[DeeAa[_2_]]

Hello,

Which would you rather use (for recording drums) as overhead mics:

1. a pair of Shure 57's
2. a pair of flat-response but cheap measurement mics such as Behringer
8000's
3. a pair of cheap overhead mics such as Samson or Behringer.

I have a pair of 57's already, just pondering if it'll give me any
significant improvement to get something else, given that I'm NOT going to
spend a lot if any money.

Cheers,

Dee

[Scott Dorsey]

DeeAa wrote:
Which would you rather use (for recording drums) as overhead mics:

1. a pair of Shure 57's
2. a pair of flat-response but cheap measurement mics such as Behringer
8000's
3. a pair of cheap overhead mics such as Samson or Behringer.

I have a pair of 57's already, just pondering if it'll give me any
significant improvement to get something else, given that I'm NOT going to
spend a lot if any money.

It will. The SM-57 is just awful as a farfield microphone. Try option
number 2. Or build the project microphone from the Tape Op article, using
Panasonic capsules.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Les Cargill]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
DeeAa wrote:
Which would you rather use (for recording drums) as overhead mics:

1. a pair of Shure 57's
2. a pair of flat-response but cheap measurement mics such as Behringer
8000's
3. a pair of cheap overhead mics such as Samson or Behringer.

I have a pair of 57's already, just pondering if it'll give me any
significant improvement to get something else, given that I'm NOT going to
spend a lot if any money.

It will. The SM-57 is just awful as a farfield microphone.

He's more likely thinking midfield - 6' or so.

Try option
number 2. Or build the project microphone from the Tape Op article, using
Panasonic capsules.
--scott

--
Les Cargill

[DeeAa[_3_]]

On 7 syys, 17:45, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

It will. *The SM-57 is just awful as a farfield microphone. *Try option
number 2. *Or build the project microphone from the Tape Op article, using
Panasonic capsules.

Hmm...I gather that means the Tape Op mag....just googled it....but I
dunno how to find the article in q.
Sounds quite interesting though...I love tinkering w/stuff so I'd be
interested if anyone has a link? I'm having no luck w/searching the
site.

Cheers,

Dee

[Richard Crowley]

"DeeAa" wrote ...
Hmm...I gather that means the Tape Op mag....just googled it....
but I dunno how to find the article in q.
Sounds quite interesting though...I love tinkering w/stuff so I'd be
interested if anyone has a link? I'm having no luck w/searching the
site.

There are MANY circuits out on the internet for DIY microphones
using Panasonic (and similar) electret condenser mic capsules. I would
bet that the TapeOp article is a variation on one of the circuits which
is published out there on the WWW.

There are even online forums specifically for DIY mic builders.
For example: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/micbuilders/

[Tim Perry]

"DeeAa" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Which would you rather use (for recording drums) as overhead mics:

1. a pair of Shure 57's
2. a pair of flat-response but cheap measurement mics such as Behringer
8000's
3. a pair of cheap overhead mics such as Samson or Behringer.

I have a pair of 57's already, just pondering if it'll give me any
significant improvement to get something else, given that I'm NOT going to
spend a lot if any money.

Cheers,

Dee


Pick up a pair of Behringer C-2 and consider them as a starter kit.

While I normally use other types of small condenser both as OH and for
recording I do own a pair and find them satisfactory in these applications
and others.

Personally, I do not find the ECM 8000 satisfactory for anything other then
what it was intended for --- hooked to a RTA. Probably this is because in
part that my applications seldom need an omni.

[DeeAa[_3_]]

On 8 syys, 07:12, "Tim Perry" wrote:
"DeeAa" wrote in message

...

Hello,

Which would you rather use (for recording drums) as overhead mics:

1. a pair of Shure 57's
2. a pair of flat-response but cheap measurement mics such as Behringer
8000's
3. a pair of cheap overhead mics such as Samson or Behringer.

I have a pair of 57's already, just pondering if it'll give me any
significant improvement to get something else, given that I'm NOT going to
spend a lot if any money.

Cheers,

Dee

Pick up a pair of Behringer C-2 and consider them as a starter kit.

While I normally use other types of small condenser both as OH and for
recording I do own a pair and find them satisfactory in these applications
and others.

OK, thanks...I think I'll do just that!

Cheers,

Dee

[nebulax]

On Sep 7, 8:39*am, "DeeAa" wrote:
Hello,

Which would you rather use (for recording drums) as overhead mics:

1. a pair of Shure 57's
2. a pair of flat-response but cheap measurement mics such as Behringer
8000's
3. a pair of cheap overhead mics such as Samson or Behringer.

I have a pair of 57's already, just pondering if it'll give me any
significant improvement to get something else, given that I'm NOT going to
spend a lot if any money.

Cheers,

Dee


IMHO, 57's don't play well with cymbals, and can make them sound like
shredded aluminum if used as overheads. You might want to look into a
pair of the MCA SP-1 mics, which are large-diaphragm condensers, and
would probably be a lot smoother on the high freqs. Plus, they're only
$39.99 per mic -
http://www.pssl.com/!EIcpmckWcE8d-8J...1&x=0&y=0&by=s

-Neb

[Edi Zubovic[_2_]]

On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 10:46:58 -0400, "Soundhaspriority"
wrote:


"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
DeeAa wrote:
Which would you rather use (for recording drums) as overhead mics:

1. a pair of Shure 57's
2. a pair of flat-response but cheap measurement mics such as Behringer
8000's
3. a pair of cheap overhead mics such as Samson or Behringer.

I have a pair of 57's already, just pondering if it'll give me any
significant improvement to get something else, given that I'm NOT going to
spend a lot if any money.

It will. The SM-57 is just awful as a farfield microphone. Try option
number 2. Or build the project microphone from the Tape Op article, using
Panasonic capsules.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I second option #2. I've had great results.

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511



-- I have a pair of Behringer 8000 which I'd use for AB stereo
recordings. Until now, I've only tested them only since I'm moving in
the 1st floor and for the time being my audio activities are reduced
to essentials. However, I've found in a live test that they are fairly
linear up to ultrasonics but I think they are a bit noisy. Or is it
just an impression?

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

[david correia]

In article ,
"DeeAa" wrote:

Hello,

Which would you rather use (for recording drums) as overhead mics:

1. a pair of Shure 57's
2. a pair of flat-response but cheap measurement mics such as Behringer
8000's
3. a pair of cheap overhead mics such as Samson or Behringer.

I have a pair of 57's already, just pondering if it'll give me any
significant improvement to get something else, given that I'm NOT going to
spend a lot if any money.

Cheers,

Dee



Few years back I put on a drum recording seminar at my place with
Mercenary's famous Fletcher and his teacher, Phil Greene.

We spent an afternoon micing a kit with the good stuff (mics), and then
at the end we replaced them all with 57's, kinda as a cheap solution and
a lark.

We were all amazed by how good it sounded! Not as good as the high
priced spread, but waaaay better than expected.

Of course, the drummer, the kit, and the room all were excellent.





David Correia
www.Celebrationsound.com

[Arny Krueger]

"Edi Zubovic" wrote in message


-- I have a pair of Behringer 8000 which I'd use for AB
stereo recordings. Until now, I've only tested them only
since I'm moving in the 1st floor and for the time being
my audio activities are reduced to essentials. However,
I've found in a live test that they are fairly linear up
to ultrasonics but I think they are a bit noisy. Or is
it just an impression?

Yes, the ECM 8000s are on the noisy side, so never use them in the far field
for much but measuring.

OTOH, if you are within a few feet of a loud sound source (e.g. overheads)
they have more than enough dynamic range.

[Arny Krueger]

"Les Cargill" wrote in message
g.com
Scott Dorsey wrote:
DeeAa wrote:
Which would you rather use (for recording drums) as
overhead mics: 1. a pair of Shure 57's
2. a pair of flat-response but cheap measurement mics
such as Behringer 8000's
3. a pair of cheap overhead mics such as Samson or
Behringer. I have a pair of 57's already, just pondering if it'll
give me any significant improvement to get something
else, given that I'm NOT going to spend a lot if any
money.

It will. The SM-57 is just awful as a farfield
microphone.

He's more likely thinking midfield - 6' or so.

That's pretty far for mics like SM57s that are basically vocal mics without
really good pop rejection.

[Scott Dorsey]

Edi Zubovic wrote:

-- I have a pair of Behringer 8000 which I'd use for AB stereo
recordings. Until now, I've only tested them only since I'm moving in
the 1st floor and for the time being my audio activities are reduced
to essentials. However, I've found in a live test that they are fairly
linear up to ultrasonics but I think they are a bit noisy. Or is it
just an impression?

Sheesh, what do you WANT for a capsule that costs less than a dollar?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Don Pearce]

Edi Zubovic wrote:
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 10:46:58 -0400, "Soundhaspriority"
wrote:

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
DeeAa wrote:
Which would you rather use (for recording drums) as overhead mics:

1. a pair of Shure 57's
2. a pair of flat-response but cheap measurement mics such as Behringer
8000's
3. a pair of cheap overhead mics such as Samson or Behringer.

I have a pair of 57's already, just pondering if it'll give me any
significant improvement to get something else, given that I'm NOT going to
spend a lot if any money.
It will. The SM-57 is just awful as a farfield microphone. Try option
number 2. Or build the project microphone from the Tape Op article, using
Panasonic capsules.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
I second option #2. I've had great results.

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511



-- I have a pair of Behringer 8000 which I'd use for AB stereo
recordings. Until now, I've only tested them only since I'm moving in
the 1st floor and for the time being my audio activities are reduced
to essentials. However, I've found in a live test that they are fairly
linear up to ultrasonics but I think they are a bit noisy. Or is it
just an impression?

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

If you want a flat high frequency response everything has to be small.
That means it doesn't intercept much moving air, so the sensitivity is
poor - hence the noise. Note that the dimension that determines the
noise level in this case is not the diaphragm, but the hole in the case
through which the sound enters.

d

[hank alrich]

david correia wrote:

Few years back I put on a drum recording seminar at my place with
Mercenary's famous Fletcher and his teacher, Phil Greene.

We spent an afternoon micing a kit with the good stuff (mics), and then
at the end we replaced them all with 57's, kinda as a cheap solution and
a lark.

We were all amazed by how good it sounded! Not as good as the high
priced spread, but waaaay better than expected.

Of course, the drummer, the kit, and the room all were excellent.

And one more thing: the preamps into which the 57's looked were not the
presently ubiquitous transformerless cheapies. This alone makes a world
of difference with those mics. A 57 into my Mackie 1202 is not to be
appreciated. Into the Great River MP2-MH it's quite a surprise.

When dinosaurs walked this earth and real preamps had iron at the input,
57's were better mics than they usualy are nowadaze.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[DeeAa[_3_]]

Thanks guys, you've been very helpful indeed.

I've now decided to buy Behringer C2's or similar mics - I saw some
Fostex mics almost the same for the same price used locally - and I
might get those.

It's great that NG's like this have so many not only very
knowledgeable but also very helpful people; thanks again for all your
insights.

My goal is not to build a real studio, really, but record my band in
our 'basement' which is not the best place to record due to what has
to be drums location (near wall one side, cavernous concrete room with
some dampers) and the main issue is that I don't have any real
monitoring system...so I must just place the mics, check the Presonus
firepod/Cubase that levels are OK and record. I have to do all EQ'ing
after the fact and so on, recording directly to Cubase on my laptop.

But I'm pretty sure I can get nice sounds w/the setup now, when I get
the overheads.

I have a Samson kickdrum mic which is not the best, but when placed so
the capsule lines with the front skin of the KD, it works OK. I have 2
57's which I'll use for snare top/bottom, and the upcoming Behringers
for overheads in X config. I also have old AKGD109's for each tom,
which I plan to use mostly to get a peak from them and trigger tom
samples later via midi on the DAW. Maybe the same for kick if need be,

I also have an AKG414, just a single one, and I don't know yet how I
could use that for good effect; I was thinking maybe use it to get an
extra snare track, but any ideas are very welcome. I attempted using
it as a single overhead in figure 8 'pseudostero' but I didn't like
the results too much. Maybe it would work as a 'room' mic somehow, but
it seems to me since the room doesn't sound too good anyway I'm better
off without it.

So thanks again, and if you can suggest good use for the 414 I'd
appreciate that too! The eighth channel is still free to use for
it :-)

Cheers,

Dee

[DeeAa[_2_]]

"nebulax" wrote in message
...
IMHO, 57's don't play well with cymbals, and can make them sound like
shredded aluminum if used as overheads. You might want to look into a
pair of the MCA SP-1 mics, which are large-diaphragm condensers, and
would probably be a lot smoother on the high freqs. Plus, they're only
$39.99 per mic -
http://www.pssl.com/!EIcpmckWcE8d-8J...1&x=0&y=0&by=s

Damn, I bet those are nice ones, but the price...I just checked; delivered
here they'd come to pretty close to $200 a pair nevermind the low starting
price...that's outta my range. A pair of Behringers I can get for roughly
70;-

It ain't funny how expensive the deliveries have become now the gas prices
are so high :-(

Cheers,

Dee

[Jay Ts]

Edi Zubovic wrote:
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 10:46:58 -0400, "Soundhaspriority" wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
DeeAa wrote:
Which would you rather use (for recording drums) as overhead mics:

1. a pair of Shure 57's
2. a pair of flat-response but cheap measurement mics such as
Behringer 8000's
3. a pair of cheap overhead mics such as Samson or Behringer.

I have a pair of 57's already, just pondering if it'll give me any
significant improvement to get something else, given that I'm NOT
going to spend a lot if any money.

It will. The SM-57 is just awful as a farfield microphone. Try
option number 2. Or build the project microphone from the Tape Op
article, using Panasonic capsules.
--scott

I second option #2. I've had great results.

Bob Morein

-- I have a pair of Behringer 8000 which I'd use for AB stereo
recordings. Until now, I've only tested them only since I'm moving in
the 1st floor and for the time being my audio activities are reduced to
essentials. However, I've found in a live test that they are fairly
linear up to ultrasonics but I think they are a bit noisy. Or is it
just an impression?

They are noisy as compared to condensor mics with large or medium
diaphragms. If you need really low noise, you'll need a larger
diaphragm. But then you'll run into other issues.

Try the 8000 or one of Scott's project mics with the Panasonic
capsules, and see if you can get it to work. I made a mic using one
of Scott's plans (from the article in Recording magazine), and it
is fantastic. Just $20 in parts.

In actual practice, the noise from the mic in the final mix is
often imperceptable (it depends on mic placement and other factors).
For percussion, place the mic close to the source, but far enough
away to avoid overloading it, to get the most of its dynamic range.
When monitoring or evaluating the recorded track, turn down the
volume to what it will be in the final mix. You may be surprised
to find the noise just goes away, leaving a wonderfully clear
and transparent sound.

Other than a little noise, I can't find anything amiss with regards to
sound quality, and the mic has worked especially well with percussive,
high-frequency, transient sounds.

Something that's worked well for me is to use a noise reduction
plugin or other software processor to reduce the perceptable noise
floor in cases where it would otherwise be just barely audible.
For recording drums and other percussion, you probably won't need
it. For some other things, I've had good results as long as I don't
try to get too much from the noise reduction software.

Caveat: I mostly play electric guitar, and don't use mics often!

Jay Ts
--
To contact me, use this web page:
http://www.jayts.com/contact.php

[Geoff]

hank alrich wrote:
david correia wrote:

Few years back I put on a drum recording seminar at my place with
Mercenary's famous Fletcher and his teacher, Phil Greene.

We spent an afternoon micing a kit with the good stuff (mics), and
then at the end we replaced them all with 57's, kinda as a cheap
solution and a lark.

We were all amazed by how good it sounded! Not as good as the high
priced spread, but waaaay better than expected.

Of course, the drummer, the kit, and the room all were excellent.

And one more thing: the preamps into which the 57's looked were not
the presently ubiquitous transformerless cheapies. This alone makes a
world of difference with those mics. A 57 into my Mackie 1202 is not
to be appreciated. Into the Great River MP2-MH it's quite a surprise.

When dinosaurs walked this earth and real preamps had iron at the
input, 57's were better mics than they usualy are nowadaze.

Whop a parallel resistor to bring the load down to something around 500-600
ohms and it will be a lot more like you'd expect. Toms grow balls and
guitars aren't thin tizzy things.

geoff

[Mike Rivers]

On Sep 8, 1:49 pm, "DeeAa" wrote:

Damn, I bet those are nice ones, but the price...I just checked; delivered
here they'd come to pretty close to $200 a pair nevermind the low starting
price...

It ain't funny how expensive the deliveries have become now the gas prices
are so high :-(

I take it you're outside the US? Shipping is really becoming a racket,
though. I just paid about 1/3 the price of a box full of 1/4" phone
plugs weighing barely two pounds to ship them from Michigan to
Virginia. Actual shipping cost by a sensible carrier would have been
about $4 and if you really stretch it, the carton cost $1. So it cost
$4 to put them in the carton and stick the computer generated label
on.

I see that sort of thing with a lot of on-line companies and eBay
sellers. That's why I buy locally whenever I can. I get it right away,
I don't get ****ed because of the shipping charges, and if it's not
right, I can take it back. Unfortunately there are more and more
things that I want or need that just aren't sold in real stores any
more, most likely because the on-line sellers put them out of (that)
business.

[Tim Perry]

So thanks again, and if you can suggest good use for the 414 I'd
appreciate that too! The eighth channel is still free to use for
it :-)

Cheers,

Dee

414 : add pop filter, use for vocal

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . ..
"Les Cargill" wrote in message
g.com
Scott Dorsey wrote:
DeeAa wrote:
Which would you rather use (for recording drums) as
overhead mics: 1. a pair of Shure 57's
2. a pair of flat-response but cheap measurement mics
such as Behringer 8000's
3. a pair of cheap overhead mics such as Samson or
Behringer. I have a pair of 57's already, just pondering if it'll
give me any significant improvement to get something
else, given that I'm NOT going to spend a lot if any
money.

It will. The SM-57 is just awful as a farfield
microphone.

He's more likely thinking midfield - 6' or so.

That's pretty far for mics like SM57s that are basically vocal mics without
really good pop rejection.


57's will work for overheads in a pinch.... and fairly well if you have
some pixie-dust in your kit or up your sleeve.

[david correia]

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Les Cargill" wrote in message
g.com
Scott Dorsey wrote:
DeeAa wrote:
Which would you rather use (for recording drums) as
overhead mics: 1. a pair of Shure 57's
2. a pair of flat-response but cheap measurement mics
such as Behringer 8000's
3. a pair of cheap overhead mics such as Samson or
Behringer. I have a pair of 57's already, just pondering if it'll
give me any significant improvement to get something
else, given that I'm NOT going to spend a lot if any
money.

It will. The SM-57 is just awful as a farfield
microphone.

He's more likely thinking midfield - 6' or so.

That's pretty far for mics like SM57s that are basically vocal mics without
really good pop rejection.




I've only used 57's on punk and scratch vocals. Some Tyler Aerosmith
vocals were cut with 57's. I was told they would buy about 50 of them
and go thru them one at a time, and pick a couple they liked on his
voice, according to someone who's worked with those guys.

But to me, 57's are great snare drum and guitar amp mics. Great on
congas too.




David Correia
www.Celebrationsound.com

[nebulax]

On Sep 8, 10:59*am, DeeAa wrote:
Thanks guys, you've been very helpful indeed.

I've now decided to buy Behringer C2's or similar mics - I saw some
Fostex mics almost the same for the same price used locally - and I
might get those.

It's great that NG's like this have so many not only very
knowledgeable but also very helpful people; thanks again for all your
insights.

My goal is not to build a real studio, really, but record my band in
our 'basement' which is not the best place to record due to what has
to be drums location (near wall one side, cavernous concrete room with
some dampers) and the main issue is that I don't have any real
monitoring system...so I must just place the mics, check the Presonus
firepod/Cubase that levels are OK and record. I have to do all EQ'ing
after the fact and so on, recording directly to Cubase on my laptop.

But I'm pretty sure I can get nice sounds w/the setup now, when I get
the overheads.

I have a Samson kickdrum mic which is not the best, but when placed so
the capsule lines with the front skin of the KD, it works OK. I have 2
57's which I'll use for snare top/bottom, and the upcoming Behringers
for overheads in X config. I also have old AKGD109's for each tom,
which I plan to use mostly to get a peak from them and trigger tom
samples later via midi on the DAW. Maybe the same for kick if need be,

I also have an AKG414, just a single one, and I don't know yet how I
could use that for good effect; I was thinking maybe use it to get an
extra snare track, but any ideas are very welcome. I attempted using
it as a single overhead in figure 8 'pseudostero' but I didn't like
the results too much. Maybe it would work as a 'room' mic somehow, but
it seems to me since the room doesn't sound too good anyway I'm better
off without it.

So thanks again, and if you can suggest good use for the 414 I'd
appreciate that too! The eighth channel is still free to use for
it :-)

Cheers,

Dee


An extra 414 would work very well with your other one as stereo
overheads, but still probably not as cheap as a pair of Behringers.

-Neb

[DeeAa[_3_]]

On 9 syys, 11:03, nebulax wrote:
On Sep 8, 10:59*am, DeeAa wrote:



Thanks guys, you've been very helpful indeed.

I've now decided to buy Behringer C2's or similar mics - I saw some
Fostex mics almost the same for the same price used locally - and I
might get those.

It's great that NG's like this have so many not only very
knowledgeable but also very helpful people; thanks again for all your
insights.

My goal is not to build a real studio, really, but record my band in
our 'basement' which is not the best place to record due to what has
to be drums location (near wall one side, cavernous concrete room with
some dampers) and the main issue is that I don't have any real
monitoring system...so I must just place the mics, check the Presonus
firepod/Cubase that levels are OK and record. I have to do all EQ'ing
after the fact and so on, recording directly to Cubase on my laptop.

But I'm pretty sure I can get nice sounds w/the setup now, when I get
the overheads.

I have a Samson kickdrum mic which is not the best, but when placed so
the capsule lines with the front skin of the KD, it works OK. I have 2
57's which I'll use for snare top/bottom, and the upcoming Behringers
for overheads in X config. I also have old AKGD109's for each tom,
which I plan to use mostly to get a peak from them and trigger tom
samples later via midi on the DAW. Maybe the same for kick if need be,

I also have an AKG414, just a single one, and I don't know yet how I
could use that for good effect; I was thinking maybe use it to get an
extra snare track, but any ideas are very welcome. I attempted using
it as a single overhead in figure 8 'pseudostero' but I didn't like
the results too much. Maybe it would work as a 'room' mic somehow, but
it seems to me since the room doesn't sound too good anyway I'm better
off without it.

So thanks again, and if you can suggest good use for the 414 I'd
appreciate that too! The eighth channel is still free to use for
it :-)

Cheers,

Dee

An extra 414 would work very well with your other one as stereo
overheads, but still probably not as cheap as a pair of Behringers.

Yeah, I wish I could afford another one :-( but I suppose it's best
use 2 identical mics, even if cheaper ones.

I'm using the 414 mainly for vox, and for guitars as well along with
other mics.
Funny enough, I've used 57's for guitars but I've noticed there are
plenty of other mics, even much cheaper ones, that work much better
for guitar IMO.

I'll post a test 4 u guys as well I did on guitar mics.

Cheers,

Dee