[George K.]

I'm considering the purchase of a Synclavier for its Timbre Frame
Resynthesis capability, which is a type of wavetable synthesis.
(Crossfading over time between a succession of waves.) Before I plunk
down the cash however, I'd like to make real sure, I'm not spending $$$
$ to buy a unit that's just a close copy (okay, original) of my Korg
Legacy Wavestation's wave sequencing? (Which is also wavetable
synthesis.)

By itself, wavetable synthesis can be great or poor, depending on its
implementation, I still remember how lifeless it sounded to me on a
Waldorf MicroWave. (Your taste may differ). Its Legacy WaveStation
incarnation works so well for me, that in spite of having all kinds of
high-whiz newer synths from Chameleon to Metasynth, I still call most
often upon my Legacy Wavestation for a new track (often layered with
my Triton and EXS24, though.)

All in all, my question is: does anyone have hands-on experience with
the Synclavier's Timbre Frame Resynthesis AND the Korg Wavestation, to
comment whether adding a Synclavier for its wavetable synthesis
capability will expand my musically useful palette significantly? Or
am I dangerously close to blow $$$$ on a machine that will turn out to
be just an early version of my WaveStation?

(If I could only find a CD where an artist really uses the
Synclavier's wavetable synthesis capability to the max...)

Thank you in advance for your help

[Ron[_10_]]

no offence intended but..... if you spend so much cash (i guess a
synclavier does not come cheap, even today) it sounds a bit silly to me
to trust other people's judgement if you buy this thing purely for one
trick it does, without even knowing what it is or how it sounds....


ron


George K. wrote:
I'm considering the purchase of a Synclavier for its Timbre Frame
Resynthesis capability, which is a type of wavetable synthesis.
(Crossfading over time between a succession of waves.) Before I plunk
down the cash however, I'd like to make real sure, I'm not spending $$$
$ to buy a unit that's just a close copy (okay, original) of my Korg
Legacy Wavestation's wave sequencing? (Which is also wavetable
synthesis.)

By itself, wavetable synthesis can be great or poor, depending on its
implementation, I still remember how lifeless it sounded to me on a
Waldorf MicroWave. (Your taste may differ). Its Legacy WaveStation
incarnation works so well for me, that in spite of having all kinds of
high-whiz newer synths from Chameleon to Metasynth, I still call most
often upon my Legacy Wavestation for a new track (often layered with
my Triton and EXS24, though.)

All in all, my question is: does anyone have hands-on experience with
the Synclavier's Timbre Frame Resynthesis AND the Korg Wavestation, to
comment whether adding a Synclavier for its wavetable synthesis
capability will expand my musically useful palette significantly? Or
am I dangerously close to blow $$$$ on a machine that will turn out to
be just an early version of my WaveStation?

(If I could only find a CD where an artist really uses the
Synclavier's wavetable synthesis capability to the max...)

Thank you in advance for your help

[Rick Massey]

"George K." wrote in message
...
I'm considering the purchase of a Synclavier for its Timbre Frame
Resynthesis capability, which is a type of wavetable synthesis.
(Crossfading over time between a succession of waves.) Before I plunk
down the cash however, I'd like to make real sure, I'm not spending $$$
$ to buy a unit that's just a close copy (okay, original) of my Korg
Legacy Wavestation's wave sequencing? (Which is also wavetable
synthesis.)

By itself, wavetable synthesis can be great or poor, depending on its
implementation, I still remember how lifeless it sounded to me on a
Waldorf MicroWave. (Your taste may differ). Its Legacy WaveStation
incarnation works so well for me, that in spite of having all kinds of
high-whiz newer synths from Chameleon to Metasynth, I still call most
often upon my Legacy Wavestation for a new track (often layered with
my Triton and EXS24, though.)

All in all, my question is: does anyone have hands-on experience with
the Synclavier's Timbre Frame Resynthesis AND the Korg Wavestation, to
comment whether adding a Synclavier for its wavetable synthesis
capability will expand my musically useful palette significantly? Or
am I dangerously close to blow $$$$ on a machine that will turn out to
be just an early version of my WaveStation?

(If I could only find a CD where an artist really uses the
Synclavier's wavetable synthesis capability to the max...)

The Synclavier was the absolute top line instrument you could buy back in
those days. Though I deeply respect Dave Smith's design capability, (The
originator of the Wavestation) and his keyboard is on the later synclaviers
as the primary control interface for imputing notes, I can't imagine that
the Wavestation would compare to what the Synclavier could do. For one
thing, the synclavier has so many options for programming the thing that I
suspect your options would be vastly greater in dealing with wave
sequencing. You can probably define your own waves if you want to, their
order, direction of the wave in the sequence, start and end points, relative
volumes, place in the stereo field, and just about anything else you wanted
to. And with that you get a powerful sampler, FM synthesis with a lot of
operators, powerful sequencing capability, digital recording -- this is
still one seriously powerful music production system even today

My big concern is that they are a serious pain to get repaired. But if you
can afford it, don't hesitate to get it, because it's way up on the food
chain in the digital music realm, even today.

[H.P. Huey]

Rick Massey wrote:

My big concern is that they are a serious pain to get repaired. But
if you can afford it, don't hesitate to get it, because it's way up
on the food chain in the digital music realm, even today.

I don't know what the status of the Synclavier Users Group is these
days, as a consortium of serious users bought most of NED's assets when
the smoke cleared in court, some years ago. That brings into serious
question what you would do if the proprietary Reciprocating Magic Wand
Assembly blows out or you need a software patch in a specific area.
Considering the other tools you use, why do you want to tackle such a
vertiginous, elegant dinosaur now? There are many cheaper, easier ways
to do wave sequencing or enact other types of digimagic now. Its
especially true now that you can use any sound source as fuel, doing
mirror-images, hand-drawing of waveforms or LFO fading between numerous
elements.
That said, it depends on WHY you really want a Synclavier. Its not
easier or more accomodating to play than newer synths and it takes you
into a bit of a modular realm, in that you gotta wrangle it all by hand.

Start by looking into both the support aspect and what else is around
that will let you define a wave or sequence by frames.

--

HellPope Huey
You'll gladly pay me Tuesday
after some quickie rhinoplasty today

"This film is apparently meaningless,
but if it has any meaning,
it is doubtless objectionable."
~ British Board of Film Censors,
on banning Cocteau's
"The Seashell and the Clergyman" in 1929.

"An anarchist is anybody who don't need a cop
to tell him what to do."
~ Amon, via Utah Phillips

The late Utah Phillips speaks
http://acksisofevil.org/audio/inner182.mp3

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 01:57:51 -0700 (PDT), "George K."
wrote:

I'm considering the purchase of a Synclavier for its Timbre Frame
Resynthesis capability, which is a type of wavetable synthesis.
(Crossfading over time between a succession of waves.) Before I plunk
down the cash however, I'd like to make real sure, I'm not spending $$$
$ to buy a unit that's just a close copy (okay, original) of my Korg
Legacy Wavestation's wave sequencing? (Which is also wavetable
synthesis.)

You realise of course you'd be buying an expensive, hard to maintain
dinosaur? Is this a VERY special sound you're trying to reproduce?

[SODDI the Terraformed]

"George K." wrote in message
...
I'm considering the purchase of a Synclavier for its Timbre Frame
Resynthesis capability, which is a type of wavetable synthesis.
(Crossfading over time between a succession of waves.) Before I plunk
down the cash however, I'd like to make real sure, I'm not spending $$$
$ to buy a unit that's just a close copy (okay, original) of my Korg
Legacy Wavestation's wave sequencing? (Which is also wavetable
synthesis.)

By itself, wavetable synthesis can be great or poor, depending on its
implementation, I still remember how lifeless it sounded to me on a
Waldorf MicroWave. (Your taste may differ). Its Legacy WaveStation
incarnation works so well for me, that in spite of having all kinds of
high-whiz newer synths from Chameleon to Metasynth, I still call most
often upon my Legacy Wavestation for a new track (often layered with
my Triton and EXS24, though.)

All in all, my question is: does anyone have hands-on experience with
the Synclavier's Timbre Frame Resynthesis AND the Korg Wavestation, to
comment whether adding a Synclavier for its wavetable synthesis
capability will expand my musically useful palette significantly? Or
am I dangerously close to blow $$$$ on a machine that will turn out to
be just an early version of my WaveStation?

(If I could only find a CD where an artist really uses the
Synclavier's wavetable synthesis capability to the max...)

Thank you in advance for your help

Frank Zappa's "$50,00 boat anchor" or a software synth?

Tough call.

[Rick Massey]

"SODDI the Terraformed" wrote in message
...


Frank Zappa's "$50,00 boat anchor" or a software synth?

Tough call.
The only reason I'd probably pick one up is if I wanted to work in film
composition. The Synclavier name is still pretty golden in that industry,
and since it can do a lot of work specific to frame resolutions and has a
very wide soundset as well as solid MIDI support, it might be worth owning
it and paying the dues to the owner's group for repair if I was targeting
that industry.

Other than that, it's a huge time investment with limited return. Though not
in one box, what it can do can be done elsewhere, especially in software,
and in many cases, it's a lot cheaper and more flexible as well as higher in
quality.

[George K.]

On Jun 20, 2:56 am, Ron wrote:
no offence intended but..... if you spend so much cash (i guess a
synclavier does not come cheap, even today) it sounds a bit silly to me
to trust other people's judgement if you buy this thing purely for one
trick it does, without even knowing what it is or how it sounds....

To really know how similar or different the Synclavier and the
Wavestation are when you drive both at 101% as well as to form an
educated opinion takes someone with years and years of hands-on
experience with both. Flying over to the seller's place and doodling
with the Synclavier for a few hours is just a superficial scratch at
the units outermost layer. Instead of being 100% in fog, I'll be only
95% in fog, then, at the cost of $1K in plane tickets, car rental, etc
and I still won't have an educated answer.

[yoda]

On 2008-06-20 03:57:51 -0500, "George K." said:

I'm considering the purchase of a Synclavier for its Timbre Frame
Resynthesis capability, which is a type of wavetable synthesis.
(Crossfading over time between a succession of waves.) Before I plunk
down the cash however, I'd like to make real sure, I'm not spending $$$
$ to buy a unit that's just a close copy (okay, original) of my Korg
Legacy Wavestation's wave sequencing? (Which is also wavetable
synthesis.)

By itself, wavetable synthesis can be great or poor, depending on its
implementation, I still remember how lifeless it sounded to me on a
Waldorf MicroWave. (Your taste may differ). Its Legacy WaveStation
incarnation works so well for me, that in spite of having all kinds of
high-whiz newer synths from Chameleon to Metasynth, I still call most
often upon my Legacy Wavestation for a new track (often layered with
my Triton and EXS24, though.)

All in all, my question is: does anyone have hands-on experience with
the Synclavier's Timbre Frame Resynthesis AND the Korg Wavestation, to
comment whether adding a Synclavier for its wavetable synthesis
capability will expand my musically useful palette significantly? Or
am I dangerously close to blow $$$$ on a machine that will turn out to
be just an early version of my WaveStation?

(If I could only find a CD where an artist really uses the
Synclavier's wavetable synthesis capability to the max...)

Thank you in advance for your help

Kyma? I don't know offhand if it can do this, but it might.
--
-----------------------------
I only talk like that in the movies

[George K.]

(Symbolic Sound) Kyma is a big mystery to me. It has almost every
synthesis method on Earth, so I'm pretty sure it offer many
implementation of wavetable synthesis, too. The real question is, how
many of those produce musically enjoyable timbres. Its web demo mp3's
often remind me of a phrase I read once in Keyboard Magazine: "you
might synthesize the sound of a tree growing, but we are looking for
musically useful sounds here".

(But then my Chameleon and Metasynth remind me of that too... :-)

[nick chan]

if you're adamant on getting either synth, get a synclavier first, if
u could find a very good condition one

wavestation, u can get it anytime, it's 'quite' abundant. there's no
'rush' or 'urgency'

wavestation is still my all time fav synth.

On Jun 21, 2:54*am, "George K." wrote:
On Jun 20, 2:56 am, Ron wrote:

no offence intended but..... if you spend so much cash (i guess a
synclavier does not come cheap, even today) it sounds a bit silly to me
to trust other people's judgement if you buy this thing purely for one
trick it does, without even knowing what it is or how it sounds....

To really know how similar or different the Synclavier and the
Wavestation are when you drive both at 101% as well as to form an
educated opinion takes someone with years and years of hands-on
experience with both. Flying over to the seller's place and doodling
with the Synclavier for a few hours is just a superficial scratch at
the units outermost layer. Instead of being 100% in fog, I'll be only
95% in fog, then, at the cost of $1K in plane tickets, car rental, etc
and I still won't have an educated answer.

[George K.]

Start by looking into ... what else is around
that will let you define a wave or sequence by frames.

An interesting discovery: Digidesign's quarter-a-century old program,
Turbosynth 2.21x3 still works perfectly on my G5 ! I just tried it. I
remembered it because I used it for this kind of "wave sequencing", to
morph between sample snippets over time, in the early 80's. (On an
Atari ST, no less)
So the program still works perfectly, only my memory doesn't. I can't
recall how I used it to morph two samples, even though I've been
nagging it for the past hour. (The manual is gone.) Hmmm.

[yrret]

I'm just curious is this the thing Frank Zappa raves about in his
autobiography?

Been awhile since I read it but it was kind of a sad read because the kind
of tools he dreamed of having we're just beginning when he died.

[H.P. Huey]

yrret wrote:

I'm just curious is this the thing Frank Zappa raves about in his
autobiography?

Yes. Go read up on it. Its still a mainstay for a fair number of
studio pros, especially in TV/film production. Possibly the most
Boutique Instrument among synths, as it was both successful and way up
there in the stratosphere in several ways. I think it edges out the
Fairlight in that sense, even though more pop musicians embraced the
Fairlight. The Synclavier's functions are 98% reproduceable with far
less expense equipment now. If he was still alive, Frank would probably
be using a big ol' Mac and several programs such as MOTU's Mach Five, or
a similar PC and Emulator X. Those would let him do those razor edits
and splices he loved so much.
It haunts me to hear "Jazz from Hell" and have to accept that its the
only virtually-all-Synclavier release we'll ever hear from Frank. I
recommend that, too; it'll blow your mind right out of its housing and
show in clear terms why some of us sigh and roll our eyes over trance.
Frank wrote a piece that included carefully pitch-bent PIANO, making it
sing like a guitar. He's one of the big reasons you should know what the
Synclavier meant at the time and why its still sort of revered. BTW,
IIRC, Travis Powers, who has done sound effects for "The Simpsons" for
many years, uses it as a mainstay. The Synclavier has a good pedigree,
but a speckled history.

--

HellPope Huey
Be at peace with the Universe?
Aw hell, I can't even get through the libretto.

"Welcome to the show America prefers
3-to-1 over pinkeye!"
~ "Ka-Blam!"

Nice guys finish last, but we get to sleep in.
~ Evan Davis