[Mike Rivers]

I rarely shop for audio gear or accessories on line. I have a good
dealer and generally I just call him up, tell him what I need, and he
gives me an acceptable price and impeccable service.

I've been thinking about buying a Korg MR-1000 recorder so I thought
I'd prepare myself for the shock of asking him for one by checking
prices on line. The half dozen usual suspects (and I didn't find any
other suspects) were all selling it for exactly the same price -
$1199, the only difference being what kind of free shipping they
offered.

Coincidence? Or is this the way things are these days?

[D C[_2_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:

I rarely shop for audio gear or accessories on line. I have a good
dealer and generally I just call him up, tell him what I need, and he
gives me an acceptable price and impeccable service.

I've been thinking about buying a Korg MR-1000 recorder so I thought
I'd prepare myself for the shock of asking him for one by checking
prices on line. The half dozen usual suspects (and I didn't find any
other suspects) were all selling it for exactly the same price -
$1199, the only difference being what kind of free shipping they
offered.

Coincidence? Or is this the way things are these days?


That's probably the minimum advertised price. On the phone or in an
email or in person, they might go lower.

[H. Schaap]

"Mike Rivers" schreef in bericht
...

I've been thinking about buying a Korg MR-1000 recorder so I thought
I'd prepare myself for the shock of asking him for one by checking
prices on line. The half dozen usual suspects (and I didn't find any
other suspects) were all selling it for exactly the same price -
$1199, the only difference being what kind of free shipping they
offered.

Coincidence? Or is this the way things are these days?

Some manufacturers or distributors insist that all dealers in a
country sell for the same price. Don't know if that applies to Korg.
Sometimes you can get a discount if you phone them(dealers) direct.
Tip: recently there were some SH MR-1000 in the classified section
of Gearslutz about $750 in the US.
It is a very good recorder, I use it very often.

Henk

[david gourley]

Mike Rivers put forth the notion in...news:0998fe20-
:

I rarely shop for audio gear or accessories on line. I have a good
dealer and generally I just call him up, tell him what I need, and he
gives me an acceptable price and impeccable service.

I've been thinking about buying a Korg MR-1000 recorder so I thought
I'd prepare myself for the shock of asking him for one by checking
prices on line. The half dozen usual suspects (and I didn't find any
other suspects) were all selling it for exactly the same price -
$1199, the only difference being what kind of free shipping they
offered.

Coincidence? Or is this the way things are these days?

Funny, I see that at 'box' stores claiming their 'low price guarantee.'
How can you beat a lowest price when they're all the same?

david

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 24, 12:10 pm, david gourley
wrote:

Funny, I see that at 'box' stores claiming their 'low price guarantee.'
How can you beat a lowest price when they're all the same?

It's a trick, of course. Mattress stores offer the same guarantee, but
they have cooperation from the manufacturers to play the game in a
different way. The manufacturer puts different model names on the same
mattress to sell to different chains. That way you can't find another
shop that sells the same (name) mattress you're looking at, so you
can't compare prices.

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
I rarely shop for audio gear or accessories on line. I have a good
dealer and generally I just call him up, tell him what I need, and he
gives me an acceptable price and impeccable service.

I've been thinking about buying a Korg MR-1000 recorder so I thought
I'd prepare myself for the shock of asking him for one by checking
prices on line. The half dozen usual suspects (and I didn't find any
other suspects) were all selling it for exactly the same price -
$1199, the only difference being what kind of free shipping they
offered.

Coincidence? Or is this the way things are these days?

MAP , minimum advertized price, a common addendum to any dealer agreement
actual selling price to be determined by one on one contact with the vendor
george

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On Mar 24, 12:10 pm, david gourley
wrote:

Funny, I see that at 'box' stores claiming their 'low price guarantee.'
How can you beat a lowest price when they're all the same?

It's a trick, of course. Mattress stores offer the same guarantee, but
they have cooperation from the manufacturers to play the game in a
different way. The manufacturer puts different model names on the same
mattress to sell to different chains. That way you can't find another
shop that sells the same (name) mattress you're looking at, so you
can't compare prices.

when I sold home hi-fi in the early 80's our store sold the black facd
Technics, no other store in any one territory was given this line
it was exactly the sam except for the finish and the "B" suffix
but it made direct apples to apples price wars impossible
george

[Richard Crowley]

"D C" wrote ...
Mike Rivers wrote:
I rarely shop for audio gear or accessories on line. I have a good
dealer and generally I just call him up, tell him what I need, and he
gives me an acceptable price and impeccable service.

I've been thinking about buying a Korg MR-1000 recorder so I thought
I'd prepare myself for the shock of asking him for one by checking
prices on line. The half dozen usual suspects (and I didn't find any
other suspects) were all selling it for exactly the same price -
$1199, the only difference being what kind of free shipping they
offered.

Coincidence? Or is this the way things are these days?


That's probably the minimum advertised price. On the phone or in an email
or in person, they might go lower.

I was looking up something (microphone?) a few days ago
at B&H where they said the the posted price was the MAP,
but to email them for the selling price (which I did and was
several hundred $$$ less).

I see that for the MR-1000 they send you a $150 B&H
gift card which amounts to $150 less than the MAP.

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers wrote:

I've been thinking about buying a Korg MR-1000 recorder so I thought
I'd prepare myself for the shock of asking him for one by checking
prices on line. The half dozen usual suspects (and I didn't find any
other suspects) were all selling it for exactly the same price -
$1199, the only difference being what kind of free shipping they
offered.

If I were about to buy one of those I would get ahold of Jerry Delgado
at EAR in Phoenix AZ.



(I've no commercial affiliation, but I have been buying from him for a
few years. He has been more than competitive on both pricing and
service.)

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message

I rarely shop for audio gear or accessories on line. I
have a good dealer and generally I just call him up, tell
him what I need, and he gives me an acceptable price and
impeccable service.

I've been thinking about buying a Korg MR-1000 recorder
so I thought I'd prepare myself for the shock of asking
him for one by checking prices on line. The half dozen
usual suspects (and I didn't find any other suspects)
were all selling it for exactly the same price - $1199,
the only difference being what kind of free shipping they
offered.

Coincidence? Or is this the way things are these days?

Apparently, MAP pricing (Minimum Advertised Price) is legal. However,
nothing seems to stop dealers from actually selling for less. How much less,
I don't know.

I've gotten some seemingly incredible deals by merely calling a web source
up on the phone and simply asking for the current price - no negotiation
required.

I'm under the impression that some dealers fudge MAP pricing by offering
products on eBay using other names than their usual trade name.

At the $1,000 price point, it seems like calling around would be a
worthwhile approach.

[Geoff]

Mike Rivers wrote:
I rarely shop for audio gear or accessories on line. I have a good
dealer and generally I just call him up, tell him what I need, and he
gives me an acceptable price and impeccable service.

I've been thinking about buying a Korg MR-1000 recorder so I thought
I'd prepare myself for the shock of asking him for one by checking
prices on line. The half dozen usual suspects (and I didn't find any
other suspects) were all selling it for exactly the same price -
$1199, the only difference being what kind of free shipping they
offered.

Coincidence? Or is this the way things are these days?

Um, I think you'll find that 'price fixing' is a significantly different
thing to this situtaion.

geoff

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 08:26:53 -0700 (PDT), Mike Rivers
wrote:

I rarely shop for audio gear or accessories on line. I have a good
dealer and generally I just call him up, tell him what I need, and he
gives me an acceptable price and impeccable service.

I've been thinking about buying a Korg MR-1000 recorder so I thought
I'd prepare myself for the shock of asking him for one by checking
prices on line. The half dozen usual suspects (and I didn't find any
other suspects) were all selling it for exactly the same price -
$1199, the only difference being what kind of free shipping they
offered.

Coincidence? Or is this the way things are these days?

MAP is a mid-way step between completely whoring a product
out, ensuring that your local dealer, with a storefront
and personal service, etc. cannot carry it and compete,
and real protection for the local dealers.

All manufacturers and importers follow an arc, beginning
with building a dealer network, and ending with undercutting
that network when volume allows it. In the internet age this
arc is getting shorter and shorter, but it's always been there.

Much thanks, as always,

Chris Hornbeck
"It's for compatibility with 8-Track."
--scott

[D C[_2_]]

Chris Hornbeck wrote:

MAP is a mid-way step between completely whoring a product
out, ensuring that your local dealer, with a storefront
and personal service, etc. cannot carry it and compete,
and real protection for the local dealers.

All manufacturers and importers follow an arc, beginning
with building a dealer network, and ending with undercutting
that network when volume allows it. In the internet age this
arc is getting shorter and shorter, but it's always been there.

When I sold pro audio equipment, which I did from 1985 to 2002, I wished
that there would be a certain amount of guaranteed profit. I got out of
it because of the whoring.

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:48:29 -0400, D C wrote:

MAP is a mid-way step between completely whoring a product
out, ensuring that your local dealer, with a storefront
and personal service, etc. cannot carry it and compete,
and real protection for the local dealers.

All manufacturers and importers follow an arc, beginning
with building a dealer network, and ending with undercutting
that network when volume allows it. In the internet age this
arc is getting shorter and shorter, but it's always been there.

When I sold pro audio equipment, which I did from 1985 to 2002, I wished
that there would be a certain amount of guaranteed profit. I got out of
it because of the whoring.

Retail is a delicate balancing act. From the manufacturer's
POV, only the income stream over the life of the brand/model
matters.

From the purchaser's POV, only the initial price matters,
until some tiny thing makes the purchase something other
than a commodity, and then all of the things other than the
initial price suddenly matter a lot more.

Retail is the dark nether regions in between. Those who try
to live there, and I've been associated with retail, local,
biz all my adult life, must constantly adapt.



At some point, retail will no longer be needed, and all sales
will be of commodities, zero-margin'ed on the Internet.

Remaining work will be in the blue-collar trades: plumbing,
electrical, roofing, landscaping, burgers, education, all the
various kinds of prostitution, web-site construction, and
figuring out why **** don't work right.

Blue-collar to the end,

Chris Hornbeck
"It's for compatibility with 8-Track."
--scott

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:18:40 GMT, Chris Hornbeck
wrote:

Remaining work will be in the blue-collar trades:

I forgot to mention the growth industries: soldier and
......

Wait, there's got to be another one...

Chris Hornbeck

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:32:54 GMT, Chris Hornbeck
wrote:

Wait, there's got to be another one...

Oh, right. Prisoner.

Chris Hornbeck

[Paul Stamler]

"Chris Hornbeck" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:18:40 GMT, Chris Hornbeck
wrote:

Remaining work will be in the blue-collar trades:

I forgot to mention the growth industries: soldier and
.....

Wait, there's got to be another one...

Prison guard.

Peace,
Paul

[Raw-Tracks]

Mike Rivers wrote:
I rarely shop for audio gear or accessories on line. I have a good
dealer and generally I just call him up, tell him what I need, and he
gives me an acceptable price and impeccable service.

I've been thinking about buying a Korg MR-1000 recorder so I thought
I'd prepare myself for the shock of asking him for one by checking
prices on line. The half dozen usual suspects (and I didn't find any
other suspects) were all selling it for exactly the same price -
$1199, the only difference being what kind of free shipping they
offered.

Coincidence? Or is this the way things are these days?

Mike, I'm surprised that you're not familiar with the MAP (minimum
advertised price) concept. It's been around for years. Most
manufacturers have MAP as part of their dealer agreement. The policy
generally states that a dealer cannot advertise in print or on the web
at a price lower than the MAP price.

In Korg's case, unless it's changed in the last five years, MAP applies
to price quotes over the phone as well. The only way that Korg allows a
dealer to quote below MAP is if the dealer has the customer in front of
him, in person, in the store.

MAP is not the same as price fixing. Price fixing is generally defined
as collusion between competing sellers where they agree to sell at a
fixed price.

Additionally, some manufacturers have a unilateral pricing policy. That
is where the manufacturer states that all dealers must sell at a certain
price, or above. This practice was questionable up until about a year
ago when the US Supreme Court ruled that these policies were acceptable.
Companies like Sound Devices, Lectrosonics and Shoeps enforce these
policies on at least some of their products.

--
Eric

Practice Your Mixing Skills
Download Our Multi-Track Masters
www.Raw-Tracks.com
www.Mad-Host.com

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 26, 6:18 am, Raw-Tracks wrote:

Mike, I'm surprised that you're not familiar with the MAP (minimum
advertised price) concept. It's been around for years.

I'm familiar with the term, but I never really understood what it
means. I don't buy or shop very much. I have too much junk already.

Most
manufacturers have MAP as part of their dealer agreement. The policy
generally states that a dealer cannot advertise in print or on the web
at a price lower than the MAP price.

While this doesn't actually state that he can't sell it for less
(price fixing) in essence it has the same effect, meaning that you
can't shop for price based on advertising, but have to make calls or
get formal price quotes. And places that state that they'll match or
beat any advertised price have no obligation to do anything other than
meet their own advertised price, which is the same as everyone
else's.

It didn't really matter much before on-line shopping opened us up to a
world of options for purchase. Used to be that there were only one or
two local shops that sold what I wanted and I shopped at my favorite.
Now, like everyone else, I feel compelled to at least investigate
actual selling price and I can't do that without making phone calls.

In Korg's case, unless it's changed in the last five years, MAP applies
to price quotes over the phone as well. The only way that Korg allows a
dealer to quote below MAP is if the dealer has the customer in front of
him, in person, in the store.

That's even worse. In essence, it makes me commit to a specific dealer
before I can find out how much he'll charge. I can always walk out, of
course, but that means I don't always get what I came for if I suspect
that there's a significantly lower price out there. I won't quibble
about $50 on a $1200 item, but if I can get it for $900, I want to be
able to do that.

Additionally, some manufacturers have a unilateral pricing policy. That
is where the manufacturer states that all dealers must sell at a certain
price, or above. This practice was questionable up until about a year
ago when the US Supreme Court ruled that these policies were acceptable.

Isn't that the same as price-fixing, only that the price is set by the
manufacturer rather than by a coalition of retailers? Somebody's got a
good lawyer.

Frankly, I think that uniform pricing is fair, and that competition
could, and shold, be based on value added service. But we all know
that discounts are available if you ask in the right place and the
right time.

[Geoff]

Mike Rivers wrote:

While this doesn't actually state that he can't sell it for less
(price fixing) in essence it has the same effect,

I thought 'price fixing' was when different manufacturers collude to keep
the price of a genre of item artificially high. Not a single manufacturer's
pricing conditions with his dealers.

geoff

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 26, 5:20 pm, "geoff" wrote:

I thought 'price fixing' was when different manufacturers collude to keep
the price of a genre of item artificially high. Not a single manufacturer's
pricing conditions with his dealers.

I'm sure there's an official definition, and I apologize for starting
this long thread about semantics if I used the wrong term.

It's still annoying that we have the world at our fingertips and we
can't find the best price without at least making a phone call or
maybe going to the dealer's shop (if he even has one)

[Carey Carlan]

Mike Rivers wrote in
:

It's still annoying that we have the world at our fingertips and we
can't find the best price without at least making a phone call or
maybe going to the dealer's shop (if he even has one)

The good news is that you have a long list of resellers at your fingertips.
You know it and they know it, so no one can push prices too high.