and look pretty good.

Try the NHT Super Ones with an external amp.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ...
"HenryShap" wrote in message


I'm looking for a small pair of monitors for location recording. I'd
love to get the Genelec 1029 but don't have enough business to
justify them. Any one try the Edifier, Ramble R1000 ? There's a bunch
FS on ebay. They're certainly cheap enough and look pretty good.

see link below.

ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2557199198

Rather obviously, these are intended to be computer speakers.

Now, what do they sound like? I'm not willing to gamble $100 to find out.

Indications these are computer speakers in no particular order:

(1) Check the company's web site - they obviously specialize in making
computer speakers and nothing but. http://www.edifier.com/eng/products.html

(2) RCA jacks for inputs, not TRS or XLR

(3) Amplifier power rated in P.M.P.O.

(4) Spec sheet features a total nonsense specification - 8 ohm impedance
rating on speaker that has no actual speaker terminals that expose inputs
with that impedance.

(5) Bass tone control potentiometer. Ironically, a well-engineered bass
switch is a legitimate component of a studio monitor.

(6) Actual non-BS power rating of 15 watts is unqualified. RMS or what? No
matter, it's inadequate for a speaker as inefficient as this one has to be
if it had enough bass response for use a studio monitor.

(7) Two sets of identical input terminals.

(8) the speakers weigh about 7 pounds a piece. Small, decent studio monitors
weigh 20 pounds or more. I seriously doubt that at this price they're using
fancy magnets or carbon fiber in the enclosures to get the weight down.

I'm not saying that these speakers sound bad, just that they obviously are
computer speakers - maybe really nice ones, maybe ones that are clear and
uncolored and could be used as studio monitors. It just seems very unlikely
that they would be good general-purpose studio monitors.

I think they'd fall on their butts the first time anybody tries to get more
than 100 dB of wide-range audio out of them. It's even possible that Roland
or someone sells less capable speakers as studio monitors! But
nevertheless...

Here is a link to the same speakers for 14 British Pounds. Should you
really pay almost 80 bucks for someone to import them for you?
http://www.pcnextday.co.uk/product_d...ef_site=kelkoo
You might be able to get them cheaper from a latin american country,
as it seems they are not distributed in the US. Just do a google
search for Edifier R1000.

"HenryShap" wrote in message
...
Just remember, I'm not using these to mix. Just want to give the client an
idea
of how it's going. For playback between takes. Is there anything in the
$100-$200 range that'll do that?

Some little JBL Control series speakers come to mind. Or some really good
6x9 car speakers and then make a nice little cabinet for them to mount in.
You can pre-cut plywood for a couple of bucks at Home Depot. Just some
ideas...

"area242" wrote in message
...

"HenryShap" wrote in message
...
Just remember, I'm not using these to mix. Just want to give the client
an
idea
of how it's going. For playback between takes. Is there anything in the
$100-$200 range that'll do that?

Some little JBL Control series speakers come to mind. Or some really good
6x9 car speakers and then make a nice little cabinet for them to mount in.
You can pre-cut plywood for a couple of bucks at Home Depot. Just some
ideas...


Here's some Control 1's I just found on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=14 991

"HenryShap" wrote in message
...
Just remember, I'm not using these to mix. Just want to give the client an
idea
of how it's going. For playback between takes. Is there anything in the
$100-$200 range that'll do that?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=23 786

Glenn D.

Arny Krueger wrote:

(3) Amplifier power rated in P.M.P.O.

That's for "Poopy Mess Put Out". It's a special kind of quality thing.

--
ha

area242 wrote:

"HenryShap" wrote...

Just remember, I'm not using these to mix. Just want to give the client
an idea of how it's going. For playback between takes. Is there anything
in the $100-$200 range that'll do that?

Some little JBL Control series speakers come to mind. Or some really good
6x9 car speakers and then make a nice little cabinet for them to mount in.
You can pre-cut plywood for a couple of bucks at Home Depot. Just some
ideas...

Full Compass has some of those on sale right now. Hit their website for
the current specials and closeouts info.

--
ha

in article , HenryShap at
wrote on 9/11/03 03.02:

I'm looking for a small pair of monitors for location recording. I'd love to
get the Genelec 1029 but don't have enough business to justify them. Any one
try the Edifier, Ramble R1000 ? There's a bunch FS on ebay. They're
certainly
cheap enough and look pretty good.

see link below.

ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2557199198

company site:
http://www.edifier.com/eng/products/r1000/r1000.html




And a whopping 8W of total power. That¹s almost loud enough to be useful.

These strike me as being similar to the Edirol mini monitors. All around no
good for studio use.


J

Josh Snider wrote in message ...
in article , HenryShap at
wrote on 9/11/03 03.02:

I'm looking for a small pair of monitors for location recording. I'd love to
get the Genelec 1029 but don't have enough business to justify them. Any one
try the Edifier, Ramble R1000 ? There's a bunch FS on ebay. They're
certainly
cheap enough and look pretty good.

see link below.

ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2557199198

company site:
http://www.edifier.com/eng/products/r1000/r1000.html




And a whopping 8W of total power. That¹s almost loud enough to be useful.

These strike me as being similar to the Edirol mini monitors. All around no
good for studio use.


J



Josh,

Whatever you do, don't buy a no name brand without hearing it.
Additionally, check out Eventide monitors (www.eventide.com). They
have decent pricing and decent sound. (Hey, I said decent, not
Genelec).

I

Josh,

Whatever you do, don't buy a no name brand without hearing it.
Additionally, check out Eventide monitors (www.eventide.com). They
have decent pricing and decent sound. (Hey, I said decent, not
Genelec).

I

I think you mistook me for the OP. I'm certainly not looking to buy these,
I'm satisfied (for now) with my monitors. And I was comparing these to
another "multimedia" speaker from Edirol. I have forgotten the name of the
OP though. Sorry!

J

In article ,
says...

I'm looking for a small pair of monitors for location recording. I'd love to
get the Genelec 1029 but don't have enough business to justify them. Any one
try the Edifier, Ramble R1000 ? There's a bunch FS on ebay. They're certainly
cheap enough and look pretty good.

Use your head.

"Small"
"Cheap"
"Chinese"
"Any good?"

Ya think?


jim andrews
basset sound
austin, tx

(HenryShap) wrote in message ...
Just remember, I'm not using these to mix. Just want to give the client an idea
of how it's going. For playback between takes. Is there anything in the
$100-$200 range that'll do that?

Hafler M5 passives are only 99 bucks each brand-spankin'. High
handling, good crossovers, a little light on the low-end, but
nevertheless, not too shabby for the cost.

kale

In article ,
david wrote:
I am very familiar with 2 sets of headphones (AKG 240M and Grado 80's)
and I would never consider mixing (or tracking for that matter) using
just them. Would be like driving at nighttime on a winding road with
with my headlights off. Sure, I can see a little but I am def gonna hit
something.

I have heard people say this repeatedly, and for some reason today,
I'm gonna ask "why"?

I've mixed on headphones before, it's no big deal and it's nothing
really different than mixing with any sort of non-flat monitor, (which
basically means anything that actually exists). In unfamiliar rooms,
I use them often as a reference point so I can deal with the provided
monitors better.

Sure, with headphones, there's no problem with the room messing up the
stereo image, so it sounds different, but is it really _that_
different that you can't work? It seems to me that headphones get rid
of a lot of stupid things you have with speakers, like reflections off
of the console, walls and ceiling, making the job simpler.

If you don't know a monitor system, then you don't know it, be it
headphones or speakers. But, if you know how something works, and it
happens to be some headphones, what is it about headphones that makes
people say that you can't mix on them?


Maybe I'll finally understand...?

Monte McGuire

"Monte P McGuire" wrote in message
...
In article ,
david wrote:
I am very familiar with 2 sets of headphones (AKG 240M and Grado 80's)
and I would never consider mixing (or tracking for that matter) using
just them. Would be like driving at nighttime on a winding road with
with my headlights off. Sure, I can see a little but I am def gonna hit
something.

I have heard people say this repeatedly, and for some reason today,
I'm gonna ask "why"?

I've mixed on headphones before, it's no big deal and it's nothing
really different than mixing with any sort of non-flat monitor, (which
basically means anything that actually exists). In unfamiliar rooms,
I use them often as a reference point so I can deal with the provided
monitors better.

Sure, with headphones, there's no problem with the room messing up the
stereo image, so it sounds different, but is it really _that_
different that you can't work? It seems to me that headphones get rid
of a lot of stupid things you have with speakers, like reflections off
of the console, walls and ceiling, making the job simpler.

If you don't know a monitor system, then you don't know it, be it
headphones or speakers. But, if you know how something works, and it
happens to be some headphones, what is it about headphones that makes
people say that you can't mix on them?


Maybe I'll finally understand...?

It's because the transducer impedence of each side is isolated by the
density of the human cranium, thereby limiting the frequency response,
resulting in a sound pressure gap, that when divided by pi (3.14159265)
equals a bad mix.
Hell, I don't know...I say...do what works!

In article writes:

I've mixed on headphones before, it's no big deal and it's nothing
really different than mixing with any sort of non-flat monitor, (which
basically means anything that actually exists). In unfamiliar rooms,
I use them often as a reference point so I can deal with the provided
monitors better.

Sure, with headphones, there's no problem with the room messing up the
stereo image, so it sounds different, but is it really _that_
different that you can't work?

If I'm mixing something live, I can do OK with headphones, but what I
can't do (or rather, have never learned to compensate for what I hear)
is mix in artificial reverb properly. It always sounds like it's too
much when using headphones.

If the OP is mixing something constructed from pieces and effects, he
can probably learn to compensate for the apparent overabundence of
reverb in the phones, but until he learns to do so, his mixes will
probably sound sound too dry.

On the other hand, I think that good headphones vs. crummy speakers is
the lesser of two evils.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

Monte P McGuire wrote:

In article ,
david wrote:
I am very familiar with 2 sets of headphones (AKG 240M and Grado 80's)
and I would never consider mixing (or tracking for that matter) using
just them. Would be like driving at nighttime on a winding road with
with my headlights off. Sure, I can see a little but I am def gonna hit
something.

I have heard people say this repeatedly, and for some reason today,
I'm gonna ask "why"?

I've mixed on headphones before, it's no big deal and it's nothing
really different than mixing with any sort of non-flat monitor, (which
basically means anything that actually exists). In unfamiliar rooms,
I use them often as a reference point so I can deal with the provided
monitors better.

Sure, with headphones, there's no problem with the room messing up the
stereo image, so it sounds different, but is it really _that_
different that you can't work? It seems to me that headphones get rid
of a lot of stupid things you have with speakers, like reflections off
of the console, walls and ceiling, making the job simpler.

If you don't know a monitor system, then you don't know it, be it
headphones or speakers. But, if you know how something works, and it
happens to be some headphones, what is it about headphones that makes
people say that you can't mix on them?


Main thing is effects levels, as I undertsand it. I tend to also
polish up a 'phone mix, then recast the next day as needed.

I don't end up making a lot of balance changes on the cans mix,
just EQ and F/X.

Maybe I'll finally understand...?

Monte McGuire



--
Les Cargill

In article , Monte P McGuire
wrote:

In article ,
david wrote:
I am very familiar with 2 sets of headphones (AKG 240M and Grado 80's)
and I would never consider mixing (or tracking for that matter) using
just them. Would be like driving at nighttime on a winding road with
with my headlights off. Sure, I can see a little but I am def gonna hit
something.

I have heard people say this repeatedly, and for some reason today,
I'm gonna ask "why"?

I've mixed on headphones before, it's no big deal and it's nothing
really different than mixing with any sort of non-flat monitor, (which
basically means anything that actually exists). In unfamiliar rooms,
I use them often as a reference point so I can deal with the provided
monitors better.

Sure, with headphones, there's no problem with the room messing up the
stereo image, so it sounds different, but is it really _that_
different that you can't work? It seems to me that headphones get rid
of a lot of stupid things you have with speakers, like reflections off
of the console, walls and ceiling, making the job simpler.

If you don't know a monitor system, then you don't know it, be it
headphones or speakers. But, if you know how something works, and it
happens to be some headphones, what is it about headphones that makes
people say that you can't mix on them?


Maybe I'll finally understand...?




I can pass on something that happened to me 'bout 20 years ago. I had a
client coming in doing some spoken word stuff for NPR, something we had
done a bunch of times before.

I show up at my studio and 30' from my door they are jackhammering the
f&%king street!!! Of course the work had to be done and Fed Ex'd that
day, and we are talking hours of work, not something we can fit in
their breaks.

So I go into all the nooks and crannies of my former place in
Pawtucket, looking for quiet. The only place, surprise, is in the
control room. Great, I'll set up his mic there and record with
headphones while I keep real quiet.

So we do. I use the akg 240m's I know and like, get a really nice sound
with some eq and compression, and off we go. Hooray!

About a 45 minutes into it the crew outside takes a break. So I put the
1/4" half track up on the monitors (then Urei 809's in a small but very
nice control room) to give it a quick listen while the talent gets some
coffee. And to my gut-clenching horror what sounded wonderful on the
cans had a problem on the speakers. There was an offending frequency,
can't remember what it was, that was obviously a blind spot on the
240's that was quite unacceptable on the 809's.

We had to start all over again. And the talent wasn't too happy about
his wasted efforts.

Happy to say he's still a client today.




David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com