[MSchmidt]

Been using Echo cards my whole mixing life... current model is the Gina G3
(PCI).

I was simply wondering if another card out there would perform better
latency-wise, with regards to Sonar 7 tracking & mixing. For instance, Echo
seems to be pushing its Firewire models centerstage, leaving you with the
impression that the PCI models are outdated. Are they, though? Do I stand to
gain anything with regards to latency if I switch to Firewire-based models?

Or, more drastically, is Echo a company you'd recommend I leave behind
altogether?

(For what it's worth, I don't need multiple outputs, even though the Gina
goes up to 6.)

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Thu, 15 May 2008 17:46:29 -0400, "MSchmidt" wrote:

Been using Echo cards my whole mixing life... current model is the Gina G3
(PCI).

I was simply wondering if another card out there would perform better
latency-wise, with regards to Sonar 7 tracking & mixing. For instance, Echo
seems to be pushing its Firewire models centerstage, leaving you with the
impression that the PCI models are outdated. Are they, though? Do I stand to
gain anything with regards to latency if I switch to Firewire-based models?

Or, more drastically, is Echo a company you'd recommend I leave behind
altogether?

(For what it's worth, I don't need multiple outputs, even though the Gina
goes up to 6.)



What latency are you achieving with your Gina? Do you have a
particular reason for chasing latency to the lowest possible figure?

PCI cards are obsolete in so much as computer motherboards are now
moving toward PCIe slots. Currently you can still get both, but PCI
will soon go the way of ISA. But a card such as your Gina is quite
mature technology and there's no point in throwing it out until you
move to a coputer that it won't fit into.

[MSchmidt]

Guess not. ;-)

"MSchmidt" wrote in message
...
Been using Echo cards my whole mixing life... current model is the Gina G3
(PCI).

I was simply wondering if another card out there would perform better
latency-wise, with regards to Sonar 7 tracking & mixing. For instance,
Echo seems to be pushing its Firewire models centerstage, leaving you with
the impression that the PCI models are outdated. Are they, though? Do I
stand to gain anything with regards to latency if I switch to
Firewire-based models?

Or, more drastically, is Echo a company you'd recommend I leave behind
altogether?

(For what it's worth, I don't need multiple outputs, even though the Gina
goes up to 6.)

[drichard]

Hi,

If you already have one, and as long as your motherboard supports PCI,
the 3G is fine. Just realize that as the industry goes forward PCI is
going to fade away, though I'm not convinced it will as quickly as
some suggest. Eventually you will need something else. But I have
several PCI cards, and I'm not giving up on them for quite a while.

Dean

On May 15, 4:46*pm, "MSchmidt" wrote:
Been using Echo cards my whole mixing life... current model is the Gina G3
(PCI).

I was simply wondering if another card out there would perform better
latency-wise, with regards to Sonar 7 tracking & mixing. For instance, Echo
seems to be pushing its Firewire models centerstage, leaving you with the
impression that the PCI models are outdated. Are they, though? Do I stand to
gain anything with regards to latency if I switch to Firewire-based models?

Or, more drastically, is Echo a company you'd recommend I leave behind
altogether?

(For what it's worth, I don't need multiple outputs, even though the Gina
goes up to 6.)

[MSchmidt]

What will PCI be dropped in favor of? I thought PCI was the most direct (and
hence, fastest response) connection a sound device could have with a
motherboard. Is that assumption wrong?

"drichard" wrote in message
...

Hi,

If you already have one, and as long as your motherboard supports PCI,
the 3G is fine. Just realize that as the industry goes forward PCI is
going to fade away, though I'm not convinced it will as quickly as
some suggest. Eventually you will need something else. But I have
several PCI cards, and I'm not giving up on them for quite a while.

Dean

[drichard]

Hi,

There is a new standard, PCIe, which seems poised to take over for
most purposes. But for audio interfaces, firewire and USB have become
prevalent, which I don't consider good news. I hope that there is
enough demand that PCIe audio interfaces will start to appear.

Dean

On Jun 20, 12:06*pm, "MSchmidt" wrote:
What will PCI be dropped in favor of? I thought PCI was the most direct (and
hence, fastest response) connection a sound device could have with a
motherboard. Is that assumption wrong?

"drichard" wrote in message

...

Hi,

If you already have one, and as long as your motherboard supports PCI,
the 3G is fine. Just realize that as the industry goes forward PCI is
going to fade away, though I'm not convinced it will as quickly as
some suggest. Eventually you will need something else. But I have
several PCI cards, and I'm not giving up on them for quite a while.

Dean

[MSchmidt]

But regardless of which is becoming more popular or not, at equal quality
specs, which of PCI, PCIe, Firewire or USB is most likely to provide the
fastest response? (ie, lowest latency)

"drichard" wrote in message
...
Hi,

There is a new standard, PCIe, which seems poised to take over for
most purposes. But for audio interfaces, firewire and USB have become
prevalent, which I don't consider good news. I hope that there is
enough demand that PCIe audio interfaces will start to appear.

[Steve Karl]

PCI or possibly pci-E (if you can find one)



"MSchmidt" wrote in message ...
But regardless of which is becoming more popular or not, at equal quality specs, which of PCI, PCIe, Firewire or USB is most
likely to provide the fastest response? (ie, lowest latency)

"drichard" wrote in message ...
Hi,

There is a new standard, PCIe, which seems poised to take over for
most purposes. But for audio interfaces, firewire and USB have become
prevalent, which I don't consider good news. I hope that there is
enough demand that PCIe audio interfaces will start to appear.

[RD Jones]

On Jun 23, 12:47*pm, "MSchmidt" wrote:
But regardless of which is becoming more popular or not, at equal quality
specs, which of PCI, PCIe, Firewire or USB is most likely to provide the
fastest response? (ie, lowest latency)

It'll be either the PCI or PCIe. Using Firewire or USB (or lightpipe
for that
matter) you are adding another "layer". The data path still has to
navigate
accross the main PCI bus.

I suspect that the reason for the newer PCIe is more cost driven with
a
smaller/cheaper edgecard connector than it is performance. Although
any newer product can be expected to have more refined performance.

I really don't care for USB audio for more than 2 channels.
I've got a mix of RME lightpipe stuff and an Echo Mia for 2 channel
analog and sp/dif.

I wouldn't worry too much yet about PCI and lightpipe going away.
The full-sized PCI slots will continue to be offered for "legacy"
cards.
Keeping up with the bleeding edge is a job for computer geeks, not
audio guys who need to pay more attention to what's outside the box.

rd

[max rock[_2_]]

PCIe is the new faster version of PCI (which although aging is faster
than both external interfaces). PCI slots transfer data one way at a
time. PCIe can send and receive data at the same time. Therefore
more data on the bus to/from your CPU. Even the 1x flavor of PCIe
handles about double the bandwidth of PCI (PCI - 132MB per second,
PCIe 1x 250 MB/s).

max rock

On Jun 23, 1:47*pm, "MSchmidt" wrote:
But regardless of which is becoming more popular or not, at equal quality
specs, which of PCI, PCIe, Firewire or USB is most likely to provide the
fastest response? (ie, lowest latency)

"drichard" wrote in message

...
Hi,

There is a new standard, PCIe, which seems poised to take over for
most purposes. But for audio interfaces, firewire and USB have become
prevalent, which I don't consider good news. I hope that there is
enough demand that PCIe audio interfaces will start to appear.

[Phoenix]

That's what I read too.

"max rock" wrote in message
...
PCIe is the new faster version of PCI (which although aging is faster
than both external interfaces). PCI slots transfer data one way at a
time. PCIe can send and receive data at the same time. Therefore
more data on the bus to/from your CPU. Even the 1x flavor of PCIe
handles about double the bandwidth of PCI (PCI - 132MB per second,
PCIe 1x 250 MB/s).

max rock

On Jun 23, 1:47 pm, "MSchmidt" wrote:
But regardless of which is becoming more popular or not, at equal quality
specs, which of PCI, PCIe, Firewire or USB is most likely to provide the
fastest response? (ie, lowest latency)

"drichard" wrote in message

...
Hi,

There is a new standard, PCIe, which seems poised to take over for
most purposes. But for audio interfaces, firewire and USB have become
prevalent, which I don't consider good news. I hope that there is
enough demand that PCIe audio interfaces will start to appear.

[Ricky Hunt]

I read somewhere not to mix PCIe audio cards and video cards (stick to AGP
video cards).

"MSchmidt" wrote in message
...
But regardless of which is becoming more popular or not, at equal quality
specs, which of PCI, PCIe, Firewire or USB is most likely to provide the
fastest response? (ie, lowest latency)

"drichard" wrote in message
...
Hi,

There is a new standard, PCIe, which seems poised to take over for
most purposes. But for audio interfaces, firewire and USB have become
prevalent, which I don't consider good news. I hope that there is
enough demand that PCIe audio interfaces will start to appear.

[Phoenix]

Well, my new mobo doesn't have an AGP slot, so I had to get a PCIe video
card anyway.

"Ricky Hunt" wrote in message
news:k8g8k.224403$yE1.81153@attbi_s21...
I read somewhere not to mix PCIe audio cards and video cards (stick to AGP
video cards).

"MSchmidt" wrote in message
...
But regardless of which is becoming more popular or not, at equal quality
specs, which of PCI, PCIe, Firewire or USB is most likely to provide the
fastest response? (ie, lowest latency)

"drichard" wrote in message
...
Hi,

There is a new standard, PCIe, which seems poised to take over for
most purposes. But for audio interfaces, firewire and USB have become
prevalent, which I don't consider good news. I hope that there is
enough demand that PCIe audio interfaces will start to appear.

[Ricky Hunt]

"Phoenix" wrote in message
...
Well, my new mobo doesn't have an AGP slot, so I had to get a PCIe video
card anyway.

Apparently it's only on some mobo's/combinations.

[MSchmidt]

I'd really love to have an answer on this. *sheepish look*

"MSchmidt" wrote in message
...
But regardless of which is becoming more popular or not, at equal quality
specs, which of PCI, PCIe, Firewire or USB is most likely to provide the
fastest response? (ie, lowest latency)

"drichard" wrote in message
...
Hi,

There is a new standard, PCIe, which seems poised to take over for
most purposes. But for audio interfaces, firewire and USB have become
prevalent, which I don't consider good news. I hope that there is
enough demand that PCIe audio interfaces will start to appear.

[Romeo Rondeau[_4_]]

MSchmidt wrote:
I'd really love to have an answer on this. *sheepish look*

"MSchmidt" wrote in message
...
But regardless of which is becoming more popular or not, at equal quality
specs, which of PCI, PCIe, Firewire or USB is most likely to provide the
fastest response? (ie, lowest latency)

"drichard" wrote in message
...
Hi,

There is a new standard, PCIe, which seems poised to take over for
most purposes. But for audio interfaces, firewire and USB have become
prevalent, which I don't consider good news. I hope that there is
enough demand that PCIe audio interfaces will start to appear.

The answer is yes. They will all provide low latency if you are talking
about monitoring. If you are talking about monitoring through the box
(something I don't recommend), then you are talking about the fastest
one, which at this stage is PCIe. But then again, you know the answer to
this already.

[Phoenix]

You might also check which slots--PCI or PCIe--would give the FW card the
best IRQ (ideally, not sharing with anything, or at least not sharing with
much). All things being equal, however, why not go with PCIe? The prices are
about the same, and even if you are not monitoring through the box, why not
have the bandwidth?

"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message
...
MSchmidt wrote:
I'd really love to have an answer on this. *sheepish look*

"MSchmidt" wrote in message
...
But regardless of which is becoming more popular or not, at equal
quality specs, which of PCI, PCIe, Firewire or USB is most likely to
provide the fastest response? (ie, lowest latency)

"drichard" wrote in message
...
Hi,

There is a new standard, PCIe, which seems poised to take over for
most purposes. But for audio interfaces, firewire and USB have become
prevalent, which I don't consider good news. I hope that there is
enough demand that PCIe audio interfaces will start to appear.

The answer is yes. They will all provide low latency if you are talking
about monitoring. If you are talking about monitoring through the box
(something I don't recommend), then you are talking about the fastest one,
which at this stage is PCIe. But then again, you know the answer to this
already.

[Donk]

If you are talking about monitoring through the box (something I don't recommend)

What does "monitoring through the box" mean?

Thanks,

Don


On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 22:15:57 -0400, "Phoenix"
wrote:

You might also check which slots--PCI or PCIe--would give the FW card the
best IRQ (ideally, not sharing with anything, or at least not sharing with
much). All things being equal, however, why not go with PCIe? The prices are
about the same, and even if you are not monitoring through the box, why not
have the bandwidth?

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Donk" wrote in message

If you are talking about monitoring through the box (something I don't recommend)

What does "monitoring through the box" mean?

Post PC or computer input instead of in the hardware world.

[ramtazz]

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:47:13 -0400, "MSchmidt" wrote:

But regardless of which is becoming more popular or not, at equal quality
specs, which of PCI, PCIe, Firewire or USB is most likely to provide the
fastest response? (ie, lowest latency)

"drichard" wrote in message
...
Hi,

There is a new standard, PCIe, which seems poised to take over for
most purposes. But for audio interfaces, firewire and USB have become
prevalent, which I don't consider good news. I hope that there is
enough demand that PCIe audio interfaces will start to appear.

I've used A MOTU 2408 MKI PCI for years... only now do I want to get
into the soft synth realm. Well Updated the mother board... long story
short... I have to update the PCI card to their PCI or PCI (E) variant
firewire card because my motherboard's bus is bascically too fast for
the card and after the buss cache is filled the card rolls over
(glitch spike) and either woulld BSOD the machine or now with new
settings just tells Sonar it's had enough and sonar croaks.

PCI-E (x) is in alot of new PC motherboards and all the macs as well.

I would of went with the new MOTU 833(??) the one with the onboard
la-2a type compression and etc. If I didn't just buy the konnect live
mobile firewire interface which kinda does some of the same things on
my laptop, I would of usedthe motu for both. This update $302... is
the lesser of the two evils I guess.

How this started.. I was using B4... loaded up Atmosphere.. and ran
fine... restarted machine next day worked on same song.. POOF BSOD.

I had read awhile ago about MOTU's old cards needing to be updated
because they weren't 100% compt with newer motherboards.... for just a
couple channels in/out audio... it was... anything else.... well its
the price you pay to stay current I guess.

Bill
Rampage Sound Studios
Lancaster, Pa
http://www.rampagesoundstudios.com
http://www.myspace.com/rampagesoundstudios