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Peter Brimelow Interview With Thom Hartmann

By Peter Brimelow, with comments by Patrick Cleburne



"Thom Hartman: Bill O’Reilly bloviating about the War on Christmas—the War on Christmas, an ongoing theme. O’Reilly is really the guy that brought it to national prominence, but it didn’t start with Bill O’Reilly. It really started with Peter Brimelow. He’s the author of Alien Nation: Common Sense about America’s Immigration Disaster.. He’s the founder of a website called VDare.com, and Peter Brimelow, welcome to the show.

Peter Brimelow: Thanks for having me, Thom, and I do agree with you
about Bush. We’ve been calling for his impeachment..

H: Yeah. Well, you know, from Right to Left—

PB: That may put you off from impeaching Bush, of course, but
nevertheless we agree on it.

H: Yeah, I’ve changed my screensaver now given the realities of the
day, from "impeach Bush" to "convict Bush." But, Peter—

PB: I don’t know what the Democrats are waiting for.

H: Yeah, indeed. Peter, V. Dare was the name of the first British
citizen of the United States. Do I have that right, where you got the
name from?

PB: No, it’s the name of the first English child that was born in the
United States. She was born in the Lost Colony, and of course,
subsequently was lost—vanished completely, when the Lost Colony was
lost.

H: Right. Which would be the first natural born, I guess, American
citizen.

PB: I’m sorry?

H: You know, if you use the definitions of the 14th Amendment—but
we’re splitting hairs.

[VDARE.com comment: Interesting. The intelligent Left (which obviously
includes Thom Hartmann) is clearly gearing up to defend the stupid and
catastrophic 14th Amendment misinterpretation. This outrage is the
main legal/political reason why America as a nation is teetering on
the brink of oblivion—while Switzerland, with very similar native/
immigrant demographics—continues serenely to be Switzerland.]

PB: Well, you see the thing is, the reason—she was once very well
known and Franklin D. Roosevelt went down to celebrate her 400th
anniversary—whatever it was—was that it was the beginning of America
as we know it, you know, as an English-speaking power based on—a big
country based on the Common Law and all that kind of thing. That all
came from England.

H: Right. Now, the winner of your 2001 War on Christmas Competition,
Tom Piatak, if I’m pronouncing that right, said that those behind the
assault on Christmas evidently prefer Hanukkah, which he called the
Jewish Kwanzaa, a phony holiday—a faux holiday.

PB: Oh, you’re reading Max Blumenthal’s article.

H: I am. Yeah.

PB: But you know, as Tom has said on our website, he didn’t say that.
That first of all, the Jewish Kwanzaa thing actually came from a
writer called Schwarz, I believe, who was writing in the American
Heritage and he was arguing that, you know, that Hanukkah is not a
serious Jewish festival.

H: Okay. Well, I go over to VDare.com, your website, and you know,
there’s the normal, "hey, help us out financially" stuff there and you
say, "On our second thank you gift, we’ll send you a free copy of the
Social Contract Special Issue for every donation of $100; and if you
send $250, not only will you get that, you’ll also get a copy of
America’s Half-Blood Prince." Who is America’s—

[VDARE.com comment: Listening to the audio version of this is very
revealing at this point. Hartmann gets emotional. Any reference to
“blood” seemingly gets the Adrenaline pumping. As Peter Brimelow has
said, Hitler’s Revenge…]

PB: That’s a book that was just published by Steve Sailer. It’s based
on a very careful analysis of Obama’s own book, you know, whatever
it’s called [Dreams from My Father: A Story Of Race And Inheritance]
and his autobiography.

H: Why does it matter that—

PB: Steve comes to the conclusion that on the one hand Obama is not a
transcendent candidate. He’s motivated by his own scars—psychological
scars—from—abandoned by his father and his racial heritage and so on.
But on the other hand, he comes to the conclusion that Obama is going
to be a moderate in his first term because he is intensely cautious
personally.

H: He’s going to be a moderate, he’s saying?

PB: I’m sorry.

H: A moderate?

PB: That seems to be borne out by—

HH: But here’s the question, you know, Keith Olbermann has talked
about you guys. In fact, you've got his picture on your homepage at
VDare.

PB: Yeah, he’s good for us. You know, we can raise a lot of money
against Olbermann.

H: Well, no doubt. And you know, Max Blumenthal did this exposé piece
on you guys, and basically what they suggest is that you guys are
white supremacist; that in your 1995 book, Alien Nation, you talked
about "weird aliens with dubious habits."

PB: Have you not read our refutation of that?

H: I beg your pardon?

PB: Have you not read my—I mean, first of all, Max is wrong to say
that we started this competition on VDare. I started it when I was at
National Review in the mid-nineties. They dropped it when they had the
purge and they fired John O’Sullivan and dropped the immigration line,
but—

H: Right. They brought in Rich Lowry, who’s a little more moderate.

PB: Well, he’s a Republican, isn’t he. He’s basically a Republican
hack, whereas we’re just an idea.

H: Yeah, but here’s the point: Why do you care what race a person is?
It seems to me this is like just really toxic stuff.

[VDARE.com: Getting emotional again—listen!]

PB: Well, you know, the short answer is we don’t. VDare.com is a forum
site where we publish people who are critical of current immigration
policy, and a lot of these people are not all conservatives.

H: But the basis of that criticism tends to be cultural or religious
or very often racial.

PB: No. A lot of the people who write for us are people who are
environmentalists. We even have some progressives who are worried
about the impact of immigration on the wages of the vast bulk of
Americans. Wages in this country have stagnated for thirty years, you
know.

H: You’re not going to find any disagreement with that here, but
again, reading your site and you know, books—

PB: I’m sorry, Tom, you’re breaking up. I didn’t catch your answer.

H: It very much sounds like what you’re saying is—well, let me just
ask right straight out: Do you believe that the white race is superior
to other races?

PB: No. I think it is different though. I think there probably are
racial differences. What I was going to say was—we publish a wide
range of writers and there are some people who you could fairly
describe as white nationalists.

H: So you think that the color of a skin of a person, which is one set
of genes and another set of genes for the color and type of hair they
have, and another set of genes for the eye color; I mean we know now
that there actually is no gene for race. You think that the color of a
person’s skin causes them to be different?

PB: Actually, no. [VDARE.com: I.E. No to “no gene for race” concept:
But races do systematically exist.] I think you’re probably wrong
about that. But, I’m sorry. Finish your question.

H: I’m just saying, are you suggesting that we should be dividing
people by race for some particular reason?

[VDARE.com comment: This has to be heard to grasp the emotionalism.
Those Holocaust movies work! Even if they are boringly repetitive.]

I mean if they’re different, different how?

PB: Oh certainly you’re going to divide people by race on medical
grounds. I mean it is increasingly clear that different races respond
to different medications differently.

H: And there are a whole variety of inherited conditions.

PB: But let me answer you. Let me make a specific point here, Thom.

H: Sure.

PB: If you look at the way Americans vote, that does differ
systematically by race. And the voting patterns don’t shift a great
deal over time. They all sway one direction or they all sway another,
but basically they differ enormously by race—

H: By and large because we have a racist nation.

[VDARE.com comment: Truly fatuous remark. If there are multiple races,
racial conflict is inevitable.]

P:—So if you have a [cross-talk] of that, as we do at the moment,
which is actually importing very large numbers of people, basically
from Third World countries—and we all know that they are going to vote
Democratic—you’re basically shifting the country to the Left through
public policy, and that is an irrefutable and completely logical
argument. Why are we importing—

H: Well, and the basis for that is the Republican party represents,
and always has, or at least has since the 1880s, has represented the
interests of large corporations and very wealthy people. And in a
nation that is built on racism, that has been by and large white,
Anglo-Saxon Protestants.

PB: Well, you know, white Protestants make up 45 percent of the
electorate right now, so that is a pretty large—I mean, you know, all
kinds of white Protestants living in poverty in Appalachia and so on,
it’s not—

H: But what are you so afraid of—

PB: I’m inclined to agree with you by the way about the Republican
Party. I think the Republican Party is in the pockets of big
corporations. But one of the consequences of that of course is they
want vast amounts of cheap labor, which is exactly why George Bush
staked his entire presidency trying to force through amnesty for
illegal aliens, not once, but twice—

[VDARE.com: A Paleo-Conservative analysis Thom Hartman is definitely
not in business to promote!]

H: But Peter Brimelow, you’re the guy behind the War on Christmas.
What are you so afraid of?

PB: You know, I got interested in this in the mid-nineties when people
were afraid to say Merry Christmas. They think it’s offensive. And I
regard this as Christophobia. Apparently, there are people out there
who just can’t bear to hear the word ‘Christmas’ because—

H: I don’t see it as offensive. But if I don’t know if somebody is
Jewish or Moslem or atheist, which I respect as well, I don’t want to
shove something in their face. It’s a whole lot easier to say "Happy
Holidays."

PB: Why have we got to get to the point—

[commercial break interruption]

H: Our quote for the day from Oliver Wendell Holmes: Man’s mind
stretched to a new idea, never goes back to its original dimensions.

Well, this War on Christmas idea has been around for years. Bill
O’Reilly—"Bill O’the clown" as Keith Olbermann refers to him and I
think it’s a marvelous appellation—has been flogging this for some
time, but the real founder of this is Peter Brimelow, and Peter, the
author of Alien Nation: Common Sense about America’s Immigration
Debate and other books. His website: VDare.com.

And Peter, I’m sorry, we stepped on you in mid-sentence there toward
the end. I’m still trying to wrap my brain around this idea that
people are different racially and that if somebody wants to say "Happy
Holidays" that that’s somehow a slap on Christianity, and why you
would have people like white supremacist Jared Taylor and Kevin
MacDonald (who says that Jews are genetically equipped to outcompete
gentiles)

[VDARE.com comment: Aha! Hartmann’s staff does its homework! Olbermann
stupidly said MacDonald sees Jews are inferior—VDARE.com pointed out
the reverse is the case.]

as writers for your site? The whole gestalt of this, of trying to
divide us by race—not even trying to, doing it—and by religion, and
doing it in a highly adversarial, highly "oh, you’re trying to come
and get us, we’re the big victims." I mean this is so last year’s
right-wing talk-radio.

PB: There is no doubt that Christmas is a victim of political
correctness. You know, Christophobia is a real force in American
society. There are a lot of people out there who don’t like
Christianity and one of the ways they do expressions of this is they
try to stamp out any mention of Christmas because it contains the name
of Christ. And we have a whole series—more than two hundred examples
of this over six or seven years.

H: What we’re talking about really here is the market place.

PB: Let me interrupt. First turn the question back to you. By the way,
Jared Taylor is not a white supremacist, he’s a white nationalist.
There’s a difference. He’s trying to represent the interests of
whites, who are still the majority of people in this country—

H: They won’t be in 10 years.

[VDARE.com: Hear the gloating?]

PB: Just as La Raza represents the interests of Hispanics and Zionist
organizations represents the perceived interests of Jews and black
nationalists represent the interests of blacks. Now, if you have a
highly diverse society, particularly one where diversity has been
imported by public policy, it’s absolutely inevitable that at some
point whites are going to organize to defend their own interests just
as every other racial group is doing.

H: Hey, they started back in the 1700s. It was called the KKK.

[VDARE.com comment: Below-par slip by Hartmann. The KKK was a post
Civil War/ Reconstruction Resistance phenomenon.]

PB: We don’t only run white nationalists on the site. We have a wide—
anybody who is interested in immigration policy. And for that reason,
Thom, I know it’s hard to believe it, but I have people all the time
writing to me who say they’re Democrats and they’re fed up with the
immigration disaster, or who are environmentalists. We have Hispanics
who write to us and say—

H: Hey, some of the most virulent racists I know are Democrats.

[VDARE.com comment: How very interesting! Who? All white southern
Democrats are gelded on this issue.

Hmmm, let’s think…]

PB: I beg your pardon?

H: I said some of the most virulent racists I know are Democrats. It
sounds, Peter, like you’re saying, "Well, yeah, one of my friends is
black…"

PB: Is it racism if people object to their wages being beaten down by
the import of cheap labor? What’s racist about that? Samuel Gompers
was fearlessly in favor of immigration reform in the early 1900s for
exactly this reason: If you increase the supply of labor, you drive
down its price. And this is becoming increasingly obvious in the
technical literature. The Quarterly Journal of Economics carried an
article five years ago by George Borjas from Harvard, who found its
effects right across the board in American wages. [The Labor Demand
Curve Is Downward Sloping: Reexamining the Impact of Immigration on
the Labor Market, The Quarterly Journal of Economics, November 2003,
(PDF)] Even impacting—

H: You know, Peter Brimelow, you are right. You are right. I’ve got a
chapter about this in my book Screwed. The fact of the matter is that
if employers can bring in illegal workers and people who are not
citizens to increase the workforce—I mean David Ricardo wrote about
this in 1817 in his book On Wages, that when the supply of labor
roughly equals the demand for labor, the cost of labor will fall to a
subsistence level. In other words, we will be back to Victorian
England. But you guys are taking it a step farther and saying—as by
the way we did in the United States in the 1880s, when we passed laws
against "yellow people" (that was the phrase used in the legislation)
[Vdare.com This is wrong, as far as we know. Certainly the phrase
doesn't appear in the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. Perhaps he was
thinking about the phrase "yellow peril" which was popular at the time]
—Chinese, Asians—being imported in to work on the railroads because
the railroads were trying to bust the unions by importing Chinese
labor, much like Mexican labor is coming in now. You guys take it a
step further by pointing out the race and religion of these people.
And that’s where I say it gets toxic. That’s where it becomes anti-
American. That’s where it becomes destructive to this Republic.

PB: That’s why it’s impossible to get an immigration debate going in
this country for 30 years because anybody whoever says anything
critical about immigration is accused of racism. Now, let me ask you—

H: I haven't been, and I’ve been quite up front about this for years
on this show.

PB: I’ve seen from the Wikipedia entry for you, Thom, that you have a
very commendable interest in attention deficit disorder and you have
advanced a theory, it says here, that ADD is related to an
evolutionary adaptation from hunter-gatherer lifestyles. Now, if
that’s a fair statement of what you’re saying, that’s a
sociobiological argument. It’s a racial argument. You’re saying that
it’s in our genes.

H: It’s not a racial argument. It is a genetic argument absolutely and
you can make the same thing for coeliac disease or Huntingdon’s
disease or anything else.

PB: But it is a sociobiological argument, isn’t it?

H: That doesn't imply—

PB: It is a sociobiological argument, isn’t it?

H: No it’s not. It is—

PB: Of course it is.

H: Well, okay, arguably it is, but it is not talking about power. What
you guys are talking about is power; is, who’s in charge.

PB: In other words, if it’s okay for you to talk about evolutionary
psychology, it’s okay for Kevin MacDonald to talk about it.

H: I don’t mind when he’s talking about it. My problem comes along
when he says, "Therefore, these people should be in charge, and these
other people shouldn't."

PB: In charge?

H: Yeah.

PB: This country was fundamentally a white country when it started
off. Do you want to see that changed?

H: I have no problem with that as long as our core values are the
same.

[VDARE.com comment: At this point, the broadcast was abruptly
terminated without giving Peter Brimelow a chance to respond.
Possibly, based on the clumsy commercial break intrusion, this is the
way this station works.

“As long as our core values are the same.”

Of course, this is the crucial issue (Sorry, Christophobes). Why
should anyone in their right minds expect the Somalis, or the Hmong,
the Refugee Industry’s recent favorites, to have America’s core
values? Because of our effective educational system? As Milton
Friedman told Peter Brimelow years ago

"t's a curious fact that capitalism developed and has really come to
fruition in the English-speaking world. It hasn't really made the same
progress even in Europe--certainly not in France, for instance. I
don't know why this is so, but the fact has to be admitted"

The same is true of freedom of speech, and for that matter, the
concept of empirical scientific enquiry. There is a reason China
stagnated. And the Hispanic world.

Must America also?]"

http://www.vdare.com/pb/081230_hartmann_interview.htm

[marika]

On Dec 31 2008, 12:11*am, wrote:
Peter Brimelow Interview With Thom Hartmann

By Peter Brimelow, with comments by Patrick Cleburne

"Thom Hartman: Bill O’Reilly bloviating about the War on Christmas—the War on Christmas, an ongoing theme. O’Reilly is really the guy that brought it to national prominence, but it didn’t start with Bill O’Reilly. It really started with Peter Brimelow. He’s the author of Alien Nation: Common Sense about America’s Immigration Disaster.. He’s the founder of a website called VDare.com, and Peter Brimelow, welcome to the show.

Peter Brimelow: Thanks for having me, Thom, and I do agree with you
about Bush. We’ve been calling for his impeachment..

H: Yeah. Well, you know, from Right toLeft—

PB: That may put you off from impeaching Bush, of course, but
nevertheless we agree on it.




problem is with the overcrowding in US, inadequate money coming into
budget coffers over next few years to repair infrastucture, that 2013
report about bioweapons hitting the US is very likely

only it is more likely to bubonic plague and or nuclear from all that
i have heard

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...DwbDgD94RVPO01