[Albie]

The consenus seems to be that the modern Plextor is not in the same
league as the older models from that company. More like the Lite-Ons.
If good 4x burners are out of production, can someone suggest a few
modern alternative burners from their own experience that will burn
audio CDs without "static" or "motorboating" artifacts on heavily
modulated passages? It should have a SATA interface if possible.
tia Albie

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Albie wrote:

The consenus seems to be that the modern Plextor is not in the same
league as the older models from that company.

The hearsay I am familiar with is that the cheaper Plextors are outsourced
to China and the premium models still are made in Japan. I'll worry about
the burner choice when I have to choose the next one.


Albie

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Richard Crowley]

"Albie" wrote ...
The consenus seems to be that the modern Plextor is not in the same
league as the older models from that company. More like the Lite-Ons.
If good 4x burners are out of production, can someone suggest a few
modern alternative burners from their own experience that will burn
audio CDs without "static" or "motorboating" artifacts on heavily
modulated passages? It should have a SATA interface if possible.

It doesn't seem possible that the disc burner drive can possibly have
anything to do with audio artifacts (content-dependent or otherwise).
I would seriously discount the source of that information.

[Dave Platt]

In article ,
Richard Crowley wrote:

The consenus seems to be that the modern Plextor is not in the same
league as the older models from that company. More like the Lite-Ons.
If good 4x burners are out of production, can someone suggest a few
modern alternative burners from their own experience that will burn
audio CDs without "static" or "motorboating" artifacts on heavily
modulated passages? It should have a SATA interface if possible.

It doesn't seem possible that the disc burner drive can possibly have
anything to do with audio artifacts (content-dependent or otherwise).
I would seriously discount the source of that information.

A bad burn can result in the sort of "static" and "motorboating", if
it's bad enough that the CD player's C1/C2 Reed-Solomon error
correction logic cannot recover the original burned data accurately.

When this happens, the CD player must mute the audio output, or
interpolate between known-good sample values, or do both of these
things. This can result in audible glitches in the music. Such
interpolations and mutings might be more audible during loud passages
than during quiet... this will depend on the severity of the defect
and on the specific muting/interpolation algorithms implemented in the
CD player.

A *really* bad burn can result in the CD player losing its
tracking-lock on the spiral, and either skipping or repeating whole
revrevrevrevrevolutions of the m!ic on the disc. That might be what
the OP is referred to as "motorboating".

In my experience, burning at moderate speeds, with high-quality blank
discs, seems to produce the best results.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

[Richard Crowley]

"Dave Platt" wrote ...
Richard Crowley wrote:
The consenus seems to be that the modern Plextor is not in the same
league as the older models from that company. More like the Lite-Ons.
If good 4x burners are out of production, can someone suggest a few
modern alternative burners from their own experience that will burn
audio CDs without "static" or "motorboating" artifacts on heavily
modulated passages? It should have a SATA interface if possible.

It doesn't seem possible that the disc burner drive can possibly have
anything to do with audio artifacts (content-dependent or otherwise).
I would seriously discount the source of that information.

A bad burn can result in the sort of "static" and "motorboating", if
it's bad enough that the CD player's C1/C2 Reed-Solomon error
correction logic cannot recover the original burned data accurately.

Those are artifacts from the *playback device* resulting from poor
data recovery (whether from a badly burned disk or whatever.)
The burner drive may be doing a very poor job of recording the
ones and zeroes, but it is NOT creating "audio artifacts". This is
the kind of "fuzzy thinking" that is misleading and causes people
to take irrelevant tangents in the pursuit of solutions.

One could make the argument that the playback device should
simply reject a disc with that many errors vs continuously muting
and unmuting like that.

[Geoff]

Dave Platt wrote:
In article ,
Richard Crowley wrote:

The consenus seems to be that the modern Plextor is not in the same
league as the older models from that company. More like the
Lite-Ons. If good 4x burners are out of production, can someone
suggest a few modern alternative burners from their own experience
that will burn audio CDs without "static" or "motorboating"
artifacts on heavily modulated passages? It should have a SATA
interface if possible.

It doesn't seem possible that the disc burner drive can possibly have
anything to do with audio artifacts (content-dependent or otherwise).
I would seriously discount the source of that information.

A bad burn can result in the sort of "static" and "motorboating", if
it's bad enough that the CD player's C1/C2 Reed-Solomon error
correction logic cannot recover the original burned data accurately.


Thanks for the CDR lesson. Amazing what regurgitating what you read
somewhere with little real understanding causes.

Um, you need to get better media, or media that better suites your burner.

geoff

[Geoff]

geoff wrote:
Dave Platt wrote:
In article ,
Richard Crowley wrote:

The consenus seems to be that the modern Plextor is not in the same
league as the older models from that company. More like the
Lite-Ons. If good 4x burners are out of production, can someone
suggest a few modern alternative burners from their own experience
that will burn audio CDs without "static" or "motorboating"
artifacts on heavily modulated passages? It should have a SATA
interface if possible.

It doesn't seem possible that the disc burner drive can possibly
have anything to do with audio artifacts (content-dependent or
otherwise). I would seriously discount the source of that
information.

A bad burn can result in the sort of "static" and "motorboating", if
it's bad enough that the CD player's C1/C2 Reed-Solomon error
correction logic cannot recover the original burned data accurately.


Thanks for the CDR lesson. Amazing what regurgitating what you read
somewhere with little real understanding causes.

Um, you need to get better media, or media that better suites your
burner.
geoff

Ooops, Sorry Dave, thought you were the OP justifying his bizzarre assertion
re CD Writers !

geoff

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Dave Platt wrote:

It doesn't seem possible that the disc burner drive can possibly have
anything to do with audio artifacts (content-dependent or otherwise).
I would seriously discount the source of that information.

A bad burn can result in the sort of "static" and "motorboating", if
it's bad enough that the CD player's C1/C2 Reed-Solomon error
correction logic cannot recover the original burned data accurately.

Which is why it is preferable to be able to test the disks, Mr. T was so
kind as to updaste my information, which was based on my understanding that
the Plextor Premium drives and Plextools Professional were the only
available and affordable "over the counter" solution to that. It is based on
test of actual burns that I learned that the lowest error rate with my
equipment was obtained by burning X16 rather than by burning X4.

In my experience, burning at moderate speeds, with high-quality blank
discs, seems to produce the best results.

Have you actually tested the outcome of the process with Plextools
Professional or comparable, if so what? - or are you guessing relative disk
quality based on "no problems in playback encountered?"

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Mr.T]

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
It doesn't seem possible that the disc burner drive can possibly have
anything to do with audio artifacts (content-dependent or otherwise).
I would seriously discount the source of that information.

If the burnt disk contains unrecoverable read errors, a standard CD player
may very well produce audio artefacts of some kind.
I have never once had that problem with any of the 3 Pioneers I use when
recording on Verbatim disks. Not to say you *can't* get a bad burner or a
bad disk of course.

MrT.

[Richard Crowley]

"Mr.T" wrote...
"Richard Crowley" wrote ...
It doesn't seem possible that the disc burner drive can possibly have
anything to do with audio artifacts (content-dependent or otherwise).
I would seriously discount the source of that information.

If the burnt disk contains unrecoverable read errors, a standard CD player
may very well produce audio artefacts of some kind.
I have never once had that problem with any of the 3 Pioneers I use when
recording on Verbatim disks. Not to say you *can't* get a bad burner or a
bad disk of course.

So they are artifacts from the *playback device*. Perhaps caused
by poor recording of the ones and zeroes by the burner drive. But
the burner drive is NEVER capable of recording "audio artifacts".

[Mr.T]

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
If the burnt disk contains unrecoverable read errors, a standard CD
player
may very well produce audio artefacts of some kind.

So they are artifacts from the *playback device*.

Yep, that's what I said!
But the problem only occurs because of read errors on the disk. The whole
idea is to make good disks so it doesn't occur. A good burner and good disks
will achieve that.

MrT.

[Richard Crowley]

"Mr.T" wrote ...
"Richard Crowley" wrote ...
If the burnt disk contains unrecoverable read errors,
a standard CD player may very well produce audio
artefacts of some kind.

So they are artifacts from the *playback device*.

Yep, that's what I said!
But the problem only occurs because of read errors on the disk. The whole
idea is to make good disks so it doesn't occur. A good burner and good
disks
will achieve that.

It doesn't take "a good burner and good disks" to make recordings
above that very low level of quality. Practically any but the most
lousy drive and the very lowest-grade discs will produce recordings
free of those kind of playback artifacts.

If people are experiencing those kind of problems, then they are
already at the lowest edge of minimal functionality. Time to buy
decent discs, etc. If even RedBook playback ECC can't recover
the lousy recordings then they have absolutely ZERO chance of
burning any kind of readable DATA disc and something is
dramatically wrong with either the burner drive or the discs.

Remember that if you buy commodity discs with a "name brand"
of a company who merely OEMs discs from the cheapest source
of the month, you have no idea what you are getting from month
to month. You could be getting premium Taiyo-Yuden discs one
month and junk the next month with the same "name brand" on
them.

Disc burners can not burn AUDIO artifacts. But they may burn
such lousy DIGITAL data that they cause readers to flounder.
My bet would be that people who are having these kinds of
problems are using trash discs.

[Geoff]

Albie wrote:
The consenus seems to be that the modern Plextor is not in the same
league as the older models from that company. More like the Lite-Ons.
If good 4x burners are out of production, can someone suggest a few
modern alternative burners from their own experience that will burn
audio CDs without "static" or "motorboating" artifacts on heavily
modulated passages? It should have a SATA interface if possible.
tia Albie

I don't think I've ever sen a DR that has the feature you mention, however
cheap.

geoff