[Carey Carlan]

Recording a live choral concert this weekend in a room with very noisy
HVAC. I had to set up close to overcome the room S/N, but I couldn't set
up in the middle as the performers moved through. That left me with the
only alternative of A-B hypers.

Bad as that seems, it wouldn't have been a problem except that the only (by
process of elimination) place I could place one of my stands was directly
in the draft of an air vent. The direct buffeting causes near peak level
bursts of infrasonics plus a little into the bass range. The very worst
had components up to 200 Hz.

I have never used foam windscreens indoors. They kill too much of the top
end, and I don't know if they'd have kept this much air undercontrol. I
can't use a zeppelin in front of a performing group, and I couldn't get
close enough to use omnis in this reverberant hall.

My solution was to just live with it and high pass everything. As most of
the concert was without instruments (a cappella) I (a) had plenty of leeway
to lose the bass and (b) had plenty of need as the noise was very exposed.

Any other thoughts?

[Mark]

On May 20, 8:58*am, Carey Carlan wrote:
Recording a live choral concert this weekend in a room with very noisy
HVAC. *I had to set up close to overcome the room S/N, but I couldn't set
up in the middle as the performers moved through. *That left me with the
only alternative of A-B hypers.

Bad as that seems, it wouldn't have been a problem except that the only (by
process of elimination) place I could place one of my stands was directly
in the draft of an air vent. *The direct buffeting causes near peak level
bursts of infrasonics plus a little into the bass range. *The very worst
had components up to 200 Hz.

I have never used foam windscreens indoors. *They kill too much of the top
end, and I don't know if they'd have kept this much air undercontrol. *I
can't use a zeppelin in front of a performing group, and I couldn't get
close enough to use omnis in this reverberant hall.

My solution was to just live with it and high pass everything. *As most of
the concert was without instruments (a cappella) I (a) had plenty of leeway
to lose the bass and (b) had plenty of need as the noise was very exposed.

Any other thoughts?

use the foam pop filters then EQ the high end back up as required

or block the air vent


Mark

[Scott Dorsey]

Carey Carlan wrote:

I have never used foam windscreens indoors. They kill too much of the top
end, and I don't know if they'd have kept this much air undercontrol. I
can't use a zeppelin in front of a performing group, and I couldn't get
close enough to use omnis in this reverberant hall.

My solution was to just live with it and high pass everything. As most of
the concert was without instruments (a cappella) I (a) had plenty of leeway
to lose the bass and (b) had plenty of need as the noise was very exposed.

Any other thoughts?

Baby ball gag. Lower cross-section than a zeppelin and less silly-looking,
but nearly as effective. Less expensive too, but still over a hundred bucks
each. Maybe more now that the dollar is collapsing, but in the Rycote
catalogue.

Olsen Audio Group makes some big foam windscreens that are less disruptive
at high frequencies than most of them, and pretty effective, for around
$25 each.

A few years ago I did a live concert series where the temporary stage had been
placed directly under the HVAC vents for the ballroom, where I had
specifically said not to put it. The Olsen screens worked pretty well,
although the musicians kept losing their place because the wind kept blowing
their sheet music off the stands.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Arny Krueger]

"Carey Carlan" wrote in message


Recording a live choral concert this weekend in a room
with very noisy HVAC. I had to set up close to overcome
the room S/N, but I couldn't set up in the middle as the
performers moved through. That left me with the only
alternative of A-B hypers.

FWIW my preferred method for recording choirs is X/Y hypercardiods. After
trying a lot of different hypercardiods, I settled on of all things, Samson
C01s in shock mounts.

Bad as that seems, it wouldn't have been a problem except
that the only (by process of elimination) place I could
place one of my stands was directly in the draft of an
air vent. The direct buffeting causes near peak level
bursts of infrasonics plus a little into the bass range.
The very worst had components up to 200 Hz.

Ouch! So now you get to learn about the wonders of foamies and shaggies.

I have never used foam windscreens indoors.

Lucky you! They can be lifesavers on top of vocal mics with good enough
windscreens, if you do a lot of work with amateur soloists and small group
singers.

They kill too much of the top end,

Good foamies are supposed to be acoustically transparent. We also use
foamies on measurement mics.

and I don't know if they'd have
kept this much air undercontrol. I can't use a zeppelin
in front of a performing group, and I couldn't get close
enough to use omnis in this reverberant hall.

Usually, foamies do the job unless you're in a windstorm.

My solution was to just live with it and high pass
everything.

If there was HVAC noise, you probably would have to do this anyway.

The good news is that most choirs aren't naturally producers of strong low
bass.

As most of the concert was without
instruments (a cappella) I (a) had plenty of leeway to
lose the bass and (b) had plenty of need as the noise was
very exposed.

Been there, done that way too many times.

[[email protected]]

On May 20, 5:58*am, Carey Carlan wrote:
Recording a live choral concert this weekend in a room with very noisy
HVAC. *I had to set up close to overcome the room S/N, but I couldn't set
up in the middle as the performers moved through. *That left me with the
only alternative of A-B hypers.

Bad as that seems, it wouldn't have been a problem except that the only (by
process of elimination) place I could place one of my stands was directly
in the draft of an air vent. *The direct buffeting causes near peak level
bursts of infrasonics plus a little into the bass range. *The very worst
had components up to 200 Hz.

I have never used foam windscreens indoors. *They kill too much of the top
end, and I don't know if they'd have kept this much air undercontrol. *I
can't use a zeppelin in front of a performing group, and I couldn't get
close enough to use omnis in this reverberant hall.

My solution was to just live with it and high pass everything. *As most of
the concert was without instruments (a cappella) I (a) had plenty of leeway
to lose the bass and (b) had plenty of need as the noise was very exposed.

Any other thoughts?

If you need to do this again you may want to look at K-Tek Fuzzies.
They don't lose too much of the top end and aren't as big as the
zeppelins. They are VERY EFFECTIVE at killing outdoor wind noise. I
have a sample video doing a crossfade between the camcorder mounted
mic and K-Tek Fuzzy equipped ORTF with hypercardioids. The demo is
quite amazing.

bobs

BS Studios / SoundSmith Labs
we organize chaos

[Paul Stamler]

I've found the foam windscreens Neumann makes for their KM 184 mics to be
pretty sonically transparent. I'm told the AKG foam screens for the C451
series are even more so.

Peace,
Paul

[Carey Carlan]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in
:

"Carey Carlan" wrote in message


Recording a live choral concert this weekend in a room
with very noisy HVAC. I had to set up close to overcome
the room S/N, but I couldn't set up in the middle as the
performers moved through. That left me with the only
alternative of A-B hypers.

FWIW my preferred method for recording choirs is X/Y hypercardiods.
After trying a lot of different hypercardiods, I settled on of all
things, Samson C01s in shock mounts.

X-Y wasn't an option here as I couldn't put a stand in the middle. I
was pushed to the sides.

Bad as that seems, it wouldn't have been a problem except
that the only (by process of elimination) place I could
place one of my stands was directly in the draft of an
air vent. The direct buffeting causes near peak level
bursts of infrasonics plus a little into the bass range.
The very worst had components up to 200 Hz.

Ouch! So now you get to learn about the wonders of foamies and
shaggies.

I have never used foam windscreens indoors.

Lucky you! They can be lifesavers on top of vocal mics with good
enough windscreens, if you do a lot of work with amateur soloists and
small group singers.

I don't do handheld very often. In that case I wouldn't care about the
top end.

Good foamies are supposed to be acoustically transparent. We also use
foamies on measurement mics.

How do you keep from rolling off with a windscreen attached? Or do you
just compensate?

[Carey Carlan]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in
:

Baby ball gag. Lower cross-section than a zeppelin and less
silly-looking, but nearly as effective. Less expensive too, but still
over a hundred bucks each. Maybe more now that the dollar is
collapsing, but in the Rycote catalogue.

Would that require or desire the fuzzy Windjammer also? or does the ball
work well alone.

Olsen Audio Group makes some big foam windscreens that are less
disruptive at high frequencies than most of them, and pretty
effective, for around $25 each.

How clear on the top end?

A few years ago I did a live concert series where the temporary stage
had been placed directly under the HVAC vents for the ballroom, where
I had specifically said not to put it. The Olsen screens worked
pretty well, although the musicians kept losing their place because
the wind kept blowing their sheet music off the stands.

The issue here is two-fold. Yes, I was in the direct blast from the vent.
That was my misfortune. But even away from the vent the rumble and hiss
are both clearly audible throughout the room. I need every last bit of
high end to punch through the equivalent of an engine running in the next
room.

[Carey Carlan]

wrote in
:

If you need to do this again you may want to look at K-Tek Fuzzies.
They don't lose too much of the top end and aren't as big as the
zeppelins. They are VERY EFFECTIVE at killing outdoor wind noise. I
have a sample video doing a crossfade between the camcorder mounted
mic and K-Tek Fuzzy equipped ORTF with hypercardioids. The demo is
quite amazing.

Thanks, Bob. I'm following the Rycote vs K-Tek battle in RAMPS.

The 3" Fuzzy looks like it might work. I can't find a K-Tek website, but
B&H describes it pretty well. The fuzzy cover is not removable (to reveal
the foam innards) right?

Can I assume a fuzzy cover loses more HF than a foam ball without a cover?
But the fuzzy reduces wind noise better?

[Arny Krueger]

"Carey Carlan" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in
:

"Carey Carlan" wrote in message


I have never used foam windscreens indoors.

Lucky you! They can be lifesavers on top of vocal mics
with good enough windscreens, if you do a lot of work
with amateur soloists and small group singers.

I don't do handheld very often. In that case I wouldn't
care about the top end.

Point taken. I have a vocalist who always takes the foamy off her mic
because she thinks it causes to much loss that it keeps her voice from
"cutting through".

Good foamies are supposed to be acoustically
transparent. We also use foamies on measurement mics.

How do you keep from rolling off with a windscreen attached?

The measurements I've seen suggest that there isn't a lot of high end roll
off in a well-made foamie.

Or do you just compensate?

We've got a harsh-sounding room, so I roll the top off of virtually all
voices.

[Scott Dorsey]

Carey Carlan wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote in
:

Baby ball gag. Lower cross-section than a zeppelin and less
silly-looking, but nearly as effective. Less expensive too, but still
over a hundred bucks each. Maybe more now that the dollar is
collapsing, but in the Rycote catalogue.

Would that require or desire the fuzzy Windjammer also? or does the ball
work well alone.

The ball works alone. The Windjammer system is more effective than the
ball, but it rolls off a little more of the high end and costs a whole
lot more.

Olsen Audio Group makes some big foam windscreens that are less
disruptive at high frequencies than most of them, and pretty
effective, for around $25 each.

How clear on the top end?

You can tell the difference when you remove them, but it's not offensive.
I use them for outdoor events whether not not I think they'll be needed.

A few years ago I did a live concert series where the temporary stage
had been placed directly under the HVAC vents for the ballroom, where
I had specifically said not to put it. The Olsen screens worked
pretty well, although the musicians kept losing their place because
the wind kept blowing their sheet music off the stands.

The issue here is two-fold. Yes, I was in the direct blast from the vent.
That was my misfortune. But even away from the vent the rumble and hiss
are both clearly audible throughout the room. I need every last bit of
high end to punch through the equivalent of an engine running in the next
room.

You can't do anything about the HVAC noise, but you can do something about
the direct blast. The thing is, the top end you lose with the windscreen
is mostly symmetric, so it can be restored a little with equalization... and
odds are most of what is in the top octave isn't so good anyway because it's
got HVAC noise up there too.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Carey Carlan wrote:
Can I assume a fuzzy cover loses more HF than a foam ball without a cover?
But the fuzzy reduces wind noise better?

Not necessarily. You can get fuzzy covers and balls in different
configurations, from big to little.

In general for the same wind noise reduction, the fuzzy cover will lose less
high end than the ball.

The good quality balls contain several different density materials layered
on top of one another; they are mechanical high-pass filters that work by
using different impedance materials and are much more effective than just
sticking a cheap block of open-cell foam on the mike.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."