[Karl Engel]

I often use a sideband keyed compressor for ducking music under narration in
PTLE, but I'd really like to try reducing the gain without compressing. I
don't have faders and want to avoid drawing envelopes everywhere if
possible. If my keyable compressors had make up gain that went into negative
and were left at 1:1 they would do this I imagine. But surely a zillion free
plug also do this. A quick search only turned up a VST one that needs the
key source on one channel and the target on the other of a stereo track, but
I'd rather keep using mono channels. I have VST & DX adaptors.
--

[Peter Kendell]

I read that as "ducking stool".

Burn the witch!

"Karl Engel" wrote in message
...

I often use a sideband keyed compressor for ducking music under narration
in
....

[Sean Conolly]

"Karl Engel" wrote in message
...

I often use a sideband keyed compressor for ducking music under narration
in PTLE, but I'd really like to try reducing the gain without compressing.
I don't have faders and want to avoid drawing envelopes everywhere if
possible. If my keyable compressors had make up gain that went into
negative and were left at 1:1 they would do this I imagine. But surely a
zillion free plug also do this. A quick search only turned up a VST one
that needs the key source on one channel and the target on the other of a
stereo track, but I'd rather keep using mono channels. I have VST & DX
adaptors.

You can do that with a compressor just fine. Simply set the hold and release
values to what you would do with a fader, the threshold deep enough that the
voice keeps it active, and the ratio for how much the nusic should be
reduced below the voiceover.

The undesireable artifacts of compression are really when you're trying to
reduce the dynamic range of a signal. In your case you're reducing the
amplitude, but the relative range is the same, just like using a fader.

Hope this makes sense,

Sean

[Scott Dorsey]

In article ,
Karl Engel wrote:

I often use a sideband keyed compressor for ducking music under narration in
PTLE, but I'd really like to try reducing the gain without compressing.

But you _aren't_ compressing. The level of the original signal isn't keying
the compressor at all. If there is no actual narration, the signal is
unchanged.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mark]

On Jun 1, 12:41*am, "Karl Engel" wrote:
I often use a sideband keyed compressor for ducking music under narration in...........

I think the term you are looking for is SIDECHAIN.

You may have better luck with your search using that term..

Mark

[Karl Engel]

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Jun 1, 12:41 am, "Karl Engel" wrote:
I often use a sideband keyed compressor for ducking music under narration
in...........

I think the term you are looking for is SIDECHAIN.

You may have better luck with your search using that term..

Mark


Yes sidechain, of course, thanks Mark.
Scott, naturally no compression is occurring when there's no narration, but
I must be missing something really obvious here. I'd like to just lower the
gain of the music during narration, not compress it.

Earlier Sean said
"The undesirable artefacts of compression are really when you're trying to
reduce the dynamic range of a signal. In your case you're reducing the
amplitude, but the relative range is the same, just like using a fader."


With a compressor on the music track keyed to the narration track, how can
it not be squashing the music as it reduces the amplitude?
Sure I want a plug in that works just like a fader, but I don't see that I
can achieve this with a compressor unless the make up gain control goes
negative and it's kept at 1:1

I do own a number of RNCs but would like to keep these projects all "in the
box" for simplicity sake.

[Sean Conolly]

"Karl Engel" wrote in message
...

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Jun 1, 12:41 am, "Karl Engel" wrote:
I often use a sideband keyed compressor for ducking music under narration
in...........

I think the term you are looking for is SIDECHAIN.

You may have better luck with your search using that term..

Mark


Yes sidechain, of course, thanks Mark.
Scott, naturally no compression is occurring when there's no narration,
but I must be missing something really obvious here. I'd like to just
lower the gain of the music during narration, not compress it.

Earlier Sean said
"The undesirable artefacts of compression are really when you're trying to
reduce the dynamic range of a signal. In your case you're reducing the
amplitude, but the relative range is the same, just like using a fader."


With a compressor on the music track keyed to the narration track, how can
it not be squashing the music as it reduces the amplitude?
Sure I want a plug in that works just like a fader, but I don't see that I
can achieve this with a compressor unless the make up gain control goes
negative and it's kept at 1:1

I do own a number of RNCs but would like to keep these projects all "in
the box" for simplicity sake.

You're just misunderstanding what a compressor does. Read this - especially
the section on side-chaining:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_level_compression

The classic use of a compressor is to reduce the level of the loud parts but
not the soft parts, which effectively squashes the dynamic range. For
ducking the sidechain input is a completely unrelated signal, so all parts
of the music are affected the same, just like using a fader would do.

Sean

[Scott Dorsey]

Karl Engel wrote:

Yes sidechain, of course, thanks Mark.
Scott, naturally no compression is occurring when there's no narration, but
I must be missing something really obvious here. I'd like to just lower the
gain of the music during narration, not compress it.

That is what a compressor does. It lowers the gain.

A compressor has two parts... it's got a detector, that generates a voltage
that is somehow proportional to the input (or the sidechain input), and it
has a variable gain amplifier, whose gain changes in response to the control
voltage.

All a compressor is, is just a VCA and a detector. If the control voltage
from the detector is constant, the action of the VCA is to keep a constant
gain.

There is no magic about a compressor, and a compressor doesn't do anything
that you couldn't do by hand with fader-riding, if you could ride it fast
enough.

Earlier Sean said
"The undesirable artefacts of compression are really when you're trying to
reduce the dynamic range of a signal. In your case you're reducing the
amplitude, but the relative range is the same, just like using a fader."


With a compressor on the music track keyed to the narration track, how can
it not be squashing the music as it reduces the amplitude?

It's reducing the amplitude, just as if you had pulled down on the fader.
This is not "squashing," it's just turning it down. Because the control
signal voltage is increasing, so the gain of the VCA decreases to compensate
for it.

Sure I want a plug in that works just like a fader, but I don't see that I
can achieve this with a compressor unless the make up gain control goes
negative and it's kept at 1:1

ALL compressors act just like a fader. There is no magic in the box.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 11:01:02 +1000, "Karl Engel"
wrote:

With a compressor on the music track keyed to the narration track, how can
it not be squashing the music as it reduces the amplitude?
Sure I want a plug in that works just like a fader, but I don't see that I
can achieve this with a compressor unless the make up gain control goes
negative and it's kept at 1:1

A compressor set up as described will work just like a fader.