[jtougas[_3_]]

Hi folks -

I'm looking for suggestions for a low wattage power amp, to be used to
provide sound to a small aerobics studio, where the speakers are
installed in the ceiling.

Right now, I'm looking at the Samson Servo 120a, the Crown D-45 (I
think - I left my notes at work), and the Carvin DCM150.

We're going to be expanding our building, and installing two new
rooms. The current setups use powered mixers to plug into a Neutrik
jack in the wall, and run everything summed to mono. I don't know
what speakers are in the ceiling, but the current powered mixer is
only about 80w, and rarely gets turned about 2-3 before chasing people
out of the room.

Based on that, I guess I'm looking for either something with low
wattage in the bridged mono setup, or just a single channel low
wattage power amp.

Suggestions, or am I doing fine so far?

Thanks in advance -
--
jtougas

"listen- there's a hell of a good universe next door
let's go" - e.e. cummings

[Scott Dorsey]

jtougas wrote:
I'm looking for suggestions for a low wattage power amp, to be used to
provide sound to a small aerobics studio, where the speakers are
installed in the ceiling.

Right now, I'm looking at the Samson Servo 120a, the Crown D-45 (I
think - I left my notes at work), and the Carvin DCM150.

All of these are kind of nasty sounding amps but you don't care
so much about that. What you do care is that the Servo 120 is not
going to be as reliable as the other two, and that I don't think
any of them can drive a 70V load without a step-up transformer.

We're going to be expanding our building, and installing two new
rooms. The current setups use powered mixers to plug into a Neutrik
jack in the wall, and run everything summed to mono. I don't know
what speakers are in the ceiling, but the current powered mixer is
only about 80w, and rarely gets turned about 2-3 before chasing people
out of the room.

I bet a nickel that the speakers in the ceiling have 70V transformers
in them. Find out how many are paralleled together and what power
taps they are on.

What is wrong with using the existing powered mixers?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Jay Ts]

jtougas wrote:
Right now, I'm looking at the Samson Servo 120a, the Crown D-45 (I think
- I left my notes at work), and the Carvin DCM150.

I love my Carvin guitar, but I wouldn't buy one of their amps.
Twice I've seen them shut down for no reason in the middle of
a live performance, requiring a "reboot".

Notice that the DCM150 does not have a cooling fan, and it *does*
have thermal shutdown protection. ;-)

To be fair, that was about 10 years ago, and maybe Carvin has
redesigned the product(s) by now.

Suggestions, or am I doing fine so far?

Maybe just use some kind of consumer stereo? If you need much
less than 80 watts as you say, there are many to choose from.

If it were me, I'd put at least 2 more speakers in the ceiling
to spread the sound out more, and give people the impression that
it's filling the room evenly. It might be possible to use a 5.1
surround sound amp ("receiver") for that.

Jay Ts
--
To contact me, use this web page:
http://www.jayts.com/contact.php

[jtougas[_3_]]

On 8 Dec 2008 22:05:10 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) trained
100 monkeys to jump on the keyboard and write:

What is wrong with using the existing powered mixers?

Hi Scott -

We'd like to make sure all four aerobics studios have identical
setups, as certain of our instructors are not as tech savvy as one
would hope, and I'm having issues finding powered mixers under 80w in
any kind of durability. The last one I found that low was a
Behringer, and it's been beaten to death in the past two years.

Plus, those same powered mixers are part of the tech savvy issue...

*sigh* One of the instructors even refuses to use the wireless
headset because it's too hard for her to work. There's a mute button,
and a power button. Turn power on, turn mute off, and talk. It isn't
very hard... *bangs head against desk*

--
jtougas

"listen- there's a hell of a good universe next door
let's go" - e.e. cummings

[jtougas[_3_]]

On 09 Dec 2008 03:23:34 GMT, Jay Ts
trained 100 monkeys to jump on the keyboard and write:

If it were me, I'd put at least 2 more speakers in the ceiling
to spread the sound out more, and give people the impression that
it's filling the room evenly. It might be possible to use a 5.1
surround sound amp ("receiver") for that.

In one of the current aerobics studios, there are about 16-20 speakers
in the ceiling. My guess is that they're wired together in some
parallel/series scheme to keep the ohms down...

--
jtougas

"listen- there's a hell of a good universe next door
let's go" - e.e. cummings

[Tim Perry]

"jtougas" wrote in message
...
On 09 Dec 2008 03:23:34 GMT, Jay Ts
trained 100 monkeys to jump on the keyboard and write:

If it were me, I'd put at least 2 more speakers in the ceiling
to spread the sound out more, and give people the impression that
it's filling the room evenly. It might be possible to use a 5.1
surround sound amp ("receiver") for that.

In one of the current aerobics studios, there are about 16-20 speakers
in the ceiling. My guess is that they're wired together in some
parallel/series scheme to keep the ohms down...

--
jtougas

Dont guess. Look. g

So you have maybe 20 speakers which we can guess are 5 to 20 watts each.

Let me draw your attention to http://aa.peavey.com/modularmixeramps/

[Scott Dorsey]

jtougas wrote:

We'd like to make sure all four aerobics studios have identical
setups, as certain of our instructors are not as tech savvy as one
would hope, and I'm having issues finding powered mixers under 80w in
any kind of durability. The last one I found that low was a
Behringer, and it's been beaten to death in the past two years.

You have to go to the installed sound people like Toa and Peavey
Architectural Acoustics for that. Note that a lot of them are rigged
with 70V transformers already, too.

Plus, those same powered mixers are part of the tech savvy issue...

*sigh* One of the instructors even refuses to use the wireless
headset because it's too hard for her to work. There's a mute button,
and a power button. Turn power on, turn mute off, and talk. It isn't
very hard... *bangs head against desk*

This won't improve.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

jtougas wrote:
On 09 Dec 2008 03:23:34 GMT, Jay Ts
trained 100 monkeys to jump on the keyboard and write:

If it were me, I'd put at least 2 more speakers in the ceiling
to spread the sound out more, and give people the impression that
it's filling the room evenly. It might be possible to use a 5.1
surround sound amp ("receiver") for that.

In one of the current aerobics studios, there are about 16-20 speakers
in the ceiling. My guess is that they're wired together in some
parallel/series scheme to keep the ohms down...

No, try again. It's a 70V system up there, if the installers were at all
even remotely competent.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

jtougas wrote:

We'd like to make sure all four aerobics studios have identical
setups, as certain of our instructors are not as tech savvy as one
would hope

Ideally, the instructors won't need to do anything more technical than
talk into a mic or push the Play button.

and I'm having issues finding powered mixers under 80w in
any kind of durability.

I've never been in an aerobics studio, but I would think that in any
facility housing a bunch of people doing physical activity in rhythm you
wouldn't be worried about low power. What you want is reliability, and
that means not running the amplifier close to its rated power very much.
You aren't thinking, are you, that a 50 watt amplifier will be quieter
than a 120 watt amplifier (a good thing?) are you? You can always turn
the volume down. And providing an underpowered amplifier is a very bad
way of limiting the maximum volume.

*sigh* One of the instructors even refuses to use the wireless
headset because it's too hard for her to work. There's a mute button,
and a power button. Turn power on, turn mute off, and talk.

Well, that's two more buttons that have to be dealt with than with a
straightforward microphone. And it also means that the battery may run
down during a session if someone doesn't regularly keep up with those
things. Or maybe the real reason is that it's uncomfortable to wear. I
can appreciate where she's coming from. If she doesn't see any advantage
to a wireless mic (maybe she doesn't wander around much during her
sessions) why have switches to have to think about?


--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Mike Rivers]

jtougas wrote:

In one of the current aerobics studios, there are about 16-20 speakers
in the ceiling. My guess is that they're wired together in some
parallel/series scheme to keep the ohms down...

Don't you think you'd better figure out how they're wired? I doubt that
they're series-parallel wired. Commercial sound installers aren't that
smart. It's probably a 70V system with a transformer at each speaker,
with the transformers wired in parallel. Open one up and look.



--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me he
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
)

[Richard Kuschel]

On Dec 8, 6:46 pm, jtougas wrote:
Hi folks -

I'm looking for suggestions for a low wattage power amp, to be used to
provide sound to a small aerobics studio, where the speakers are
installed in the ceiling.

Right now, I'm looking at the Samson Servo 120a, the Crown D-45 (I
think - I left my notes at work), and the Carvin DCM150.

We're going to be expanding our building, and installing two new
rooms. The current setups use powered mixers to plug into a Neutrik
jack in the wall, and run everything summed to mono. I don't know
what speakers are in the ceiling, but the current powered mixer is
only about 80w, and rarely gets turned about 2-3 before chasing people
out of the room.

Based on that, I guess I'm looking for either something with low
wattage in the bridged mono setup, or just a single channel low
wattage power amp.

Suggestions, or am I doing fine so far?

Thanks in advance -
--
jtougas

"listen- there's a hell of a good universe next door
let's go" - e.e. cummings

When speakers are installed in the ceiling, it is a pretty good bet
that it was done by somebody versed in that type of installation.

Open up one of the speaker panels and look at it. it is my opinion
that you wil find a transformer mounted to the back of each speaker.
This is a 70 Volt line system and all the speakers are essentially
wired in parallel connections. How much power that is drawn from the
amplifier is determined by the transformer,
if you have 20 speakers, then you need a 100 watt amplifier to drive
them. I would probably increase my amplifier size by 50% for a little
wiggle room or expansion. THE AMPLIFIER MUST HAVE A 70VOLT OUTPUT OR
AN AUTOFORMER ATTACHED TO IT FOR THIS TO WORK.


Commercial amplifiers such as TOA and Peavey Architectural Acoustics
amplifiers will have these outputs. Unless you are plugging a very
large amplifier such as the Peavey CS800 in bridge mode you will not
be able to drive a 70Volt line without the correct outputs or an
autoformer.

if you do not understand how this system should work, contact a
professional who does. You probably won't find one at the local music
store. Commercial sound installers will understand these systems and
be able to set them up for your needs.

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 20:46:10 -0500, jtougas
wrote:

provide sound to a small aerobics studio, where the speakers are
installed in the ceiling.

Right now, I'm looking at the Samson Servo 120a, the Crown D-45 (I
think - I left my notes at work), and the Carvin DCM150.

We're going to be expanding our building, and installing two new
rooms. The current setups use powered mixers to plug into a Neutrik
jack in the wall, and run everything summed to mono. I don't know
what speakers are in the ceiling, but the current powered mixer is
only about 80w, and rarely gets turned about 2-3 before chasing people
out of the room.


Have a look at the back of the powered mixer, where the speaker cable
comes out. Does it say something about "power into 4 (or 8) ohms" or
does it say something about "70 volts" ?

Neutrik make lots of connecters. What particular sort is in the wall?

People will jump to the conclusion this is a 70v system. It probably
ought to be. But what you're telling us suggests it may not be.

[Arny Krueger]

"jtougas" wrote in message



I'm looking for suggestions for a low wattage power amp,
to be used to provide sound to a small aerobics studio,
where the speakers are installed in the ceiling.

Right now, I'm looking at the Samson Servo 120a, the
Crown D-45 (I think - I left my notes at work), and the
Carvin DCM150.

We're going to be expanding our building, and installing
two new rooms. The current setups use powered mixers to
plug into a Neutrik jack in the wall, and run everything
summed to mono. I don't know what speakers are in the
ceiling, but the current powered mixer is only about 80w,
and rarely gets turned about 2-3 before chasing people
out of the room.

So why are you thinking about another amp?

Based on that, I guess I'm looking for either something
with low wattage in the bridged mono setup, or just a
single channel low wattage power amp.

You are going to be hard put to find anything but a stereo amp.

That said, the small amp I've been buying multiples of lately is the
Behringer A500.

[Mickey]

On 2008-12-09, jtougas wrote:
Hi folks -

I'm looking for suggestions for a low wattage power amp, to be used to
provide sound to a small aerobics studio, where the speakers are
installed in the ceiling.

Right now, I'm looking at the Samson Servo 120a, the Crown D-45 (I
think - I left my notes at work), and the Carvin DCM150.

We're going to be expanding our building, and installing two new
rooms. The current setups use powered mixers to plug into a Neutrik
jack in the wall, and run everything summed to mono. I don't know
what speakers are in the ceiling, but the current powered mixer is
only about 80w, and rarely gets turned about 2-3 before chasing people
out of the room.

Based on that, I guess I'm looking for either something with low
wattage in the bridged mono setup, or just a single channel low
wattage power amp.

Suggestions, or am I doing fine so far?

I own a Servo 120a, which works fine but is woefully underpowered
at 60 amps/ch into 4 ohms. I got it in a package deal, and use it
bridged at 8 ohms for a single monitor speaker for very small (mostly
conference) gigs.

It will not bridge at 4 ohms.

--
Mickey
There comes a time when you should stop expecting other people to make
a big deal about your birthday. That time is age 12. -- Dave Barry

[[email protected]]

On 2008-12-09 said:
provide sound to a small aerobics studio, where the speakers are
installed in the ceiling.
rooms. The current setups use powered mixers to plug into a
Neutrik jack in the wall, and run everything summed to mono. I
don't know what speakers are in the ceiling, but the current
powered mixer is only about 80w, and rarely gets turned about 2-3
before chasing people out of the room.
Have a look at the back of the powered mixer, where the speaker
cable comes out. Does it say something about "power into 4 (or 8)
ohms" or does it say something about "70 volts" ?
Neutrik make lots of connecters. What particular sort is in the
wall?
I"d bet that connector at the wall feeds an autoformer, if
it was done competently. Have a look at what's behind that
connector.

People will jump to the conclusion this is a 70v system. It
probably ought to be. But what you're telling us suggests it may
not be.

Lawrence might be right, and if it isn't it should be.
FOlks have given you some pointers toward info on 70v
systems. IN this group, check archives, has been discussed
how to figure the power you need for these. IF not a 70v
system do it right while you're doing it.





Richard webb,
replace anything before at with elspider

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--- Benjamin Franklin, NOvember 1755 from the
Historical review of Pennsylvania