[Nil]

I guess this isn't quite on-topic for this group, but I figure many
people here have some experience with this...

A few years ago I bought a repair kit to replace the deteriorating foam
surrounds on my 10" JBL stereo speakers. At the time only one surround
needed doing, so I only used one surround. Now the other speaker needs
it, but I find the bottle of adhesive has dried up.

What kind of glue would you recommend for this? Rubber cement? White
(Elmers) glue? Contact cement? Other?

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Sun, 04 May 2008 15:45:18 -0500, Nil
wrote:

a repair kit to replace the deteriorating foam surrounds

What kind of glue would you recommend for this? Rubber cement? White
(Elmers) glue? Contact cement? Other?

I hope you'll get better responses (than mine) from this,
but failing that: I've made various repairs over the years
with all kinds of adhesives.

The perhaps interesting bit is that the adhesives have to
connect point A to point B, via surround S, so the particular "A" and
"B" matter as much as anything else, including "S".

Rubber cement is almost never good for both surfaces. Elmers
white works in many old-fashioned speaker drivers with
paper cones, foam replacement surrounds, painted steel frames,
and little expected life expectancy. The usual case... But:

My strongest recommendation is to get a new bottle of the
original, but if you've ruled that out, you're into the
brave new world of chemical experimentation. Just stay
away from the brown acid and you'll be fine.

All the best fortune,

Chris Hornbeck
"It's for compatibility with 8-Track."
-scott

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Sun, 04 May 2008 15:45:18 -0500, Nil
wrote:

so I only used one surround. Now the other speaker needs
it, but I find the bottle of adhesive has dried up.

Posted seperately, so as to not be (as) mean (as required
to emphasize the issue):

Never, ever, ever, never, operate on a single speaker driver
of a pair. And, if you get yerself a single speaker and
intend to make it into a pair, you've got some cypherin'
to do. Less so, or more so, depends. And save the discarded
pieces for other folks trying to do the same.

Yeah, I know, it sounds like BS, but speakers vary a lot,
and matching isn't Rocket Surgery, so some minimal efforts
do actually pay off.


All the best fortune,

Chris Hornbeck
"It's for compatibility with 8-Track."
-scott

[Richard Crowley]

"Chris Hornbeck" wrote ...
Nil wrote:

so I only used one surround. Now the other speaker needs
it, but I find the bottle of adhesive has dried up.

Posted seperately, so as to not be (as) mean (as required
to emphasize the issue):

Never, ever, ever, never, operate on a single speaker driver
of a pair. And, if you get yerself a single speaker and
intend to make it into a pair, you've got some cypherin'
to do. Less so, or more so, depends. And save the discarded
pieces for other folks trying to do the same.

Yeah, I know, it sounds like BS, but speakers vary a lot,
and matching isn't Rocket Surgery, so some minimal efforts
do actually pay off.

EXCELLENT ADVICE

Listen to the man.

This tale of woe is just ONE of the many issues you can
avoid by doing everything in balanced pairs.

[Nil]

On 04 May 2008, Chris Hornbeck wrote
in rec.audio.pro:

Rubber cement is almost never good for both surfaces. Elmers
white works in many old-fashioned speaker drivers with
paper cones, foam replacement surrounds, painted steel frames,
and little expected life expectancy. The usual case... But:

I've continued to check around since I posted this question, and there
seems to be no real consensus. A favorite is called something like
"Flex 400" (not the real name, but I'm away from my notes). It doesn't
seem to be available anywhere retail, just in bulk from the
manufacturer. Some people seems to have had some success with plain ol'
Elmer's, but other people say it's the right category of adhesive, but
it's too stiff and brittle and there are other more flexible flavors.

I find several references to a glue called Weldbond Universal Space Age
Adhesive. It's supposedly similar to Elmer's White Glue and Wood Glue.
My local Ace Hardware carries it, so if nobody here warns me away from
it, I may pick up a bottle of the stuff this week.

My strongest recommendation is to get a new bottle of the
original, but if you've ruled that out, you're into the
brave new world of chemical experimentation.

I emailed the small company I bought the repair kit from yesterday, but
I haven't heard back from them yet. He might not even be in operation
any more,

Just stay away from the brown acid and you'll be fine.

Good advice!

[Nil]

On 04 May 2008, Chris Hornbeck wrote
in rec.audio.pro:

Never, ever, ever, never, operate on a single speaker driver
of a pair.

I hear ya. The speakers are both in operation now (although one's
surround is half gone) but the system will be offline as soon as I
disconnect the driver.

[[email protected]]

On May 4, 1:45*pm, Nil wrote:
I guess this isn't quite on-topic for this group, but I figure many
people here have some experience with this...

A few years ago I bought a repair kit to replace the deteriorating foam
surrounds on my 10" JBL stereo speakers. At the time only one surround
needed doing, so I only used one surround. Now the other speaker needs
it, but I find the bottle of adhesive has dried up.

What kind of glue would you recommend for this? Rubber cement? White
(Elmers) glue? Contact cement? Other?

What actually worked pretty good is the tire glue used to glue a
"sewup" tire of a racing bicycle to the rim of the bike wheel. You can
get it from your local bike shop. I had a speaker that needed repair
in a pinch and I actually made a surround from a bicycle innertube and
used tire glue to put it on. It held up for years.

[Carey Carlan]

Nil wrote in
:

I guess this isn't quite on-topic for this group, but I figure many
people here have some experience with this...

A few years ago I bought a repair kit to replace the deteriorating foam
surrounds on my 10" JBL stereo speakers. At the time only one surround
needed doing, so I only used one surround. Now the other speaker needs
it, but I find the bottle of adhesive has dried up.

What kind of glue would you recommend for this? Rubber cement? White
(Elmers) glue? Contact cement? Other?

The kit I bought (and used) a couple of years ago came with simple PVA glue
(polyvinyl acetate). Did the job well and the speakers are still in
service.

[Nil]

On 05 May 2008, Carey Carlan wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

The kit I bought (and used) a couple of years ago came with simple
PVA glue (polyvinyl acetate). Did the job well and the speakers
are still in service.

As I recall, the stuff that came with came with my kit was clear-to-
slightly-amber and slightly watery. Reminded me of thin contact cement.
It seemed like it had the right amount of tack so that the surround
stuck to the come right away, but didn't set up completely for a while.
That was an advantage, because I found that the coil was binding, and I
had to peel the surround off and re-glue it. I hope I'll do it better
the first time, but I'd be sorry if the glue dried right away so I
couldn't gracefully recover from a mistake.

So, I don't think what I had was PVA glue, but it sounds like that is
some people's choice and it works well. It's easy to get, so I'll
probably go for that.

[Arny Krueger]

"Nil" wrote in
message

I guess this isn't quite on-topic for this group, but I
figure many people here have some experience with this...

A few years ago I bought a repair kit to replace the
deteriorating foam surrounds on my 10" JBL stereo
speakers. At the time only one surround needed doing, so
I only used one surround. Now the other speaker needs it,
but I find the bottle of adhesive has dried up.

The traditional speaker cone glue is PVA, which is very similar to White
Elmer's glue.

What kind of glue would you recommend for this? Rubber
cement?

No.

White (Elmers) glue?

Yes.

Contact cement?

No!

You want something that lets you move parts around before there is a tight
bond.

[Scott Dorsey]

Nil wrote:
On 04 May 2008, Chris Hornbeck wrote
in rec.audio.pro:

Rubber cement is almost never good for both surfaces. Elmers
white works in many old-fashioned speaker drivers with
paper cones, foam replacement surrounds, painted steel frames,
and little expected life expectancy. The usual case... But:

I've continued to check around since I posted this question, and there
seems to be no real consensus. A favorite is called something like
"Flex 400" (not the real name, but I'm away from my notes). It doesn't
seem to be available anywhere retail, just in bulk from the
manufacturer. Some people seems to have had some success with plain ol'
Elmer's, but other people say it's the right category of adhesive, but
it's too stiff and brittle and there are other more flexible flavors.

Flex 400 is pretty good. It's a high grade contact cement.

I find several references to a glue called Weldbond Universal Space Age
Adhesive. It's supposedly similar to Elmer's White Glue and Wood Glue.
My local Ace Hardware carries it, so if nobody here warns me away from
it, I may pick up a bottle of the stuff this week.

That's also a high grade contact cement. Another good one, and the one
I tend to use, is the 3M weatherstripping adhesive from your local auto
parts store.

Any of these will be fine; it just has to stick and not break down under
heavy vibration.

My strongest recommendation is to get a new bottle of the
original, but if you've ruled that out, you're into the
brave new world of chemical experimentation.

I emailed the small company I bought the repair kit from yesterday, but
I haven't heard back from them yet. He might not even be in operation
any more,

Parts Express should sell the same kit, and they will also sell the
adhesives seperately. But I see no reason not to use contact cement.

DO be aware that the two speakers will sound different if you replaced the
surrounds at different times, and it could take a while for both surrounds
to get to the same stiffness. It turns out that the stiffness of the
surround is NOT all that important in determining the driver Fs, certainly
not as important as common wisdom would have you think. But although the
spider has a lot more to do with it, the surround stiffness does affect the
driver response a little bit. Consequently it's better to do these things
in pairs if possible. I know sometimes with a flown array or something it's
not so convenient to get to the speakers....
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[GregS[_3_]]

In article , (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Nil wrote:
On 04 May 2008, Chris Hornbeck wrote
in rec.audio.pro:

Rubber cement is almost never good for both surfaces. Elmers
white works in many old-fashioned speaker drivers with
paper cones, foam replacement surrounds, painted steel frames,
and little expected life expectancy. The usual case... But:

I've continued to check around since I posted this question, and there
seems to be no real consensus. A favorite is called something like
"Flex 400" (not the real name, but I'm away from my notes). It doesn't
seem to be available anywhere retail, just in bulk from the
manufacturer. Some people seems to have had some success with plain ol'
Elmer's, but other people say it's the right category of adhesive, but
it's too stiff and brittle and there are other more flexible flavors.

Flex 400 is pretty good. It's a high grade contact cement.

I find several references to a glue called Weldbond Universal Space Age
Adhesive. It's supposedly similar to Elmer's White Glue and Wood Glue.
My local Ace Hardware carries it, so if nobody here warns me away from
it, I may pick up a bottle of the stuff this week.

That's also a high grade contact cement. Another good one, and the one
I tend to use, is the 3M weatherstripping adhesive from your local auto
parts store.

Any of these will be fine; it just has to stick and not break down under
heavy vibration.

My strongest recommendation is to get a new bottle of the
original, but if you've ruled that out, you're into the
brave new world of chemical experimentation.

I emailed the small company I bought the repair kit from yesterday, but
I haven't heard back from them yet. He might not even be in operation
any more,

Parts Express should sell the same kit, and they will also sell the
adhesives seperately. But I see no reason not to use contact cement.

DO be aware that the two speakers will sound different if you replaced the
surrounds at different times, and it could take a while for both surrounds
to get to the same stiffness. It turns out that the stiffness of the
surround is NOT all that important in determining the driver Fs, certainly
not as important as common wisdom would have you think. But although the
spider has a lot more to do with it, the surround stiffness does affect the
driver response a little bit. Consequently it's better to do these things
in pairs if possible. I know sometimes with a flown array or something it's
not so convenient to get to the speakers....
--scott

I imagine parts Express has the right glue for the fix. Airflex 400 is the flexible type
of polymer and Elmers is another type of polymer.

greg

[The Speaker Exchange]

any kind of contact glue will work. you can find it at any hardware store. if you have trouble finding it, let me know, we have 1 ounce bottles.

Originally Posted by Nil

I guess this isn't quite on-topic for this group, but I figure many
people here have some experience with this...

A few years ago I bought a repair kit to replace the deteriorating foam
surrounds on my 10" JBL stereo speakers. At the time only one surround
needed doing, so I only used one surround. Now the other speaker needs
it, but I find the bottle of adhesive has dried up.

What kind of glue would you recommend for this? Rubber cement? White
(Elmers) glue? Contact cement? Other?

[Nil]

On 05 May 2008, The Speaker Exchange
wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

any kind of contact glue will work. you can find it at any
hardware store. if you have trouble finding it, let me know, we
have 1 ounce bottles.

I'm probably starting to obsess about this, but I'm still curious why
there's a difference in opinion on whether to use PVA glue or contact-
type cement. I see commercial kits sold with either.

[Carey Carlan]

Nil wrote in
:

On 05 May 2008, The Speaker Exchange
wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

any kind of contact glue will work. you can find it at any
hardware store. if you have trouble finding it, let me know, we
have 1 ounce bottles.

I'm probably starting to obsess about this, but I'm still curious why
there's a difference in opinion on whether to use PVA glue or contact-
type cement. I see commercial kits sold with either.

I've only replaced the surround on one set of speakers, but I know it would
have been practically impossible to position the surround correctly with a
contact cement. I absolutely needed the chance to adjust before it dried.

[Frank Vuotto]

I'm probably starting to obsess about this, but I'm still curious why
there's a difference in opinion on whether to use PVA glue or contact-
type cement. I see commercial kits sold with either.

Every kit I've ever bought has come with that white/water soluble
contact cement, I forget who makes it, maybe elmers, you can get a
half pint at the hardware store. It works on most cones and dust
covers.

Frank /~ http://newmex.com/f10
@/

[jakdedert]

Nil wrote:
On 04 May 2008, Chris Hornbeck wrote
in rec.audio.pro:

Never, ever, ever, never, operate on a single speaker driver
of a pair.

I hear ya. The speakers are both in operation now (although one's
surround is half gone) but the system will be offline as soon as I
disconnect the driver.

Along with the excellent advice about never operating on a single piece
of a pair; I'd add, NEVER OPERATE A DRIVER WITH A DEFECTIVE SURROUND!

You're just asking for trouble. One overexcursion of the the voice coil
and you're looking at a complete recone, for BOTH drivers, since--as
detailed previously--you NEVER operate on just one of a pair.

jak